Pace of play

[schooner44]

I played last Friday at my usual course. Everything started out fine but by the 4th hole, we had the group behind us waiting on us at the tee box which seemed odd but we just thought they were very good players that happen to get a tee time after us. After the 6th hole, the marshal came by asking us to pick up the pace. Our cart showed we were 2 mins behind pace and by this point, there were multiple groups piling up behind us. We had a good group where I was the worst player (I shot a 48 on the front 9) and I felt like we were moving along pretty well. We got to hole 9 and the group behind us had now hit into us twice so at the turn, one of the guys in the group ( local golf pro) went into the clubhouse to inquire about the pace of play. We finished the front 9 in 2 hours and 10 minutes which I feel is very respectable. They told him that there was 3 groups piled up behind us and that they considered pace of play to be 4 hours for 18 holes. I've always been under the assumption that 4 hours 30 minutes was standard pace of play. I did look it up per PGA rules and it shows the expected pace of play is actually 4 hours 21 minutes which we were right on pace for.

It's now 4 days later and I'm still pissed off about the experience. Were we in the wrong? How would any of you handled it?

[cnosil]

Most people expect t 4 hours or less as normal pace of play.   
 

were their groups in front of you?  If so how far ahead of you did they get?  Were you playing ready golf?  Assuming riding carts, were players being dropped at a ball and then walking to the cart?   
 

if there was no one in front of you, why didn’t you let the group behind you play through?   

[Haile]

4 hours give or take 10 minutes is perfectly acceptable for a group of 4 players. If it's one group who's catching ours, I let them play through and just go about the day. If it makes sense to do that. It doesn't make sense if we're waiting on people. I hate to be like this and may catch some heat, but if you're out for a 3 hour round, that's cool. Now go join a country club or something. Don't expect that on a public course. I'm slower than some, faster than others but usually play at a pretty good pace. Our average round is just at under 4 hours for a group of 4. I get kinda snippy when people start getting impatient on the course though. Most of the time quick singles and things I let through. But c'mon. You're playing with the general public, you're going to have to be okay with playing in traffic. There have been countless times I've been waiting on people. It's just the way it goes some days. I can get a general feel for things by how full the parking lot is. If it's super full, we're gonna be golfing for a while. But, for future reference, the average hole should take right around 13 minutes to finish. If you stick at or under that, you'll have a 4 hour round. We have had to pick up on a few meltdown holes over the years. 

[goaliedad30]

If there were open holes in front of you, then yes, you were wrong. Let the faster groups play through. And with open holes in front of you, 4 hours should be an absolute maximum, especially if as you say, you're all "good players".

 

Look AHEAD, not behind, to determine where you should be.

And if you had three groups piled up behind you, no one in front, and have to ask where the problem lies ....

[schooner44]

3 hours ago, cnosil said:

Most people expect t 4 hours or less as normal pace of play.   
 

were their groups in front of you?  If so how far ahead of you did they get?

There was a group in front of us. They gained some ground on us and by the turn, they were almost a hole ahead.  

Were you playing ready golf?  Assuming riding carts, were players being dropped at a ball and then walking to the cart?   Yes and yes

if there was no one in front of you, why didn’t you let the group behind you play through?   

The group behind us never really got close enough until the last 2 holes of the front 9 at which point, we planned on taking a few minutes at the turn to let them go ahead. That's when the guy in the clubhouse said there were 3 group backed up and told us to go anyway (which didn't make sense). We did and actually played ahead of pace on the back 9 even though I felt like we played worse compared to the front 9.

 

[schooner44]

2 hours ago, goaliedad30 said:

If there were open holes in front of you, then yes, you were wrong. Let the faster groups play through. And with open holes in front of you, 4 hours should be an absolute maximum, especially if as you say, you're all "good players".

 

Look AHEAD, not behind, to determine where you should be.

And if you had three groups piled up behind you, no one in front, and have to ask where the problem lies ....

 

I said we had a good group (as a whole) not necessarily that we were all good players as that is very subjective. The group ahead of us was pulling away a bit from us. If we are playing on pace as per PGA rules and a group in front and/or behind us is playing faster than us, how is that our fault? I think that's where I wanted to get opinions from the folks here. Extreme scenario here but if Tiger, Rory, Bryson and Scottie are playing at a local course, they're obviously going to play faster than another group...is it that other's group's fault if they cannot keep up or ahead of them?

[cnosil]

If I am a marshall and I see a hole open and groups stacking up behind you I would ask you to pick up the pace.    As a player I simply say we will do our best and work to catch up to the group in front of me and if I can't keep up let the groups behind start to play through.      

