Accelerating Through The Ball

[RoverRick]

A Tale of Two Golfers!

 

It was the best of times, it was the worst of times, it was the age of wisdom, it was the age of foolishness, it was the epoch of belief, it was the epoch of incredulity, it was the season of Light, it was the season of Darkness, it was the spring of hope, it was the winter of despair....

 

Okay, perhaps it was not quite that dramatic but as I have stated, I went to the Four Magic Moves golf swing. I tried this several years ago and had poor results, but tried it again on my first time out after a 15 month absence out of desperation. It was working well for me but the last point seemed counter intuitive.

 

Quick review of the Four Magic Moves.

1. Start the swing with an early backwards wrist break. Left wrist is bowed and right wrist is cupped. This is the position DJ is in at the top of the swing.
2. Turn the shoulders to the top.
3. Begin the down swing with a forward hip slide.
4. Make no effort to accelerate the club with the hands. (Actually try to hold off releasing the club at all.)

This last point is what I am want to discuss here.

 

First off, I was improving and making great strides to getting back to my previous handicap. Then a week ago I was playing in a Couples Scramble with my wife and absolutely crushed a drive that was measured as 282 in the fairway, and was in first place. (Until a 14 year old kid went passed me and everyone else by 15 yards. Lots of longer drives, just not in the fairway.

 

So anyway, I got all excited and began to add power with my hands like I thought I did on my monster drive. Soon, I was having to adjust my ball position, then because that was out of place I had to sway back to come in at the right angle, then ....

 

It all culminated Saturday morning. I could not drive the ball. low hooks of the heel of the club. I could not hit irons, high hooks once 60 yards left of the green with 9 iron. No distance control with the wedges, and the putter was still okay. I made 5 long bogey and double bogey saving putts to shoot a 97. The worst round since I started back.

 

Then while we were settling the bets, easy for me because I was not going to win anything, I read over my swing notes I keep on my iPhone to refresh my memory and swing-thoughts. Then after that I went to the range then 9 more holes and got better.

 

Last night, I Googled Accelerating though the ball and came across this jewel.

 

Tutelman Accelerating through the ball.

 

Basically, he says the same thing, but uses physics to explain why not to do it. The jest of the piece is that yes, you can add power to the swing with the hands, but not enough to measure and you are more likely to do harm if the timing is not perfect.

 

I may well have "added power with my hands" that one time, but not enough to make a difference. I do know that continuing to try this caused me major issues that continued to grow until my whole swing fell apart. Having the notes helped me get back on track and then this article.

 

Today, I made an effort to not release the club with my hands. This is impossible, but I held the wrist position as late as possible. While I did forget and made some bad swings leading to 3 double bogies, I did had a great day of ball striking and had 11 GIR's and shot a 79. A complete reversal of the score from Saturday.

 

So Topic for discussion:

 

Do you think you add power with your hands? OR do you hold off releasing the club as long as possible?

 

I know that on my longest and straightest drives today I felt like I still had the wrist cock at impact. Which I probably did not but it felt that way.

 

 

 

 

[GB13]

I hit my best shots when I hold off releasing the club. I just can't always convince that it makes the ball fly better. It always feels to me when I hold off the club that it would be a giant push but it always flys well.

 

P.S. I am glad you are getting a good swing back.

[RickyBobby_PR]

The release of the club isn't something I focus on. If I make a good turn and don't rush my right side everything works in sequence the way it's supposed to. That's really all I try to focus on

[RoverRick]

P.S. I am glad you are getting a good swing back.

At the turn and again on the 12th hole yesterday I considered leaving the course and coming home to organize the garage or a closet or something more fun than finishing that round. My back is still sore from all the torture I put my body through with that swing.

 

 

Sent from my iPad using MyGolfSpy

[BIG STU]

A Tale of Two Golfers!

 

It was the best of times, it was the worst of times, it was the age of wisdom, it was the age of foolishness, it was the epoch of belief, it was the epoch of incredulity, it was the season of Light, it was the season of Darkness, it was the spring of hope, it was the winter of despair....

