edteergolf Posted May 4, 2020 Share Posted May 4, 2020 2 hours ago, RickyBobby_PR said: If properly fit there should be no trade off between them. Getting a fitting optimized both Not every fitting is to optimize distance. I can assure you that there is an equipment setup that would allow me to hit it further. My fitting is optimized for sufficient precision with enough distance. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zrumble Posted May 4, 2020 Share Posted May 4, 2020 17 minutes ago, edteergolf said: This is why that working a bit on speed also tends to correlate to improved accuracy. There is a point of diminishing return. Once you can no longer control the path because the accelerations required to get it there are too great, or you can't time the movements to build that much speed then your control goes away. But the club is still going to be incredibly stable, just in a really poor position. Quote Stats: 5'4", Male, R-Handed, Moderate Tempo, Driver SS 115mph Driver: Taylormade SiM Max 9*, TM Ventus Blue 6X 3w/5w: Callaway X-Hot, S-flex Fubuki shafts 3h: Tour Edge EXS Pro, Smoke Black 80g 6.0 4i-PW: Mizuno MP-4, DG S300 Wedges: Titleist SM7 56* Wedge: Callaway Jaws w/ 12* of bounce Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
edteergolf Posted May 4, 2020 Share Posted May 4, 2020 2 minutes ago, zrumble said: Once you can no longer control the path because the accelerations required to get it there are too great, or you can't time the movements to build that much speed then your control goes away. But the club is still going to be incredibly stable, just in a really poor position. Poorly positioned clubs are one of the few reasons higher handicap golfers don't improve. zrumble and null 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PMookie Posted May 4, 2020 Share Posted May 4, 2020 Most good baseball swings absolutely start with the hands moving away from the target before moving towards the ball. It's not nearly as pronounced as the back swing in golf, but baseball players absolutely "load" their hands and their lower bodies backwards prior to making a move towards the ball. In the concepts of kinetic motion and opposing forces that are referenced in the video I linked above is exactly why big-league hitters waggle there bat and load their body backwards prior to kicking their front leg forwards and swinging into the ball. Yes. I understand. Again. The premise stated in the initial OP sets the standard for the argument. It’s not about whether or not there is movement in baseball swings or golf swings, as we all know they are NOT stationary, but the question posed asks us to assume a stationary, non-moving swing. Arguing the finer points of motion, and whether or not they, in-fact, exist is moot, and is not necessary as stated in the question.Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro paulpattaya 1 Quote Driver: Ping G430 Max 9*, Ping Tour 70X Fairway: Ping G425 15*, Ping Tour 70X Hybrid: Ping G425 22*, Ping Tour 80X Irons: Ping i230 4-GW, TT DG X100 Wedges: SMS 50D/54V/58DModus 130 stiff, +1” Putter: EAS 1.0 Ball: Titleist 2023 AVX Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
null Posted May 4, 2020 Share Posted May 4, 2020 3 minutes ago, PMookie said: Yes. I understand. Again. The premise stated in the initial OP sets the standard for the argument. It’s not about whether or not there is movement in baseball swings or golf swings, as we all know they are NOT stationary, but the question posed asks us to assume a stationary, non-moving swing. Arguing the finer points of motion, and whether or not they, in-fact, exist is moot, and is not necessary as stated in the question. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro Understood. But his premise that a fundamentally sound baseball swing starts stationary, with the first movement being towards the ball, is simply incorrect. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FrogginBullfish Posted May 4, 2020 Share Posted May 4, 2020 The first post in the thread the OP states he doesn't really take a backswing with a baseball swing. I believe what he's trying to get at is could we not just apply a baseballesque swing in golf rather than starting the swing with the club beside the ball. Understood. But his premise that a fundamentally sound baseball swing starts stationary, with the first movement being towards the ball, is simply incorrect.Sent from my Pixel 2 using MyGolfSpy mobile app Quote DRIVER PXG 0811XF GEN4 (10.5°) FAIRWAY WOODS PXG 0341XF GEN4 (16°) HYBRIDS PXG 0317XF GEN4 (19°), PXG 0317X GEN4 (22°) IRONS PXG 0311T GEN3 (5 - 9) WEDGES TAYLORMADE MG3 (45°, 50°, 55° TW Grind, 60° TW Grind) PUTTER PXG BATTLE READY ONE & DONE Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RickyBobby_PR Posted May 4, 2020 Share Posted May 4, 2020 2 hours ago, edteergolf said: Not every fitting is to optimize distance. I can assure you that there is an equipment setup that would allow me to hit it further. My fitting is optimized for sufficient precision with enough distance. You are saying the samething I’m saying. One doesn’t have to give up distance to find better dispersion and one doesn’t have to give up accuracy to find distance. Find the product that gives you both. Quote Driver: PXG 0811 X+ Proto w/UST Helium 5F4 Wood: TaylorMade M5 5W w/Accra TZ5 +1/2”, TaylorMade Sim 3W w/Aldila rogue white Hybrid: PXG Gen2 22* w/AD hybrid Irons: PXG Gen3 0311T w/Nippon modus 120 Wedges: TaylorMade MG2 50*, Tiger grind 56/60 Putter: Scotty Caemeron Super Rat1 Ball: Titleist Prov1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
edteergolf Posted May 5, 2020 Share Posted May 5, 2020 14 hours ago, RickyBobby_PR said: You are saying the samething I’m saying. One doesn’t have to give up distance to find better dispersion and one doesn’t have to give up accuracy to find distance. Find the product that gives you both. We are not saying the same thing. I'm saying there is a setup that I can hit further than I do know but it would be less accurate. I have absolutely given up distance to be more accurate. Reaching maximum accuracy and maximum distance is not accomplished in fittings. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RickyBobby_PR Posted May 5, 2020 Share Posted May 5, 2020 43 minutes ago, edteergolf said: We are not saying the same thing. I'm saying there is a setup that I can hit further than I do know but it would be less accurate. I have absolutely given up distance to be more accurate. Reaching maximum accuracy and maximum distance is not accomplished in fittings. Actually it is. I have been fit multiple times by well qualified professionals to include the lpga rep for pxg when he was with ping. Carry and total distance were optimized and dispersion was improved. Samething when I was fit by the folks at UST Mamiya. I have never lost distance in a fitting compared to my gamer, I may have not gained anything but never lost and i have matched or improved dispersion. If you choose to give it up that’s fine but it’s not necessary imo. Quote Driver: PXG 0811 X+ Proto w/UST Helium 5F4 Wood: TaylorMade M5 5W w/Accra TZ5 +1/2”, TaylorMade Sim 3W w/Aldila rogue white Hybrid: PXG Gen2 22* w/AD hybrid Irons: PXG Gen3 0311T w/Nippon modus 120 Wedges: TaylorMade MG2 50*, Tiger grind 56/60 Putter: Scotty Caemeron Super Rat1 Ball: Titleist Prov1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cnosil Posted May 5, 2020 Share Posted May 5, 2020 Actually it is. I have been fit multiple times by well qualified professionals to include the lpga rep for pxg when he was with ping. Carry and total distance were optimized and dispersion was improved. Samething when I was fit by the folks at UST Mamiya. I have never lost distance in a fitting compared to my gamer, I may have not gained anything but never lost and i have matched or improved dispersion. If you choose to give it up that’s fine but it’s not necessary imo. I think what Ed was trying to say is that when you go to a fitting you make your swing, people are always advised to use their normal swing, and the fitter looks for equipment that maximizes distance and dispersion for the swing you are making. As a player You can adjust things in your swing to get more or less speed and accuracy such as stance, ball position, and tee height to name a few. Doing these things will shift the needle between max distance and max control. This needle can move based on your need for every shot. Quote Driver: G400 Max 9* w/ KBS Tour Driven