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Outdoor vs Indoor Fittings


JStapp

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Submitting some honest and well thought-out OPINION on indoor fittings. 

1. First I would like to start out by saying that being fit indoor's is ALWAYS better than not being fit at all 🙂

2. With that being said, I believe being fit inside can give a false fitting in some ways. I don't think it is completely wrong or incorrect, but with trackman or GC4 not being able to track the full flight the results won't be spot on regardless. 

3. Grass interaction vs Mat interaction is completely different. Bounce/Leading edge of irons or wedges will be significantly altered with grass. 

4. Being able to see the complete ball flight, sometimes with weather conditions altering flights, is what I want to see as a better player. I've been fit at Club Champion several times at the beginning of my career. I enjoyed it for sure, it was better than nothing...but after doing all my fittings at a Major Venue with premium balls its HEADS above indoor fittings. 

 

What are all of your opinions' on this matter? Am I crazy? 

:callaway-small:Driver: Paradym Triple Diamond

:taylormade-small:3 Wood: Stealth Plus

:taylormade-small:Hybrid: Stealth Plus 

:srixon-small:Irons: Srixon ZX7

:taylormade-small:Wedges: MG2 50* MG3 54* and SM9 58* M Grind

:EVNROLL:Putter: Evnroll EV5

:titleist-small: GolfBall: 2023 ProV1

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4 hours ago, JStapp said:

With that being said, I believe being fit inside can give a false fitting in some ways. I don't think it is completely wrong or incorrect, but with trackman or GC4 not being able to track the full flight the results won't be spot on regardless. 

GC4 doesn’t track flight, it looks at the ball just past impact. It’s more accurate for indoor fittings than trackman. I have been on monitors indoor with GC devices and the numbers are pretty accurate to what’s seen outside.

4 hours ago, JStapp said:

Grass interaction vs Mat interaction is completely different. Bounce/Leading edge of irons or wedges will be significantly altered with grass. 

 

Yes but a good fitter can watch a swing and how it’s interacting with the turf in the studio and ensure the golfer is getting the right sole design. TXG is pretty good at this as are many of the TruSpec fitters. These type of thingsare what separate the top notch fitters from the rest.

4 hours ago, JStapp said:

Being able to see the complete ball flight, sometimes with weather conditions altering flights, is what I want to see as a better player. I've been fit at Club Champion several times at the beginning of my career. I enjoyed it for sure, it was better than nothing...but after doing all my fittings at a Major Venue with premium balls its HEADS above indoor fittings. 

For many seeing the ball flight is beneficial even for the fitter especially those who understand ball flight laws and only uses the monitor to show the golfer what’s going on and/or to confirm what the ball flight is doing.

Again a top notch fitter can get a golfer into the right setup indoors. 
 

When it comes to club champion there are better options out there. 

Driver: PXG 0811 X+ Proto w/UST Helium 5F4

Wood: TaylorMade M5 5W w/Accra TZ5 +1/2”, TaylorMade Sim 3W w/Aldila rogue white

Hybrid: PXG Gen2 22* w/AD hybrid

Irons: PXG Gen3 0311T w/Nippon modus 120

Wedges: TaylorMade MG2 50*, Tiger grind 56/60

Putter: Scotty Caemeron Super Rat1

Ball: Titleist Prov1

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  • 1 month later...
On 9/11/2023 at 1:32 PM, JStapp said:

Submitting some honest and well thought-out OPINION on indoor fittings. 

1. First I would like to start out by saying that being fit indoor's is ALWAYS better than not being fit at all 🙂

2. With that being said, I believe being fit inside can give a false fitting in some ways. I don't think it is completely wrong or incorrect, but with trackman or GC4 not being able to track the full flight the results won't be spot on regardless. 

3. Grass interaction vs Mat interaction is completely different. Bounce/Leading edge of irons or wedges will be significantly altered with grass. 

