JStapp Posted September 11, 2023 Share Posted September 11, 2023 Submitting some honest and well thought-out OPINION on indoor fittings. 1. First I would like to start out by saying that being fit indoor's is ALWAYS better than not being fit at all 2. With that being said, I believe being fit inside can give a false fitting in some ways. I don't think it is completely wrong or incorrect, but with trackman or GC4 not being able to track the full flight the results won't be spot on regardless. 3. Grass interaction vs Mat interaction is completely different. Bounce/Leading edge of irons or wedges will be significantly altered with grass. 4. Being able to see the complete ball flight, sometimes with weather conditions altering flights, is what I want to see as a better player. I've been fit at Club Champion several times at the beginning of my career. I enjoyed it for sure, it was better than nothing...but after doing all my fittings at a Major Venue with premium balls its HEADS above indoor fittings. What are all of your opinions' on this matter? Am I crazy? William P and MGoBlue100 2 Quote Driver: Ai SmokeTriple Diamond G425 MAX 12* w/ 3 Wood shaft Utility 3 Iron Irons: Srixon ZX7 Wedges: SM10 50* 54* F Grinds and SM9 58* M Grind Putter: Evnroll EV5 GolfBall: 2023 ProV1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NM01 Posted September 11, 2023 Share Posted September 11, 2023 4 hours ago, JStapp said: With that being said, I believe being fit inside can give a false fitting in some ways. I don't think it is completely wrong or incorrect, but with trackman or GC4 not being able to track the full flight the results won't be spot on regardless. GC4 doesn’t track flight, it looks at the ball just past impact. It’s more accurate for indoor fittings than trackman. I have been on monitors indoor with GC devices and the numbers are pretty accurate to what’s seen outside. 4 hours ago, JStapp said: Grass interaction vs Mat interaction is completely different. Bounce/Leading edge of irons or wedges will be significantly altered with grass. Yes but a good fitter can watch a swing and how it’s interacting with the turf in the studio and ensure the golfer is getting the right sole design. TXG is pretty good at this as are many of the TruSpec fitters. These type of thingsare what separate the top notch fitters from the rest. 4 hours ago, JStapp said: Being able to see the complete ball flight, sometimes with weather conditions altering flights, is what I want to see as a better player. I've been fit at Club Champion several times at the beginning of my career. I enjoyed it for sure, it was better than nothing...but after doing all my fittings at a Major Venue with premium balls its HEADS above indoor fittings. For many seeing the ball flight is beneficial even for the fitter especially those who understand ball flight laws and only uses the monitor to show the golfer what’s going on and/or to confirm what the ball flight is doing. Again a top notch fitter can get a golfer into the right setup indoors. When it comes to club champion there are better options out there. William P, KC Golf, JStapp and 1 other 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BMart519 Posted November 1, 2023 Share Posted November 1, 2023 On 9/11/2023 at 1:32 PM, JStapp said: Submitting some honest and well thought-out OPINION on indoor fittings. 1. First I would like to start out by saying that being fit indoor's is ALWAYS better than not being fit at all 2. With that being said, I believe being fit inside can give a false fitting in some ways. I don't think it is completely wrong or incorrect, but with trackman or GC4 not being able to track the full flight the results won't be spot on regardless. 3. Grass interaction vs Mat interaction is completely different. Bounce/Leading edge of irons or wedges will be significantly altered with grass. 4. Being able to see the complete ball flight, sometimes with weather conditions altering flights, is what I want to see as a better player. I've been fit at Club Champion several times at the beginning of my career. I enjoyed it for sure, it was better than nothing...but after doing all my fittings at a Major Venue with premium balls its HEADS above indoor fittings. What are all of your opinions' on this matter? Am I crazy? Largely agree with your points, especially if you have access to hit premium balls outdoors then there is no reason to do an indoor fit. I asked this question to the best player I know - my instructor (pro) who continues to qualify for RBC Canadian Open on tour most years... My focus was on using range balls outdoors to see flight and avoid swinging all out on a sim vs indoors with gamer balls for more accurate numbers