Any 8+ handicaps that play Ping i230 irons?

[Franc38]

On 9/6/2023 at 9:09 PM, brogies said:

If the information was useless, manufacturers and reviewers wouldn't list who clubs are for based on handicap ranges/estimates. There are definitely suggested categories of clubs based on skill level. Not really interested in debating this any further, but to say it's almost useless ignores what the vast majority of the industry does. 

The industry gives that information this way because "most" golfers are "in the middle". It's a distribution and like most distribution the huge majority of observations are "about the centre". So if you pick a random 9 hcp, he'll likely have "a decent driving but not super long", "a decent iron game, with a bit too much fade", "a decent wedge game, with a good amount of thinnish and fattish shots in it" and a "decent putting game, often a bit too long and some miss-reads, generally low"... So if you design clubs for that type of player, selling them for "8 to 15 hcp" makes a lot of sense.

However, for the buyer, looking at the handicap doesn't make as much sense. You might have a very good putting stroke but a poor green reading ability. You might have a great iron play in terms of strike but a hard time controlling excessive curvature with said irons having a certain dispersion left to right and very little front to back, or a great iron play because it's super straight all the time but the contacts do move around a bit and you disperse front to back but little left to right. You might drive very reliably but short-ish, or be very long but spread it out... You'll need different clubs, probably.

Now, for irons, once you've looked at the lofts and lie angles, most player can play decently with most clubs, they just need a bit more time to adjust and the clubs will (or won't) serve as crutches "correcting" certain swing errors. If they won't, you'll have to adjust you swing (and you 'll do it, certainly, in a fairly short amount of time).

 

One of my best scores ever was on a hard course with rental clubs that were totally not what I play/need (big old TM M4 on soft/light "stiff" graphite). The first hole was funny (saved the bogey thanks to a great punch out after two MASSIVELY high hooks) but then I adapted and I didn't even think of the weirdness of the clubs past the 8th hole...

Edited September 8, 2023 by Franc38

[brogies]

1 hour ago, Franc38 said:

The industry gives that information this way because "most" golfers are "in the middle". It's a distribution and like most distribution the huge majority of observations are "about the centre". So if you pick a random 9 hcp, he'll likely have "a decent driving but not super long", "a decent iron game, with a bit too much fade", "a decent wedge game, with a good amount of thinnish and fattish shots in it" and a "decent putting game, often a bit too long and some miss-reads, generally low"... So if you design clubs for that type of player, selling them for "8 to 15 hcp" makes a lot of sense.

However, for the buyer, looking at the handicap doesn't make as much sense. You might have a very good putting stroke but a poor green reading ability. You might have a great iron play in terms of strike but a hard time controlling excessive curvature with said irons having a certain dispersion left to right and very little front to back, or a great iron play because it's super straight all the time but the contacts do move around a bit and you disperse front to back but little left to right. You might drive very reliably but short-ish, or be very long but spread it out... You'll need different clubs, probably.

Now, for irons, once you've looked at the lofts and lie angles, most player can play decently with most clubs, they just need a bit more time to adjust and the clubs will (or won't) serve as crutches "correcting" certain swing errors. If they won't, you'll have to adjust you swing (and you 'll do it, certainly, in a fairly short amount of time).

 

One of my best scores ever was on a hard course with rental clubs that were totally not what I play/need (big old TM M4 on soft/light "stiff" graphite). The first hole was funny (saved the bogey thanks to a great punch out after two MASSIVELY high hooks) but then I adapted and I didn't even think of the weirdness of the clubs past the 8th hole...

Yea, but again, in aggregate, better players tend to play player’s/player’s distance irons while higher handicaps tend to play the other end of the category. 

I haven’t met a fitter that doesn’t ask for your handicap/average scores as part of the fitting process to understand what category of iron to start out with testing.

I’m not trying to debate if handicaps are relevant to the club fitting process or what irons players play. Handicap gives a good starting point for the category and then the fitting process dials it in. I don’t think this is controversial as this has always been the fitting process (across multiple fitters) I’ve gone through.

The question still remains, but maybe I’ll update it so we don’t get bogged down debating other things. 