 

Okay, perhaps it was not quite that dramatic but as I have stated, I went to the Four Magic Moves golf swing. I tried this several years ago and had poor results, but tried it again on my first time out after a 15 month absence out of desperation. It was working well for me but the last point seemed counter intuitive.

 

Quick review of the Four Magic Moves.

1. Start the swing with an early backwards wrist break. Left wrist is bowed and right wrist is cupped. This is the position DJ is in at the top of the swing.
2. Turn the shoulders to the top.
3. Begin the down swing with a forward hip slide.
4. Make no effort to accelerate the club with the hands. (Actually try to hold off releasing the club at all.)

This last point is what I am want to discuss here.

 

First off, I was improving and making great strides to getting back to my previous handicap. Then a week ago I was playing in a Couples Scramble with my wife and absolutely crushed a drive that was measured as 282 in the fairway, and was in first place. (Until a 14 year old kid went passed me and everyone else by 15 yards. Lots of longer drives, just not in the fairway.

 

So anyway, I got all excited and began to add power with my hands like I thought I did on my monster drive. Soon, I was having to adjust my ball position, then because that was out of place I had to sway back to come in at the right angle, then ....

 

It all culminated Saturday morning. I could not drive the ball. low hooks of the heel of the club. I could not hit irons, high hooks once 60 yards left of the green with 9 iron. No distance control with the wedges, and the putter was still okay. I made 5 long bogey and double bogey saving putts to shoot a 97. The worst round since I started back.

 

Then while we were settling the bets, easy for me because I was not going to win anything, I read over my swing notes I keep on my iPhone to refresh my memory and swing-thoughts. Then after that I went to the range then 9 more holes and got better.

 

Last night, I Googled Accelerating though the ball and came across this jewel.

 

Tutelman Accelerating through the ball.

 

Basically, he says the same thing, but uses physics to explain why not to do it. The jest of the piece is that yes, you can add power to the swing with the hands, but not enough to measure and you are more likely to do harm if the timing is not perfect.

 

I may well have "added power with my hands" that one time, but not enough to make a difference. I do know that continuing to try this caused me major issues that continued to grow until my whole swing fell apart. Having the notes helped me get back on track and then this article.

 

Today, I made an effort to not release the club with my hands. This is impossible, but I held the wrist position as late as possible. While I did forget and made some bad swings leading to 3 double bogies, I did had a great day of ball striking and had 11 GIR's and shot a 79. A complete reversal of the score from Saturday.

 

So Topic for discussion:

 

Do you think you add power with your hands? OR do you hold off releasing the club as long as possible?

 

I know that on my longest and straightest drives today I felt like I still had the wrist cock at impact. Which I probably did not but it felt that way.

  Rick please tell me you are not going mechanical on us--- I not only instinct putt but I instinct golf too------ OHHHH NOOO MR RICK

[DaveP043]

 

Do you think you add power with your hands? OR do you hold off releasing the club as long as possible?

 

I know that on my longest and straightest drives today I felt like I still had the wrist cock at impact. Which I probably did not but it felt that way.

There's no question that you add velocity to the clubhead by releasing the "lag".  I know I've seen studies of good golfers that show hip and shoulder rotation slow and almost stop prior to impact, while the clubhead keeps accelerating.  Obviously that acceleration comes from something, and the only thing it can come from is arm rotation and lag release.  However, its probably a bad thing for most of us to THINK about providing force with the arms and hands.  For most of us, those thoughts lead to over-the-top moves, or flipping the club through.  You already said it,you feel something that you know isn't accurate, yet its happening on swings that produce good results.  If a feel works for you, use it.

 

Personally, I try never to think about mechanics like these during real swings.  After a good set up and backswing, I just want to start my forward swing with hip rotation, and hit the ball.  There's no time for me to worry about lag or sequencing or anything else.

