Sorting through Swing Thoughts / Accountability thread

[NM01]

44 minutes ago, Vegan_Golfer_PNW said:

Thoughts on playing while trying to let changes set in. I am trying to get more vertical hinge in the takeaway and I don’t want to play golf swing on the course. Is it best to do that feel in preshot routine and just play golf? Take it to a shorter course or play tees up and just do half swings? Avoid the course altogether (not an option as I do this work exercise). 

It doesn’t matter if doing a swing change or not the preshot routine is about creating a feel for the shot you want to hit. 
 

Watch pros and their preshot routine, they are working to create a feel even someone like JT or Mike weir you can see them get the club to a position in the swing while they are over the ball and then they swing.

So when making swing changes and playing you have to just play golf on the course and don’t change what you do based the result of the shot.

You have to put in the time on the practice range working on the swing. That means lots of reps hitting balls at slower speeds with the drills for 5 swings then 10 golf swings so that you can start working the changes into the swing. More balls should be hit from lead arm parallel than full swings. 
 

You have to trust that the more time you work on the swing changes that the changes will show up on the course. Learned this past from GG and taking his course. 

[vandyland]

Well about halfway through my vacation with no golf clubs and I have been doing the broom force stuff everyday. I can feel how my lower body wants to take over and how the slapshot/nike drill should really be helpful in combating that. I am still curious if I can get that feel to carry over effectively into a swing that doesn't slide the trail foot back but we will just see. I might have to incorporate the slapshot foot slide into a practice swing/pre-shot thing. Currently I don't really take practice swings at all unless the lie is strange or it is a pitch shot. 

[Goober]

On 7/15/2024 at 9:38 AM, vandyland said:

Well about halfway through my vacation with no golf clubs and I have been doing the broom force stuff everyday. I can feel how my lower body wants to take over and how the slapshot/nike drill should really be helpful in combating that. I am still curious if I can get that feel to carry over effectively into a swing that doesn't slide the trail foot back but we will just see. I might have to incorporate the slapshot foot slide into a practice swing/pre-shot thing. Currently I don't really take practice swings at all unless the lie is strange or it is a pitch shot. 

Power shift and Broom Force solved many question marks I had 

[vandyland]

Played 9 holes this weekend and had one of the best ballstriking rounds I can remember. Hit 6/6 fairways and 8/9 greens (all pars, no bogeys). All I have been working on for the past 8 days is Broomforce (without a golf club, just a broom) and doing the slapshot drill and a few other drills. There is one particular Lesson ("Joseph") that was a guy that had a lot of my same faults. So I watched his lesson with monte everyday almost and just focused on those items. Nothing lasts forever but I truly felt like I was in complete control of my full swing. Probably hit 1 not great shot and got away with it. Really glad I bought the series and I am looking forward to some range time now because I was striping the ball this past weekend. 

[Goober]

I like those lessons at end of all Monte’s video series.One thing I found with broom force that Monte confirmed to me via email helped.When doing the opening broom drills you have to do it with slightly level shoulder feel.If I drop the broom behind me on the ground and sweep.Than I tend to dip the right shoulder too low thru and past the hit area.He said don’t go to extremes, and make it as simple as using a broom.The longer we do this simple drill the more it corrects others areas as well.It makes you open,not early extend,promotes a pro impact position,speed after ball. So many good things can come from this without even using a ball.Seems like a perfect drill for late fall,winter early spring for me in my garage 

Edited July 27 by Goober

[vandyland]

Played 18 on Sunday and shot a rather poor score for me but there were flashes in there of the ball doing exactly what I want so that will be my takeaway for now. Hitting two balls OB off the tee was a low point. Also managed to make a 7 on a par 5 without any penalties....which is hard to do. 

Currently working on the sledgehammer drill from Monte and trying to not move my hips AT ALL in the downswing (which of course is impossible) but by restricting my hips it gives my hands and arms a chance to sync up. Getting the hips turning early and/or out front of the hands is a death move for me. 

[vandyland]

I have a member/guest coming up in 60 days so I am going to try to commit to the following to get ready for it:

- Hit 75+ range balls per week (preferably outside but will use the Trackman indoor studio if weather demands it)
- Dedicated swing mechanics practice/drills into net 4x per week
- Hit 30 putts 4x per week
- Hit 50+ chips per week
- Play from farther back to challenge my driving and longer irons. 6,300 - 6,500 yds instead of my normal 5,900 - 6,200 yds. 

