How to really choose between driver models

[jimmurphy99]

Hi All,

Joined the forum to get some more info from you about the best way to go about selecting a new driver. My problem is that all the latest models from the top manufacturers are pretty much all 5 stars in the various reviews. Most reviews also have a very generic commentary so it is nearly impossible (for me anyway) to determine which one would suit me best. So I have read all about demo days and even attended one here in NY a few weekends ago. BUT to me it was kind of unsatisfactory...never really getting a chance to test the club in a "live" environment, not getting enough time with the various clubs, not being able to "tweak" the clubs to my style (or lack thereof), hitting clubs that still have tape on them etc.

So just reaching out to see what your thoughts are and how you go about selecting the driver best suited to your game.

Thanks

[RoverRick]

Jimmurphy you have come to the right place. The best way to do it is watch the commercial, then go grab one off the rack, do not swing it, do not get fitted, just grab and go.

 

OR

 

I do not think they have the irons and other club part done yet but I know for a fact that you can go to MyGolfSpy main page, can't get there from the forums that I know of, and under reviews look at compare clubs.

 

http://www.mygolfspy.com/compare-drivers/

 

 

They have done all the work all you have to do is pay for it and you get the best driver in the world.

 

Actually, you or a professional who watches you swing are the only ones who can answer that, but you can see which has the most forgiveness if that is what you need, or most workablity if that is what you are after. This of course is only the starting point. But it is by far the best starting point there is.

[RoverRick]

As far as your poll goes, I buy a driver fully intending to change the shaft. Since I know that the stock shafts are not for me, I lied in the poll because I may or may not swing it. I will swing a simular one to see if I like the head, but if I were going to buy a new one or one that happened to have a shaft I liked I would swing it if I had a chance.

[GolfSpy WD]

Get fit.

 

If you are the type of person who fits well with off the rack stuff, then you can't go wrong with last years models. If you think you'll need a custom shaft option, go with whatever driver suits your eye and you like the feel/sound (if you care). Most drivers have enough custom shaft options so you'll get a good fit.

 

If you feel your fitter is rushing you, then go somewhere else. You're spending big money and should take time to figure out what's best. Alternatively, go during a week day when they aren't busy and don't mind spending a long time helping you out.

[JMiller]

I select a driver head based on technical performance, at 110mph and higher swing speeds you start having to consider Center of Gravity (CG), true loft, weight of the head, angle of attack, backspin rpm, etc.

 

If it matters to you because you are over 110mph (like me), Here is an explanation of what I mean.

~ C.G. / true sweet spot

--> the location where if you sit the head with no shaft in it on a pen that is vertical standing in a clamp it will balance perfectly on the pen without falling

--> this spot is almost always on a driver going to be 1/8" to 1/4" above the physical center of the face where max C.o.R. is found.

 

~ True Loft

--> This is the loft where the sweet spot was found and is measured

--> The center of the club might measure 9.5* but the sweet spot could measure 12* of loft

--> face roll is different for every head and the true loft is measured at the sweet spot for the head, face roll is amount from sole to crown of curve.

--> for a 115mph SS you probably don't needs 12* of loft at the C.G. point give you high launch angle and high spin if you have a positive angle of attack.

 

~ Vertical Gear Effect

--> The higher the swing speed the more this comes into play, slower swing speeds don't need to worry about it

--> When the ball is hit BELLOW the sweet spot, the launch angle is lower and spin is higher then optimal

--> When the ball is hit ABOVE the face the launch is higher and the spin id lower then optimal

--> There is a point of diminishing returns with spin, 1/4" low miss on a driver head at a 120mph SS could mean adding 1000 RPM of backspin

 

~ OEM Tolerances / Design

--> Companies have a +/- 1* up to 1.5* tolerance on loft of clubs, 9.5* stamped could be 8* to 11* you never know.

--> Roll of the face and true CG you might be playing something with too little or too much loft for your swing.

--> Design can effect C.o.R. at the point of the Sweet Spot. Ping G5 has a dig in the heel where the heel is shorter in height then the toe, this places the Sweet Spot closer to the edge reducing C.o.R. at that point. In other words it is a stupid idea to buy a driver on the way it looks it could cost you distance.

 

 

So you could be costing yourself 10 - 50 yards of distance by randomly selecting a driver head off the rack and not being fitted for one if you swing at 110mph or higher, it is simple the more you want from your equipment the more you have to spend time to get it perfect

[Matt Saternus]

It all depends on how seriously you take your game, to what extent you want to be optimized, and how much you want to spend. As I see it, you've got three choices:

 

1) Go to a dedicated club fitter (Club Champion, Cool Clubs, etc). These people fit clubs all day long, they have the best equipment (in terms of launch monitors and clubs to test), and they can likely put any shaft into any head. This is the only way to find a truly optimal combination. The downside: these places are not always easy to find (depends where you live) and it's expensive. The fitting alone can be $100 or more, and then the combination you end up with will likely be another $500 or more.