For anyone that owns i230 or even i210 irons, does their level of forgiveness *potentially* allow a decent range of players to play them? I.e. Are these only for elite ball strikers? Sorry if I sound frustrated, but it seems like a pretty straightforward question that a few have answered (thank you!!) and others want to proclaim an irrelevant question altogether. 

Maybe I’ll go test all the blades I can to confirm what I already know. Yep, not forgiving enough for my level of ball striking because, *generally*, they’re for professionals and elite amateurs. Being that I’m neither, someone that plays a blade could easily tell me based on my 9 handicap that “Yea, these probably aren’t for you,” rather than saying “Only way to know is try them out because handicap is irrelevant to the irons people play.”

 

[brogies]

2 hours ago, Franc38 said:

I'm a (tiny) bit below the range and I'd say: "don't worry too much about what you supposedly can and can't hit", that's largely marketing and golfers' self persuasion. I do play a combo set blades/shallow CB because I had been told so much that "we need more forgiveness in longer irons". Well, that's true... and not true. It is true for tour players, who would be unhappy with a club going 10 yards short on a mishit and would have that be 5 yards instead. Me? If I mishit an approach with a long iron and I'm close to the green, even if it's 10 yard short, I'm happy! I've found that this 10 yards to 5 yards is about all there is to "forgiveness"... That and the feeling when you mishit. With a "very forgiving game improvement club" you'll lose 5 yards and barely feel a difference, with a blade you'll lose 10 yards and have an atrocious feedback... "hurting your hands" (well, that again is fairly exaggerated).

I totally get that some people prefer having a "good feel" on all iron shots. I prefer knowing when I didn't catch the ball in the centre of the face. (plus, it's just delicious when I do). That said, I'm a 7-ish handicap with a good iron game, a very decent wedge game, an average putting (on the good days) and totally intermittent (if not outright missing) driving game. Some have a very decent driving, a good putting and weak-ish iron game... Given the massive importance in the "180 yards and in" shots on the score, iron play is bound to be very diverse in that handicap zone of the "not a very good player (yet) but not a bad one (anymore)"...

So if YOU try the i230 and feel good with them, don't worry, you're certainly good enough to play them and will perform better with clubs you like than clubs "that you should hit", if only because they will make you want to play and practice more!

Thank you!

[Rygolf32]

Guess I can chime in as an owner of i525's and a fairly consistent golfer...I have a 4-PW of i525's and kept my old i5 3 iron as I can hit it pure constantly, love that club.

Anyways, best advice no matter what anyone else says...go hit them. My old set before I upgraded were i5's that were probably 17 years old. I went in after doing research comparing a few blades with players/players distance irons and had them narrowed down before arriving (in my mind) to Ping i525's/230's, P790's, Miz 223's and T200's as well as blades from Ping/Mizuno and Titleist.

Spent almost 2 hours going through and hitting them all, hitting combos of low irons/high irons with blades/players/etc.

After everything, I came away loving the i525's the most. Ended up giving me about 10 yards more off the tee and I can work them way better than my i5's. Honestly, they feel very close to my old MP33's from when I was a good golfer 20+ years ago. Guess that's what technology can do! lol

 

Ultimately, I think going off of hdcp to choose anything is a bit of a farse...yes a 20 hdcp probably shouldn't be playing blades but every swing is different and it's hard to tell what would work best in each situation. Hell, I play a 5 year old Tour Exotics driver from Tour Edge (who was s*** when I was in high school/college lol) but when I hit probably 20 drivers at the time, that one came out significantly ahead for me in almost every category. Go get a fitting to make sure you have all of your specs correct and then hit them all with your needed setup (or as close as possible). That will truly give you an idea of what feels the best to you and which should help you score better!

[fixyurdivot]

On 9/5/2023 at 1:43 PM, brogies said:

I'm curious to hear opinions from more mid handicappers (8-14) who are playing i230s. How do you like them? Do you find they're forgiving enough for you? And do you have a combo set with something like the i525s or are you straight i230's through the bag? I've had my eye on the i230s since they were released, but I'm not entirely sure I'm a consistent enough ball striker yet to warrant that type of iron. But I've also heard people say that players up to 15+ handicaps could be gaming the i230s due to the forgiveness. Curious to hear people's opinions! 

