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So, in what I assume may have been a moment of frustration, MGS made a comment related to the contest article that shocked and depressed me a great deal. Amid all of the babble over FB and whether or not those of us who choose not to play are scared, out-of-touch conspiracy theorists, and those who do are joining the hordes of the great Satan and represent another indication of the impending collapse of civilization, was MGS's comment regarding donations. Is anyone else shocked, dismayed or even depressed to know that MGS collected only $2000 in donations over the past year? I have no idea of the number of regular (whatever that means) readers, visitors, forum members, etc., but that dollar figure is abysmal even if the number of people is 100. It's not. So buck up folks- and you know who you are. We want MGS to stay unbiased, unaffiliated, or whatever else you want to call it. That is worth something to me- more than subscriptions to any of the less impartial, shall we say, publications or sites supposedly devoted to our beloved game. Honestly, MGS's one comment has almost caused me to lose complete faith in humanity.


PING i20 8.5*, TFC707D (S)
Callaway RAZR Fit 15*, neutral setting, stock shaft (S)
PING i20 20*, TFC707H (S)
Adams Pro a12 23*, Matrix Ozik Altus (S)
PING i20 5-PW, TT DG S300, 1.5* flat (purple dot)
SCOR 50*,54*,58*, Genius 12 KBS Tour (S), 1.5* flat, -1/4"
STX xForm 3, 35"
 

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Yes that number surprising. I recently made a contribution simply because of the great prizes being offered in the contest. Not that I expect to win, but I felt the opportunity to win was worth a contribution.

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It shocked me also.....It's a disgrace....I take it that you obviously contributed to MGS, as have I...Based in your comments out front I in fact asked if you had made a donation, so you don't have to waste you time answering my question, as I will go bak and post the corrective comment...

 

Regarding donations, what really gets me is when I see forum members who have 100-200+ posts and the do no not have a donation badge in their side bar...Now there might be someone who does not want that posted though I would be surprised if it were more than an individual or two, if that....

 

Good post & great point....I happen to dissagree with your stance on the contest, though I couldn't agree more regarding this post...You nailed it!....

 

 

Fairways & Greens 4ever.....

Thanks RP. My early comments on the contest thread were fueled by the disappointment you feel after excited anticipation. I was and still am bummed about not participating, but realize it is by choice. The contest and the resulting thread are just a few of the things that bring many of us to this site in the first place. That and the many other valuable aspects of MGS are worth paying for to me, and to you too obviously. I imagine the MGS staff thought it would be to more people than have ponied up to this point, though I wouldn't presume to put words into their mouths. Then again, they're running a start-up business on a shoestring and probably had more realistic expectations than I would.


PING i20 8.5*, TFC707D (S)
Callaway RAZR Fit 15*, neutral setting, stock shaft (S)
PING i20 20*, TFC707H (S)
Adams Pro a12 23*, Matrix Ozik Altus (S)
PING i20 5-PW, TT DG S300, 1.5* flat (purple dot)
SCOR 50*,54*,58*, Genius 12 KBS Tour (S), 1.5* flat, -1/4"
STX xForm 3, 35"
 

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It does not shock me at all, it is the nature of the Internet.

 

I am a software developer, and for the last 7 years I have also been in the donation business. I have three software projects that I put into the public space as open source, donations encouraged software. I tried a couple of different methods to feel out the market.

 

In 7 years, I have 3/4 of a million downloads between the three projects. Thousands of thank you, great work, keep up the good work emails. Hundreds of it doesn't work emails that I have responded to, and fixed. I estimate that I have invested more than 5000 hours into the work.

 

In 6 years my total donation revenue is a little under $6000, and if I take one specif cdomor out of the equation, that number is under 1000. That one donor had a specific reason for donating, my project made his commercial product more valuable, so he contributed a large single donation.

 

The short answer is, that without a carrot, people do not donate. Further, my experiments lead me to believe that people have to have a set amount and a return for the dollar before they will donate.

 

Harsh reality is this. there are good , honest people. People as a whole though, tend to take the path of least expense, hence the popularity of Google and Facebook. They are free.