For me, not an overly aggressive plan. Just ensures that I hit live balls on the range at least one large bucket or two small buckets per week. Also, makes me work on my putting again which I had not been doing. That will be on a putt out mat. 

[vandyland]

Yesterday hit 60 balls and rolled 40 putts. Overall swing felt pretty good, albeit it was 80% short and mid irons mostly. The putter needed some attention as I have started swaying my hips a little in my putting but day 1 of the "plan" is off to a flying start. 

[vandyland]

Got on the MLM2Pro for some “pressure” shots from 155 yds (8 iron) and had some really good contacg and results:

Carry was a little all over the place but overall some good smash factors and decent dispersion. Hit the target 10/11 times. 

[vandyland]

Hit balls yesterday (40-70 yd pitch shots) and today (80-120-160 yd shots) so I am well on pace for my range time this first week. I was hitting balls into the net last night as well and noticed that my early extension was back in a big way. I believe one of the reasons is that my posture/setup had gotten wonky. I had too much anterior pelvic tilt in my swing, I believe:

This was causing me to early extend just to get back to a neutral spine position the other way (i.e. posterior tilt almost). As Monte says, early extension is usually caused by an upstream swing fault and the extension is required just to hit the ball solidly. 

So today I went and hit range balls trying to have a more neutral  exaggerated, almost posterior tilted spine and I had less early extension but was hitting the ball poorly. Oh well, that is usually how it goes when you change anything. As with golf, two steps forward X number of steps back constantly. The answer is probably somewhere in the middle. 

I managed to stay in contact with the "wall" better but it was interesting how my backswing immediately got flatter from changing my low back posture. It may come from losing or not maintain my spine angle as well now that I don't have the firm lower back. Ahhhhh, the golf swing....

Edited August 2 by vandyland

[vandyland]

Hit balls for an hour in the Trackman bay on Sunday. Hit short pitch shots for 25 minutes and then hit balls on the range this AM (50 balls, 9 iron and SW). Also hit 50 balls Saturday and Sunday night on the Rapsodo MLM. 

Working on SEVERAL things that I believe will pay dividends: 

(1) Making my grip weaker. It has gotten quite strong in the last year and I believe it is impacting my start line and my ability to hinge my wrists. 
(2) Taking out the S curve in my low back at setup. My rear end should not be way behind my heels as that will push me into EE both in my backswing and my downswing
(3) Early wrist set. I have to keep coming back to this because otherwise the Low/slow creeps back into my swing and I end up downcocking in the downswing. I want to "feel" like my wrist set is done at waist high and then I just turn to the top. 

I am going to check against my weekly list of things to do so far. 

On 7/30/2024 at 1:08 PM, vandyland said:

- Hit 75+ range balls per week (preferably outside but will use the Trackman indoor studio if weather demands it)
- Dedicated swing mechanics practice/drills into net 4x per week
- Hit 30 putts 4x per week
- Hit 50+ chips per week
- Play from farther back to challenge my driving and longer irons. 6,300 - 6,500 yds instead of my normal 5,900 - 6,200 yds. 

Range balls - check
Swing mechanics into net - check
Hitting putts - only at 2x this week so even if I do it tonight (I will) I am going to miss this one
50+ chips - check
Play from farther back (didn't get to play this weekend) - N/A

Hit some beautiful shots on the range (and some stinkers as always with changes), but I am noticing it is easier to start my ball right and have it draw back. Even with the weaker grip I am not seeing any unintentional fades BUT I feel like with the weaker grip I can "work" the ball a bit easier. I can hit a hold off cut if I want to which was pretty much impossible with the really strong grip. 

[vandyland]

Hit balls last night using this Feel:

https://www.instagram.com/reel/C8jwdMjuzri/?igsh=cGwzbnlvNWU3cTQ0
 

Which is the Monte cast just explained slight differently. Using the thumbs as my initiator in the cast was helping. Also, I am working on chipping with the shaft leaned forward again. I got very into the “use the bounce” chipping with a vertical shaft but I don’t think I want/need to use that exclusively. Seems like both methods work depending on situation/pin location/lie.

