FWiater
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Posts posted by FWiater
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Just a FYI to anyone who has Mizuno clubs on order. They were hacked with ransomware, and there may be a slight delay in your order because of all the computers being down. They are still building clubs and special orders.
Mizuno Hacked -
On 2/3/2022 at 10:54 AM, Golfspy_CG2 said:
Yeah, I'm looking forward tto that as well, and to be honest I was able to get down to two layers at one point
But still nothing I could do about the creaky old body that has been on the shelf for two months, although I have started a bit of a winter swinging program.
Clubs look great. Might be time to change up that signature?
Can't wait to get my 225's and T-22's when they ship.
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14 Way bag for me, I have used 6 way but clubs move around too much. They start leaning every which way become tangled up in the bag.
Also having jumbo grips the 14 with full length dividers let the clubs in and out much easier. neat appearance and easy to put back in the exact same spot each time.
Professional caddies have all day to pull clubs, they never have to play shots. They don't pick the bag either, the MFG., gives them tour bags to use.
They have to carry lots of extra stuff as there is no cart to set it in. More and larger pockets are needed, with extra towels etc. It's their only task on the course. -
I spent about 18 hours hitting all of these new Mizuno models over 4 days. I have to say they are all very good. Coming off MP20-MMC's and Ping I210 sets last year, personally I like these better. Mizuno did seem to hype the 223 as having the most improvements, but they were actually quite similar in performance to my MP20-MMC's. The 221's are gorgeous but once you get past the 7 they are for elite ball strikers, and not my cup of tea. Getting to old these days to deliver the club consistently on the center face. I did a lot of back and forth between the 223 and 225. The 223 seemed a bit more forgiving than my MP20-MMC, distance control was similar, and they were a couple yards longer than my MMC's. But R to L dispersion was slightly better due to the added forgiveness. I loved the feel of the 225 on center strikes the best, probably the best feeling iron I have ever hit that I would actually play. Lofts on the 225 are a bit strong, but the launch angles are very similar to the 223 in actuality. Offset is identical to the 223 cavity backs. Spin is a bit less 350- 500 rpm on average (because of the stronger lofts), but far from anemic, and very playable, with good decent angles and enough spin to hold all but the most unforgiving greens. Could always bend these 1 degree weak if I determine more spin or a higher launch is needed, but prefer to check gaping before doing that. Even changing balls could bridge that difference.
I considered splitting a set of 223 at the bottom, with 225 at the top. But further testing showed my dispersion was actually tighter with the 225's even in the PW. The mishits were slightly more forgiving on distance, and they were about 5 to 8 yards longer per club than the 223's. But surprisingly distance control was very good when playing shots out of the middle of the face. I ended up ordering a full set of the 225's (4-gw) because of the feel and consistency. The 3 iron was about where you could start to see a bit of the sole at address, sticking out behind the topline. Even though I really thought I would go for the 223's, the 225's were what I eventually ordered. Always keep an open mind when doing a fitting, the numbers don't lie. The 225's were very workable, I could flight shots, and still work it both ways. They reduced the size considerably from the HMB which looked big to me at address. And I like the idea of putting a muscle back in the bag as it's been a long time since I had that in there. Added some new T-22 wedges (copper plated) to fill out the bottom of the 14 way tour stand bag, also on order. Now the waiting begins.- chisag, sosuHands and Golfspy_CG2
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Can't wait till my Pro gets in the demo sets, dying to hit these.
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1 hour ago, ChitownM2 said:
I think you'd be quite surprised on what the margins are on cars. Percentage wise it is substantially lower than golf equipment. Plus why should the rules be different for a $50k car vs. a $23k civic? You're ok with paying for test drives on a used Ford Taurus?
And so where is your threshold for a free fitting? A new bag of clubs costs $3k if you're buying average priced stuff (not the new i59 irons) and you stick with only no-upcharge shafts. The costs only go up from there.