Dru - Owner, President & Janitor, Druware Software Designs

RH 18.0 Handicap in soggy Georgia 

WITB
* 1W 10.5* @ Hogan GS53 ( HZRDUS Smoke Black X-Stiff )
* 3W Hogan GS52 ( HZRDUS Smoke Black X-Stiff ) 
* 5W 18* Tailor-made AeroBurner ( Stock Stiff )
* 4I-AW @ Hogan Ft Worth
* 56 @ Cleveland RTX
* 60 @ Hogan Equalizer
* Carbon Ringo 1/4
* Snell MTB-X

 

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Fwiw, I admit donating has been on my todo list for a month or so.


Dru - Owner, President & Janitor, Druware Software Designs

RH 18.0 Handicap in soggy Georgia 

WITB
* 1W 10.5* @ Hogan GS53 ( HZRDUS Smoke Black X-Stiff )
* 3W Hogan GS52 ( HZRDUS Smoke Black X-Stiff ) 
* 5W 18* Tailor-made AeroBurner ( Stock Stiff )
* 4I-AW @ Hogan Ft Worth
* 56 @ Cleveland RTX
* 60 @ Hogan Equalizer
* Carbon Ringo 1/4
* Snell MTB-X

 

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Fwiw, I admit donating has been on my todo list for a month or so.

I didn't see the badge, but wasn't going to call you out or anything...LOL.


PING i20 8.5*, TFC707D (S)
Callaway RAZR Fit 15*, neutral setting, stock shaft (S)
PING i20 20*, TFC707H (S)
Adams Pro a12 23*, Matrix Ozik Altus (S)
PING i20 5-PW, TT DG S300, 1.5* flat (purple dot)
SCOR 50*,54*,58*, Genius 12 KBS Tour (S), 1.5* flat, -1/4"
STX xForm 3, 35"
 

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Dru, my comments were not directed at you....

 

Have a good week-end.....

 

Fairways & Greens 4ever......

 

Even if they were, they were deserved, justified and no offense was taken ;), that just isn't my style.


Dru - Owner, President & Janitor, Druware Software Designs

RH 18.0 Handicap in soggy Georgia 

WITB
* 1W 10.5* @ Hogan GS53 ( HZRDUS Smoke Black X-Stiff )
* 3W Hogan GS52 ( HZRDUS Smoke Black X-Stiff ) 
* 5W 18* Tailor-made AeroBurner ( Stock Stiff )
* 4I-AW @ Hogan Ft Worth
* 56 @ Cleveland RTX
* 60 @ Hogan Equalizer
* Carbon Ringo 1/4
* Snell MTB-X

 

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RP though i have a FB account, I can certainly give you both sides.

 

The crux of the issue is that nothing is free, not really, at least. In the case of MGS, it is funded by our zeyeballs on advertising and our meager donations ( in other words, just barely funded ). Facebook, on the other hand is far far more expensive. The cost of Facebook ( and Google, though most people don't understand this ) is your privacy and anonymity. While you don't pay either directly, by using either service, you are grunting them a free pass to track your movements on the Internet, and to use those movements to build a digital fingerprint. Of who you are, what your interests are, what advertisements work on you, your geographic location throughout the day and even predict your median income, and probable gender based upon this fingerprint.

 

Understand that all of the above is crreated without you ever actually using google or Facebook directly. Ever singe Adsense ad, google analytics using site, or like this button you see on a page is building your digital fingerprint. The minute you sign up to either of these services you assign a name and whatever personal information you share with them as a part of that process. You also grant them the right to sell that information to advertisers to generate revenue, but also to use that information to further tailor their services to you.

 

Understanding what they have access to, you have to choose if you are willing to give them this information. fWiW, I think most people would be shocked at how much "personal" information is already in advertisers and vendors hands. Loyalty cards, credit cards, ATM cards, cell phones, and pretty much any opt in service puts your information out there. If you use the Internet, your privacy is gone. Trust me when I say that any illusions you have of privacy are just that, illusions. They may not have your name, but they absolutely know your patterns, and how to sell to you.