[RoverRick]

  Rick please tell me you are not going mechanical on us--- I not only instinct putt but I instinct golf too------ OHHHH NOOO MR RICK

 

I am very mechanical while sitting at home. I play my best golf when not thinking about the swing.

 

However, I have been reading the physics of the golf swing, and what I am finding is that adding power with the hands is a myth that is actually detrimental to the golf swing. Knowing this will (should) help me in not trying to add power and ruining my good swing.

 

I have found numerous places that say cocking the wrist as much as possible and holding this wrist cock as long as possible is advantageous. I know I had this feeling Sunday and really struck the ball well.

[RoverRick]

There's no question that you add velocity to the clubhead by releasing the "lag".  I know I've seen studies of good golfers that show hip and shoulder rotation slow and almost stop prior to impact, while the clubhead keeps accelerating.  Obviously that acceleration comes from something, and the only thing it can come from is arm rotation and lag release.  However, its probably a bad thing for most of us to THINK about providing force with the arms and hands.  For most of us, those thoughts lead to over-the-top moves, or flipping the club through.  You already said it,you feel something that you know isn't accurate, yet its happening on swings that produce good results.  If a feel works for you, use it.

 

Personally, I try never to think about mechanics like these during real swings.  After a good set up and backswing, I just want to start my forward swing with hip rotation, and hit the ball.  There's no time for me to worry about lag or sequencing or anything else.

 

You can't actually not release the club, and if timing is perfect you can add a yard or so by intending to add power. But from my studies and personal experience it does more harm than good because the timing is critical and you generally lose power a long with getting total out of shape with the swing.

 

I didn't mention this but I actually hurt my back getting out of sequence and then that snowballed from there.

[russtopherb]

The release of the club isn't something I focus on. If I make a good turn and don't rush my right side everything works in sequence the way it's supposed to. That's really all I try to focus on

 

Same. I got myself into so much trouble for a long time thinking I had to do things with my hands to make the clubhead go faster. Lessons with a good pro finally saved me from that. The only thing with my hands is I need to think about them staying inside on the way down, and not shooting them out at the ball. 

[Nmrfgomes]

Up until 2 months ago i didn't even had a driver. Once i got one i tried hitting it with poor results. This guy who plays with me ( he´s an old Pro who started playing when Golf appeared in Portugal ) taught me that movement, yet he told me to accelerated with the wrist for the simple point of not slicing the ball, not to add power, just to keep a straight club face through impact. It works for me, every time i don´t i hit far right of the fairway.

[RoverRick]

Quick review of the Four Magic Moves.

1. Start the swing with an early backwards wrist break. Left wrist is bowed and right wrist is cupped. This is the position DJ is in at the top of the swing.
2. Turn the shoulders to the top.
3. Begin the down swing with a forward hip slide.
4. Make no effort to accelerate the club with the hands. (Actually try to hold off releasing the club at all.)

This last point is what I am want to discuss here.

 

I'm going to jack this thread a little bit. I am on the verge of abandoning this swing. Not the late release. I am now convinced about that using the hands only creates the illusion of more power.

 

This is a great swing and easy to teach a beginner and someone younger than me without the miles on them that I have. It creates a very powerful delivery with a square clubface straight into the ball. There is no timing issues to speak of. Just follow these four basic moves.

 

The main reason I have been having trouble is that the hip slide hurts my back. Because of this, lack of hip slide, I have been trying to add power with the hands, so the combinations lack of hip slide and adding power violates 2 of the 4 moves and does not add up to a good golf swing. The results are either a weak shot or a powerful hook that can travel up to 60 yards left.

 

I played 27 holes each of the last 2 days and played 10 days out of the last 2 weeks, and it's always the same story. Even after spending ample time trying to loosen up on the range, I can barely swing the first 4 holes, then play great for 10 or 11 holes and then my back flares up again and can no longer get through the ball. Occasionally, I can put together 18 holes, and one day I played 27 holes fairly well, but its been a struggle.

