What is the best type of course to sustain and grow golf❓

[viking]

1. 9 hole

2. 18 hole

3. Executive 18 hole (i.e. mostly par 3's with a few par 4a, no par 5s). Par is usually 54-58.

Edited April 25, 2020 by viking

[viking]

I say the future of golf sustainability and growth is with Executive 18 hole as they can be played solo in 1.5-2 hours and also very fast in groups (2, 3 or 4).

People are very buys now with their lives and their children's lives plus working all hours due to cell and smart phones so they don't have time for 4-6+ hour rounds of golf plus may 2 hours travel (there and back) plus one hour for lunch.

Of course regular 9 and 18 hole courses will always be there as both are unique and have their loyal dedicated golfers but a happy medium of Executive 18 hole courses maybe where the future is to hold on to long time golfers who are always aging but still want to be active and play 18 holes.

I know this flies in the face of the ridiculous longer tee boxes (black) due to the pros hitting it 350+ yards, but that is not what the average weekend or even good golfers drive the ball and this lengthening of the courses is hurting golf because of that, making it longer to play and more frustrating to golfers mainly because of their silly ego having to play longer tees than they are capable o (this applies only to men and kids).

Edited April 25, 2020 by viking

[pulledabill]

In my area we've lost two 9 hole par 3 courses over the last 10 years or so and three over the last 20.  There are two about 40 minutes away.  That leaves no par 3 courses in an area of over 200,000 people.  All 3 of the properties went to houses.  We have one executive course which I seldom play so I have no idea if kid/families are out on it much as it is in a retirement community, but is open to all public play.  The next executive course is 30 minutes north and gets really busy.

My home course has houses and they only charge 5 or 10 bucks for youth, but many youth/families are intimidated by the houses and some of the other players on the courses.  I don't blame them.  I grew up playing on one of the closed courses as did many others in the area of similar age.  I just don't see how my area can grow a game when big courses are struggling to get by and we have no courses to foster the game. 

 

[Kenny B]

We need more 9 hole courses to help grow the game.  Growing the game means getting new people interested, and their interest wanes on 18 hole courses.  One can take only so much punishment!  The courses need to be nice enough that they want to come back and not dog tracks.  The balance comes between the cost of building and maintaining these courses and what is an acceptable fee to play.  Sometimes the margin just isn't there.

Sustain?  It has to be a combination of all types of courses suited to needs of the local community.  

My area has two 9-hole par 3 courses and one 9-hole exec course (2 par 3's, 6 par 4's, and one par 5, but it's a dog track).  Unfortunately, these courses are not the place for a decent golfer to play a "quick" nine.  Too many beginners and the quality isn't there.

My course, an 18-hole muni and gets a lot of 9-hole play because at peak times the other 9-hole courses are packed.  That clogs up my course on the front nine, which is also the longest (par 37) and the toughest nine.  There is no 9-hole play on the back nine unless it's late in the day and the pro shop says it's OK if no one is coming off #9.

[Kenny B]

2 minutes ago, pulledabill said:

In my area we've lost two 9 hole par 3 courses over the last 10 years or so and three over the last 20.  There are two about 40 minutes away.  That leaves no par 3 courses in an area of over 200,000 people.  All 3 of the properties went to houses.  We have one executive course which I seldom play so I have no idea if kid/families are out on it much as it is in a retirement community, but is open to all public play.  The next executive course is 30 minutes north and gets really busy.

My home course has houses and they only charge 5 or 10 bucks for youth, but many youth/families are intimidated by the houses and some of the other players on the courses.  I don't blame them.  I grew up playing on one of the closed courses as did many others in the area of similar age.  I just don't see how my area can grow a game when big courses are struggling to get by and we have no courses to foster the game. 

 

I was intimidated by the houses on your course 15 years ago!!  I hit the roof of one of them... maybe the same one you recently hit?

[DiscipleofPenick]

I've heard the future is full 18-hole courses but the layout and design is going to change significantly. It will still be a full length course, but it will be laid out in 3-hole circuits that circle back near the club house. That way people could play 3,6, or 12 holes instead of the option of only 9 or 18.

Forget 9 hole courses & par 3s. Those will be the dying breeds. I'd rather play a short executive 18 (especially with the wife) than only 9.

Take Dead Aim

[Shankster]

3,6,9,12,15, and 18 hole loops.

Make them all like Tigers Bluejack. No rough.

More “playgrounds” too. Putting courses.