Dru - Owner, President & Janitor, Druware Software Designs

RH 18.0 Handicap in soggy Georgia 

WITB
* 1W 10.5* @ Hogan GS53 ( HZRDUS Smoke Black X-Stiff )
* 3W Hogan GS52 ( HZRDUS Smoke Black X-Stiff ) 
* 5W 18* Tailor-made AeroBurner ( Stock Stiff )
* 4I-AW @ Hogan Ft Worth
* 56 @ Cleveland RTX
* 60 @ Hogan Equalizer
* Carbon Ringo 1/4
* Snell MTB-X

 

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RP though i have a FB account, I can certainly give you both sides.

 

The crux of the issue is that nothing is free, not really, at least. In the case of MGS, it is funded by our zeyeballs on advertising and our meager donations ( in other words, just barely funded ). Facebook, on the other hand is far far more expensive. The cost of Facebook ( and Google, though most people don't understand this ) is your privacy and anonymity. While you don't pay either directly, by using either service, you are grunting them a free pass to track your movements on the Internet, and to use those movements to build a digital fingerprint. Of who you are, what your interests are, what advertisements work on you, your geographic location throughout the day and even predict your median income, and probable gender based upon this fingerprint.

 

Understand that all of the above is crreated without you ever actually using google or Facebook directly. Ever singe Adsense ad, google analytics using site, or like this button you see on a page is building your digital fingerprint. The minute you sign up to either of these services you assign a name and whatever personal information you share with them as a part of that process. You also grant them the right to sell that information to advertisers to generate revenue, but also to use that information to further tailor their services to you.

 

Understanding what they have access to, you have to choose if you are willing to give them this information. fWiW, I think most people would be shocked at how much "personal" information is already in advertisers and vendors hands. Loyalty cards, credit cards, ATM cards, cell phones, and pretty much any opt in service puts your information out there. If you use the Internet, your privacy is gone. Trust me when I say that any illusions you have of privacy are just that, illusions. They may not have your name, but they absolutely know your patterns, and how to sell to you.

 

Get the NoScript plugin for firefox. Takes care of a lot of those pesky background scripts that track everything you do.

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Get the NoScript plugin for firefox. Takes care of a lot of those pesky background scripts that track everything you do.

 

Not as much as you think. Server side scripting can do a lot of tracking too, even cross site fetching images. Basically every browser can be uniquely identified, as well as source ip and thereby geographic locations. It is rally scary what can be reversed from. Browser request headers.


Dru - Owner, President & Janitor, Druware Software Designs

RH 18.0 Handicap in soggy Georgia 

WITB
* 1W 10.5* @ Hogan GS53 ( HZRDUS Smoke Black X-Stiff )
* 3W Hogan GS52 ( HZRDUS Smoke Black X-Stiff ) 
* 5W 18* Tailor-made AeroBurner ( Stock Stiff )
* 4I-AW @ Hogan Ft Worth
* 56 @ Cleveland RTX
* 60 @ Hogan Equalizer
* Carbon Ringo 1/4
* Snell MTB-X

 

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Still, I would like to know both sides and you obviously are passionate in your views yet you also hold MGS in high esteem & never attacked them while dissagreeing with the contest delivery system, unlike many others...

 

Thanx.....

 

 

Fairways & Greens 4ever......

Geez...glad I didn't answer before dru. My answer would have been much less informative. I actually did have an FB account at one time, but started to get uneasy with the requests and emails that resulted. My own perception is all, I'm sure. I also never used the site and was disappointed in long-time friends who started to rely solely on FB status updates and wall comments instead of calling or sending an email. Again, my own deal. I began to really hate that part of what FB stood for. Then came the security and privacy "mistakes" made by FB and that was it for me. And no, I'm not so uninformed that I am not aware of the tremendous amount of tracking that goes on each and very time I do anything on the web. The really interesting thing about my whole FB experience was what happened when I cancelled my account. I received countless emails from friends thinking something terrible had happened to me. That was weird and sort of sad. Anyway, obviously my reasons for avoiding FB are not as rational as they are emotional.