 

2) Get fit at a big box. If you find a good, knowledgeable person, this is a good option. They will not have the most options in terms of mixing heads and shafts, but they should have a decent launch monitor and the ability to help you decide what club works best for you. You probably won't be squeezing every yard out of your swing, but it's way better than nothing. You usually won't have to pay for the fitting if you buy the club from them.

 

3) Go to an outdoor demo day, bang away with lots of clubs, buy the one that seems to work the best.

 

Of course there are some variations that land between these three, but this pretty well covers the bases.

[GolfSpy WD]

Not all big box stores are created equal though. Golf Galaxy seems to be the best and they use Trackman monitors. Beware of Dicks or any place with a no name monitor, since it could easily be rigged.

 

Also, force yourself to try a few clubs, even if you love the first one.

[GolfSpy Barbajo]

Ditto on all the above advice -- getting fit is the best option. If you're going to spend $300, why not spend a little more to make sure you have something that's tailored to you? A good fitter will give you lots of options and will ultimately come up with some suggestions that you can run with.

 

Either that or buy "The Hammer!"

[GolfSpy Barbajo]

Ditto on all the above advice -- getting fit is the best option. If you're going to spend $300, why not spend a little more to make sure you have something that's tailored to you? A good fitter will give you lots of options and will ultimately come up with some suggestions that you can run with.

 

Either that or buy "The Hammer!"

[JMiller]

When it comes down to a launch monitor it is about positioning and accuracy more then name brand.

 

Trackman is a great tool but works best outdoors, the specs on it have a minimum of 17' deep hitting area, I have heard that indoors track man needs around 20' for SS less then 120mph on their website they say optimal is 26'2" if that tells you anything, I also have heard that at over 120mph to get the best reads you need about 40' long space that is just not real likely to find indoors majority of hitting areas are about 10 - 15' long.

 

If the camera position is above your head (like Martins PGA Superstore Myrtle Beach) then first I can't see how it can read launch angle effectively when it is above your head. Think about it logically, how does a 2D picture read a vertical 3D plane when it is positioned above you 'top down' so to speak? Not to mention that this simulators are terrible about reading distance, spin and even picking up TM white crowned heads. I had issues with it on my Adams Fast 12 LS gray crowned head as well getting it to read properly.

 

GolfSmith and a few other companies are moving to the Foresight Sports launch monitor that supposedly reads the dimples on the golf ball and doesn't require a given space for a hitting area, plus they are way less expensive then a Trackman radar based setup --> http://www.foresightsports.com/

 

Ask the shop what type of launch monitor they have and do research on the accuracy of that machine, if it takes drawing lines on the ball and cameras positioned above your head, I would seriously question the accuracy of that machine. Take Martins PGA Superstore, those machines are worthless for fitting and testing equipment, you literly have to get a baseline by bring in your current stuff to get a read from it to be able to compare something properly on them.

[Matt Saternus]

Not all big box stores are created equal though. Golf Galaxy seems to be the best and they use Trackman monitors. Beware of Dicks or any place with a no name monitor, since it could easily be rigged.

 

Also, force yourself to try a few clubs, even if you love the first one.

 

Galaxy has Trackman? Where? In my experience the simulators in Golf Galaxy are the most jacked up I've ever used (meaning that I can top one and it will still go 300). If they're upgrading, good on them.

 

As someone else mentioned, Golfsmith is moving to Foresight which is a damned good LM, too.

[GolfSpy WD]

Galaxy has Trackman? Where? In my experience the simulators in Golf Galaxy are the most jacked up I've ever used (meaning that I can top one and it will still go 300). If they're upgrading, good on them.

 

As someone else mentioned, Golfsmith is moving to Foresight which is a damned good LM, too.

 

The one in Burlington, MA has a Trackman. I don't like their camera based system, it adds too much distance for draws and takes away too much for fades. You can only get accurate readings for shots straight down the middle. I'm also not totally sure their sales staff always knows what they're talking about, but they fit using Mizuno's Optimizer and Ping's putter app, so that takes away a bit of the human element. I think for everything else, you should educate yourself as to what good numbers are.

 

http://mytrackman.com/TrackMan.Online.DrivingRange/PGANumbers.html

[JMiller]

Trackman III is camera based and does better indoors but still needs 3.5m (roughly 11'6" minimal) of space for the ball to fly for it to read. The older Trackman II model that is radar based is going to need a lot more room depending on swing speed. Here is the requirements http://www.trackman.dk/homestudio/requirements.php

 

Anything that is reading the ball flight from ground level is going to be more accurate then one that reads it above your head in terms of spin and launch angles. A lot of people electing to go with Foresight as it costs about $6500 and Trackman is about $18,000, great bang for your buck in the Foresight LM.