[viking]

We also have a unique course in Carman Manitoba Canada. It is a great provincial championship course, was originally a 9 hole but expanded to 18. It is a parkland course with lots of trees, the uniqueness of it, they cut all the grass between al the trees on the whole course even the out of bounds rough, which is not rough. they also plant flowers on tee boxes, have granite hole sign boards with the hole layed out, fancy park benches with fancy waste baskets, paved cart pathsawesome course. Great layout as all tee boxes are next to (close) the previous greens except the walk from 9 to 10 is very long as is from 16 to 17 as that is the divide between the old and new courses, the back nine is the old course, the front none has the new and only clubhouse

[ZenGolfer]

I think executive 9-hole.  If you want to grow the game and keep people in the game, you need to make golf something that they can enjoy in a couple hours and that wont cost them a fortune.

When I first started playing golf, I played a lot of executive courses and par-3 courses; mostly because that was all I could afford at the time.  I still find that I dont enjoy a luxury course that costs $80 any more than I do a 9-hole muni that costs $12.

[PlaidJacket]

I don't have a definitive answer to the question posted above. But, here's what we're doing... (Sorry for the wall of words)

After recently retiring I took over operations of our First Tee chapter. Currently we've partnered with 3 courses. One is a muni, one is a daily fee course, and the other is a private club. We're very pleased to have them supporting the First Tee. But, we have to work-in our programs around their schedules and such. But it works. We also obtained a long term lease of an old abandoned driving range ($1/yr.) with plans to "fix it up" a bit and provide and additional space to offer some of our First Tee programs. Our lease includes an additional adjoining undeveloped 20 acres as well. Without doing into a lot of detail one of our board members is good friends with a (famous) golf course designer/developer who agreed to lend us a hand. So, we've now embarked on a full range - practice facility renovation and we're adding a 6-hole practice loop consisting of 2-par 4 holes and 4-par 3 holes. Unlike most golf facilities/courses; we're a nonprofit 501c3 organization. Do date we have a small group of (generous) folks funding this project and we're very lucky indeed as once completed we are debt free. I never gave much thought before about how much it can cost to build any kind of golf facility. But it's expensive! Especially if you want something people will come use and enjoy. This will not be a goat ranch.

Back to the question. I think the 6-hole course will be a hit by itself. The range will consist of a long range and a short game range/area including an 8,000 sq/ft putting green and 7,000 sq/ft chipping green. One thing among others that we believe makes all this doable is that we leased the acreage from a local property tax exempt organization. (No state income tax in Texas but we do have property taxes) They will also pay the electrical expense used to irrigate the course and range and we already had 3 good water wells available to us. Our lease also stipulated that we allow the local HS and Jr. college golf teams practice for free. The First Tee has primary usage. We'll also offer scheduled public use where folks can come out and buy buckets of balls and work through the whole bag including chipping, putting, etc. We'll charge a green fee for the 6-hole course but it will not be much. $6? Like any course or range there's maintenance to factor in. At this time we have pledges to sponsor maintenance for 2 years for each of the six holes. We'll also use many volunteers to assist our superintendent in exchange for free use of the facility. The local HS and college team members will also have to volunteer around the course on various days in exchange for their practice privileges.

The possibilities are endless when you have something like this available to you. Like mentioned above - many people are time constrained and 18 holes or even nine just isn't in the cards for them. And many courses don't even have very good practice areas. We think a quick-6 will work for a lot of people. Of course you can go around as many times as you like and play a different tee if that floats your boat. Our course will be walking only and or with a push cart if you like. We'll stage some fun events occasionally (6-hole low round, hole-in-one, course records, beat the Pro, parent child, etc. etc.) and our facility will be very family friendly. We are not going to operate a Pro shop or offer in-house F&B. Our small office will be for basic operations and perhaps sell some First Tee branded stuff and local HS / college shirts, caps, logo balls, etc. On the weekends we'll have various food trucks stop by and we'll provide a small area outdoors with shaded tables and chairs. We will not sell any alcohol per our lease agreement. Fine with me. We're also exploring memberships. Another aspect I really like is - we will ask everyone to abide by our Code of Conduct. We'll have a dress code too. Play by our rules and you're always welcome. Our goal is to operate a well maintained facility and break even as we're not tasked with making a profit. If there is a surplus, it goes back into the course and our First Tee operations and scholarship program. The End. 

[beelzeberto]

Here in Northwest Arkansas we have a lot of golf options to choose from and I think that is what will help grow the game more than one type of course. The 9 hole courses are generally the ones I see people start on and grow their love for the game, then they move on to the 18 hole courses.

There's like six 18 hole courses alone in Bella Vista, three or four in the bentonville/Rogers area, one in Pea Ridge, four or five in Fayetteville, and two in Springdale I think.

We have six 9 hole courses scattered around the area with only one of them being a strictly par 3 course that is relatively tough as the majority of the holes have water hazards (Lyndi Lindsey, owns the Lindsey property company).

So, variety is my answer.

[viking]

Interesting ideas.