 

Turning back and through do not hurt my back, so I will going back to my Steve Stricker like swing I had before, which has more of a body reacting to the swinging of the arms. It is not as "effortless power swing" as the 4MM but it has some advantages.

 

The number 1 advantage is it doesn't hurt. However, with the 4MM I have two ball flights. A draw and a hook. Today, I had 2 times when I absolutely had to hit a fade. There is also one hole on our course where I have to fade the second shot. This hole is under repair, getting new teeboxes making it a 600 yard par 5. So it's playing as a driveable par 4 right now, and the teeshot has to be a fade with OB left. So I needed it 3 times in one round. The first time, I simply hooked it OB and the other two times, I had to lay up.

 

Before, I had really good control and could hit fades or draws on demand. I miss this. I went with the 4MM swing because instead of going to the range the first time out after 15 months off, I was spraying it all over the course for the first 2 holes. I remembered the 4MM from reading it and trying it several years ago and gave it a shot. This worked great, the first day. A week later I tried it again, and still awesome results. If I played 9 holes with a few days rest between them its not an issue. Other than no fades.

 

I stuck with this so long because for 6 weeks I was injured and not making full swings so for the majority of that time, I was concerned about it, but it was hard to tell if this was a long term issue.

 

So, weigh in with any thoughts about this.

[GB13]

I'm going to jack this thread a little bit. I am on the verge of abandoning this swing. Not the late release. I am now convinced about that using the hands only creates the illusion of more power.

 

This is a great swing and easy to teach a beginner and someone younger than me without the miles on them that I have. It creates a very powerful delivery with a square clubface straight into the ball. There is no timing issues to speak of. Just follow these four basic moves.

 

The main reason I have been having trouble is that the hip slide hurts my back. Because of this, lack of hip slide, I have been trying to add power with the hands, so the combinations lack of hip slide and adding power violates 2 of the 4 moves and does not add up to a good golf swing. The results are either a weak shot or a powerful hook that can travel up to 60 yards left.

 

I played 27 holes each of the last 2 days and played 10 days out of the last 2 weeks, and it's always the same story. Even after spending ample time trying to loosen up on the range, I can barely swing the first 4 holes, then play great for 10 or 11 holes and then my back flares up again and can no longer get through the ball. Occasionally, I can put together 18 holes, and one day I played 27 holes fairly well, but its been a struggle.

 

Turning back and through do not hurt my back, so I will going back to my Steve Stricker like swing I had before, which has more of a body reacting to the swinging of the arms. It is not as "effortless power swing" as the 4MM but it has some advantages.

 

The number 1 advantage is it doesn't hurt. However, with the 4MM I have two ball flights. A draw and a hook. Today, I had 2 times when I absolutely had to hit a fade. There is also one hole on our course where I have to fade the second shot. This hole is under repair, getting new teeboxes making it a 600 yard par 5. So it's playing as a driveable par 4 right now, and the teeshot has to be a fade with OB left. So I needed it 3 times in one round. The first time, I simply hooked it OB and the other two times, I had to lay up.

 

Before, I had really good control and could hit fades or draws on demand. I miss this. I went with the 4MM swing because instead of going to the range the first time out after 15 months off, I was spraying it all over the course for the first 2 holes. I remembered the 4MM from reading it and trying it several years ago and gave it a shot. This worked great, the first day. A week later I tried it again, and still awesome results. If I played 9 holes with a few days rest between them its not an issue. Other than no fades.

 

I stuck with this so long because for 6 weeks I was injured and not making full swings so for the majority of that time, I was concerned about it, but it was hard to tell if this was a long term issue.

 

So, weigh in with any thoughts about this.

If it hurts don't do it. It isn't worth an injury.

 

I will give you the golf take now too.

 

You need to be able to work the ball both ways IMHO. If you can't hit a fade you are giving up at least three shots in you examples. The fact that you can only draw or hook is a deal breaker to me. If you have a swing where you can do both use that swing.

 

If I read this correctly and you only have 2 holes after a 15 month break after an injury, I would spray it all over the course too. It seems like you had unrealistic expectations that first day. You should give the old swing more than 2 holes to "relearn" it especially considering you just came off an injury.