And I guess I'll let better players chime in, too.

I don't play them but I did test them a couple of times at demo days this past winter.  They are among my finalists and would be my PING pick right now.  My nextdoor neighbor is a 12+ handicap and recently switched from G30's to the i230's and really likes them.  He says they are whisker less forgiving but much longer through the bag.  Also, it's always tough to make handicap/index a "break point" when considering clubs.  Some high handicap players may be high handicap players by way of poor course management, short game, or off the tee issues.  Best to go get fitted for the clubs you prefer and see how the data shakes out.

[Donkey Kong Duffer]

I’m playing around a 20 with Ping i230’s and I love them. My iron play has improved dramatically since switching from some game improvement irons to them. I played i5’s for years and years as well before trying GI irons because I’m not that great a player. I thinks it’s all personal preference. How the club looks and feels to you and how it plays to your swing and preference. I find my misses with them less bad than my game improvement irons if that’s even possible. As I’ve gotten better, my distance with them has really increased so I’m learning how to dial that in better. But the crazy thing is that my game is improving more with them than it did with “game improvement” irons. 

[brogies]

3 hours ago, Donkey Kong Duffer said:

I’m playing around a 20 with Ping i230’s and I love them. My iron play has improved dramatically since switching from some game improvement irons to them. I played i5’s for years and years as well before trying GI irons because I’m not that great a player. I thinks it’s all personal preference. How the club looks and feels to you and how it plays to your swing and preference. I find my misses with them less bad than my game improvement irons if that’s even possible. As I’ve gotten better, my distance with them has really increased so I’m learning how to dial that in better. But the crazy thing is that my game is improving more with them than it did with “game improvement” irons. 

Awesome! Thank you.

[Thisway84]

I was fit for i230s this summer and pulled the trigger. Throughout this year I was playing primarily at a 10 handicap and since my i230s came in late August, I have broken 80 twice and my handicap came down to an 8. I replaced a set of Ping i3s that I had played for 23 years and the difference is remarkable. They are incredibly consistent. I have hit a few shots off the toe that would have leaked short right with my old clubs and with these I still hit the right side of the green. I would then feel like a jerk for complaining about the shot mid flight when any GIR is a win. The only time I find these clubs missing the mark is when I shut the face down and draw the ball hard. Then they can really take off, but otherwise they always fall within 5 yards of expected no matter the strike. I have been extremely impressed with their consistency. In a game that is impossible to find consistency, these have helped immensely. 

[brogies]

2 hours ago, Thisway84 said:

I was fit for i230s this summer and pulled the trigger. Throughout this year I was playing primarily at a 10 handicap and since my i230s came in late August, I have broken 80 twice and my handicap came down to an 8. I replaced a set of Ping i3s that I had played for 23 years and the difference is remarkable. They are incredibly consistent. I have hit a few shots off the toe that would have leaked short right with my old clubs and with these I still hit the right side of the green. I would then feel like a jerk for complaining about the shot mid flight when any GIR is a win. The only time I find these clubs missing the mark is when I shut the face down and draw the ball hard. Then they can really take off, but otherwise they always fall within 5 yards of expected no matter the strike. I have been extremely impressed with their consistency. In a game that is impossible to find consistency, these have helped immensely. 

Awesome! Thank you.

[Ding-dong]

I did a fitting yesterday. I tried all 3 heads , 230, 525, 430. 
525 was recommended to me, based on yardage alone, forgiveness wasn’t a concern.

I am afraid I rejected the 525, rightly or wrongly, but my view was if this was like any other hollow body iron, it will offer some random front to back dispersion.

I went to the 430, distance went up, but let’s be honest here what’s written on the sole is ego complimentary . I feel like the 430 is the modern Zing 2 - bred to look a bit prettier and improve some more attributes. I played Zing 2 - I am an engineer, cosmetics are not a persuasive requirement. 
 

So 230, distance was not as long as I wanted ( allegedly) , 525  were disregarded by my own personal perception and concerns.. this left 430 and I opted into retro lofts. 
 

We will see where this goes, they have 3 years to prove themselves… longer if successful. 

