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Granata13

Gained distance, lost accuracy

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Hey guys I got fit for a set of irons last year, and I think I might have gotten to caught up with trying to get longer. I am a solid scratch golfer, I drive it straight and have a good short game and putt well. Irons have always been the issue. When I am on I can go low, but more times than not if I am going to play bad its going to be because of the irons. It might not be a horrible round but I just don't hit it close or miss greens I shouldn't 

I went to a fitting at Club Champion last summer looking to get a new set of irons and gain a little bit of distance. I hit a lot of different irons and shafts, it came down to Mizuno MP20 HMB and Ping i210. For shafts the 2 best were Steelfiber 110Cw and Project X LZ 6.5. I ended up going from a set of Ping Ie1s standard length and loft, orange dot with Dynamic Gold s300 to a set of Ping i210s standard length, Power Spec loft, brown dot with Steelfiber 110CW stiff shaft 

Here is the problem, the ball is moving a lot more than it ever has with my irons. I will think I hit it well and look up to see the ball turning left a lot more than I thought it should be. Even the slight mishits move more than I expect them to. I find myself aiming more to the right than I feel like I should have to. I went back and looked at my trackman numbers for the set I ended up getting and they are very similar to the numbers I am getting off my Skytrak. Here are the trackman #s from my fitting: 

Ball Speed: 122mph

Launch angle: 18.7*

Spin Rate: 4568 (obviously this is off a mat, I know that lowers spin but is this still too low?)

Carry: 180

Attack Angle: -1.3

Club Path: 6.2

Face Angle: 1.35

Please let me know what you think, did I get too caught up in the distance gain? I gained about a half club throughout my irons 

Is the lack of backspin the cause for lack of accuracy / control?

Holding greens isn't a big issue because my descent angle is fairly steep (45* off skytrak). I am just struggling with the lack of control on my irons.

When I received the irons the SW was around C8-9, I attributed this to the high balance point of the Steelfiber.  I added about 5-6 grams of weight to the irons to increase the SW a couple points to D1.  It has helped but the ball is still moving a lot more than I am used to!


Ping G400 LST 10* - Rogue silver 110

Callaway Rogue 15* - Even Flow Blue

Callaway Apex 18* & 23*  Kuro Kage

Ping i500 (reg spec) Steelfiber 110CW

Ping i210 6-UW Steelfiber 110CW

Ping Glide 54* & 58* Dynamic Gold X100 SoftStepped

Ping Nome TR

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Neutralizing that club bath will help. I210s are fantastic irons so I don't think they're causing any issues

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:ping-small: G410 Plus Ping 9* VA Nemesys 65FIVE
:ping-small: G410 LST 14.5* VA Vylyn 75FIVE
:titelist-small: 818 H2 20* Tour AD DI 85X
:mizuno-small: MP20 HMB 4 Tour AD 95X
:mizuno-small: JPX 919 Tour 5-PW Oban CT 115 X(-)
:titelist-small: Vokey SM7 49 F - 54 S - 59 D
:mizuno-small: M Craft I
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7 minutes ago, jlukes said:

Neutralizing that club bath will help. I210s are fantastic irons so I don't think they're causing any issues

I am always working on that, its one of my swing flaws.  I am just trying to figure out why the ball seems to turn so much more than my old irons

 


Ping G400 LST 10* - Rogue silver 110

Callaway Rogue 15* - Even Flow Blue

Callaway Apex 18* & 23*  Kuro Kage

Ping i500 (reg spec) Steelfiber 110CW

Ping i210 6-UW Steelfiber 110CW

Ping Glide 54* & 58* Dynamic Gold X100 SoftStepped

Ping Nome TR

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Sounds like you had sacrificed a lot for half a club length of distance gain, not to mention the financial "investment" incurred.

I'm in the camp of believing the irons should be focused on accuracy and distance control,  Distance gain is for the long clubs.

 

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Hey guys I got fit for a set of irons last year, and I think I might have gotten to caught up with trying to get longer. I am a solid scratch golfer, I drive it straight and have a good short game and putt well. Irons have always been the issue. When I am on I can go low, but more times than not if I am going to play bad its going to be because of the irons. It might not be a horrible round but I just don't hit it close or miss greens I shouldn't 

I went to a fitting at Club Champion last summer looking to get a new set of irons and gain a little bit of distance. I hit a lot of different irons and shafts, it came down to Mizuno MP20 HMB and Ping i210. For shafts the 2 best were Steelfiber 110Cw and Project X LZ 6.5. I ended up going from a set of Ping Ie1s standard length and loft, orange dot with Dynamic Gold s300 to a set of Ping i210s standard length, Power Spec loft, brown dot with Steelfiber 110CW stiff shaft 

Here is the problem, the ball is moving a lot more than it ever has with my irons. I will think I hit it well and look up to see the ball turning left a lot more than I thought it should be. Even the slight mishits move more than I expect them to. I find myself aiming more to the right than I feel like I should have to. I went back and looked at my trackman numbers for the set I ended up getting and they are very similar to the numbers I am getting off my Skytrak. Here are the trackman #s from my fitting: 

Ball Speed: 122mph

Launch angle: 18.7*

Spin Rate: 4568 (obviously this is off a mat, I know that lowers spin but is this still too low?)

