Wide sole wedges just sgi wedges?

[blackyatx]

Anyone else think a vokey K, cobra widelow tm bigfoot or pick your brand is really just an sgi wedge?  The cbx and mack daddy added the cavity and  look like an over priced sgi to me.  Even more interesting, set lob wedges are really not sold anymore...coincidence or brilliant marketing?

Not sure of the bounces, but off set of both variants is small.  I used to have a set lob wedge years ago and loved it out of the sand, but hated it everywhere else.  I am wondering if there is more a correlation between the iron sole width you play vs handicap, swing plane, bounce or conditions that are often advertised.

 

[GolfSpy_APH]

10 hours ago, blackyatx said:

Anyone else think a vokey K, cobra widelow tm bigfoot or pick your brand is really just an sgi wedge?  The cbx and mack daddy added the cavity and  look like an over priced sgi to me.  Even more interesting, set lob wedges are really not sold anymore...coincidence or brilliant marketing?

Not sure of the bounces, but off set of both variants is small.  I used to have a set lob wedge years ago and loved it out of the sand, but hated it everywhere else.  I am wondering if there is more a correlation between the iron sole width you play vs handicap, swing plane, bounce or conditions that are often advertised.

 

Very well could be. I also have read that many players (amateurs) just simply don't know how to use bounce properly. 

I have two ping glide wedges with their eye sole and I believe that is stated 8 degrees of bounce, but given its weird nature it can play many different ways. I would almost look at the leading edge and how that is presented as well. 

I also wonder how many actually get wedge fittings or know about the different soul types vs looking at the back and badge and just go I like the look of that and get that?

All to say I couldn't say for sure, but I think you are onto something about set lob wedges. 

[null]

16 hours ago, blackyatx said:

Anyone else think a vokey K, cobra widelow tm bigfoot or pick your brand is really just an sgi wedge?  The cbx and mack daddy added the cavity and  look like an over priced sgi to me.  Even more interesting, set lob wedges are really not sold anymore...coincidence or brilliant marketing?

Not sure of the bounces, but off set of both variants is small.  I used to have a set lob wedge years ago and loved it out of the sand, but hated it everywhere else.  I am wondering if there is more a correlation between the iron sole width you play vs handicap, swing plane, bounce or conditions that are often advertised.

 

Sole has nothing to do with handicap and everything to do with angle of attack and low point control.

Bounce is your friend and most amateurs are playing too little bounce.  That is because most amateurs have poor low point control and are typically over the top.  So yeah, wide sole wedges could really help an amateur, but not simply because they are  "game improvement wedges".

My favorite Vokey grind is the 12D, which is 12 degrees of bounce which is pretty high.  I am a low single digit handicap with really good hands and I love manipulating the face around the greens.

So why more bounce for me?  Playing conditions.  I often use my 58 from greenside rough and soft bunkers so the more bounce really helps me there.  And I have no problem using it off tighter fairway lies either.  I tried the M grind and struggle out of softer bunkers and deep rough.  

There are plenty of PGA Tour players that are gaming the Vokey K, D and other "high bounce" wedges. 

So what did I ramble on about?  Bounce and sole width are not always a great indicator of GI/SGI.  Do "GI" wedges tend to have more bounce and wider soles? Sure.  They also have perimeter weighting which, to me, is the biggest indicator of a "GI " wedge.  But simply states: Amateurs should always error on the side of MORE bounce

[Andrew75]

It depends on playing conditions as well as technique. I played crappy munis most of my life and developed a pick approach around the greens, playing safe stroke savers with a narrow sole max 10 bounce and max loft of 56... stiff wristed putter grip on pitches because the soil just gives way too easily with higher bounce, and you need surgeon's touch to hit ball cleanly.  so bounce being a friend is a friend of those on lush, fairly dry and consistent grasses or powdery sand; but playing from pock marked, sparsely grassed, or wet sandy lies, with bunkers with little sand, bounce is your enemy. Even well manicured by closely cropped, bounce is not your friend. 

