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Eden Torque Balance Sweet spot - a bit technical....


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Hi all,

 

Question on anyone's experience with Edel Torque Balance putters. With some history...

 

Putting has been an issue for me over the last few seasons, I keep stats, and lose about 2.5 stokes gained on the green.

 

Putting lessons and putters have been common, along with a decent amount of drills and practice. It's made a big difference, but I still have frustrating days!!

 

While clutching at straws on you tube, I saw an edel putter fitting that looked comprehensive and well thought through. So after a lot more research I gave it a go.

 

Fitting done, counter banance on grip, 21g heel weight. Single white dot alignment, E-3 arrived.

 

So far so good, but a test I always do on new putters,

1. Check the grip is fitted straight (OEMs miss this so often!!)

2. Find the sweet spot - age old method of tapping the putter head with a pencil to find the location which doesn't twist. Then confirming with some actual putts with some video.

 

What I found was a sweetspot about 12mm heel side of the alignment aid and centre of head.

 

While this isn't really a surprise, given the toe milling and weight in the heel, I was a bit disappointed that this wasn't allowed for in the design. It's the only putter of this style I've tested, so I'm not sure if it's common in other stroke balance/Torque balanced designs? I contacted Edel, but had no reply.

 

I've since removed the heel weight to try and move the CoG back and it's been pretty successful. It's made the putter more forgiving on toe misses ( which were very common with such a heel biased CoG).

 

Has anybody else had issues like this? Particularly with other brands of toe up?

 

Any ideas if the counter Balance in the grip may also effect the sweetspot (given its a dynamic system I'm sure the centre of percussion is somehow effected!?)

 

Any thought on other solutions to move the CoG back to centre?

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Interesting the brick is similarly effected bones, as mentioned taking the weight out has helped me, suppose the issue will depend on the alignment aid, bigger the alignment aid more significantly the issue will be I think. Incidentally I almost instantly changed the big dog grip for an iomic, really just for personal preference, but it did seem to balance the putter out a bit. Big dog is nearly 100grams!!

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I just got an Edel E-2 a few weeks ago and have the best results lining up with the ball a bit closer to the heel, than the center dot, myself.

 

FWIW, I generally line up ALL of my putters a bit closer to the heel than center, and the fitter mentioned that to me during my fitting.

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Titleist 913 D2 10.5* (set to 9.75* / Neutral) 46" Paderson KINETIXX Kevlar Green - R

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Hybrid  :cleveland-small: Hibore 22* Aldila VS Proto Blue

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Wedges :ping-small:Glide 54* SS / 60* TS - SCOR 53*

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Thats probably a strong result for your style wbealsd. 

 

I'm considering going all out and putting a (homemade weight in the toe to make it face balanced, just need to figure out a way to do it without it being permanent!!

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Been eyeing the edel, after having tried the odyssey toe up 2 (the anser style). Interesting on what ur measurement came out to... id have the same concern. I like this putter, and the concept behind it seems to jive w my real life stroke, but wanted a higher quality build w some of the personalized details edel offers... the toe up fails in aesthetics but wins in functionality.

 

Iv modified my toe up by adding about 30g to the head, and about 25g to the grip... tried to split the added head wt evenly and toward the leading edge to minimize altering the toe up quality. The cog (using same method as u essentially... used a nail to balance) is about 1.5mm inside of the center (toward the heel). That is after my weight additions. They advertised it as dead center.

 

What i have noticed is that this head plays very much like an old bullseye in that i notice being off of center by the very slightest of margin... you can feel it. The head resists (slightly) a desire to twist, better than the bullseye though. Couldn't imagine having to strike a putt 12mm off of cog, but then again, my toe up does it's hang by altering the hosel position w regards to the bulk weight of the head... it moves more weight towards the face vs the rear, and places the shaft axis closer to the middle of the head vs the leading edge like most putters. Seems the edel manages the hang by exclusively redistributing head weight towards the heel. All of that to wonder if the extreme heel weight and cog shift won't twist as badly as i would imagine, or would be the case w the odyssey design.

 

Im just pondering out loud. But yes, the odyssey achieves it's toe hang (seemingly) much differently than the edel. I need to try one of those, so my commentary is one sided.

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Thanks for the feedback SubP.