Not sure why you are angry; no reason to get pissed off. 

[schooner44]

5 hours ago, cnosil said:

If I am a marshall and I see a hole open and groups stacking up behind you I would ask you to pick up the pace.    As a player I simply say we will do our best and work to catch up to the group in front of me and if I can't keep up let the groups behind start to play through.      

Not sure why you are angry; no reason to get pissed off. 

I'm not pissed off at the situation but rather how it was handled. I totally understand letting the groups behind us play through (that was our plan at the turn) but for them to treat us like we had just taken 3 hours to play 9 holes seemed wrong. They didn't even want us to let the other groups play through... They seemed to want to get us back out there for the back 9 just to get rid of us. Considering it was a holiday weekend on a public course, they have to expect to be busier.

I really just wanted to get some opinions from some impartial people. I appreciate the feedback you guys have given.

[Hacker60521]

@schooner44 intentionally hitting into you is bad behavior by the group behind for sure. And 2:10 at the turn for a 4 hour round is reasonable. Two things that bug me. First, if the Marshall asked you to pick up the pace and the hole ahead of you was open, then that’s a fair ask. As @goaliedad30 mentioned look ahead not behind for pace. If you were 2:02 starting 7 and ended 2:10 at nine you added 8 minutes in three holes. So you definitely weren’t “on pace”. Second, I would have found the first chance I got to let the group behind me go ahead — even if the hole ahead wasn’t open.  Let them complain about the next foursome.

I’ve played behind plenty of really good foursomes (in terms of scores). But some are notorious for slow play. 
 

All of this said. Just view this as a lesson from the course as being aware of ready golf. But after four days you need to let it go. I’m guessing everyone else has 

Edited July 9 by Hacker60521

[russtopherb]

11 hours ago, schooner44 said:

I'm not pissed off at the situation but rather how it was handled. I totally understand letting the groups behind us play through (that was our plan at the turn) but for them to treat us like we had just taken 3 hours to play 9 holes seemed wrong. They didn't even want us to let the other groups play through... They seemed to want to get us back out there for the back 9 just to get rid of us. Considering it was a holiday weekend on a public course, they have to expect to be busier.

I really just wanted to get some opinions from some impartial people. I appreciate the feedback you guys have given.

It feels to me, with the limited info available, that you may be reading more into this than there really was. There was room ahead of you, so your group was behind the pace of play at that point in time on the course. The course itself wants to keep things moving and as many people as happy as possible. Sometimes you're the group holding things up. I've been there before, and I'm sure I'll be there again. You just have to make the effort to play ready golf and keep things moving. 

[Brooky03]

This is somewhat like driving in the left lane on the highway.  It doesn't really matter what the speed limit is (to an extent), if the car behind you is driving faster, you're expected to get over to the right lane when you can.

The group behind you shouldn't have hit into your group, of course.  That's terrible. 

As for the way the course handled the back nine, I'm slightly confused.  The course told you to go out there ahead of the group(s) you were going to let play through?  That's an odd choice, to say they least.  

Edited July 9 by Brooky03

[DaveP043]

On 7/8/2024 at 11:46 AM, schooner44 said:

I've always been under the assumption that 4 hours 30 minutes was standard pace of play.

There is really no "PGA rule" regarding pace of play.  What I DO see is a stated goal that may vary from course to course.  I HAVE seen 4:30 as about the longest, and I've seen 3:30 for 4 players all walking at a number of courses in Scotland.  I once took 4 hours to play at Royal Dornoch, at the end of a week-long trip, as the second round of the day, and it felt like we were going at a snails pace because we were waiting on every hole!  It depends on the design of the course, the distance between holes, local pace "culture", any number of different variables.  But if groups are waiting behind you, and you have open holes in front, you should try to go faster, its really that simple.  "Your place on the golf course is behind the group in front of you, not in front of the group behind you."  IF the staff asks you to pick up the pace, you say "yes sir" and try to do just that.  And if you can't keep up, let the faster groups through.

Having said that, its completely inexcusable to hit into anyone, for any reason.  And perhaps the staff handled it poorly.  But the right pace of play is just about as fast as the people in front of you.

Edited July 9 by DaveP043

[Firmadge]

My experience is the pace of play differs depending on the course and specifically how far it is from green to tee. It sounds like you were moving at a decent clip. I assume you were playing ready golf. When we play we don't concern ourselves with who is away on the greens unless you need a read and we don't worry about honors. whoever is ready first goes and we move briskly. I usually find I play better when I play faster. When I have to wait It bothers me and I start to lose focus. Don't let it bother you just move on.