[scubahoops]

So this is the debate I having going on right now with myself as I am looking to purchase new wedges.  I live in Arizona so much of what I play is hard turf and sand that is not very soft so I am leaning towards a low bounce 60 degree and even a low bounce 54 degree. The problem I worry about is playing out of the rough with low bounce clubs as well as times when the conditions are a little softer.  Should I do a standard bounce for the 54 and I can safely play that out of the rough but it isn't too much bounce for the hard grass I play on and then a low bounce 60 for having a little more workability around the greens? 

[null]

4 minutes ago, scubahoops said:

So this is the debate I having going on right now with myself as I am looking to purchase new wedges.  I live in Arizona so much of what I play is hard turf and sand that is not very soft so I am leaning towards a low bounce 60 degree and even a low bounce 54 degree. The problem I worry about is playing out of the rough with low bounce clubs as well as times when the conditions are a little softer.  Should I do a standard bounce for the 54 and I can safely play that out of the rough but it isn't too much bounce for the hard grass I play on and then a low bounce 60 for having a little more workability around the greens? 

I would recommend using the Vokey wedge selection tool and see what it spits out for you.  You select divot type, shot types and conditions you hit with each club and then it recommends lofts and grinds.  

I use the Vokey D grind on my 58 and even with 12 degrees of bounce if find the sole grind makes it super versatile

[Bag Ratt]

I play alot of courses that you end up in hard pan lies ..My first fitting back in the 80s the fitter suggested I use a thin blade type of wegs with low bounce that I fine works well in wet sane . I also have a 56 with 14 degree of bounce..I lov hitting out of wet bunkers with the single degree of  bounce…

Bag Ratt says get fit for sum  wedges and make his job easier…

[CarlH]

Who cares how one labels a wedge (or any club, for that matter)?  Play what works best for your game, your swing, your turf conditions, etc.  Low score wins every time!

[Andrew75]

All wedges are super game improvement clubs, just make sure you have a good one. 

Playing mostly muni and public courses in Florida I developed a need for medium low bounce, 10* max. It gets you where you play a course with soft sand bunkers.

I would advise this: if you're not a pro or don't consider yourself a master wedge player, or you play the ball down on crappy conditions, you shouldn't carry more than 55* loft on any wedge. Wedges about 57 are the hardest club in your bag and require perfection in your technique. 

The vast majority of golfers would best be served with a max 54* wedge and just take your poison, never try to get cute unless it is to stay alive in a match. 

[Andrew75]

Above, not about 

[Javs]

On 1/16/2023 at 4:37 PM, blackyatx said:

Anyone else think a vokey K, cobra widelow tm bigfoot or pick your brand is really just an sgi wedge?  The cbx and mack daddy added the cavity and  look like an over priced sgi to me.  Even more interesting, set lob wedges are really not sold anymore...coincidence or brilliant marketing?

Not sure of the bounces, but off set of both variants is small.  I used to have a set lob wedge years ago and loved it out of the sand, but hated it everywhere else.  I am wondering if there is more a correlation between the iron sole width you play vs handicap, swing plane, bounce or conditions that are often advertised.

 

I think a lot of what you are asking comes down to “how you swing” and the conditions of the courses you play. Example do you sweep the ball or are you a digger. A digger needs more bounce. Are you comfortable playing half shots? Do you open the face on your chips or pitch shots? Is the sand at your course soft or firm? Then there is the length and lie of the club to consider. There are a multiple of things to consider in wedges. I would recommend a fitting. 

[Andrew75]

1 minute ago, Javs said:

I think a lot of what you are asking comes down to “how you swing” and the conditions of the courses you play. Example do you sweep the ball or are you a digger. A digger needs more bounce. Are you comfortable playing half shots? Do you open the face on your chips or pitch shots? Is the sand at your course soft or firm? Then there is the length and lie of the club to consider. There are a multiple of things to consider in wedges. I would recommend a fitting. 

I agree with this, except the fitting part. Any competent PGA pro can help your selection better than most fitters. Any fitting needs to be on real time turf. It's best to rotate wedges based on the course you will play.  The for instances are endless. 

