Leaving putts short

[z1ggy16]

I fell like it must be a mental thing - no matter what putter I use, I'm constantly leaving putts short. I recently moved to a Odyssey with one of the microhinge inserts to help with forward roll but I find that it feels very inconsistent. 

I've tried every kind of putter and when one thing solves one problem, it causes another. When I've used ultra high moi putters for example, it made my medium length putts much better but then lag putting got much worse.

Anyone here find a "universal" cure to habitually leaving putts short? 

[cnosil]

9 minutes ago, z1ggy16 said:

I fell like it must be a mental thing - no matter what putter I use, I'm constantly leaving putts short. I recently moved to a Odyssey with one of the microhinge inserts to help with forward roll but I find that it feels very inconsistent. 

I've tried every kind of putter and when one thing solves one problem, it causes another. When I've used ultra high moi putters for example, it made my medium length putts much better but then lag putting got much worse.

Anyone here find a "universal" cure to habitually leaving putts short? 

When putting you will have putts that are short and putts that are long;  it is called dispersion.  It actually isn't ideal to hit every ball past the hole.  How short is short?  getting balls within 10% short or long of the hole is really good distance control.   Set a goal to get your lags within 3 feet of the hole;  basically a 6 foot circle. 

How do you control distance?  Longer stroke or faster rhythm with same stroke length?  How do you practice your distance control?

 

[z1ggy16]

26 minutes ago, cnosil said:

When putting you will have putts that are short and putts that are long;  it is called dispersion.  It actually isn't ideal to hit every ball past the hole.  How short is short?  getting balls within 10% short or long of the hole is really good distance control.   Set a goal to get your lags within 3 feet of the hole;  basically a 6 foot circle. 

How do you control distance?  Longer stroke or faster rhythm with same stroke length?  How do you practice your distance control?

 

Longer stroke usually, but it's not something I think about to be honest. 

 

Practice comes mostly right before I play... Lately I've been going to different courses with different green designs and speeds but the majority of the time I'm short. I do use Arccos but I don't think it will know things like dispersion or my % of putts that are long or short.

According to the app I'm actually best at putting but I think most players would be better putters than iron players except for the much better players.

[cnosil]

16 minutes ago, z1ggy16 said:

Longer stroke usually, but it's not something I think about to be honest. 

 

Practice comes mostly right before I play... Lately I've been going to different courses with different green designs and speeds but the majority of the time I'm short. I do use Arccos but I don't think it will know things like dispersion or my % of putts that are long or short.

According to the app I'm actually best at putting but I think most players would be better putters than iron players except for the much better players.

Sounds like you need to practice.  Speed control is not something that you are just good at and you have to build the skills to adapt to different speed greens.   

[alfriday101]

How you read your putts can lead you to leave balls short.  Golfers who only read the putt from behind are more prone to leave putts short.  

In "The Lost Art of Putting" Nichol and Morris, 2018, the authors emphasize the need to look at all putts from the low side.  p. 114ff.  "You will see the full picture if you stand far enough back to see both your ball and the hole in your peripheral vision.  You will see the full length of the putt."  p. 114.  Only reading the put from behind foreshortens the putt and the golfer tends to leave the putts short.  

 

[Shapotomous]

What does your putting strike look like?  Do you de-celerate when putting or accelerate through the ball?

[z1ggy16]

8 minutes ago, cnosil said:

Sounds like you need to practice.  Speed control is not something that you are just good at and you have to build the skills to adapt to different speed greens.   

I don't disagree 

 

17 minutes ago, alfriday101 said:

How you read your putts can lead you to leave balls short.  Golfers who only read the putt from behind are more prone to leave putts short.  

In "The Lost Art of Putting" Nichol and Morris, 2018, the authors emphasize the need to look at all putts from the low side.  p. 114ff.  "You will see the full picture if you stand far enough back to see both your ball and the hole in your peripheral vision.  You will see the full length of the putt."  p. 114.  Only reading the put from behind foreshortens the putt and the golfer tends to leave the putts short.  

 

That's pretty interesting. is this to tell if it's more uphill or not? What's weird is I'll even leave down hill putts short, which is why maube why i thought it was mental, too.

[z1ggy16]

13 minutes ago, Shapotomous said:

What does your putting strike look like?  Do you de-celerate when putting or accelerate through the ball?