Also wrote down the things I am "working on" in my swing and the list is growing again:
Cleaning up my grip
Less S curve in low back at address and trying to have hips closer to being over the heel
Early wrist set/hands moving first in backswing
Thumbs down toward 4 oclock (or 8 oclock in Monte speak)
Keeping hips relatively quiet in downswing
 

Edited August 7 by vandyland

[Donn lost in San Diego]

On 8/2/2024 at 8:48 AM, vandyland said:

Hit balls yesterday (40-70 yd pitch shots) and today (80-120-160 yd shots) so I am well on pace for my range time this first week. I was hitting balls into the net last night as well and noticed that my early extension was back in a big way. I believe one of the reasons is that my posture/setup had gotten wonky. I had too much anterior pelvic tilt in my swing, I believe:

This was causing me to early extend just to get back to a neutral spine position the other way (i.e. posterior tilt almost). As Monte says, early extension is usually caused by an upstream swing fault and the extension is required just to hit the ball solidly. 

So today I went and hit range balls trying to have a more neutral  exaggerated, almost posterior tilted spine and I had less early extension but was hitting the ball poorly. Oh well, that is usually how it goes when you change anything. As with golf, two steps forward X number of steps back constantly. The answer is probably somewhere in the middle. 

I managed to stay in contact with the "wall" better but it was interesting how my backswing immediately got flatter from changing my low back posture. It may come from losing or not maintain my spine angle as well now that I don't have the firm lower back. Ahhhhh, the golf swing....

The Alexander Technique is a method for learning anatomically proper movement and balance.  It is not highly promoted.  It only takes a few lessons if you take it seriously.  Sort of like slow motion yoga.  many entertainers are trained in it.  It will improve your ingrained posture, movement and golf.

[vandyland]

Hit the range this morning for 45 minutes of hitting PW at 80% and working on downswing feels. I will take this wear mark any day.

The range itself is a “self-picking” range but is well kept. You take your shag bag and go pick up your balls after you cycle through them. The teeing/hitting area is real grass, flat/level and gets mowed frequently. Since it is a pick up your own balls range it doesn't get chewed up that much. I like it because you have to pay attention to where you hit your golf balls AND you don't just mindlessly hit them because you will have to go out there and pick them up. The only downside is you can't hit woods here (sign prohibits it) because the range only extends 250 yds to a fence. I could still hit my 4 wood with now fear here but out of respect I do not. 

This has become part of my morning routine (when it is not raining and I have time) as it is on the way to work. Hit 30-40 balls, pick them up and then glide into work. 

Also, as an update, I am part of the testing group for the HackMotion sensor so I will be using it out here quite a bit. Very excited. 

Edited August 8 by vandyland

[vandyland]

Range again today, fantastic session.

beautiful draws, just great contact. All I was worried about was square (to my spine angle) clubface in the backswing and my cast in the downswing. Just amazing stuff. Hit 50 balls and was in love with about 48 of them. 
 

[vandyland]

Was excited to play on Saturday but shot 85. Strangely, hit the ball quite well and I am encouraged even though it was one of my highest differentials in the last 18 months. My ball flight was EXACTLY what have I have been chasing (for the most part), a push draw. Finally. Unfortunately the greens were nuclear fast and I had 4 3 putts. Oh well, golf.

Current swing, I am especially proud of how shallow I get coming into the ball:

Here are some older swings and it shows how steep my shaft would get coming into the ball:

And now here:

Edited August 11 by vandyland

[vandyland]

I have hit balls the last 3 days but I also now have my HackMotion. So this will become a hackmotion heavy process thread. I am also participating in the test so I may cross post stuff between here and there. The summary of my first foray into HackMotion is that my top of the swing position is pretty good! But when I come into impact I am on the edge of acceptable. Apparently I am too flexed (i.e. coming in with hands ahead) and they want me more in extension. See this picture:

So they gave me some drills to work on to get more extension into my swing. Mainly from P6 through impact as I work up to a full swing. What's funny is I worked to get this extension OUT OF my swing so I think putting it back in will be easy, so long as I don't overdo it. 

Edited August 15 by vandyland

[cnosil]

5 minutes ago, vandyland said:

 

. 

 

That seems like an odd impact position to me….but what do I know.   

[vandyland]

8 minutes ago, cnosil said:

That seems like an odd impact position to me….but what do I know.