on launch monitors. The response: "I take the clubs out on the course and see if the ball is hitting the proper trajectory I want" that's how he knew it was a good fit LOL I realized it will not be possible to compare approaches with someone on another planet in terms of skill level and a sponsorship to get clubs to any spec they want William P 1 Quote G425 MAX Driver & 5W Baffler Rail-H 3H-4H 699 Pro Utility V2 - 4i APEX CF19 6-AW INDI Wedges 52, 56, 60 EAS 2.0 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shrek74 Posted November 10, 2023 Share Posted November 10, 2023 I’m of the opinion that “it depends.” Indoor fittings absolutely have merit for all levels of players. It probably lends itself to the higher handicap players more than the better ball strikers though. Most high handicapers aren’t going to know much about turf interaction or how to tell a difference between good and bad. Great ball strikers should be able to feel it in either indoor or out, although real grass will be easier to tell. For some, hitting your gamer ball indoors is more important that hitting range balls outdoor. We all like to see ball flights and they are usually very telling on how well a club is working. But technology today, especially GC4/Trackman are so good these days that the virtual flights are so close to real. There are some places that actually combine indoor and outdoor. True Spec for example has the hitting area inside but the ball actually gets hit out an opening so they can see the ball flight. You don’t get the natural grass, but see the flight. Ultimately it’s what each person wants to experience and what’s most important. KC Golf and William P 2 Quote Driver: STMax 230 10.5*, Stiff HZRDUS Smoke Blue RDX, 60g Fairways: 949x 3w / 5w, 15* / 18*, Stiff HZRDUS Smoke Red RDX, 70g Hybrids: 939x 4h, 21*, Stiff HZRDUS Smoke Red RDX, 80g Hybrid Irons: JPX923 Hot Metal Pro, 5-GW, UST Mamiya Recoil 95 F4 Wedges: S23, 54* & 60*, UST Mamiya Recoil 95 F4 Putter: Moment X Tour @ 35" & 71*, Super Stroke Pistol GT 2.0, White/Red Ball: Tour CG Technology: Anarch Rangefinder, V5 w/ Tags Shot Tracking. https://forum.mygolfspy.com/topic/65161-vortex-optics-rangefinders-2024-member-test/?do=findComment&comment=1089247 https://forum.mygolfspy.com/topic/66852-unofficial-review-tpi-virtual-assessment https://forum.mygolfspy.com/classifieds/ - DON'T FORGET ABOUT THE CLASSIFIEDS!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NM01 Posted November 10, 2023 Share Posted November 10, 2023 5 hours ago, Shrek74 said: Indoor fittings absolutely have merit for all levels of players. It probably lends itself to the higher handicap players more than the better ball strikers though. Most high handicapers aren’t going to know much about turf interaction or how to tell a difference between good and bad. Great ball strikers should be able to feel it in either indoor or out, Fittings in general benefit the higher handicaps more than the lower because lower handicaps have the ability to adjust to equipment that isn’t a good fit easier and better than high handicaps. Most people regardless of handicap can tell when they hit one fat or thin based on sound and feel compared to hitting a good shot. The problem for some off mats is outdoor where they are focused on the ball flight and they overlook or ignore the sound and feel of a shot and only see the result and with mats a fat shot can produce a good result. The downside to indoor fittings especially if a fitter doesn’t understand the affect the mat has on launch and spin they could get the golfer into the wrong setup for course play Shrek74 and William P 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KC Golf Posted November 10, 2023 Share Posted November 10, 2023 10 hours ago, Shrek74 said: I’m of the opinion that “it depends.” Indoor fittings absolutely have merit for all levels of players. It probably lends itself to the higher handicap players more than the better ball strikers though. Most high handicapers aren’t going to know much about turf interaction or how to tell a difference between good and bad. Great ball strikers should be able to feel it in either indoor or out, although real grass will be easier to tell. For some, hitting your gamer ball indoors is more important that hitting range balls outdoor. We all like to see ball flights and they are usually very telling on how well a club is working. But technology today, especially GC4/Trackman are so good these days that the virtual flights are so close to real. There are some places that actually combine indoor and outdoor. True Spec for example has the hitting area inside but the ball actually gets hit out an opening so they can see the ball flight. You don’t get