PING i20 8.5*, TFC707D (S)
Callaway RAZR Fit 15*, neutral setting, stock shaft (S)
PING i20 20*, TFC707H (S)
Adams Pro a12 23*, Matrix Ozik Altus (S)
PING i20 5-PW, TT DG S300, 1.5* flat (purple dot)
SCOR 50*,54*,58*, Genius 12 KBS Tour (S), 1.5* flat, -1/4"
STX xForm 3, 35"
 

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RP though i have a FB account, I can certainly give you both sides.

 

The crux of the issue is that nothing is free, not really, at least. In the case of MGS, it is funded by our zeyeballs on advertising and our meager donations ( in other words, just barely funded ). Facebook, on the other hand is far far more expensive. The cost of Facebook ( and Google, though most people don't understand this ) is your privacy and anonymity. While you don't pay either directly, by using either service, you are grunting them a free pass to track your movements on the Internet, and to use those movements to build a digital fingerprint. Of who you are, what your interests are, what advertisements work on you, your geographic location throughout the day and even predict your median income, and probable gender based upon this fingerprint.

 

Understand that all of the above is crreated without you ever actually using google or Facebook directly. Ever singe Adsense ad, google analytics using site, or like this button you see on a page is building your digital fingerprint. The minute you sign up to either of these services you assign a name and whatever personal information you share with them as a part of that process. You also grant them the right to sell that information to advertisers to generate revenue, but also to use that information to further tailor their services to you.

 

Understanding what they have access to, you have to choose if you are willing to give them this information. fWiW, I think most people would be shocked at how much "personal" information is already in advertisers and vendors hands. Loyalty cards, credit cards, ATM cards, cell phones, and pretty much any opt in service puts your information out there. If you use the Internet, your privacy is gone. Trust me when I say that any illusions you have of privacy are just that, illusions. They may not have your name, but they absolutely know your patterns, and how to sell to you.

 

They just paid a settlement to the FTC over antitrust too, to the tune of $22.5 million. And if you think Facebook is the only place your privacy is invaded in the Internet, you should get rid of your computer, smart phone, etc. privacy, in the Internet age, is over.


In The Bag
Driver: TaylorMade M2 (2017) w/ Project X T1100 HZRDUS Handcrafted 65x 
Strong 3 wood: Taylormade M1 15* w/ ProjectX T1100 HZRDUS handcrafted 75x
3 Hybrid: Adams PRO 18* w/ KBS Tour Hybrid S flex tipped 1/2"
4 Hybrid: Adams PRO 20* (bent to 21*) w/ KBS Tour Hybrid S flex tipped 1/2"
4-AW: TaylorMade P770 w/ Dynamic Gold Tour Issue Black Onyx S400

SW: 56* Scratch Tour Dept(CC grooves) w/ Dynamic Gold Spinner
LW: 60* Scratch Tour Department (CC grooves) w/ Dynamic Gold Spinner
XW: 64* Cally XForged Vintage w/ DG X100 8 iron tiger stepped
Putter: Nike Method Prototype 006 at 34"

Have a ton of back-ups in all categories, but there are always 14 clubs in the bag that differ depending on the course and set-up. Bomb and gouge. Yes, I'm a club gigolo.

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Back to the original question....

 

I like this site a lot.....but why don't I donate?

 

There seems to be an awful lot of sponsors, and an awful lot of great prizes being awarded. It appears that MGS no longer needs individual donations.

 

I think MGS has done a terrific job of recruiting small sponsors that cover the bills and make this site great.....without tapping into major OEM's.

 

If reality differs from appearance (and appearance is really everything), and MGS made an official plea for donations I might give a few bucks.

 

But again....MGS appears to be doing just fine.


In my bag, August 2019
:mizuno-small: JPX900 Driver Kuro Kage Shaft (Stiff Flex)
:mizuno-small: JPX900 Fairway  Mitsubishi Tensei Shaft (Stiff Flex)
:mizuno-small:  850 Forged 4-PW; KBS Tour (Stiff Flex)
 :callaway-small: PM Grind Wedges
:nike-small: Method Core

 
:titelist-small:  ProV1X Balls
Sun Mountain Cart Bag
:Clicgear: 3.5 Push Cart

HDCP 8.9

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Back to the original question....