[RickyBobby_PR]

59 minutes ago, Ding-dong said:

I am afraid I rejected the 525, rightly or wrongly, but my view was if this was like any other hollow body iron, it will offer some random front to back dispersion.

Definitely wrongly. I have the 525 and have not seen any random front to back dispersion. I have played several hollow body irons pxg 0311t gen2 and gen3, p790 first and second release, tested the i500 multiple times on the range. No random front to back dispersions.

There are many members of varying swing speeds and handicaps across the forums that have not experienced random front to back dispersion. Those who see this “phenomenon” are typically those who don’t have consistent contact and what happens is they play for their normal shot and they actually happen to hit the ball in the sweet spot and then all goes further. 

1 hour ago, Ding-dong said:

So 230, distance was not as long as I wanted ( allegedly) ,

What’s allegedly either they went the distance you were looking for or they didn’t. If the fitting was outdoors you should be able to see how far the ball is going, the fitter should let you know or if you aren’t sure how far then you should ask the fitter. If it’s indoor then either the screen will show the data or again fitter should be telling you or you should be asking.

The most important part about irons isn’t necessarily how far they go but how consistently they go the same distance for similar shots. 

[Ding-dong]

I didn’t want to have the risk on the i525, I have had PXG 0211dc and Mizuno hmb .. both have given me that flyer off a fairway - and yes both are forgiving for sure. My courses greens are small and your score goes down the toilet when the ball disappears into the rubbish behind the green. I went back to my i15s and my scores reduced massively simply because the front to back is controlled. 
 

I don’t want a random hot face, a cavity back for me is the right thing, so yes I do have some trepidation about the 430s but all reviews are positive and even my own testing maintained a nice distance front to back .. so hopefully they deliver.

On the i15s I thought the i230 was slightly longer and it was okay. 

[GolfSpy_APH]

4 hours ago, Ding-dong said:

I did a fitting yesterday. I tried all 3 heads , 230, 525, 430. 
525 was recommended to me, based on yardage alone, forgiveness wasn’t a concern.

I am afraid I rejected the 525, rightly or wrongly, but my view was if this was like any other hollow body iron, it will offer some random front to back dispersion.

I went to the 430, distance went up, but let’s be honest here what’s written on the sole is ego complimentary . I feel like the 430 is the modern Zing 2 - bred to look a bit prettier and improve some more attributes. I played Zing 2 - I am an engineer, cosmetics are not a persuasive requirement. 
 

So 230, distance was not as long as I wanted ( allegedly) , 525  were disregarded by my own personal perception and concerns.. this left 430 and I opted into retro lofts. 
 

We will see where this goes, they have 3 years to prove themselves… longer if successful. 

Out of my own curiosity how much distance what the front to back that you noticed with the 525? 

My own experience is they (many hollow body) are they are pretty darn consistent, but because of the added forgiveness often golfers have strikes that stray more toe and heal which go distance x but when they really catch one out of the middle they do go further. It's not so much the irons problem, but quality of strike. This is related to the golfer by a flyer or hot spot because the feeling isn't as precise. It's also a result of the category these irons see designed for. 

The 430 may not feel that same way due to the just larger sweet spot.

I had P790s and while they were great O actually felt my ball striking worsened during my time using them because I could get away with more poor swings.

Moving back to the sub 70 659 TC and then T series I am definitely having better swings and better shots but due to quality of strike vs the semi lazy swings I could get away with when using the p790.

[fixyurdivot]

Count me amongst the dubious as it relates to this "random hot face" term/club distance effect.  @Ding-dong, what do you mean by "front to back"?  I simply cannot believe that any of OEM's would produce, by design or via lack of product manufacturing control, irons in a set that would produce hitting distances (strikes in the sweetspot anyway) that are inconsistent with the set or from set to set.

 

[RickyBobby_PR]

2 hours ago, GolfSpy_APH said:

My own experience is they (many hollow body) are they are pretty darn consistent, but because of the added forgiveness often golfers have strikes that stray more toe and heal which go distance x but when they really catch one out of the middle they do go further. It's not so much the irons problem, but quality of strike.

This.