the natural grass, but see the flight. Ultimately it’s what each person wants to experience and what’s most important. I really like the ability to use your typical gamer ball with a Trackman or GC Quad outdoors for a fitting, but very few fitters have the capability to do this. So now I do my fittings (except wedges and putters) indoors using a GC Quad. I really don’t like range balls for fittings, since the data is pretty useless. Shrek74 and William P 2 Quote TSR 3 9.0 Autoflex 405x - Official Tester 2024 TSi 3 15.0 GD Tour AD - DI 6S Stiff Utility 2 Iron 18.0 - Nippon NS Pro 650GH Stiff / TS3 21 Hybrid Tensei AV Blue 65 HY Stiff 4 - 9 101T Irons - KBS Tour Lite Stiff - Official Tester 2023 Vokey SM9 46 F - 10 BV105 Stiff Vokey SM9 52 F - 12 Nippon NS Pro 950 Stiff Vokey Forged (Japan) 56 M - 10 DG S200 MG3 60 - 12 - Nippon NS Modus3 Tour 105 Stiff Champions Choice Newport 2+ Button Back - 35” / Pistolini Plus Z-Star Diamond Players 4 bag Official Tester - 2021 & Current Club Sensor User Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NM01 Posted November 10, 2023 Share Posted November 10, 2023 1 hour ago, KC Golf said: I really like the ability to use your typical gamer ball with a Trackman or GC Quad outdoors for a fitting, but very few fitters have the capability to do this. So now I do my fittings (except wedges and putters) indoors using a GC Quad. I really don’t like range balls for fittings, since the data is pretty useless. The data isn’t useless. Trackman has the ability to optimize the ball which makes it equivalent to a prov1. a good fitter understands the difference in spin and launch and use that information to determine what is happening with the ball flight and so on. I have done multiple fittings with range balls that were new or newish and the fit produced similar results on the course. KC Golf, Shrek74 and William P 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Donn lost in San Diego Posted March 23 Share Posted March 23 I cannot swing full speed naturally, any long club, indoors. I feel awkward hitting driver or 3wood indoors. and yes, even driver teed up, on mat v. grass & tee, outdoors works better. You can tee it up different heights when on grass. But as others said, indoors is better than no fitting. William P 1 Quote #1 PXG 0211 10.5 deg, Evnflo Riptide CB 40 gram A flex. 3W: Callaway Steelhead Xr, Tensei Blue CK 55 gram A flex. 5W : Titleist TSi 1, Aldila Ascent 40 regular flex. Driving Iron: Mizuno MP 18 MMC Fli-Hi 3i 18 degree, Recoil 95 reg flex. 4 iron: GFF Mizuno Fly-Hi, 24 degree forged hollow body, Aerotech Steelfiber . 5 Hybrid: Mizuno (2017) JPX Fli-Hi wave tech, Recoil ESX 460 reg flex. Irons: 6 - PW: Ping I 500, on Recoil Smacwrap ES 760, reg flex. Wedges: 2 x Mizuno S5 52/09. 1@ 50 deg, 1@ 54 deg; New (July 2024) Mizu ES 21, 58 x 08, jet black. Chipper: Don Martin "Up n In" brass/bronze. Putter: Odyssey Stroke Lab "R" Ball, face balanced, with 2 piece Stroke Lab multi material shaft. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GolfSpy_APH Posted March 23 Share Posted March 23 While most of my fittings have been indoors the outdoor fitting I had with Titleist was game changing. Will forever find it hard to go back to indoors. G-Ram and William P 2 Quote as of Oct 5, 2024 (Past WITB) Driver: GT2 with Graphite Design AD CQ - check out the Driver Shootout! Wood: GT2 with Graphite Design AD CQ shaft (still love my Cobra F7's) Irons: T Series - T200 5 Iron T150 6-9 Iron Wedge: Toura Golf - A Spec 53,57 or SM10 45,49,53,57 degree wedges Putter: LINK! Full putter shootout incoming Balls: Vice Pro Plus Drip (Blue/Orange) Golf Bag: Ghost Anyday 5.0 Golf bag - Maverick colorway with MGS Logo Other: Vortex Anarch Rangefinder, searching for electric cart, Red Rooster The Root Glove and more Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Donn lost in San Diego Posted March 23 Share Posted March 23 2 hours ago, GolfSpy_APH said: While most of my fittings have been indoors the outdoor fitting I had with Titleist was game changing. Will forever find it hard to go back to indoors. where did u do the Titleist, and how do they price it? Quote #1 PXG 0211 10.5 deg, Evnflo Riptide CB 40 gram A flex. 3W: Callaway Steelhead Xr, Tensei Blue CK 55 gram A flex. 5W : Titleist TSi 1, Aldila Ascent 40 regular flex. Driving Iron: Mizuno MP 18 MMC Fli-Hi 3i 18 degree, Recoil 95 reg flex. 4 iron: GFF Mizuno Fly-Hi, 24 degree forged hollow body, Aerotech Steelfiber . 5 Hybrid: Mizuno (2017) JPX Fli-Hi wave tech, Recoil ESX 460 reg flex. Irons: 6 - PW: Ping I 500, on Recoil Smacwrap ES 760, reg flex. Wedges: 2 x Mizuno S5 52/09. 