Outdoor vs Indoor Fittings

[JStapp]

Submitting some honest and well thought-out OPINION on indoor fittings. 

1. First I would like to start out by saying that being fit indoor's is ALWAYS better than not being fit at all

2. With that being said, I believe being fit inside can give a false fitting in some ways. I don't think it is completely wrong or incorrect, but with trackman or GC4 not being able to track the full flight the results won't be spot on regardless. 

3. Grass interaction vs Mat interaction is completely different. Bounce/Leading edge of irons or wedges will be significantly altered with grass. 

4. Being able to see the complete ball flight, sometimes with weather conditions altering flights, is what I want to see as a better player. I've been fit at Club Champion several times at the beginning of my career. I enjoyed it for sure, it was better than nothing...but after doing all my fittings at a Major Venue with premium balls its HEADS above indoor fittings. 

 

What are all of your opinions' on this matter? Am I crazy? 

[RickyBobby_PR]

4 hours ago, JStapp said:

With that being said, I believe being fit inside can give a false fitting in some ways. I don't think it is completely wrong or incorrect, but with trackman or GC4 not being able to track the full flight the results won't be spot on regardless. 

GC4 doesn’t track flight, it looks at the ball just past impact. It’s more accurate for indoor fittings than trackman. I have been on monitors indoor with GC devices and the numbers are pretty accurate to what’s seen outside.

4 hours ago, JStapp said:

Grass interaction vs Mat interaction is completely different. Bounce/Leading edge of irons or wedges will be significantly altered with grass. 

 

Yes but a good fitter can watch a swing and how it’s interacting with the turf in the studio and ensure the golfer is getting the right sole design. TXG is pretty good at this as are many of the TruSpec fitters. These type of thingsare what separate the top notch fitters from the rest.

4 hours ago, JStapp said:

Being able to see the complete ball flight, sometimes with weather conditions altering flights, is what I want to see as a better player. I've been fit at Club Champion several times at the beginning of my career. I enjoyed it for sure, it was better than nothing...but after doing all my fittings at a Major Venue with premium balls its HEADS above indoor fittings. 

For many seeing the ball flight is beneficial even for the fitter especially those who understand ball flight laws and only uses the monitor to show the golfer what’s going on and/or to confirm what the ball flight is doing.

Again a top notch fitter can get a golfer into the right setup indoors. 
 

When it comes to club champion there are better options out there. 

[BMart519]

On 9/11/2023 at 1:32 PM, JStapp said:

Submitting some honest and well thought-out OPINION on indoor fittings. 

1. First I would like to start out by saying that being fit indoor's is ALWAYS better than not being fit at all

2. With that being said, I believe being fit inside can give a false fitting in some ways. I don't think it is completely wrong or incorrect, but with trackman or GC4 not being able to track the full flight the results won't be spot on regardless. 

3. Grass interaction vs Mat interaction is completely different. Bounce/Leading edge of irons or wedges will be significantly altered with grass. 

4. Being able to see the complete ball flight, sometimes with weather conditions altering flights, is what I want to see as a better player. I've been fit at Club Champion several times at the beginning of my career. I enjoyed it for sure, it was better than nothing...but after doing all my fittings at a Major Venue with premium balls its HEADS above indoor fittings. 

 

What are all of your opinions' on this matter? Am I crazy? 

Largely agree with your points, especially if you have access to hit premium balls outdoors then there is no reason to do an indoor fit. I asked this question to the best player I know - my instructor (pro) who continues to qualify for RBC Canadian Open on tour most years...  My focus was on using range balls outdoors to see flight and avoid swinging all out on a sim vs indoors with gamer balls for more accurate numbers on launch monitors.

The response: "I take the clubs out on the course and see if the ball is hitting the proper trajectory I want" that's how he knew it was a good fit LOL

I realized it will not be possible to compare approaches with someone on another planet in terms of skill level and a sponsorship to get clubs to any spec they want 

[Shrek74]

I’m of the opinion that “it depends.”

Indoor fittings absolutely have merit for all levels of players. It probably lends itself to the higher handicap players more than the better ball strikers though. Most high handicapers aren’t going to know much about turf interaction or how to tell a difference between good and bad. Great ball strikers should be able to feel it in either indoor or out, although real grass will be easier to tell. For some, hitting your gamer ball indoors is more important that hitting range balls outdoor.

We all like to see ball flights and they are usually very telling on how well a club is working. But technology today, especially GC4/Trackman are so good these days that the virtual flights are so close to real.