I'm not sure but when I see Quintic related info online, I feel like I recall that you really don't want to be either. I tend to have a pretty deliberate and slow stroke. I tend to find softer putter shafts feel better for me... I've tried really stiff graphite and steel and did not like it. I use a fxp200 graphite shaft which is said to be a bit softer than most steel shafts.

[alfriday101]

The point that Nichol and Morris make is that looking at the putt only from behind the ball "foreshortens" the putt--i.e. the putt appears shorter than it actually is.  So it doesn't matter whether the putt is uphill, downhill or flat--your brain registers the putt as shorter than it actually is.   

 

Looking at the putt from the low side, and being far enough from the line to see both the hole and the ball in your vision, counteracts the foreshortening and you are able to accurately judge the distance.  

 

This worked for me.  When practicing on a putting matt with known distances, I would rarely leave a putt short.  But on the course, I consistently left putts just short of the hole.  I tried picking a target beyond the hole, but that lead to a bigger dispersion.  Once I incorporated looking at the whole putt from the low side, I started getting more balls to the hole.   

[cnosil]

26 minutes ago, alfriday101 said:

The point that Nichol and Morris make is that looking at the putt only from behind the ball "foreshortens" the putt--i.e. the putt appears shorter than it actually is.  So it doesn't matter whether the putt is uphill, downhill or flat--your brain registers the putt as shorter than it actually is.   

 

Looking at the putt from the low side, and being far enough from the line to see both the hole and the ball in your vision, counteracts the foreshortening and you are able to accurately judge the distance.  

 

This worked for me.  When practicing on a putting matt with known distances, I would rarely leave a putt short.  But on the course, I consistently left putts just short of the hole.  I tried picking a target beyond the hole, but that lead to a bigger dispersion.  Once I incorporated looking at the whole putt from the low side, I started getting more balls to the hole.   

Could also look at Craig Farnsworth book the Putting Prescription; he provides some tests that help you dial in the correct perception of distance.    He discusses it on the blog portion of his website: https://www.puttdoctor.com/my-blogs

 

[alfriday101]

19 minutes ago, cnosil said:

Could also look at Craig Farnsworth book the Putting Prescription; he provides some tests that help you dial in the correct perception of distance.    He discusses it on the blog portion of his website: https://www.puttdoctor.com/my-blogs

 

Thanks for the recommendation.  I just read the preview part on Amazon and decided to order the Kindle version of the book.  Thanks.  

[Blueberry_Squishie]

Along with other stuff suggested, I would suggest having an evaluation where the fitter can accurately determine the quality of the roll you put on the ball. Your stroke may have a quality where no matter what putter you choose and what face technology it has, it won't have a good starting roll. Having poor starting roll will make distance control more difficult than it needs to be. A good fitter will be able to eliminate this as a contributing factor or adjust the loft etc. on a putter to make sure it isn't.

[z1ggy16]

8 hours ago, Blueberry_Squishie said:

Along with other stuff suggested, I would suggest having an evaluation where the fitter can accurately determine the quality of the roll you put on the ball. Your stroke may have a quality where no matter what putter you choose and what face technology it has, it won't have a good starting roll. Having poor starting roll will make distance control more difficult than it needs to be. A good fitter will be able to eliminate this as a contributing factor or adjust the loft etc. on a putter to make sure it isn't.

I plan to get fit... Probably won't be until next spring though. I want to make sure all the new Odyssey stuff is out and I'm trying to make my way to a Quintic or even gcq. I think SAM is fine but I don't think it gives things like fwd roll start distance and actual launch (just a prediction). 

[cnosil]

28 minutes ago, z1ggy16 said:

 I think SAM is fine but I don't think it gives things like fwd roll start distance and actual launch (just a prediction). 

Quintic measures the ball and SAM measures the putter.   

[z1ggy16]

49 minutes ago, cnosil said:

Quintic measures the ball and SAM measures the putter.   

Right... And I feel like what the ball does directly is pretty important. Part of my issue could be improper launch or skidding on top of constantly under estimating distance.

[RickyBobby_PR]

19 minutes ago, z1ggy16 said:

Right... And I feel like what the ball does directly is pretty important. Part of my issue could be improper launch or skidding on top of constantly under estimating distance.