 

I like this site a lot.....but why don't I donate?

 

There seems to be an awful lot of sponsors, and an awful lot of great prizes being awarded. It appears that MGS no longer needs individual donations.

 

I think MGS has done a terrific job of recruiting small sponsors that cover the bills and make this site great.....without tapping into major OEM's.

 

If reality differs from appearance (and appearance is really everything), and MGS made an official plea for donations I might give a few bucks.

 

But again....MGS appears to be doing just fine.

 

I don't think you're ever going to get a "plea" from X, but I will tell you straight out that if it appears to you that everything is "fine," then there is a gap between perception and reality.

 

Edit: I really hope that doesn't come off as snippy/aggressive/passive aggressive/whatever, but I believe it should be known that X and T are not sitting back counting stacks of money and the rest of us aren't paid anything.

 

Ultimately, it's everyone's choice whether or not they give. But if you don't give (and give meaningfully), and the day comes when MGS needs to take OEM dollars, just understand that you have no standing to say anything about it. At least that's my take.

 

Again, my opinions and nothing else.


Follow me on Twitter: @MattSaternus

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Edit: I really hope that doesn't come off as snippy/aggressive/passive aggressive/whatever, but I believe it should be known that X and T are not sitting back counting stacks of money and the rest of us aren't paid anything.

No, didn't come across like that at all. My post wasn't meant to be a flame of X and T either....it was supposed to be a compliment of what they have done with the site, really.

 

I'm an administrator on another non-golf forum. It's very similar to the concept, mentality, & size of MGS. No advertising whatsoever. We don't want to compromise free speech and free opinions. We don't even want the perception of it. However, MGS uses significantly more advanced software than we use, which raises the cost of running the site.....so I understand the need for some sort of revenue.

 

Again...I like this site....it's the only place I post anymore.


In my bag, August 2019
:mizuno-small: JPX900 Driver Kuro Kage Shaft (Stiff Flex)
:mizuno-small: JPX900 Fairway  Mitsubishi Tensei Shaft (Stiff Flex)
:mizuno-small:  850 Forged 4-PW; KBS Tour (Stiff Flex)
 :callaway-small: PM Grind Wedges
:nike-small: Method Core

 
:titelist-small:  ProV1X Balls
Sun Mountain Cart Bag
:Clicgear: 3.5 Push Cart

HDCP 8.9

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This is the only website that I donate to, I do it because I find value in the content. I look at MGS like I would a premium informational or entertainment subscription and pay accordingly. It doesn't surprise me a bit that I am in the minority in holding this opinion, in fact I sometimes wonder if I'm an idiot for paying for something I don't have to. Given that I am paying willingly I would certainly pay if I had to, if I had to then so would everyone else, so perhaps no one paying would force them to force everyone to pay?! :P

 

If MyGolfSpy wants more people to buck up, then they need to figure out a way to make that happen, it quite literally is not our business. They have to find their own formula that works.


Ping I20 8.5* - Aldila NV 65g S
Adams XTD Super Hybrid 15* - Stock Fubuki S
Adams DHY 21* - Stock Matrix Ozik White Tie S
Mizuno MP58 4-8 Irons - Fujikura MCI 100 S
SCOR 42,46,50,54,58* - SCOR/KBS Genius S
STX Robert Ingman Envision TR 35", Iomic grip

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Well, I am humbled by the kind words of RP and puzzled by those of BK. So the fact that MGS reached out to its readership in the first place for donations wasn't enough? Now they need to beg? Maybe that's not how you meant it, but that's how I read it. I guess what the donation comes down to for me, and one of the main reasons why I donated without giving it a second thought, is that the number of instances during a given year when we all pay for something which has a value below (sometimes well below) what we are asked to pay is pretty high in my opinion. I find the opposite to be true here. I am fully aware of the value of this site (to me) and what that is worth (again, to me). In fact, my donation may be too modest for what I feel is the value of this site. OK, I'm not trying to go overboard here and say that MGS is the be all and end all, but it's pretty darn good. I respect what the MGS team are working hard to accomplish, especially given that a fair number of that team is not being paid. I also trust that (hopefully) when, not if, the day comes when they no longer need individual donations they will be kind enough to thank us all and let us know. Then I'll help them drink the free beer.