Not only shots laterally across the face but also vertically, get where the bottom of the ball mark is on the 4th it’s going to go shorter than expected, combine that with a little was on either side of the face and will be even shorter, then one swing later you catch it just right and get 10-15 yards extra distance and the golfer thinks it’s the design when it’s quality of strike 

1 hour ago, fixyurdivot said:

Count me amongst the dubious as it relates to this "random hot face" term/club distance effect.  @Ding-dong, what do you mean by "front to back"?  I simply cannot believe that any of OEM's would produce, by design or via lack of product manufacturing control, irons in a set that would produce hitting distances (strikes in the sweetspot anyway) that are inconsistent with the set or from set to set.

 

and this.

 

[Ding-dong]

Okay, if it makes you all happy, I spray round the face .. the i525 is too good for me and I need a spade.

 

[TJ Hall]

My dad had some Nike hybrids years ago that seemed to have varying “hot spots”.  Sometimes the ball would fly off the club face and other times it would just drop out of the sky some 50 yards shorter…he felt like the strikes were the same. 

[RickyBobby_PR]

On 9/15/2023 at 7:48 PM, TJ Hall said:

My dad had some Nike hybrids years ago that seemed to have varying “hot spots”.  Sometimes the ball would fly off the club face and other times it would just drop out of the sky some 50 yards shorter…he felt like the strikes were the same. 

Lots of people feel like strikes are the same. See it all the time on forums. Unless they have sprayed the face or put some kind of tape on the face and visually see where the strike is then it’s just speculation about same strike

[Owengeorge13]

Hoping to get this thread going again about ping i230’s.  Anyone have anymore reviews on these irons?  I’ve been hitting them at my local store and I’ve come to like them.  I’m not in position to be buying new irons at this time…but I might be by the time they go on sale!

[GolfSpy_APH]

47 minutes ago, Owengeorge13 said:

Hoping to get this thread going again about ping i230’s.  Anyone have anymore reviews on these irons?  I’ve been hitting them at my local store and I’ve come to like them.  I’m not in position to be buying new irons at this time…but I might be by the time they go on sale!

Haven't heard anything bad about them. When I demod them I liked them. Very familiar to someone who played the i210 for several years. If you like a ping iron you are going to also like these... however don't count on a sale unless you buy used. The i210 were a current model for 4 plus years. 

[RickyBobby_PR]

3 hours ago, Owengeorge13 said:

Hoping to get this thread going again about ping i230’s.  Anyone have anymore reviews on these irons?  I’ve been hitting them at my local store and I’ve come to like them.  I’m not in position to be buying new irons at this time…but I might be by the time they go on sale!

If you want irons that are good and a reduce price then find i210.

The i230 are a great iron. The i210 was the first iron in the “i” line from ping since the i20. They have plenty of forgiveness and allow the ball to be worked up/ down and side to side.

 

[GolfSpy_APH]

10 hours ago, RickyBobby_PR said:

If you want irons that are good and a reduce price then find i210.

The i230 are a great iron. The i210 was the first iron in the “i” line from ping since the i20. They have plenty of forgiveness and allow the ball to be worked up/ down and side to side.

 

Don't forget the "i" when they said they were going to drop all the numbers for irons. It lasted a season. Also the i200 came shortly ish after. 

Both of those were also decent. However the i210 were certainly a step up imo. 

[RickyBobby_PR]

1 hour ago, GolfSpy_APH said:

Don't forget the "i" when they said they were going to drop all the numbers for irons. It lasted a season. Also the i200 came shortly ish after. 

Both of those were also decent. However the i210 were certainly a step up imo. 

Yeah the “ei” irons were ok. I did a fitting with our Ping rep and they couldn’t be the i20. The i200 were like the “ei” and were just ok. The i210 are on the iconic level with the i20. To see pros who wouldn’t move on from the i210 move into the i230 is a good sign Ping make a good improvement between releases. 

[GolfSpy_APH]

Just now, RickyBobby_PR said:

Yeah the “ei” irons were ok. I did a fitting with our Ping rep and they couldn’t be the i20. The i200 were like the “ei” and were just ok. The i210 are on the iconic level with the i20. To see pros who wouldn’t move on from the i210 move into the i230 is a good sign Ping make a good improvement between releases. 