 

I have to say the Edel feels less forgiving than it actually is, if that makes sense!? A toe strike feel hideous, and the club does twist, but the resultant putt is normally pretty acceptable. I'd suggest because of the strange CoG there's a decent amount of gear effect etc that comes to the rescue.

 

It's all hugely subjective, but I have found with soft inset putters that gross mis-hits can feel good but perform terrible? The edel seems to be the opposite...

 

Thinking out loud there's an argument to say that the Edel fitting misses a trick in the fitting by concentrating so much on alignment and pace control, that stroke and it's effect on strike are missed?

 

As I say all very subjective, and I would point out the E-3 is firmly in the bag!

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pretty much sticking to the concept for the foreseeable future myself... feel and aesthetics aside, it strokes so very well. My feel comments were more about feedback than anything else... the head design communicates well.

 

Look at the axis 1, for some different theory on putter design. The idea of matching cog to ball position and stroke line seems solid. That's another putter id like to try, despite the looks resulting from the design. Id love for a balanced head design like the toe up, w customization and finish of the edel, and the incorporation of the axis 1 cog positions... that would be perhaps the ideal putter, in theory, maybe...?

 

But im just happy to have a putter that isn't biased, that requires no compensation to stroke straight back and through again, which the toe up seems to achieve. However, if you get an itch to better design a head along these lines... will prepay to mill a head. My guess is that it is all going to be about getting hosel right, while making it agreeable to the eye. I tried discussing this w one custom putter guy, he wasnt having any of it, so...?

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I'm glad you mentioned checking grip alignment, I just noticed yesterday that the grip on my new Edel putter actually isn't aligned correctly... :(

 

Since the putter I'd been using before the Edel arrived has a standard grip and the Edel has a Fatso (recommended by the fitter), I'd just assumed I wasn't used to the larger grip.

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What's In The Bag

Driver :titelist-small:

Titleist 913 D2 10.5* (set to 9.75* / Neutral) 46" Paderson KINETIXX Kevlar Green - R

Fairway Wood

Tom Wishon 949 MC 16.5* Fujikura Speeder 569-A

Hybrid  :cleveland-small: Hibore 22* Aldila VS Proto Blue

Irons  :ping-small: G series 5-P

Wedges :ping-small:Glide 54* SS / 60* TS - SCOR 53*

Putter     :nike-small: Nike Method 001 / P2 Reflex grip 35"

Ball

Master Grip Tour C4

Bag

Datrek DG Lite  

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Never seen the axis 1 putter before, seems like where I'm trying to get the edel ( but like you say not exactly pretty!!). I've engaged people like Tom Slighted in the past, but wasn't really as informed as I am now.

 

As mentioned I'll feed back anything I find when I get some lead tape in the toe of the Edel, obviously that will then basically be a face balanced putter....

 

Glad to help wbealsd!! Hope you can get the big dog off without damage!!

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Glad to help wbealsd!! Hope you can get the big dog off without damage!!

I suspect I'll end up replacing it with a standard grip.  The Fatso was a recommendation by the fitter, but I've tried that style of grip before and really didn't care for them.

 

The fitting demonstrated that I twist my hands a bit when I putt, and the Fatso grip seems to exaggerate the effect, rather than keep my hands still.  I'm putting better with the putter with a standard grip than I am with the Edel with the misaligned Fatso...  I just grip down on the putter a bit, and my hands don't twist as much (or don't twist, I'm not really sure but it's working).

 

Frankly, the fitter was attempting to fit me to the putter, rather than fit the putter to the way I putt.  I've had a number of eye surgeries and my putting stance is a bit "sideways" because of eye dominance issues, and he wanted me to change my stance, as well.  

 

It was a totally different approach than a putter fitting I had at 2nd Swing a few years ago, and I'm back to using that putter as my gamer, for now.

What's In The Bag

Driver :titelist-small:

Titleist 913 D2 10.5* (set to 9.75* / Neutral) 46" Paderson KINETIXX Kevlar Green - R

Fairway Wood

Tom Wishon 949 MC 16.5* Fujikura Speeder 569-A

Hybrid  :cleveland-small: Hibore 22* Aldila VS Proto Blue

Irons  :ping-small: G series 5-P

Wedges :ping-small:Glide 54* SS / 60* TS - SCOR 53*

Putter     :nike-small: Nike Method 001 / P2 Reflex grip 35"

Ball

Master Grip Tour C4

Bag

Datrek DG Lite  

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  • 1 month later...