PING i20 8.5*, TFC707D (S)
Callaway RAZR Fit 15*, neutral setting, stock shaft (S)
PING i20 20*, TFC707H (S)
Adams Pro a12 23*, Matrix Ozik Altus (S)
PING i20 5-PW, TT DG S300, 1.5* flat (purple dot)
SCOR 50*,54*,58*, Genius 12 KBS Tour (S), 1.5* flat, -1/4"
STX xForm 3, 35"
 

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If MyGolfSpy wants more people to buck up, then they need to figure out a way to make that happen, it quite literally is not our business. They have to find their own formula that works.

Oh man...I get what you're saying here, but I don't have to like it. I suppose it is possibly the business of those of us who feel something would be lost if MGS were to no longer exist. Too wishy-washy? Maybe for relying on to run a successful business it is. Still, I don't have to like it.


PING i20 8.5*, TFC707D (S)
Callaway RAZR Fit 15*, neutral setting, stock shaft (S)
PING i20 20*, TFC707H (S)
Adams Pro a12 23*, Matrix Ozik Altus (S)
PING i20 5-PW, TT DG S300, 1.5* flat (purple dot)
SCOR 50*,54*,58*, Genius 12 KBS Tour (S), 1.5* flat, -1/4"
STX xForm 3, 35"
 

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Well $2000 is pretty damn good in a year asking for voluntary donations. That is sort of b***ing about getting free products or money, when asking for handouts you can't complain what the price tag is really. I would have to assume that a big chunk of the money from donations goes back into supporting the website and keeping it running. that price tag is anything from $250 to $750 on average depending on hosts and licensing for software, could even be more.

 

They have 2 full time employees that I know are not living off the remainder of the money left over from donations. The sell ads on here and website space for a reason, not only are they getting money for the advertisements I would have to assume they are affiliate linked ads meaning they get paid like $0.05 per unique ip address that clicks the ad.

 

I hate to point readers at other golf forums sort of a tabo to me, but golfWRX.com does yearly subscriptions for $35 for member only giveaways. more PM shortage space, discounts in their store, other little perks as well. It is a pretty good way to hide the fact it is really just a yearly donation type of thing. I do the same thing on the Gaming Community website that I help run from a technical stand point, we have memberships so to speak on the forum that unlocks other fun things that non-members on the forum don't have access to. I would be happy to talk to X or T about it in PM if they were interested but not gonna get into a lot of detail here about it.


KZG VC-420 ML (10.5* Loft & 0.2* Open Face Angle) @ 44.50" (2" Bore Depth) w/ Graphite Design Tour AD DI-7 Stiff

Tour Edge Exotics CB3 Tour 16.5* @ 42.50" w/ RT Technologies Zeus (85g) Stiff (Tipped 1/2")

Srixon Z U45 19.0* @ 39.75" w/ KBS Tour-V X-Stiff (Soft Stepped 1x)

Cleveland 588 MB 3-P @ 38.75" - 35.25" (0.25" under), 60.5* - 64.0* (0.5* upright), 22* - 48* (1* weak) w/ KBS Tour-V X-Stiff (Soft Stepped 1x)

Cleveland 588 RTX 2.0 Black Satin (Blade) 54-12 @ 35.25", 64.00* w/ True Temper Dynamic Gold s400

Cleveland 588 RTX 2.0 Black Satin (Blade) 60-10 @ 35.25", 64.00* w/ True Temper Dynamic Gold s400

Lamkin UTX Wrap, Including Grip Core: 1/32 over (top hand), 1/16 over (bottom hand)

Srixon Z-Star

 

Golf Swing & Putting -- Bruce Rearick (Burnt Edges Consulting)

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I'm not going to lie, I haven't donated a whole lot. With that being said, this is the only website I have ever donated to. It is also on my "things to do" list, to donate more.

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