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Face shaving (.... your driver, that is!)


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#1 Moecat

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Posted 29 September 2010 - 06:08 PM

Anyone here ever try it?

http://www.worldshot...-p/whd-dshv.htm

Our Process

Our process involves re machining the face of the driver or fairway wood to that particular club's own ideal thickness. This is performed with the use of a CNC machine that allows us to program the outline of the club face to maintain the original curvature while it is being re-machined. The club face will then be polished to match its original finish. All of the work is performed on the outside of the club. Some clubs may lose the grooving in the center portion of the club as seen in some of the pictures. This is not a problem and is most often even advantageous. This is due to the fact that the grooves produce spin, which is counter-productive to roll and distance. The average clubface will have approximately 10% of its thickness removed. Since most club faces use Variable Face Thickness technology the center portion of the club is usually thicker than around the edges. This is why the grooves are sometimes removed from the center portions of the club and not all the way out to the edges. For example, a Taylormade R9 460 measures 3.05 MM in the center of the club while the toe and heel measure 2.30 MM. Removing 10% of the material in the center of the face would result in .305 MM being removed while the toe and heel would lose .230 MM. The average groove depth is .30 MM so those portions in the center areas will lose more of their grooving than the outer areas.

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Durability

You will notice that clubs with thinner faces will have less durability. That is the trade off, but it is well worth the added performance to most golfers. We do guarantee not to damage or break your club while we are working on it, but cannot guarantee the durability of it afterwords. You will be able to select your desired shaving level when you order our service. We suggest .880 COR for most golfers as that will give the best blend of performance and durability. .890 COR may be acceptable for those with a swing speed under 100 and .900 COR should be reserved for those players with swing speeds under 90. Clubs with lesser degrees of loft ie 8 to 9 are going to sustain more pressure upon impact than a higher lofted club also simply due to the angle of impact. A flexible shaft will also allow for a higher COR shaving level


Types of Clubs

We can improve the performance on pretty much any USGA conforming driver or fairway wood, but obviously the higher quality drivers will respond the best. We can normally blend any polished metal face driver very close to its original stock finish. Black coated surfaces, clubs with etched finishes or logos, and composite faced drivers may obviously change in appearance. It is not a problem if the crown material wraps over onto the top of the face. We can program to avoid contacting that area.
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#2 MyGolfSpy

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Posted 29 September 2010 - 06:13 PM

Many pros heads used to be shaved to non-conforming levels...this was years ago but have not heard much about it lately.

Have never seen this site before though Moe...GREAT FIND!

Email sent to the company to find out more info :lol:

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#3 Moecat

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Posted 29 September 2010 - 06:21 PM

Would you believe that I only found out about it while searching on Ebay for Ping drivers?!?! :lol:
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#4 MyGolfSpy

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Posted 29 September 2010 - 06:27 PM

Yeah sounds like the same guys that we sent bats to for softball. Seems like they made a name for themselves on EBAY.

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#5 MyGolfSpy

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Posted 29 September 2010 - 07:49 PM

Just got off the phone with them Moe...sounds interesting but we want to get some data from them before we post anything. But this might be a hit for them...definitely was in the baseball and softball industry.

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#6 Moecat

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Posted 29 September 2010 - 07:58 PM

What I've been told is that one doesn't see any real benefit when comparing a .860 illegal driver against a legal .830 driver. But I do wonder if the data do show anything significant at .880....
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#7 MyGolfSpy

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Posted 29 September 2010 - 08:11 PM

Correct Moe...but from past results that were confirmed at least over the phone by them is that going to .880 gains 15 yards. I want to get testing for going to .900 as well. They also said that spin rates and launch angles were not effected in the least. Have to wait and see.

What I've been told is that one doesn't see any real benefit when comparing a .860 illegal driver against a legal .830 driver. But I do wonder if the data do show anything significant at .880....


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#8 Moecat

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Posted 29 September 2010 - 09:27 PM

Some interesting retorts by a component club manufacturer:

Our Process

Our process involves re machining the face of the driver or fairway wood to that particular club's own ideal thickness.
First off... the face of the driver is NOT machined once, so "re machining" is poorly worded. Faced are forged or sometimes ( not nearly as often) cast. And how does this website author claim to evidently "know" the clubs "ideal thickness"?????


Some clubs may lose the grooving in the center portion of the club as seen in some of the pictures. This is not a problem and is most often even advantageous. This is due to the fact that the grooves produce spin,
Ummmm, no they really do not. As virtually all of my drivers have been grooveless since 2002, I can tell you that grooves have proven negligible results at best in reference to spin. Grooves only remove debris and water in this case.

...which is counter-productive to roll and distance.
Also an incorrect blanket statement! Most players actually need MORE spin to keep the ball aloft.