Yeah, give them their money back if they buy that Taurus lol. We are talking NEW, not used. And i know guys at dealerships, theres a lot more to be made selling a new car than new clubs. What percentage of buys buys a full set plus a bag at the same time? I'm sure they could work a discount.
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21 minutes ago, ChitownM2 said:
A lot of the comments in this thread are analyzing this from the perspective of how a fitter makes his money now and saying that this couldn't work. I'm not saying it definitely would work, but Adam is basically talking about a fundamental shift in the way retail golf operations work. No one is proposing that fitters would be working for free or wouldn't be compensated for their time. They would all get paid and it would have to be a wage that is competitive with what their skill set dictates.
To get the proper context of the type of fundamental change he is talking about you need to stop assuming that the fitter is making money the same we he is currently. This would be a huge shift.
Since I made the car analogy before, I'll stick with it. Imagine if the car buying process completely changed from what it is now. Imagine that when you went into a dealer to buy a car you sat down with the salesman and told him the basic parameters of what you were looking for in your next vehicle and he came back and said he had 3 or 4 options that might work for you. He then proceeded to tell you that if you wanted to go sit in the car to see if it was a good fit for you and that you liked it, you had to pay $75. Test drives were $150. I can guarantee that almost everyone would be up in arms about this and say it was total BS, etc. but it's exactly the same thing. Why is it OK to spend 2 hours at the car dealership to figure out if you want the Explorer with the tech package or sport package or if you want Honda instead? Plus when it comes to buying a car I bet even a larger percentage of people get up and walk out to buy it somewhere cheaper compared to buying golf clubs.
The only difference is in the way we interpret each buying scenario and apply what we're already accustomed to the alternative scenario. You have to disassociate the proposal from the way you expect them to be. Why should a fitter be compensated for his time in helping me find the right golf club to buy but other people shouldn't be compensated for their time when helping us find a different product.
Also, for the record, I'm an engineer so I don't have any tears to shed for car dealers or salesman, they're just an easy example. I'm a huge car guy and I loathe the experience of visiting a dealer and I've found that most car salesman are about as knowledgeable as the guys working the "free" fitting bays at PGASS.
"Using the car analogy", If I ever buy a $50,000 set of clubs, they should fit me for free. But there is far less margin on a set of clubs than a new car.
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7 minutes ago, ChitownM2 said:
Your first point isn't unique to the golf industry at all. That's everything in today's world. Clothes, TVs, toys, whatever. That's a separate problem that the entire country is going to have to solve at some point or else we'll all be buying everything site un-seen and waiting a week for it to arrive from some warehouse halfway across the country. Hell, it's already starting to happen with food. I have several friends telling my wife and I about how great grocery delivery is.
On your latter point, that was addressed in the video and MGS is expanding true golf fit to include irons and balls and it will be free next year.
That's great in hindsight, but I already paid to use it two years in a row, lol. I'm not complaining mind you, it was pretty accurate tool. But I don't see that penny lynching mindset changing anytime soon at brick and mortar stores. It started when Mom and Pop businesses were replaced by corporations. Too many people feel no remorse in ripping off corporations, regardless of the outcome. I personally always want to hit something and get fitted before buying. If there were no stores, and no competent fitters near me, then I'm done buying. Are people really that reluctant to invest their own money on self improvement, that they want free fittings, free education these days?
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I've seen this from both ends. And there are far too many people, especially newbies, who would go into a brick and mortar store and get a free fitting. Leave, and buy nothing, go online looking for the cheapest price for the same equipment. Meanwhile the guy who fit them makes nothing, pays for all the inventory, and equipment to fit (a GC4 is over $20,000 alone), and a store to do that in. Then he becomes unable to compete on price with a guy who sells from a warehouse.
I wouldn't hire a guy to paint my house for free, because if he is that cheap, what are you getting? If I pay for a fitting, there should be a guarantee of improvement, dispersion, spin, or distance. If not no charge. If i paid for a fitting and came away with nothing, I'd argue that the job was incomplete. And like many fitters do here in MI, they kick you back a percentage of the fitting fee, if you buy from them. But if they can make improvements I'd gladly pay for that.