1@ 50 deg, 1@ 54 deg; New (July 2024) Mizu ES 21, 58 x 08, jet black. Chipper: Don Martin "Up n In" brass/bronze. Putter: Odyssey Stroke Lab "R" Ball, face balanced, with 2 piece Stroke Lab multi material shaft. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GolfSpy_APH Posted March 23 Share Posted March 23 3 minutes ago, Donn lost in San Diego said: where did u do the Titleist, and how do they price it? It was here in Zurich and due to a previous situation he didn't charge me. Long story. Quote as of Oct 5, 2024 (Past WITB) Driver: GT2 with Graphite Design AD CQ - check out the Driver Shootout! Wood: GT2 with Graphite Design AD CQ shaft (still love my Cobra F7's) Irons: T Series - T200 5 Iron T150 6-9 Iron Wedge: Toura Golf - A Spec 53,57 or SM10 45,49,53,57 degree wedges Putter: LINK! Full putter shootout incoming Balls: Vice Pro Plus Drip (Blue/Orange) Golf Bag: Ghost Anyday 5.0 Golf bag - Maverick colorway with MGS Logo Other: Vortex Anarch Rangefinder, searching for electric cart, Red Rooster The Root Glove and more Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Donn lost in San Diego Posted March 23 Share Posted March 23 Switzerland. Oh. Too far to fly. I will fly to Burgundy for wine, but Switzerland? That extra 1 hour is killer! Quote #1 PXG 0211 10.5 deg, Evnflo Riptide CB 40 gram A flex. 3W: Callaway Steelhead Xr, Tensei Blue CK 55 gram A flex. 5W : Titleist TSi 1, Aldila Ascent 40 regular flex. Driving Iron: Mizuno MP 18 MMC Fli-Hi 3i 18 degree, Recoil 95 reg flex. 4 iron: GFF Mizuno Fly-Hi, 24 degree forged hollow body, Aerotech Steelfiber . 5 Hybrid: Mizuno (2017) JPX Fli-Hi wave tech, Recoil ESX 460 reg flex. Irons: 6 - PW: Ping I 500, on Recoil Smacwrap ES 760, reg flex. Wedges: 2 x Mizuno S5 52/09. 1@ 50 deg, 1@ 54 deg; New (July 2024) Mizu ES 21, 58 x 08, jet black. Chipper: Don Martin "Up n In" brass/bronze. Putter: Odyssey Stroke Lab "R" Ball, face balanced, with 2 piece Stroke Lab multi material shaft. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Donn lost in San Diego Posted March 23 Share Posted March 23 I went online and answered my own question about : Titleist Performance Institute is 3 miles from my home, in Oceanside, CA. I always wondered what those nets were that I see from the road where there isn't a golf course. A Pro fitting is 2.5 to 3 hours long. $750. Not applied toward purchase. O. U. C. H. x 10. musicalmedicine 1 Quote #1 PXG 0211 10.5 deg, Evnflo Riptide CB 40 gram A flex. 3W: Callaway Steelhead Xr, Tensei Blue CK 55 gram A flex. 5W : Titleist TSi 1, Aldila Ascent 40 regular flex. Driving Iron: Mizuno MP 18 MMC Fli-Hi 3i 18 degree, Recoil 95 reg flex. 4 iron: GFF Mizuno Fly-Hi, 24 degree forged hollow body, Aerotech Steelfiber . 5 Hybrid: Mizuno (2017) JPX Fli-Hi wave tech, Recoil ESX 460 reg flex. Irons: 6 - PW: Ping I 500, on Recoil Smacwrap ES 760, reg flex. Wedges: 2 x Mizuno S5 52/09. 1@ 50 deg, 1@ 54 deg; New (July 2024) Mizu ES 21, 58 x 08, jet black. Chipper: Don Martin "Up n In" brass/bronze. Putter: Odyssey Stroke Lab "R" Ball, face balanced, with 2 piece Stroke Lab multi material shaft. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
G-Ram Posted March 24 Share Posted March 24 Scheissen, $750 is a pretty big number alright... I'd do it one time, but that's only because I'm getting long in the tooth and don't have many years of good play ahead of me haha who knows, maybe they let you wander around the tour truck etc as well in the off season? Some of that price is undoubtedly for the experience as well... Quote we got a pool and a pond... the pond would be good for you Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NM01 Posted March 24 Share Posted March 24 59 minutes ago, G-Ram said: Scheissen, $750 is a pretty big number alright... I'd do it one time, but that's only because I'm getting long in the tooth and don't have many years of good play ahead of me haha who knows, maybe they let you wander around the tour truck etc as well in the off season? Some of that price is undoubtedly for the experience as well... This is for a full bag fitting. Its a great price if you compared what it would cost to do each part of the bag separately. It’s also with some of the best fitters in the industry. The fitters work with the pros who come in for fittings. It’s beyond worth the price. G-Ram 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NM01 Posted March 24 Share Posted March 24 3 hours ago, Donn lost in San Diego said: I went online and answered my own question about : Titleist Performance Institute is 3 miles from my home, in Oceanside, CA. I always wondered what those nets were that I see from the road where there isn't a golf course. A Pro fitting is 2.5 to 3 hours long. $750. Not applied toward purchase. O. U. C. H. x 10. When you go to top end fitters you aren’t going to get the fitting fee applied to purchase. Places that do that are interested in the sales as much as the fitting. i personally don’t want to be fit where the fee is applied towards the purchase. Its not going to be as good of a fitting Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