The average clubface will have approximately 10% of its thickness removed.
Interesting, as clubfaces start off raw at 3mm and are sanded, grinded and polished down less than 3mm to final spec. I cannot imagine a clubhead losing 10% when it actually starts at 2.88mm thick.

Since most club faces use Variable Face Thickness technology the center portion of the club is usually thicker than around the edges.
"Usually" in this sentence appears dangerous.

This is why the grooves are sometimes removed from the center portions of the club and not all the way out to the edges.
Incorrect again. It is done on production clubs mostly for aesthetic reasons and secondly for traditional reasons.

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Durability

A flexible shaft will also allow for a higher COR shaving level
???????? How is that exactly? So I have a 105 driver swingspeed, but have actually used "L" flex for the past 20 years......


Types of Clubs

We can improve the performance on pretty much any USGA conforming driver or fairway wood,
But it won't work on a clubhead that currentl is non-conforming??? I mean.... shaving is shaving, you could just shave less on a club that already exceeded the USGA rules... why limit your customer base with this nutty statement? To say nothing of the fact that LEGAL clubs NOT submitted to the USGA are clearly NOT on the USGA approved list...... where do they fall in the "available to be shaved process"?

...but obviously the higher quality drivers will respond the best.
???????? When, EXACTLY does the USGA approved list quantify QUALITY? It doesn't seem so "obvious" to me at all!

We can normally blend any polished metal face driver very close to its original stock finish. It is not a problem if the crown material wraps over onto the top of the face.
O.K. here is where the idiocy ends for me. There is not a clubhead made on this planet that the CROWN MATERIAL "wraps over onto the top of the face" this guy doesn't know how clubheads are made, but evidently is trying like he** to sell a service based upon his "knowledge"


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#9 Matt Saternus

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Posted 30 September 2010 - 02:04 AM

I would love to see an MGS test of this service. Particularly, I'd be interested to know how many swings are needed before you crack the driver face. Not sure if I'm in the minority here, but 15 more yards is not worth it if it means that I'm going to be buying a new driver twice a season (or even once a year, for me).

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#10 RookieBlue7

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Posted 30 September 2010 - 02:19 AM

The only thing I worry about is the same thing I saw with shaving softball bats. Premature failure. Driver faces are already designed as thin as possible and this only makes them thinner. The impact between a golfball and a driver head is a violent collision, at a higher speed than a softball bat and ball. These are much thinner than a softball bat already, and the golfball is as hard or harder than a softball. I'm betting on these lasting about like a softball bat or slightly less time, which for softball bats for me was around 250 swings, or 1/2 of a season max (we used to play league on 2 teams 3 nights a week and tournaments every weekend). We tried it for a while, but the advent of composite softball bats made the shaving obsolete. Composite faced drivers aren't in the future that I forsee, but I still don't know that I'd want to void the warranty on a brand new driver and have it fail prematurely. I also doubt these guys have any type of engineering degree or anything like that that allows them to figure anything that would lead to longevity. Knowing some softball bat shaving artists, I'm betting these are guys on a mill that are just programming it or manually milling micrometers off of the face. The softball bats were done in a CNC lathe, or the guys I know that did them were doing it with that method. You can't lathe a driver head, but you can put it on a mill. Would I do it? No, because I pride myself in playing by the rules and I value my equipment too much to destroy it.

In The Bag
Driver: TaylorMade SLDR 430 12* (w/ toe screw) w/ Project X Handcrafted LZ16 
Strong 3 wood: Taylormade SLDR TS 13* with Aldila NV 75X
3 Hybrid: Adams Super LSP 18* (bent to 17*) w/ KBS Tour Hybrid S flex tipped 1/2"
4 Hybrid: Adams Super LSP 20* (bent to 21*) w/ KBS Tour Hybrid S flex tipped 1/2"
5-7I : Tour Issued Adams CB2 w/ Dynamic Gold Tour issue S400 hardstepped 1x
8-GW: Tour Issued Adams CB1 w/ Dynamic Gold S400 hardstepped 1x

SW: 56* Cleveland CG12 (CC grooves) w/ Dynamic Gold Spinner
LW: 60* Cleveland CG12 (CC grooves) w/ Dynamic Gold Spinner
Putter: Mannkrafted Widebody Rattler 34", 71* lie, 4* loft

Have a ton of back-ups in all categories, but there are always 14 clubs in the bag that differ depending on the course and set-up. Bomb and gouge. Yes, I'm a club gigolo.


#11 Justin66

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Posted 03 October 2010 - 04:41 AM

I would love to see an MGS test of this service. Particularly, I'd be interested to know how many swings are needed before you crack the driver face. Not sure if I'm in the minority here, but 15 more yards is not worth it if it means that I'm going to be buying a new driver twice a season (or even once a year, for me).