Carry: 180

Attack Angle: -1.3

Club Path: 6.2

Face Angle: 1.35

Please let me know what you think, did I get too caught up in the distance gain? I gained about a half club throughout my irons 

Is the lack of backspin the cause for lack of accuracy / control?

Holding greens isn't a big issue because my descent angle is fairly steep (45* off skytrak). I am just struggling with the lack of control on my irons.

When I received the irons the SW was around C8-9, I attributed this to the high balance point of the Steelfiber.  I added about 5-6 grams of weight to the irons to increase the SW a couple points to D1.  It has helped but the ball is still moving a lot more than I am used to!


I found the same thing with a set of i210 I won.... They just weren’t a good set for me at all. I’ve had the same thing happen post-fitting, the clubs I was fitted to just didn’t work out very well. Have you gone back to your old irons to see if they’re still as good as they were?


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Driver: :honma: TR20 460, :Fuji: Ventus Black 70X

Fwy: :titelist-small: TS3, 15*, Veylix Rome 888 X

Hybrid: :callaway-small: X2 Hot Pro, 20*, :Fuji: Rombax 8D07HB TM27 X

Irons: :srixon-small: Z585 4/5 iron, Z785 6-PW, :Nippon:Modus 120X

Wedges: Vega VW-06 50*/54*/58*, Dynamic Gold S400

Putter: :seemore-small: Platinum M5 HT Mallet, 36"

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4 minutes ago, PMookie said:


I found the same thing with a set of i210 I won.... They just weren’t a good set for me at all. I’ve had the same thing happen post-fitting, the clubs I was fitted to just didn’t work out very well. Have you gone back to your old irons to see if they’re still as good as they were?


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I unfortunately sold them.  I have been using Ping irons for a long time and didn't think it would be that different!

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Ping G400 LST 10* - Rogue silver 110

Callaway Rogue 15* - Even Flow Blue

Callaway Apex 18* & 23*  Kuro Kage

Ping i500 (reg spec) Steelfiber 110CW

Ping i210 6-UW Steelfiber 110CW

Ping Glide 54* & 58* Dynamic Gold X100 SoftStepped

Ping Nome TR

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I unfortunately sold them.  I have been using Ping irons for a long time and didn't think it would be that different!

I sell mine to help buy new as well. It’s worth contacting the fitter about coming back and doing another evaluation. See if there’s a change, or an adjustment that could be made, like just a slight tweak of loft/lie, weighting, etc. Can’t hurt to ask, and cheaper than trying to figure it out on your own... My guys at CC would be more than happy to have me come back by to look at things.


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Driver: :honma: TR20 460, :Fuji: Ventus Black 70X

Fwy: :titelist-small: TS3, 15*, Veylix Rome 888 X

Hybrid: :callaway-small: X2 Hot Pro, 20*, :Fuji: Rombax 8D07HB TM27 X

Irons: :srixon-small: Z585 4/5 iron, Z785 6-PW, :Nippon:Modus 120X

Wedges: Vega VW-06 50*/54*/58*, Dynamic Gold S400

Putter: :seemore-small: Platinum M5 HT Mallet, 36"

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More spin will help with control.

Almost seems like a lie angle issue, although you are already very flat. 

 


  • Driver: :ping-small: G410 Plus 9*, Tensei Orange 60X
  • Hybrids::adams-small:  Super XTD 17* Hybrid Fubuki AX:callaway-small:,  Apex 20* Hybrid, AD-DI 85S
  • Irons: :srixon-small: U85 4I AD DI 95S, Z585 5-6, Z785 7-PW, Modus 120s
  • Wedges: :ping-small:: Glide 3.0 52, Modus 120x:taylormade-small:, Hi Toe 56 & 60, Modus 120x
  • Putter: :EVNROLL:  ER3 @ 33"
  • RH in Phoenix, AZ

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So far I have done a bunch of testing and research, here is what I have done and planning on doing going forward:

I tested with lead tape, upping the swing weight by adding it to the head and upping the total weight by adding lead tape to the shaft slightly below the grip.  I definitely like a club with a higher static weight.  That means new shaft so I have ordered a few Project X LZ to try and see how that works

I definitely need more spin for my approach shots, I have been keeping a close on where the ball lands on the green and where my ball ends up and the roll our is definitely more than I am used to.  Probably need to have the irons bent weaker from the Power Spec lofts they are now but also hoping the new shafts add some as well.  I don't have time to send them back to Ping right now, golf season is too short in Northern Michigan. This will also get done when I have time or can find someone up here to bend them.