The launch and skidding coming from how the putter is delivered. Theres pros and cons to each system but imo it’s better to understand what your stroke is doing and have a putter fit to that. By doing so you will get better ball contact and less skidding.

 

[cnosil]

41 minutes ago, z1ggy16 said:

Right... And I feel like what the ball does directly is pretty important. Part of my issue could be improper launch or skidding on top of constantly under estimating distance.

That’s always an interesting assessment.   You don’t really want to hit the ball into the ground or launch it with backspin,  consistency if greens also plays a roll here (you indicated you play differing speeds),  slower greens generally need a little more launch to get the ball out if a deeper depression.  The ball is going to skid and bounce; you can use slo-mod video on your phone to see the launch, bounce, and skid. 
 

The other thing to look at is impact location, as putts get longer we tend to miss the center more which reduces ball speed.   

[z1ggy16]

6 minutes ago, cnosil said:

That’s always an interesting assessment.   You don’t really want to hit the ball into the ground or launch it with backspin,  consistency if greens also plays a roll here (you indicated you play differing speeds),  slower greens generally need a little more launch to get the ball out if a deeper depression.  The ball is going to skid and bounce; you can use slo-mod video on your phone to see the launch, bounce, and skid. 
 

The other thing to look at is impact location, as putts get longer we tend to miss the center more which reduces ball speed.   

I have a few different putters but maybe I should stick to one regardless of green. I play some VERY slow bent grass, maybe rolling 6-7, then some others which are either poa or maybe even fescue? Not sure if there's fescue that can get that short... But anyway, it is very fast compared to the slow greens, probably a 10 or so. 

It's funny because I actually played at Dunes Club this year (will host a Tour event next May) and greens were verified 11-11.5 that day and it was the best I've put in my life. Of course I missed a 8ft putt on 18 for a par to shoot 79

 

[cnosil]

10 minutes ago, z1ggy16 said:

I have a few different putters but maybe I should stick to one regardless of green. I play some VERY slow bent grass, maybe rolling 6-7, then some others which are either poa or maybe even fescue? Not sure if there's fescue that can get that short... But anyway, it is very fast compared to the slow greens, probably a 10 or so. 

It's funny because I actually played at Dunes Club this year (will host a Tour event next May) and greens were verified 11-11.5 that day and it was the best I've put in my life. Of course I missed a 8ft putt on 18 for a par to shoot 79

 

 

I switch putters a lot simply because I like to try different putters. I’d recommend against switching putter based on course conditions and focus on learning how to control speed better.    When playing courses that are that variable it is good to have a baseline putt or set of putts to compare to the days greens speeds so you know how to adapt.   like you I find slow greens tough, it is just hard to make as big of a stroke as you need to make the ball roll the necessary distance.  
 

You describe yourself as a better putter than your handicap so maybe you don’t need to change anything,   Statistically, It is actually bad to hit every putt past the hole.  I’d look at what your patterns are and it may be that your dispersion is fine but you mentally remember the short putts because of the notion that leaving putts short is bad.   

[z1ggy16]

22 minutes ago, cnosil said:

I switch putters a lot simply because I like to try different putters. I’d recommend against switching putter based on course conditions and focus on learning how to control speed better.    When playing courses that are that variable it is good to have a baseline putt or set of putts to compare to the days greens speeds so you know how to adapt.   like you I find slow greens tough, it is just hard to make as big of a stroke as you need to make the ball roll the necessary distance.  
 

You describe yourself as a better putter than your handicap so maybe you don’t need to change anything,   Statistically, It is actually bad to hit every putt past the hole.  I’d look at what your patterns are and it may be that your dispersion is fine but you mentally remember the short putts because of the notion that leaving putts short is bad.   

Yeah I tend to take my lighter blade on fast greens and my heavier mallet on the slow ones... If I get fit I will just stick to one but I'll mention these conditions.

I will start writing down each putt if it's short or long and by how much. I'm data driven so I'll toss this into excel and take a look after I get 5 rounds worth of data.

 

We are coming into winter season here...I still play but less frequently. It does snow so who knows how much I'll play between now and spring. Sometimes I can get 5-6 winter rounds in... Other years it's 0.