There are some places that actually combine indoor and outdoor. True Spec for example has the hitting area inside but the ball actually gets hit out an opening so they can see the ball flight. You don’t get the natural grass, but see the flight.

Ultimately it’s what each person wants to experience and what’s most important.

[RickyBobby_PR]

5 hours ago, Shrek74 said:

Indoor fittings absolutely have merit for all levels of players. It probably lends itself to the higher handicap players more than the better ball strikers though. Most high handicapers aren’t going to know much about turf interaction or how to tell a difference between good and bad. Great ball strikers should be able to feel it in either indoor or out,

Fittings in general benefit the higher handicaps more than the lower because lower handicaps have the ability to adjust to equipment that isn’t a good fit easier and better than high handicaps. 

Most people regardless of handicap can tell when they hit one fat or thin based on sound and feel compared to hitting a good shot. The problem for some off mats is outdoor where they are focused on the ball flight and they overlook or ignore the sound and feel of a shot and only see the result and with mats a fat shot can produce a good result.

The downside to indoor fittings especially if a fitter doesn’t understand the affect the mat has on launch and spin they could get the golfer into the wrong setup for course play 

[KC Golf]

10 hours ago, Shrek74 said:

I’m of the opinion that “it depends.”

Indoor fittings absolutely have merit for all levels of players. It probably lends itself to the higher handicap players more than the better ball strikers though. Most high handicapers aren’t going to know much about turf interaction or how to tell a difference between good and bad. Great ball strikers should be able to feel it in either indoor or out, although real grass will be easier to tell. For some, hitting your gamer ball indoors is more important that hitting range balls outdoor.

We all like to see ball flights and they are usually very telling on how well a club is working. But technology today, especially GC4/Trackman are so good these days that the virtual flights are so close to real.

There are some places that actually combine indoor and outdoor. True Spec for example has the hitting area inside but the ball actually gets hit out an opening so they can see the ball flight. You don’t get the natural grass, but see the flight.

Ultimately it’s what each person wants to experience and what’s most important.

I really like the ability to use your typical gamer ball with a Trackman or GC Quad outdoors for a fitting, but very few fitters have the capability to do this.  

So now I do my fittings (except wedges and putters) indoors using a GC Quad.  I really don’t like range balls for fittings, since the data is pretty useless.

[RickyBobby_PR]

1 hour ago, KC Golf said:

I really like the ability to use your typical gamer ball with a Trackman or GC Quad outdoors for a fitting, but very few fitters have the capability to do this.  

So now I do my fittings (except wedges and putters) indoors using a GC Quad.  I really don’t like range balls for fittings, since the data is pretty useless.

The data isn’t useless. Trackman has the ability to optimize the ball which makes it equivalent to a prov1.

a good fitter understands the difference in spin and launch and use that information to determine what is happening with the ball flight and so on.

I have done multiple fittings with range balls that were new or newish and the fit produced similar results on the course. 

[Donn lost in San Diego]

I cannot swing full speed naturally, any long club, indoors.  I feel awkward hitting driver or 3wood indoors.  and yes, even driver teed up, on mat v. grass & tee, outdoors works better.  You can tee it up different heights when on grass.  But as others said, indoors is better than no fitting. 

[GolfSpy_APH]

While most of my fittings have been indoors the outdoor fitting I had with Titleist was game changing. 

Will forever find it hard to go back to indoors.

[Donn lost in San Diego]

2 hours ago, GolfSpy_APH said:

While most of my fittings have been indoors the outdoor fitting I had with Titleist was game changing. 

Will forever find it hard to go back to indoors.

where did u do the Titleist, and how do they price it?

[GolfSpy_APH]

3 minutes ago, Donn lost in San Diego said:

where did u do the Titleist, and how do they price it?

It was here in Zurich and due to a previous situation he didn't charge me. Long story. 

[Donn lost in San Diego]

Switzerland.  Oh.  Too far to fly.  I will fly to Burgundy for wine, but Switzerland?  That extra 1 hour is killer!

[Donn lost in San Diego]

I went online and answered my own question about :  Titleist Performance Institute is 3 miles from my home, in Oceanside, CA.  I always wondered what those nets were that I see from the road where there isn't a golf course.  A Pro fitting is 2.5 to 3 hours long.  $750.  Not applied toward purchase.  O. U. C. H. x 10.   

[G-Ram]

Scheissen, $750 is a pretty big number alright...