 

If the swing you are making isn't the 4MM swing while trying to make the 4MM swing; it clearly isn't working.

 

My advice is go back to the Steve Stricker turn back turn through swing. It sounds like it has served you well in the past.

[RoverRick]

Rick please tell me you are not going mechanical on us--- I not only instinct putt but I instinct golf too------ OHHHH NOOO MR RICK

Stu, there is a lot of merit to your statement. I've been thinking about this since I read it. Two things have kept me from playing my best golf lately.

 

First, is the back/swing issue. It doesn't really hurt during the swing but does when I start to get out of the follow through position. So my body won't let me get in that position. So it stops. Either my hands stop resulting in a weak hit. Or they don't resulting in a pull-hook.

 

Second, as you say, I'm getting too analytical over the ball. I should be thinking “hit it well.” And I'm thinking mechanical.

 

So thanks.

 

 

 

Sent from my iPad using MyGolfSpy

[RoverRick]

I'm going to jack this thread a little bit. I am on the verge of abandoning this swing. Not the late release. I am now convinced about that using the hands only creates the illusion of more power.

 

This is a great swing and easy to teach a beginner and someone younger than me without the miles on them that I have. It creates a very powerful delivery with a square clubface straight into the ball. There is no timing issues to speak of. Just follow these four basic moves.

 

The main reason I have been having trouble is that the hip slide hurts my back. Because of this, lack of hip slide, I have been trying to add power with the hands, so the combinations lack of hip slide and adding power violates 2 of the 4 moves and does not add up to a good golf swing. The results are either a weak shot or a powerful hook that can travel up to 60 yards left.

 

I played 27 holes each of the last 2 days and played 10 days out of the last 2 weeks, and it's always the same story. Even after spending ample time trying to loosen up on the range, I can barely swing the first 4 holes, then play great for 10 or 11 holes and then my back flares up again and can no longer get through the ball. Occasionally, I can put together 18 holes, and one day I played 27 holes fairly well, but its been a struggle.

 

Turning back and through do not hurt my back, so I will going back to my Steve Stricker like swing I had before, which has more of a body reacting to the swinging of the arms. It is not as "effortless power swing" as the 4MM but it has some advantages.

 

The number 1 advantage is it doesn't hurt. However, with the 4MM I have two ball flights. A draw and a hook. Today, I had 2 times when I absolutely had to hit a fade. There is also one hole on our course where I have to fade the second shot. This hole is under repair, getting new teeboxes making it a 600 yard par 5. So it's playing as a driveable par 4 right now, and the teeshot has to be a fade with OB left. So I needed it 3 times in one round. The first time, I simply hooked it OB and the other two times, I had to lay up.

 

Before, I had really good control and could hit fades or draws on demand. I miss this. I went with the 4MM swing because instead of going to the range the first time out after 15 months off, I was spraying it all over the course for the first 2 holes. I remembered the 4MM from reading it and trying it several years ago and gave it a shot. This worked great, the first day. A week later I tried it again, and still awesome results. If I played 9 holes with a few days rest between them its not an issue. Other than no fades.

 

I stuck with this so long because for 6 weeks I was injured and not making full swings so for the majority of that time, I was concerned about it, but it was hard to tell if this was a long term issue.

 

So, weigh in with any thoughts about this.

 

Disregard this post. Not really, but after working all week and not touching a club, I arrived at the course early to change up my swing back. Well, this didn't go well, and ended up sticking with the 4MM swing. The only real difference was to swing easier. The results were that after 54 holes this weekend, my back does not kill me. It's a little sore, but it is always a little sore.

 

That was not all of the results. While I did not hit every fairway by any means, I did not hit a bad shot all weekend. I did pull a few and push a few but all shots were long and high.

 

I will stick with this a bit longer, and have improved every time I have played this year. Keep in mind, I have only really played 9 healthy rounds after 18 months off and major swing rebuild.