Wow, well this is very interesting reading. I got fitted in December for an E-3 and I've been using it ever since. I've also spent hours and hours practicing on a putting mat at home to groove my stroke over the winter. After a good 4 months of solid practice I went for a SAM Puttlab masterclass, and while the results were all very good one thing that the pro noted was that my impact point was very consistently placed - towards the heel. See the image below.

 

I wonder if this is directly related to where the sweet spot actually is, and after hours of practice I probably just naturally started hitting twards the heel because it felt more solid. He gave me some drills to improve impact location, so I'm now wondering whether I should just scrap that. :huh:

 

putter%20impact.jpg

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I wonder if this is directly related to where the sweet spot actually is, and after hours of practice I probably just naturally started hitting twards the heel because it felt more solid. He gave me some drills to improve impact location, so I'm now wondering whether I should just scrap that. :huh:

 

putter%20impact.jpg

Use the puttlab results as information. You are pretty consistent on that spot. How is your putting? Are you hitting you line and do you have good control over distance? If so, I wouldn't change anything. Changing the putter, stroke, or setup may move impact toward the center but you will have to retrain yourself. In the end Perfection is about results.

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Use the puttlab results as information. You are pretty consistent on that spot. How is your putting? Are you hitting you line and do you have good control over distance? If so, I wouldn't change anything. Changing the putter, stroke, or setup may move impact toward the center but you will have to retrain yourself. In the end Perfection is about results.

My line is usually very good. Distance control past 20ft or so needs improving.

 

 

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If you are hitting line I wouldnt change the stroke. Work on being able to roll the ball different distances while still hitting your line. Put a gate at about 20 inches, roll 10, 15, 20, 39, etc putts through the gate. Don't worry about making putts, work on distance control.

Driver:  :ping-small: G400 Max 9* w/ KBS Tour Driven
Fairway: :titelist-small: TS3 15* set  to 16.5* w/Project X Hzardous Smoke
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                :titelist-small: 915H  21*  w/KBS Tour Graphite Hybrid Prototype
               :titelist-small: 915H 24*  w/KBS Tour Graphite Hybrid Prototype
Irons:      :honma:TR20V 6-11 w/Vizard TR20-85 Graphite
Wedge:  :cleveland-small: 588 54-14, 58-12
Putter:  :odyssey-small: Ten S      Backups:  :bobby-grace-1: 6330,   :EVNROLL: ER2.2,  

 

Member:  MGS Hitsquad since 2017697979773_DSCN2368(Custom).JPG.a1a25f5e430d9eebae93c5d652cbd4b9.JPG

 

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I will say that even though my putting stats suck lately, my Edel E-2 is generally keeping me on my line, I just struggle with distance control. My misses, although short or long, are on my intended line. Could I benefit from the Evnroll technology, as maybe my distance issues are related to strike location? Not sure. Like any putter I've had, though, there are "spots" on my E-2 that sound/feel better. Doesn't seem to be a new phenomenon.

 

 

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Could I benefit from the Evnroll technology, as maybe my distance issues are related to strike location? N

Evnroll faces are designed to minimize the impact of mishits. If your distance control issues are a result of where you are hitting the ball then potentially yes

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Driver:  :ping-small: G400 Max 9* w/ KBS Tour Driven
Fairway: :titelist-small: TS3 15* set  to 16.5* w/Project X Hzardous Smoke
Hybrids:  :titelist-small: 816H1 19* set at 18* w/KBS Tour Graphite Hybrid Prototype
                :titelist-small: 915H  21*  w/KBS Tour Graphite Hybrid Prototype
               :titelist-small: 915H 24*  w/KBS Tour Graphite Hybrid Prototype
Irons:      :honma:TR20V 6-11 w/Vizard TR20-85 Graphite
Wedge:  :cleveland-small: 588 54-14, 58-12
Putter:  :odyssey-small: Ten S      Backups:  :bobby-grace-1: 6330,   :EVNROLL: ER2.2,  

 

Member:  MGS Hitsquad since 2017697979773_DSCN2368(Custom).JPG.a1a25f5e430d9eebae93c5d652cbd4b9.JPG

 

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