I'd do it one time, but that's only because I'm getting long in the tooth and don't have many years of good play ahead of me haha

who knows, maybe they let you wander around the tour truck etc as well in the off season?

Some of that price is undoubtedly for the experience as well...

[RickyBobby_PR]

59 minutes ago, G-Ram said:

Scheissen, $750 is a pretty big number alright...

I'd do it one time, but that's only because I'm getting long in the tooth and don't have many years of good play ahead of me haha

who knows, maybe they let you wander around the tour truck etc as well in the off season?

Some of that price is undoubtedly for the experience as well...

This is for a full bag fitting. Its a great price if you compared what it would cost to do each part of the bag separately.

It’s also with some of the best fitters in the industry. The fitters work with the pros who come in for fittings. It’s beyond worth the price.

 

[RickyBobby_PR]

3 hours ago, Donn lost in San Diego said:

I went online and answered my own question about :  Titleist Performance Institute is 3 miles from my home, in Oceanside, CA.  I always wondered what those nets were that I see from the road where there isn't a golf course.  A Pro fitting is 2.5 to 3 hours long.  $750.  Not applied toward purchase.  O. U. C. H. x 10.   

When you go to top end fitters you aren’t going to get the fitting fee applied to purchase. Places that do that are interested in the sales as much as the fitting.

i personally don’t want to be fit where the fee is applied towards the purchase. Its not going to be as good of a fitting 

[G-Ram]

8 minutes ago, RickyBobby_PR said:

This is for a full bag fitting. Its a great price if you compared what it would cost to do each part of the bag separately.

It’s also with some of the best fitters in the industry. The fitters work with the pros who come in for fittings. It’s beyond worth the price.

 

Oh yeah, I'm all about it, sadly being in British Columbia, it turns into a $3,000 fitting after airfare, hotels, drinks, rounds etc haha.

One day I plan on doing a fitting like that, would help if I was to stop collecting drivers and shafts like they're free 

[rkj427]

46 minutes ago, RickyBobby_PR said:

When you go to top end fitters you aren’t going to get the fitting fee applied to purchase. Places that do that are interested in the sales as much as the fitting.

i personally don’t want to be fit where the fee is applied towards the purchase. Its not going to be as good of a fitting 

Not for the sake of an argument, but a Titleist fitting fee is typically $100.00 for an hour fitting outdoors at a course / range for a specific set of clubs, such as irons, woods, hybrids, wedges each having their own fitting process.

The fee is then credited to any purchase you may make, and if you do not make a purchase the fee is for the fitting and the information/data they provide to you.

Like you mention, the Titleist fitting in California is usually a whole bag, typically spread out over a few days, and is truly much more comprehensive as they will have all shaft options on hand for all players coming to get fit.

Now for the original poster who asked the question, you may want to check the Titleist website and see if they may have a fitter and date scheduled at a course in your location.

 

Edited March 24 by rkj427

[RickyBobby_PR]

10 hours ago, rkj427 said:

The fee is then credited to any purchase you may make, and if you do not make a purchase the fee is for the fitting and the information/data they provide to you.

 

This is a slightly different scenario than what I’m describing. This is part of their demo day stuff which ks a titleist fitting done at a host facility. The whole purpose of this is to sell clubs. It’s a great plan. They provide a quality fitter, charge the golfer for the fitting which ks paying for the fitters time and experience. Then when the fitter gets done and has the golfer in a better setup offer them to apply the money to the purchase. They spent the $100 no matter what. The shop gets a sale, the rep for the area is credited with sales and the fitter is still paid by titleist for their time. Titleist builds potential future customer loyalty and you don’t have someone that’s just coming in to beat balls af a demo day with no intention of buying 

I was referring to going to a fitter at his/her facility for a fitting. The good ones aren’t going to try and sell a club they are going tk do what’s best for the golfer which may include letting them know what they have can’t be beat by something new.

10 hours ago, rkj427 said:

Like you mention, the Titleist fitting in California is usually a whole bag, typically spread out over a few days, and is truly much more comprehensive as they will have all shaft options on hand for all players coming to get fit.

 

Titleist offers full bag, drivers/woods/hybrids, irons, wedges as separate fittings so not all fittings are full bag. It depends on what the customer is paying for. The full bag is. 1/2 day fitting, typically between 2,5-3 hours.

I may be wrong on this but for non pros they only offer the shafts in their shaft matrix. Because if someone wants to order from the website or thru a local account after the fitting they can’t order a shaft not in the matrix for titleist.

Edited March 24 by RickyBobby_PR