G-Ram Posted March 24 Share Posted March 24 8 minutes ago, RickyBobby_PR said: This is for a full bag fitting. Its a great price if you compared what it would cost to do each part of the bag separately. It’s also with some of the best fitters in the industry. The fitters work with the pros who come in for fittings. It’s beyond worth the price. Oh yeah, I'm all about it, sadly being in British Columbia, it turns into a $3,000 fitting after airfare, hotels, drinks, rounds etc haha. One day I plan on doing a fitting like that, would help if I was to stop collecting drivers and shafts like they're free Quote we got a pool and a pond... the pond would be good for you Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rkj427 Posted March 24 Share Posted March 24 (edited) 46 minutes ago, RickyBobby_PR said: When you go to top end fitters you aren’t going to get the fitting fee applied to purchase. Places that do that are interested in the sales as much as the fitting. i personally don’t want to be fit where the fee is applied towards the purchase. Its not going to be as good of a fitting Not for the sake of an argument, but a Titleist fitting fee is typically $100.00 for an hour fitting outdoors at a course / range for a specific set of clubs, such as irons, woods, hybrids, wedges each having their own fitting process. The fee is then credited to any purchase you may make, and if you do not make a purchase the fee is for the fitting and the information/data they provide to you. Like you mention, the Titleist fitting in California is usually a whole bag, typically spread out over a few days, and is truly much more comprehensive as they will have all shaft options on hand for all players coming to get fit. Now for the original poster who asked the question, you may want to check the Titleist website and see if they may have a fitter and date scheduled at a course in your location. Edited March 24 by rkj427 Quote Driver & Fairway: Titleist GT2 8 degree - Ventus TR Red & TSR3 15 - Hzrdus Black Gen 4 Hybrid: TSR2 21 degree - Hzrdus Black Gen 4 Irons: Titleist T200 3G (4) & T150 - (5-G) - Modus 105 Wedges: Vokey SM9 54, and 58 Putter: Cameron Phantom X 5 Ball: Pro V1 & Maxfli Tour Link to Motocaddy M7 w/Remote Trolley & Bag Review Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NM01 Posted March 24 Share Posted March 24 (edited) 10 hours ago, rkj427 said: The fee is then credited to any purchase you may make, and if you do not make a purchase the fee is for the fitting and the information/data they provide to you. This is a slightly different scenario than what I’m describing. This is part of their demo day stuff which ks a titleist fitting done at a host facility. The whole purpose of this is to sell clubs. It’s a great plan. They provide a quality fitter, charge the golfer for the fitting which ks paying for the fitters time and experience. Then when the fitter gets done and has the golfer in a better setup offer them to apply the money to the purchase. They spent the $100 no matter what. The shop gets a sale, the rep for the area is credited with sales and the fitter is still paid by titleist for their time. Titleist builds potential future customer loyalty and you don’t have someone that’s just coming in to beat balls af a demo day with no intention of buying I was referring to going to a fitter at his/her facility for a fitting. The good ones aren’t going to try and sell a club they are going tk do what’s best for the golfer which may include letting them know what they have can’t be beat by something new. 10 hours ago, rkj427 said: Like you mention, the Titleist fitting in California is usually a whole bag, typically spread out over a few days, and is truly much more comprehensive as they will have all shaft options on hand for all players coming to get fit. Titleist offers full bag, drivers/woods/hybrids, irons, wedges as separate fittings so not all fittings are full bag. It depends on what the customer is paying for. The full bag is. 1/2 day fitting, typically between 2,5-3 hours. I may be wrong on this but for non pros they only offer the shafts in their shaft matrix. Because if someone wants to order from the website or thru a local account after the fitting they can’t order a shaft not in the matrix for titleist. Edited March 24 by RickyBobby_PR Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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