[fozcycle]

Not all big box stores are created equal though. Golf Galaxy seems to be the best and they use Trackman monitors. Beware of Dicks or any place with a no name monitor, since it could easily be rigged.

 

Also, force yourself to try a few clubs, even if you love the first one.

 

 

Isn't Dick's and Golf Galaxy the same company?

[GolfSpy WD]

Isn't Dick's and Golf Galaxy the same company?

 

Dick's owns GG, GG owns Golfworks, therefore Dick's owns Golfworks. All three have different business models. Dicks has a lot less selection. I like going to GG mainly because they also stock parts for building clubs and can order pretty much anything you want from Golfworks.

[jimmurphy99]

Get fit.

 

If you are the type of person who fits well with off the rack stuff, then you can't go wrong with last years models. If you think you'll need a custom shaft option, go with whatever driver suits your eye and you like the feel/sound (if you care). Most drivers have enough custom shaft options so you'll get a good fit.

 

If you feel your fitter is rushing you, then go somewhere else. You're spending big money and should take time to figure out what's best. Alternatively, go during a week day when they aren't busy and don't mind spending a long time helping you out.

 

 

Good advice and this is kind of what I do now. As a recent transplant from Ireland to the US my experience back home was that the local golf shop would do a lot of this for you but the range of clubs to demo was never that good. But ehre the shops are so much bigger with bigger range etc. BUT the service isn't quite as personal and yes there is an element of being rushed!

[jimmurphy99]

I select a driver head based on technical performance, at 110mph and higher swing speeds you start having to consider Center of Gravity (CG), true loft, weight of the head, angle of attack, backspin rpm, etc.

 

If it matters to you because you are over 110mph (like me), Here is an explanation of what I mean.

~ C.G. / true sweet spot

--> the location where if you sit the head with no shaft in it on a pen that is vertical standing in a clamp it will balance perfectly on the pen without falling

--> this spot is almost always on a driver going to be 1/8" to 1/4" above the physical center of the face where max C.o.R. is found.

 

~ True Loft

--> This is the loft where the sweet spot was found and is measured

--> The center of the club might measure 9.5* but the sweet spot could measure 12* of loft

--> face roll is different for every head and the true loft is measured at the sweet spot for the head, face roll is amount from sole to crown of curve.

--> for a 115mph SS you probably don't needs 12* of loft at the C.G. point give you high launch angle and high spin if you have a positive angle of attack.

 

~ Vertical Gear Effect

--> The higher the swing speed the more this comes into play, slower swing speeds don't need to worry about it

--> When the ball is hit BELLOW the sweet spot, the launch angle is lower and spin is higher then optimal

--> When the ball is hit ABOVE the face the launch is higher and the spin id lower then optimal

--> There is a point of diminishing returns with spin, 1/4" low miss on a driver head at a 120mph SS could mean adding 1000 RPM of backspin

 

~ OEM Tolerances / Design

--> Companies have a +/- 1* up to 1.5* tolerance on loft of clubs, 9.5* stamped could be 8* to 11* you never know.

--> Roll of the face and true CG you might be playing something with too little or too much loft for your swing.

--> Design can effect C.o.R. at the point of the Sweet Spot. Ping G5 has a dig in the heel where the heel is shorter in height then the toe, this places the Sweet Spot closer to the edge reducing C.o.R. at that point. In other words it is a stupid idea to buy a driver on the way it looks it could cost you distance.

 

 

So you could be costing yourself 10 - 50 yards of distance by randomly selecting a driver head off the rack and not being fitted for one if you swing at 110mph or higher, it is simple the more you want from your equipment the more you have to spend time to get it perfect

 

 

Thanks for this info! Just as well I did some physics in school...But seriously appreciate this. What is becoming clear is that it is all about taking time to really try out the various options and also to get them fitted...trouble of course is that it is not that easy to do that. Hence the initial post - so difficult to really be able to demo clubs for any length of time.

Thanks

[jimmurphy99]

It all depends on how seriously you take your game, to what extent you want to be optimized, and how much you want to spend. As I see it, you've got three choices:

 

1) Go to a dedicated club fitter (Club Champion, Cool Clubs, etc). These people fit clubs all day long, they have the best equipment (in terms of launch monitors and clubs to test), and they can likely put any shaft into any head. This is the only way to find a truly optimal combination. The downside: these places are not always easy to find (depends where you live) and it's expensive. The fitting alone can be $100 or more, and then the combination you end up with will likely be another $500 or more.