I totally agree. I am interested to see what it does to my actual ballflight. The one thing I am fighting right now is a push which I could see being potentially fixed by this. One caveat, I am generally in the "zone" at impact, this was two swings out of 11 where I was barely too much into flexion so I think this is just a "feel" that I shouldn't take too far. 

[vandyland]

Have been playing around with the HackMotion sensor and I have come to the conclusion that the device encourages a "no conscious wrist set" kind of swing. Basically, my wrists set naturally but I don't "early wrist" set or force in some position. I take the club away square to my spine angle (which appears slightly closed) and when I get to the top I cast/motorcycle move whatever you want to call it into the downswing. My initial fears were that if I didn't have a big wrist set I wouldn't be able to generate any club head speed. Well that proved incorrect...

Okay, so clubhead speed and distance...check. For a 9 iron, 85 mph and 150 carry is pretty good. Also still my desired shot shape and all that. Okay but what does it do to my HackMotion chart? My "active wrist set" swing on the left vs this no wrist set swing on the right:

The main thing to notice is the Ulnar/Radial deviation (green line) which is largely the same shape but no longer crosses the flexion/extension line (orange). Typing this out sounds dumb but makes sense to me currently. I may have to explore this no active wrist set swing...for science. 

Edited August 20 by vandyland

[vandyland]

I have now used the HackMotion for a week straight. My main concern going into it was that it was going to "mess up my swing" because I thought I was playing fairly well at the time. As with anything in improvement, it is forcing me into a change but I am all in at least right now. The ranges the HackMotion is forcing me into are challenging but also kind of liberating. It feels like there is less active manipulation on my part when I am hitting the ranges. 

I have been hitting a lot of balls and I actually got to play golf yesterday. Ball was flying great on the range and for the first 9 holes (shot 34 on the front), things came unraveled on the back with a 45 (3 balls hit OB) but I am trying to not overreact to that. Improvement in golf is usually two steps forward / one step back kind of thing. My position at the top still looks quite good (to me) and my distances are the same if not longer so all that is good news. 

 

[vandyland]

Played golf on Sunday and it was very similar to my mid week round. I hit another 3 balls out of bounds and shot 80 (all things considered shooting 80 with 3 balls OB is pretty good)! However, I also hit some of the best shots I have hit in a while and my "window" that the ball is coming out of (especially with the driver) is much better. I think I am still struggling to find the muscle memory for where my wrists should be set at the top of the backswing but I kind of "found it" a bit better on the back 9. Hit a drive on #17 that ended up being 329 yards total...that is a long drive by my standards. I am now back to feeling like the club is "toe up" at P2 in my backswing which allows for a bit more rotation in more forearms and I think that is where I am getting some additional power. 

[vandyland]

22 hours ago, vandyland said:

I am now back to feeling like the club is "toe up" at P2 in my backswing which allows for a bit more rotation in more forearms and I think that is where I am getting some additional power. 

Nevermind on this, found this HackMotion video saying the opposite:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2GSIM5b0PnE

So I am back to matching my spine angle I guess? I am just having trouble not being too flexed at the top of my swing (i.e. too bowed). It is also hard to replicate the feels from one day to the next and hit the HackMotion targets.

Hypothesis #1 - the HackMotion sensor is too close to my wrist bone and that is throwing off the measurements AND we are rotating the forearms too much through impact which is causing the ball to go left. So the solve for that is measuring the 1 inch from my wrist bone with a ruler, marking it with a sharpie -- and for the forearms I am going to experiment with a more held off finish to see if that helps my ball start on line or even slightly right?

 

Edited August 27 by vandyland

[vandyland]

So held off finish worked well yesterday, basically trying this idea of slowing my forearm rotation at impact and trying to keep the turn more connected. Impact felt "crisper" but also, potentially, steeper. Will have to get on trackman at some point but it seemed like clubhead speed was faster as the braking of hands coming into impact kind of "whips" the clubhead through. Anyway, hit 60 range balls and liked the flight on them for the most part. 

Still struggling a bit with the HackMotion as I kind of "live" in flexion at the top of my swing. The slowing of the forearm rotation helped me get a little closer to my address position so, in both ballflight and HackMotion terms, that is a positive change. It is a bit strange feeling on the driver I must say. 