If MGS feels that fittings should be free why does https://truegolffit.com/ charge to use their tool online? Why not give it away for free to donors, and let them kick back money if they go out and buy the recommended equipment and it outperforms their current equipment? -
I've tried several grips and even different sized grips because I like to experiment. I haven't found anything I like even close to the GP CP2 wraps. They have the perfect amount of tackiness, they work well in the rain, and they are very comfortable even with my hands having a slight bit of arthritis. My only complaint is the weight of these. The Jumbos are 81 grams and the Mids are 63. My clubs are an inch longer than standard because on my height, but grips this heavy can easily take your swingweight back considerably. By adding 4g of grip weight, the swingweight of a club is decreased by one swingweight point, and by increasing the length of the golf shaft by one-half inch, the swingweight will be increased by three swingweight points. So my clubs go up 6 points for length, but because I have grips that weigh 81 gr vs say a Winn Dri-Tac WRAP Oversize Grip that weighs 50 gr, I loose (31 grams additional grip weight) almost 8 swing weight points back, or 2 total.
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Rumor mill has it a certain organization we all know and love might be getting one of these for testing very soon?
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Latest teaser for GC3, supposedly European version of the launch Pro
- Thin2win, JohnSmalls, DriverBreaker and 3 others
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On 9/13/2021 at 9:26 PM, Thin2win said:
Well, now that I live in a snowy area I'll be getting a PLM this year. This is sitting at the top of my wishlist at the moment. But lots will come down to pricing.
Has anyone looked much into the difference been this and the also upcoming FullSwing Kit (with Tiger support)? That is on preorder for $3999
Fullswing Kit has been taking pre orders since December. Not much info has been released, except that it was to be released this month and looks like that will not happen.
Radar based with 15 data points with a HD camera for recording your swing. Looks like a nice unit but the lack of information about it is obscene.- Measure2x, JohnSmalls and Thin2win
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13 hours ago, PeterHenric said:
That's a good catch on getting the Google Cache of the page.
According to the page, these are the metrics you don't get for the club:
Loft/Lie
Face Angle
Impact Location
Closure RateCorrect, that would be the "4 dot" club data the Quad uses.
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I believe the launch pro will be the GC3 in Europe. Here's some specs, including
https://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache%3AqIa2B96vYtIJ%3Ahttps%3A%2F%2Flp.foresightsports.ca%2Fgc3%2F &cd=10&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=us&fbclid=IwAR3iUODc_Z_vA1AUN2xtLRqkfgq2AQB0QtsYv8EMKyDwlEqHG5tqgGAlBxE
- Thin2win and JohnSmalls
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I played the Modus 105 for two years, it was a great shaft. But at 64 I'm in the same boat as you with joint pain. I have access to a fitting room and tried several shafts, in the same two heads. I hit thousands of shots spread out over several weeks, recording each session for comparison at the end. Noting swing speed, smash, spin, launch angle, peak height, and most importantly to me, dispersion, both side to side, and front to back, and feel because I wanted a softer feeling smash. I kept going back to the UST Recoil 460 ESX in F3. The distance control with these was second to none.
The shaft performed the best of the graphite's I tested for both dispersion and feel. It was ultra consistent week to week. And it tested better than any of the steel shafts I tried including the Modus 105. The only drawback was a higher launch. I ended up having the heads bent 1 deg strong to get the launch back down and that solved it for me.
I typically swing a 7 iron about 82-83 mph and found the Recoils felt about a half step stiffer than they were listed. The F3 felt great, but the F4 was slightly too stiff for my swing speed. The torque is 4.7 but feels much less when hitting them. And even at 65 grams the shafts are weighted with a lower balance point to help replace steels without having to resort to drastic measures to achieve the same swing weight as before. Never regret the change and love my clubs even more now. Hope this helps. -
Looks like the rumored 3 cam system might be true?