Fairway: XCG7 Beta 15* w/Fujikura Fuel Hybrids: 915H 21* w/KBS Tour Graphite Hybrid Prototype 915H 24* w/KBS Tour Graphite Hybrid Prototype Irons: TR20V 6-11 w/Vizard TR20-85 Graphite Wedge: 54/12D, 60/8M w/Accra iWedge 90 Graphite Putter: Sacks Parente MC 3 Stripe Backup Putters: Milled Collection RSX 2, mFGP2, Futura 5W, TM-180 Member: MGS Hitsquad since 2017 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popeye64 Posted May 5, 2020 Share Posted May 5, 2020 It can be awkward getting the club into position without a back swing. But to your point a way to get the job done is to make a back swing and keep a long pause at the top. So now your body is free of motion and ready to make the down swing and accelerate with no sway of off balance moves. Sent from my SM-G981U using Tapatalk BMart519 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
edteergolf Posted May 5, 2020 Share Posted May 5, 2020 1 hour ago, RickyBobby_PR said: Actually it is. I have been fit multiple times by well qualified professionals to include the lpga rep for pxg when he was with ping. Carry and total distance were optimized and dispersion was improved. Samething when I was fit by the folks at UST Mamiya. I have never lost distance in a fitting compared to my gamer, I may have not gained anything but never lost and i have matched or improved dispersion. If you choose to give it up that’s fine but it’s not necessary imo. I never said I lost distance. I said that is possible to be fit into a club that would maximize distance but compromise accuracy. The opposite would also be true. Quality fittings find the best mix of both but not the maximums of either. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BMart519 Posted May 5, 2020 Share Posted May 5, 2020 I think one of the biggest aspects to consider with OPs question is making good contact with a ball while playing golf vs max speed generation. The George Gankas driver example is a good one, but it is also only used for a ball played off a tee on level ground (not sure if he uses that technique for anything other than driver). Try to play a ball on a severe sidehill lie but starting from the top of the backswing. I bet your contact is poor without the ability to adjust your address position. It could be a good way to diagnose your grip as I could see directional control being bad without setting the club at address. Quote G425 MAX Driver & 5W Baffler Rail-H 3H-4H 699 Pro Utility V2 - 4i APEX CF19 6-AW INDI Wedges 52, 56, 60 EAS 2.0 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GolfSpy BOS Posted May 11, 2020 Share Posted May 11, 2020 On 5/4/2020 at 11:09 AM, jlukes said: This video should explain why. Sasho MacKenzie is probably one of the most respected in the industry. He is a scientist who just so happens to focus on the golf swing. It's the same concept as how one swings an ax or a hammer, or why a wind up punch is more powerful than a jab. Or why one can jump higher/further when squating down and exploding up rather than just starting from the bottom of a squat. thanks for sharing this... now I have something to go try out with the radar later on! Initially I was thinking the backswing in golf was more about rhythm and feel but this makes a lot of sense. null 1 Quote Epic Max LS 10.5 - Motore X F3 6X | Speedzone 5-wood - Ventus Blue 8S | TSi3 20* Hybrid - KBS Proto 85S SMS Pro 4-PW - Steelfiber i110S | MG3 Raw Black 50.09, 54.11, 58.11 - DG TI S200 ER2B | Pro V1x | NX9 Slope | Jones Trouper R | CaddyLite EZ v8 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
heavygolffeels Posted May 18, 2020 Share Posted May 18, 2020 I feel like a stationary target, naturally promotes a backswing. You take a backswing you when swing an axe. Backswing when you use a hammer. I'm just pretending right now, but if I had a baseball bat and was using a tee, I would take a backswing. cnosil 1 Quote GARSEN GRIP TESTER Driver: PING G400 MAX, Ventus Blue 6x Woods: COBRA F6 Baffler AD DI 8S Hybrid: CALLAWAY Apex Pro, Ventus Blue 8s Irons: SRIXON ZX5 mk2 5-6, ZX7 mk2 7-PW, Modus 120x Wedges: EDEL 50 C grind, 54 V grind, CLEVELAND 60 RTX6 Low Putter: YES Abbie! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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