I have been working on my path by doing some drills and it seems to be working but as always its a work in progress.  Still get to inside out on shots, especially when I try to hit it hard, but its getting better.  I am also hoping the heavier shaft will give me a better feel of where the club is and help with the path. 

Thanks for all your help guys!


Ping G400 LST 10* - Rogue silver 110

Callaway Rogue 15* - Even Flow Blue

Callaway Apex 18* & 23*  Kuro Kage

Ping i500 (reg spec) Steelfiber 110CW

Ping i210 6-UW Steelfiber 110CW

Ping Glide 54* & 58* Dynamic Gold X100 SoftStepped

Ping Nome TR

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A 5 degree spread between face and path angles is going to lead to excess curvature especially when spin is 1000-2000 rpm low. 


:cobra-small: F9 Driver 9*, 5-6 FWY at 17*

:cobra-small: Baffler 2H/5H

:ping-small: G700 4i, G410 5-UW, Glide 2.0 54, 60*

:taylormade-small: TP Berwick

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Take the spin numbers from Skytrak with a grain of salt. Trust what trackman is saying and the flight you see with your eye.

First thing I did was check the MOI and Vertical Center of Gravity on those heads:

http://ralphmaltby.com/mpf/ping/

The i210 isn't published yet, but the i200 and le1 are very very close. So Im leaning toward it not being the design of the heads?

*I'm not a pro* but some things that may/may not help:

1. Are the grips the same? I'm super sensitive to grip diameter in my irons, I'm a few degrees in to out and the wrong grip takes me from a straight ball to an overdraw.

2. Is the shaft the problem? Is their something about the profile/flex/torque that is changing your delivery to closed to the path?

3. Is it related to more offset? Bending irons strong adds more offset. For me, some offset is good, too much offset creates a tendency for the face to be too closed (some people say because it creates a fraction of a second longer for the face to close - idk about the why, just what it does for me).

 


“He’s a Cinderella story. A former assistant groundskeeper about to become the Masters champion. It looks like a mirac… It’s in the hole! It’s in the hole! It’s in the hole!” — Carl Spackler

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On 5/16/2020 at 7:19 AM, Granata13 said:

Hey guys I got fit for a set of irons last year, and I think I might have gotten to caught up with trying to get longer. I am a solid scratch golfer, I drive it straight and have a good short game and putt well. Irons have always been the issue. When I am on I can go low, but more times than not if I am going to play bad its going to be because of the irons. It might not be a horrible round but I just don't hit it close or miss greens I shouldn't 

I went to a fitting at Club Champion last summer looking to get a new set of irons and gain a little bit of distance. I hit a lot of different irons and shafts, it came down to Mizuno MP20 HMB and Ping i210. For shafts the 2 best were Steelfiber 110Cw and Project X LZ 6.5. I ended up going from a set of Ping Ie1s standard length and loft, orange dot with Dynamic Gold s300 to a set of Ping i210s standard length, Power Spec loft, brown dot with Steelfiber 110CW stiff shaft 

Here is the problem, the ball is moving a lot more than it ever has with my irons. I will think I hit it well and look up to see the ball turning left a lot more than I thought it should be. Even the slight mishits move more than I expect them to. I find myself aiming more to the right than I feel like I should have to. I went back and looked at my trackman numbers for the set I ended up getting and they are very similar to the numbers I am getting off my Skytrak. Here are the trackman #s from my fitting: 

Ball Speed: 122mph

Launch angle: 18.7*

Spin Rate: 4568 (obviously this is off a mat, I know that lowers spin but is this still too low?)

Carry: 180

Attack Angle: -1.3

Club Path: 6.2

Face Angle: 1.35

Please let me know what you think, did I get too caught up in the distance gain? I gained about a half club throughout my irons 

Is the lack of backspin the cause for lack of accuracy / control?

Holding greens isn't a big issue because my descent angle is fairly steep (45* off skytrak). I am just struggling with the lack of control on my irons.

When I received the irons the SW was around C8-9, I attributed this to the high balance point of the Steelfiber.  I added about 5-6 grams of weight to the irons to increase the SW a couple points to D1.  It has helped but the ball is still moving a lot more than I am used to!

What club?  Either way path and face are too far apart and you don't hit enough down which is part of the reason the spin is low.  Of course, low is relative to which club you are hitting.  If it is a 5 iron you are just a click low.  If it is a seven iron then you 2500 too low and no chance to go far or be controlled.  I'm a huge fan of SteelFibre shafts, but many better players have a hard time controlling them.  Adding weight to the head made the shafts softer and probably increased the problem.  Again, great quality shaft but quality has nothing to do with precision.  You are a +.5 - just stop it with the distance!!!!  If you want it, learn to swing faster!  

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