 

2) Get fit at a big box. If you find a good, knowledgeable person, this is a good option. They will not have the most options in terms of mixing heads and shafts, but they should have a decent launch monitor and the ability to help you decide what club works best for you. You probably won't be squeezing every yard out of your swing, but it's way better than nothing. You usually won't have to pay for the fitting if you buy the club from them.

 

3) Go to an outdoor demo day, bang away with lots of clubs, buy the one that seems to work the best.

 

Of course there are some variations that land between these three, but this pretty well covers the bases.

 

 

Appreciate the info. and agree with most of what you say. I do get some suggestions though that swapping out shafts can potentially damage the heads etc. and that ideally the manufacturers (of course) don't recommend doing this. Any thoughts?

[Phana24JG]

Good advice and this is kind of what I do now. As a recent transplant from Ireland to the US my experience back home was that the local golf shop would do a lot of this for you but the range of clubs to demo was never that good. But ehre the shops are so much bigger with bigger range etc. BUT the service isn't quite as personal and yes there is an element of being rushed!

 

Jim, Depending upon your budget and how extensive a demo you want, I can suggest three or four fairly good places in each area of the state(Monroe County, Albany County, Rockland County, or Suffolk County) where you can get a Trackman and/or Flightscope outdoor fitting.You may not opt to BUY at these locations, but they would give you and your fitter all the info you need to have the best chance to select the right club.

[Matt Saternus]

Appreciate the info. and agree with most of what you say. I do get some suggestions though that swapping out shafts can potentially damage the heads etc. and that ideally the manufacturers (of course) don't recommend doing this. Any thoughts?

 

The high ends fitters aren't gluing and pulling the shafts every time; they have systems such as Club Connex that allows them to put any shaft with any head with a wrench.

[JMiller]

Martins PGA Superstore in Myrtle Beach will allow a 48 hour demo of clubs. You just have to leave a credit card number with them in the case you don't return it in 2 days they charge you for the club, so you could get 2 - 4 rounds in over 48 hours if you wanted on the demo, you could also just go back and say you'd like to demo it for another 48 hours they normally won't care depending on demand as long as they see it's still in good condition.

 

Really measuring everything is not an option but you can take 3-5 different heads on the same model and get one that seems to be giving you the best most consistent numbers and pair it with a good shaft that fits your swing.

 

What sucks about Drivers is OEM shafts are just as bad about tolerances as the head, I have seen one that had 'stiff' on it CPM to a Senior flex and another CPM to a X-Stiff, You can't trust the head and you can't trust the loft isn't that just the $300v - $500 quality you were expecting

[GolfSpy Tim]

I'm just about to write up my review of doing a fitting with Fujikura - if you're trying to decide which driver, I would suggest trying to find a shaft manufacturer that might offer fittings - they often have heads from all the major OEMs and will find the head that performs best for you as well as their shaft.

 

But, this is the more expensive route to go

[Super Tuna]

I'm just about to write up my review of doing a fitting with Fujikura - if you're trying to decide which driver, I would suggest trying to find a shaft manufacturer that might offer fittings - they often have heads from all the major OEMs and will find the head that performs best for you as well as their shaft.

 

But, this is the more expensive route to go

 

Usually that's less about the expense and more about the location. It might be tricky to find good fitters somewhere but that's probably easier then going directly to Fujikura, Aldila, Miyazaki, etc. That being said, if it's an option I think it's probably the better one to go.

[jimmurphy99]

The high ends fitters aren't gluing and pulling the shafts every time; they have systems such as Club Connex that allows them to put any shaft with any head with a wrench.

 

Thanks for the info. Matt

[jimmurphy99]

Martins PGA Superstore in Myrtle Beach will allow a 48 hour demo of clubs. You just have to leave a credit card number with them in the case you don't return it in 2 days they charge you for the club, so you could get 2 - 4 rounds in over 48 hours if you wanted on the demo, you could also just go back and say you'd like to demo it for another 48 hours they normally won't care depending on demand as long as they see it's still in good condition.

 

Really measuring everything is not an option but you can take 3-5 different heads on the same model and get one that seems to be giving you the best most consistent numbers and pair it with a good shaft that fits your swing.

 

What sucks about Drivers is OEM shafts are just as bad about tolerances as the head, I have seen one that had 'stiff' on it CPM to a Senior flex and another CPM to a X-Stiff, You can't trust the head and you can't trust the loft isn't that just the $300v - $500 quality you were expecting

 

Thanks for this info. Will have to check them out the next time I make it to MB...

[JMiller]

Thanks for this info. Will have to check them out the next time I make it to MB...

 

I was just saying maybe your local shop will do something like that I don't know can't hurt to ask them about it.