[Javs]

3 minutes ago, Andrew75 said:

I agree with this, except the fitting part. Any competent PGA pro can help your selection better than most fitters. Any fitting needs to be on real time turf. It's best to rotate wedges based on the course you will play.  The for instances are endless. 

That’s what I was implying. A wedge fitting would be done on a proper driving range and practice area. They need to see you hit shots from 100, 60 and 30 yards. Then see you pitch and chip. Lastly, some bunker shots. The fitting is loft, lie and length coupled with the shot making. 

Edited February 14, 2023 by Javs

[TylorJudd]

On 1/17/2023 at 6:50 AM, Golfspy_Lukes said:

Sole has nothing to do with handicap and everything to do with angle of attack and low point control.

Bounce is your friend and most amateurs are playing too little bounce.  That is because most amateurs have poor low point control and are typically over the top.  So yeah, wide sole wedges could really help an amateur, but not simply because they are  "game improvement wedges".

My favorite Vokey grind is the 12D, which is 12 degrees of bounce which is pretty high.  I am a low single digit handicap with really good hands and I love manipulating the face around the greens.

So why more bounce for me?  Playing conditions.  I often use my 58 from greenside rough and soft bunkers so the more bounce really helps me there.  And I have no problem using it off tighter fairway lies either.  I tried the M grind and struggle out of softer bunkers and deep rough.  

There are plenty of PGA Tour players that are gaming the Vokey K, D and other "high bounce" wedges. 

So what did I ramble on about?  Bounce and sole width are not always a great indicator of GI/SGI.  Do "GI" wedges tend to have more bounce and wider soles? Sure.  They also have perimeter weighting which, to me, is the biggest indicator of a "GI " wedge.  But simply states: Amateurs should always error on the side of MORE bounce

If only you could hold a wedge of every bounce for every course!

[TylorJudd]

8 hours ago, scubahoops said:

So this is the debate I having going on right now with myself as I am looking to purchase new wedges.  I live in Arizona so much of what I play is hard turf and sand that is not very soft so I am leaning towards a low bounce 60 degree and even a low bounce 54 degree. The problem I worry about is playing out of the rough with low bounce clubs as well as times when the conditions are a little softer.  Should I do a standard bounce for the 54 and I can safely play that out of the rough but it isn't too much bounce for the hard grass I play on and then a low bounce 60 for having a little more workability around the greens? 

In our area, we have very similiar conditions. I personally found low bounce was more enjoyable, My 56/60 M grind are 8 degrees bounce and my 52/48 F grind are 10 degrees. We hit 40-45° here (100-110)

[GolfSpy_APH]

4 hours ago, TylorJudd said:

In our area, we have very similiar conditions. I personally found low bounce was more enjoyable, My 56/60 M grind are 8 degrees bounce and my 52/48 F grind are 10 degrees. We hit 40-45° here (100-110)

It can dry out there so quickly and with all the forest fires each summer it's amazing how hot and dry it can be. Especially compared to the rest of Canada. 

Are your courses hilly as well? Kinda think that plays a small role as well. My home course is stupid flat which helps a lot, going to hilly courses makes me have to get more creative and question some wedge choices.

[Andrew75]

Mizuno has done same, so have Fourteen, and OnOff.  Width of sole is less important than bounce until you try to open the blade. 

[scubahoops]

14 hours ago, TylorJudd said:

In our area, we have very similiar conditions. I personally found low bounce was more enjoyable, My 56/60 M grind are 8 degrees bounce and my 52/48 F grind are 10 degrees. We hit 40-45° here (100-110)

So I am leaning towards getting a primary set of wedges a 54 with 10 degrees and a 60 with 6 degrees and then keeping a back up set with a little more bounce for the times when it may be a little softer or I travel to courses with different conditions.  Thank you all for your thoughts.

[TylorJudd]

3 hours ago, scubahoops said:

So I am leaning towards getting a primary set of wedges a 54 with 10 degrees and a 60 with 6 degrees and then keeping a back up set with a little more bounce for the times when it may be a little softer or I travel to courses with different conditions.  Thank you all for your thoughts.

I found bunkers to be the big outlier in those. I may get a different 56 with high bounce, maybe around 12-14 just to have options. I think you have it settled though