[vandyland]

Had a truly thrilling short game session today (I always get carried away with good sessions) but I want to point out a few feels that served me well today:

- Limiting forearm rotation through impact gave my clubhead speed a slight boost and was CLEARLY additive for spin on pitch and chip shots, just need to make sure I don't get too jerky with that hand braking into impact

- This feel extended into my bunker play which was STELLAR today in practice 25/25 shots out of the greenside bunker and on the green with 21/25 finishing within 6 feet and I had 2 that were 10+ feet away from the hole...that NEVER happens for me in practice

- Keeping the clubface square to my spine angle and focusing on rotating through impact

Edited August 28 by vandyland

[Goober]

16 hours ago, vandyland said:

So held off finish worked well yesterday, basically trying this idea of slowing my forearm rotation at impact and trying to keep the turn more connected. Impact felt "crisper" but also, potentially, steeper. Will have to get on trackman at some point but it seemed like clubhead speed was faster as the braking of hands coming into impact kind of "whips" the clubhead through. Anyway, hit 60 range balls and liked the flight on them for the most part. 

Still struggling a bit with the HackMotion as I kind of "live" in flexion at the top of my swing. The slowing of the forearm rotation helped me get a little closer to my address position so, in both ballflight and HackMotion terms, that is a positive change. It is a bit strange feeling on the driver I must say. 

You ever considered that gem training aid ?

[cnosil]

21 hours ago, vandyland said:

 

Still struggling a bit with the HackMotion as I kind of "live" in flexion at the top of my swing. The slowing of the forearm rotation helped me get a little closer to my address position so, in both ballflight and HackMotion terms, that is a positive change. It is a bit strange feeling on the driver I must say. 

Don’t take this as a bad thing, but Just reading your posts about the hackmotion has confirmed that it is something that I don’t want.  I like to know details, but I think it would make me chase numbers too much.   

[vandyland]

1 hour ago, cnosil said:

Don’t take this as a bad thing, but Just reading your posts about the hackmotion has confirmed that it is something that I don’t want.  I like to know details, but I think it would make me chase numbers too much.   

I think it is important to know how and what you respond well to and I think it is just as important to (fairly) extol the virtues and drawbacks of a device. If I saved you from being disappointed in a certain technology then I consider that job done. I will organize my thoughts over the next few weeks but currently I don't think the HackMotion is helpful if not combined with professional instruction. They can tell you that your wrist angles are off but not really how to get there. Yes there are drills to practice getting in the right spots but you could be cheating to get there or causing another downstream problem. For me, someone who OBSESSES over the golf swing but doesn't have a great mastery over my technique...this has kind of pushed me into a vortex. I will say I think it fixed my over rotation of my forearms in the downswing. But the backswing....I am currently at odds with the HackMotion. I am *tempted* to call in Monte Schienblum and pay for a lesson just with the HackMotion to test my theory as to whether this device couples well with an instructor. Seems only fair since I received the device for free. 

6 hours ago, Goober said:

You ever considered that gem training aid 

This may speak more to my way of learning or lack thereof but I have never really had a training aid that I would consider a "success". Orange whip, blast motion putter trainer, smart ball, wrist hanger, swing setter, putting mirror, puttout pressure trainer...all of that stuff is collecting dust. 

 

 

Edited August 29 by vandyland

[vandyland]

Hit balls last night without the HackMotion and just focused on that impact feel and position and gradually worked up to full speed. My first shot at full speed was, well, amazing for me with a 9i.

Started just right and drew back in, 147 yd carry with a 85 ft apex and ended one yd offline. Spin is a little low but I would not say that spin always feels accurate with the rapsodo. Going to try to play 9 holes soon and see if I can translate this onto the course. Feeling especially confident (overconfident?) in my short game.

[cnosil]

51 minutes ago, vandyland said:

but currently I don't think the HackMotion is helpful if not combined with professional instruction. They can tell you that your wrist angles are off but not really how to get there. Yes there are drills to practice getting in the right spots but you could be cheating to get there or causing another downstream problem.

That is/was kind of my thought.  I see myself getting into those I need to fix this deep dives when doing most wanted testing.   I see the launch numbers and then will start trying to fix them especially when my face angle starts to get a bit wonky.   I am changing things but not sure  am changing the right thing.   Kind of like Monte’s post from the other day on another forum about players doing post shot assessments.