The other part that often gets forgotten if the i210 were not the exciting release. It was the i500 that got all the attention and was the one everyone wanted or was more excited about.

The i210 first impressions weren't the greatest but it certainly lasted a lot longer and had a significantly greater hold long term.

[RickyBobby_PR]

3 minutes ago, GolfSpy_APH said:

The other part that often gets forgotten if the i210 were not the exciting release. It was the i500 that got all the attention and was the one everyone wanted or was more excited about.

The i210 first impressions weren't the greatest but it certainly lasted a lot longer and had a significantly greater hold long term.

Yeah that release year was pretty good for Ping.

[Javs]

On 9/17/2023 at 8:41 AM, RickyBobby_PR said:

Lots of people feel like strikes are the same. See it all the time on forums. Unless they have sprayed the face or put some kind of tape on the face and visually see where the strike is then it’s just speculation about same strike

Very true statement. The modern game improvement golf clubs often makes you feel like the strike is the same or solid, but actually it’s high on the face or towards the heel or toe. This is especially true on drivers and hybrids. High toe shots can come off very hot. However, if you spray or tape the face, then your real strike is apparent. 

[Freebee]

I play i230 since november 2022. 5 hcp. And they are forgiving. And for me, no problems feeling where I strike the ball on the club face.

I think all kind of handicaps can play this club. It should be no problems for a 20 caper. If i230 give you the right numbers, decent angle and those kind of stuff, go for it.

Youtube chanel Cool clubs has released a robot test with a 7 irons with swing speed 90 mph and 80 mph. Check em out. Great info. Shows how forgiving they are on different strikes on the club face.

[RickyBobby_PR]

3 hours ago, Javs said:

Very true statement. The modern game improvement golf clubs often makes you feel like the strike is the same or solid, but actually it’s high on the face or towards the heel or toe. This is especially true on drivers and hybrids. High toe shots can come off very hot. However, if you spray or tape the face, then your real strike is apparent. 

Yes the hot spot on most drivers is 5mm towards the toe and 5mm above center. As the ball moves up the face launch goes up and spin goes down, however there is a point where high on the face isn’t good.

Yes spraying the face is a great way to see exactly where contact is occurring and can help make adjustments to improving contact. One downside for some is the lack of audible feedback or even physical feedback on larger iron heads and ball flight can even be skewed because of the larger moi and being able to produce a similar result on mishits to a good shot

[Javs]

20 minutes ago, RickyBobby_PR said:

Yes the hot spot on most drivers is 5mm towards the toe and 5mm above center. As the ball moves up the face launch goes up and spin goes down, however there is a point where high on the face isn’t good.

Yes spraying the face is a great way to see exactly where contact is occurring and can help make adjustments to improving contact. One downside for some is the lack of audible feedback or even physical feedback on larger iron heads and ball flight can even be skewed because of the larger moi and being able to produce a similar result on mishits to a good shot

Agree and think we are saying the same things in different ways. I fully agree the high toe spot is normally one of the hot spots on a driver. Some of my best driving results came from high toe draws. I have always played blades to players distance clubs. So, I can usually get instant feedback. I will say the Callaway Paradym irons I am currently playing are more forgiving. Sometimes this leads to sloppy swings because I can get away with it.

[DGOhacker]

I really liked these irons at the outdoor demo over the summer.  I finally went indoors to do a full fitting for new irons, my Apex 19 Pro are well past worn.  Started with the Cobra King Tour, really liked them and hit them consistently well, moved on to the Miz Pro 223 and 225.  After going back and forth with these, I definitely hit the Pro 225 the best.  Then, went on to try the i230 with the same shaft I'm currently using and was fit for, KBS C-Taper Lite.  After hitting about 4 balls, the pro looked and me and said nope.  

I was all set to order the Pro 225 built 1 degree weak (I am not a fan of jacked lofts, especially when it gets down to Pw/Gw.  Since Mizuno announced the new Pro models 241,243,245 that are available in January I decided to go with the Pro 245 2 degrees weak.  

You really need to try them all, side by side, in order to find out if they work for you and your game.