If you're in the minority, I'm right there with you... I also agree whole-heartedly with the "added 15 yards - buying two drivers/year = unhappy Justin (well, in my personal case)" equation.

The only thing I worry about is the same thing I saw with shaving softball bats. Premature failure. Driver faces are already designed as thin as possible and this only makes them thinner. The impact between a golfball and a driver head is a violent collision, at a higher speed than a softball bat and ball. These are much thinner than a softball bat already, and the golfball is as hard or harder than a softball. I'm betting on these lasting about like a softball bat or slightly less time, which for softball bats for me was around 250 swings, or 1/2 of a season max (we used to play league on 2 teams 3 nights a week and tournaments every weekend). We tried it for a while, but the advent of composite softball bats made the shaving obsolete. Composite faced drivers aren't in the future that I forsee, but I still don't know that I'd want to void the warranty on a brand new driver and have it fail prematurely. I also doubt these guys have any type of engineering degree or anything like that that allows them to figure anything that would lead to longevity. Knowing some softball bat shaving artists, I'm betting these are guys on a mill that are just programming it or manually milling micrometers off of the face. The softball bats were done in a CNC lathe, or the guys I know that did them were doing it with that method. You can't lathe a driver head, but you can put it on a mill. Would I do it? No, because I pride myself in playing by the rules and I value my equipment too much to destroy it.


Bingo, RB7.

The retort is also correct about grooves on a driver- they are negligible. The loft is the biggest determining factor in backspin... it was also proven to be true with wedges, as well (it's in another thread). It's the same with buying those 540cc John Daly drivers... why? It's non-conforming. Also, why would you want to be 15 yards FURTHER into the weeds? Why cheat for more yards when a person could just get properly fitted and take some lessons?

#12 Justin66

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Posted 03 October 2010 - 04:45 AM

Many pros heads used to be shaved to non-conforming levels...this was years ago but have not heard much about it lately.


This was done predominately when drivers were <220cc's and made of 431 stainless steel. This practice died for good when the .83 COR Rule was initiated in 2002.

#13 Justin66

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Posted 03 October 2010 - 04:52 AM

Correct Moe...but from past results that were confirmed at least over the phone by them is that going to .880 gains 15 yards. I want to get testing for going to .900 as well. They also said that spin rates and launch angles were not effected in the least. Have to wait and see.



They're changing the trampoline effect of the driver's face- not the loft, CG location, vertical roll or horizontal bulge. That's why everyting else stays consistent. The ball and the face both cave in at impact- it's the rebound of each that generates the initial velocity (and overall distance) of the ball. If the face were able to rebound more than the .83 it's currently allowed, you will definitely get longer drives.

Upon further review, I should've used a second multiquote... I have to quit jumpping the gun; start taking my time on these things LOL.

#14 xxio

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Posted 04 October 2010 - 04:42 AM

Any of you guys remember that "TW" guy on 4gea that sold driver face shaving and Merit blades as if they were the best things on the planet....circa 2000 I would say.

TW were his real initials. He was not Tiger Woods or Tom Wishon though. I almost bought a set of those (overpriced) Merit blades from him back them.

#15 RookieBlue7

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Posted 06 October 2010 - 02:28 AM

Hey, Merit did make some great sticks, don't know about his. I wished I could've gotten my hands on my friend that was killed in a car accident's Merits he got from his grandfather. I'd have reshafted them, but they were a great set of clubs.

In The Bag
Driver: TaylorMade SLDR 430 12* (w/ toe screw) w/ Project X Handcrafted LZ16 
Strong 3 wood: Taylormade SLDR TS 13* with Aldila NV 75X
3 Hybrid: Adams Super LSP 18* (bent to 17*) w/ KBS Tour Hybrid S flex tipped 1/2"
4 Hybrid: Adams Super LSP 20* (bent to 21*) w/ KBS Tour Hybrid S flex tipped 1/2"
5-7I : Tour Issued Adams CB2 w/ Dynamic Gold Tour issue S400 hardstepped 1x
8-GW: Tour Issued Adams CB1 w/ Dynamic Gold S400 hardstepped 1x

SW: 56* Cleveland CG12 (CC grooves) w/ Dynamic Gold Spinner
LW: 60* Cleveland CG12 (CC grooves) w/ Dynamic Gold Spinner
Putter: Mannkrafted Widebody Rattler 34", 71* lie, 4* loft

Have a ton of back-ups in all categories, but there are always 14 clubs in the bag that differ depending on the course and set-up. Bomb and gouge. Yes, I'm a club gigolo.





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