4. Being able to see the complete ball flight, sometimes with weather conditions altering flights, is what I want to see as a better player. I've been fit at Club Champion several times at the beginning of my career. I enjoyed it for sure, it was better than nothing...but after doing all my fittings at a Major Venue with premium balls its HEADS above indoor fittings. 

 

What are all of your opinions' on this matter? Am I crazy? 

Largely agree with your points, especially if you have access to hit premium balls outdoors then there is no reason to do an indoor fit. I asked this question to the best player I know - my instructor (pro) who continues to qualify for RBC Canadian Open on tour most years...  My focus was on using range balls outdoors to see flight and avoid swinging all out on a sim vs indoors with gamer balls for more accurate numbers on launch monitors.

The response: "I take the clubs out on the course and see if the ball is hitting the proper trajectory I want" that's how he knew it was a good fit LOL

I realized it will not be possible to compare approaches with someone on another planet in terms of skill level and a sponsorship to get clubs to any spec they want 🤣

:ping-small: G425 MAX 9* Driver

:cobra-small: Baffler Rail-H 3H-4H

:touredgeexotics: CBX 119 16* 2 hyb

:callaway-small: APEX CF19 6-AW

INDI Wedges 52, 56, 60 

:odyssey-small: Stroke Lab Tuttle / :edel-golf-1: EAS 2.0

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  • 2 weeks later...

I’m of the opinion that “it depends.”

Indoor fittings absolutely have merit for all levels of players. It probably lends itself to the higher handicap players more than the better ball strikers though. Most high handicapers aren’t going to know much about turf interaction or how to tell a difference between good and bad. Great ball strikers should be able to feel it in either indoor or out, although real grass will be easier to tell. For some, hitting your gamer ball indoors is more important that hitting range balls outdoor.

We all like to see ball flights and they are usually very telling on how well a club is working. But technology today, especially GC4/Trackman are so good these days that the virtual flights are so close to real.

There are some places that actually combine indoor and outdoor. True Spec for example has the hitting area inside but the ball actually gets hit out an opening so they can see the ball flight. You don’t get the natural grass, but see the flight.

Ultimately it’s what each person wants to experience and what’s most important.

In My Sun Mountain C-130 'merica Cart Bag:
Driver: :taylormade-small: Stealth+ Rocket 3W, 13.5* turned down to 12.75*, Stiff :projectx: HZRDUS Smoke Red RDX, 75g
Fairway: :Sub70: 949x 3w, 15*, Stiff :projectx: HZRDUS Smoke Red RDX, 70g
Fairway: :Sub70: 949x 5w, 18*, Stiff :projectx: HZRDUS Smoke Blue RDX, 60g
Hybrid: :Sub70: 939x 4H (21*), Stiff :projectx: HZRDUS Smoke Black, 90g
Irons: :Takomo: 101's, 5-PW, :truetemper: DG120 S300
Wedges: :Sub70: 286 @ 50*, JBFG @ 54* & 60*, :truetemper: DG120 S300
Putter: :Sub70: 002 Mid-Mallet @ 35", Super Stroke Pistol GT 2.0, Desert Camo
Ball: :maxfli: Tour & Testing :OnCore: Vero X1
Technology: :ShotScope: H4 w/ Tags, Pro L2 Rangefinder

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5 hours ago, Shrek74 said:

Indoor fittings absolutely have merit for all levels of players. It probably lends itself to the higher handicap players more than the better ball strikers though. Most high handicapers aren’t going to know much about turf interaction or how to tell a difference between good and bad. Great ball strikers should be able to feel it in either indoor or out,

Fittings in general benefit the higher handicaps more than the lower because lower handicaps have the ability to adjust to equipment that isn’t a good fit easier and better than high handicaps. 

Most people regardless of handicap can tell when they hit one fat or thin based on sound and feel compared to hitting a good shot. The problem for some off mats is outdoor where they are focused on the ball flight and they overlook or ignore the sound and feel of a shot and only see the result and with mats a fat shot can produce a good result.