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9 hours ago, e_phat said:
Thanks Fwiater, that translator works great. Looks to be Taylormade P770 competitor. Curios on these compared to the Blueprints.
I think Google translate might be a bit racist, "Rye angle" IDK?
I concur it looks like a 770 competitor though. I believe the Blueprints have a smaller footprint.
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30 minutes ago, ChitownM2 said:
I can't see Bushnell releasing a consumer product in that price range. Bushnell is a brand that sells in volume and is stocked in retail stores. At $3-6k this would be strictly a niche product for the most hardcore golf junkies or instructors who don't want to pay for a trackman or gc quad. Even the mevo+ is way too expensive for the average golfer.
The only club data it mentions is head speed so my guess is this will be priced competitively with a skytrak or mevo+. That gives foresight a chance to get in the the PLM market without infringing on their main pro/semi-pro equipment.
Bushnell has no problems releasing a $550 range finder. And this LM is a heck of lot more complicated than those. I also don't see Foresight sports putting their name and more importantly reputation on a $500 LM. If they want to claim "tour level accuracy" it's not going to come in under $3000 and hold true to that claim. Foresight sports knows that just like when big screen TV's first came out and they were tens of thousands of dollars, mass production, and consumer use can drives those costs to a fraction of what a GC quad sells for now, and they need to be prepared to deal with that. It's just my opinion, so take it with a grain of salt. But history tends to repeat itself. The days of super high priced LM's are numbered, and there will always be room at the top end, the middle, and the low end depending on everyone's needs. How much data they need, and the accuracy level. Speed costs money, how fast do you want to go?
- GregGarner, JohnSmalls and cnosil
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I believe he I59 are the direct replacement for the Iblade , with a I210 replacement coming at the PGA show this winter.
Mizuno Pro 221/223/225
in Golf Clubs
Posted
After several days of rigorous testing, and fitting, trying out several shafts, heads, and combinations thereof. We used the Mizuno swing analyzer that did a pretty good job on some starting recommendations to start with. Then used a GC Quad to dial in the numbers to my best fit. My last irons were Mp20 -mmc so I assumed I'd probably go for the 223's this year. But the numbers don't lie and I got the best dispersion, with the 225's overall. After I was finally dialed in, I ordered a set of 225's and T-22 copper wedges back in January. We called to make sure they could make them to my desired swing weights of D2 in the irons and D4 in the wedges. Having large hands I use CP2 wrap jumbo grips that weigh 80 grams. The clubs are plus 1" with Recoil ESX shafts in the irons, and KBS High rev 2.0 in the wedges. Mizuno said they would have no problem building them to my specs as the had several heads that were on the heavy side, and achieving my desired swing weights would be no problem. I reminded them that they missed the swing weight on my MP20-MMC's last year, and if they needed to charge more to swing weight them I'd pay, but I wanted them right this time, not half assed.
About 3 weeks ago they came in. The irons were at C6-C7, and the wedges at D1-D1.5. These clubs were never checked, 5 lofts and 5 lies were off as well. For a company that prides itself on quality, this is un-acceptable. Mizuno offered to rebuild the set, but honestly my confidence was not big on them getting them right, or on it not taking several months to turn them around only to possibly get them back wrong again.
I then contacted Jim @McGolf custom (http://www.mcgolf.net/) about rebuilding my clubs. He said he could do them so I sent them to Ohio to be disassembled, swing weighted, and spined. Jim was a complete professional, offering up some great advice on the specs, and the process. And then completing the quality work quickly even though this is a busy time for skilled clubmakers. If I had to do this over again, I would have just ordered a set of heads and had @McGolf do the rest. Mizuno builds some great heads, but their assembly and quality control is not very good right now. I have ordered custom specs from Ping and they always sent my order thru the Works department, they were spot on upon arrival. Thankfully I got a guy who takes pride in his work to fix these for me. Hitting bombs and throwing darts now, these are the best irons I have ever owned. Just need to oil up these old bones and I'm good for another season.