The downside to indoor fittings especially if a fitter doesn’t understand the affect the mat has on launch and spin they could get the golfer into the wrong setup for course play 

Driver: PXG 0811 X+ Proto w/UST Helium 5F4

Wood: TaylorMade M5 5W w/Accra TZ5 +1/2”, TaylorMade Sim 3W w/Aldila rogue white

Hybrid: PXG Gen2 22* w/AD hybrid

Irons: PXG Gen3 0311T w/Nippon modus 120

Wedges: TaylorMade MG2 50*, Tiger grind 56/60

Putter: Scotty Caemeron Super Rat1

Ball: Titleist Prov1

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10 hours ago, Shrek74 said:

I’m of the opinion that “it depends.”

Indoor fittings absolutely have merit for all levels of players. It probably lends itself to the higher handicap players more than the better ball strikers though. Most high handicapers aren’t going to know much about turf interaction or how to tell a difference between good and bad. Great ball strikers should be able to feel it in either indoor or out, although real grass will be easier to tell. For some, hitting your gamer ball indoors is more important that hitting range balls outdoor.

We all like to see ball flights and they are usually very telling on how well a club is working. But technology today, especially GC4/Trackman are so good these days that the virtual flights are so close to real.

There are some places that actually combine indoor and outdoor. True Spec for example has the hitting area inside but the ball actually gets hit out an opening so they can see the ball flight. You don’t get the natural grass, but see the flight.

Ultimately it’s what each person wants to experience and what’s most important.

I really like the ability to use your typical gamer ball with a Trackman or GC Quad outdoors for a fitting, but very few fitters have the capability to do this.  

So now I do my fittings (except wedges and putters) indoors using a GC Quad.  I really don’t like range balls for fittings, since the data is pretty useless.

:titelist-small:  TSR 3   9.0  GD Tour AD - DI 6S Stiff

:titelist-small:  TSi 3  15.0 GD Tour AD - DI 6S Stiff

:titelist-small: TS3  21 Hybrid Tensei AV Blue 65 HY Stiff

:titelist-small: U-510 19 Utility Iron HZDUS Smoke Black 6.0 Stiff

:Takomo:  5-PW 101T Irons - KBS Tour Lite Stiff - Official Tester 2023

:vokey-small: Vokey SM9 52 F - 12 Nippon NS Pro 950 Stiff

:vokey-small: Vokey Forged 56 M - 10  DG S200

:taylormade-small: MG3 60 - 12 NS Modus3 Tour 105 Stiff

image.gif.2bc8a27613a423a3721fd3b955802132.gif  Scotty Special Select - Squareback 2 - 35”  / Super Stroke Slim 3.0

 :srixon-small: Z-Star Diamond

 :titelist-small: Players 4 bag  image.png.939559f85230fe16347ecf2765438915.png

 :Arccos: Official Tester - 2021 & Loyal MCC Plus 4 Sensor User

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1 hour ago, KC Golf said:

I really like the ability to use your typical gamer ball with a Trackman or GC Quad outdoors for a fitting, but very few fitters have the capability to do this.  

So now I do my fittings (except wedges and putters) indoors using a GC Quad.  I really don’t like range balls for fittings, since the data is pretty useless.

The data isn’t useless. Trackman has the ability to optimize the ball which makes it equivalent to a prov1.

a good fitter understands the difference in spin and launch and use that information to determine what is happening with the ball flight and so on.

I have done multiple fittings with range balls that were new or newish and the fit produced similar results on the course. 

Driver: PXG 0811 X+ Proto w/UST Helium 5F4

Wood: TaylorMade M5 5W w/Accra TZ5 +1/2”, TaylorMade Sim 3W w/Aldila rogue white

Hybrid: PXG Gen2 22* w/AD hybrid

Irons: PXG Gen3 0311T w/Nippon modus 120

Wedges: TaylorMade MG2 50*, Tiger grind 56/60

Putter: Scotty Caemeron Super Rat1

Ball: Titleist Prov1

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