Need Opinion: 480y drive? Or did someone hit my ball?

[redscootergolfing]

So, this happened today and it was very strange.  I'll set the stage then describe the problem:

Par 5, 477y dog leg right.  I slice my drive over the trees on the right side thinking I hit it about 280-ish yards and on the left side of the neighboring fairway.  Walk up and couldn't find my ball so I drop and hit another from where I thought my ball had landed.  Second shot goes over the trees and lands on the backside of the green.

Now: As I approach my second shot and get ready for my third, I look at the ball and notice that it was my first ball from the drive.  That is an impossible drive if it was legit and I refuse to believe that I hit that far originally considering my longest drive ever is 330y.  I look around for the second ball that I dropped and can't find it.  I'm thinking that I walked past my second ball considering I saw a ball on the backside of the green and walked directly there.

I ended up playing my first ball, putt onto the green then 1 putt to hole out.

So, what's the ruling here?  I honestly have no idea. 

If I was playing my original ball, it'd be considered an eagle, but there's no way that I hit anywhere remotely close to that distance. 

On the other hand, is this a Double Bogey or more because in total, I swung the club and hit a ball 4 times, but I guess I technically played 2 balls. 

In the end, my playing partner said, "give yourself a birdie since you hit 4 times.  It's a good compromise."  It was a casual game so no money or anything was on the line.  I'm just genuinely curious on how this should play out.

 

[cnosil]

9 hours ago, redscootergolfing said:

So, this happened today and it was very strange.  I'll set the stage then describe the problem:

Par 5, 477y dog leg right.  I slice my drive over the trees on the right side thinking I hit it about 280-ish yards and on the left side of the neighboring fairway.  Walk up and couldn't find my ball so I drop and hit another from where I thought my ball had landed.  Second shot goes over the trees and lands on the backside of the green.

Now: As I approach my second shot and get ready for my third, I look at the ball and notice that it was my first ball from the drive.  That is an impossible drive if it was legit and I refuse to believe that I hit that far originally considering my longest drive ever is 330y.  I look around for the second ball that I dropped and can't find it.  I'm thinking that I walked past my second ball considering I saw a ball on the backside of the green and walked directly there.

I ended up playing my first ball, putt onto the green then 1 putt to hole out.

So, what's the ruling here?  I honestly have no idea. 

If I was playing my original ball, it'd be considered an eagle, but there's no way that I hit anywhere remotely close to that distance. 

On the other hand, is this a Double Bogey or more because in total, I swung the club and hit a ball 4 times, but I guess I technically played 2 balls. 

In the end, my playing partner said, "give yourself a birdie since you hit 4 times.  It's a good compromise."  It was a casual game so no money or anything was on the line.  I'm just genuinely curious on how this should play out.

 

If you are playing by the rules the first ball s considered  lost and you need to proceed with stroke and distance penalty.  Playing the first ball results in a playing the wrong ball penalty. 
 

that said, I have hit drivers significantly longer than normal drives.  Could be that it bounced off the tree, hit a sprinkler or numerous other possibilities.  

[Hacker60521]

Okay. I’m not a rules expert. But here goes. 
 

Tee shot - 1 stroke

Lost ball / local rule +2 penalty strokes. Since second shot was from where the first was “lost”

Second shot +1

Third shot +1

Played wrong ball or lost ball under local rule +2 

Fourth shot +1

So total would be four strokes and four penalty strokes for a total of 8. 
 

If I had to guess, the ball you thought you hit from the tee wasn’t really the one you thought it was. The “first” ball was really your second ball as the substitute. If that’s the case then your total is 6

[RickyBobby_PR]

2 hours ago, Hacker60521 said:

Okay. I’m not a rules expert. But here goes. 
 

Tee shot - 1 stroke

Lost ball / local rule +2 penalty strokes. Since second shot was from where the first was “lost”

Second shot +1

Third shot +1

Played wrong ball or lost ball under local rule +2 

Fourth shot +1

So total would be four strokes and four penalty strokes for a total of 8. 
 

If I had to guess, the ball you thought you hit from the tee wasn’t really the one you thought it was. The “first” ball was really your second ball as the substitute. If that’s the case then your total is 6

What local rule are you referring to? I’m guessing you are referring to the local rule for a ball that goes out of bounds, very different from a lost ball.

You can’t play a ball from where a ball is lost because you have no idea where it was actually lost thus the word lost.

As was mentioned by cnosil its. Almost ball only choice is to to take stroke and distance and re tee. Unless the op played a provisional then the provisional would be the ball in play when the original wasn’t found 

In the scenario of the op he has to go back to the tee, replay from there and then after holing out add two strokes for playing the wrong ball. 

Edited March 25 by RickyBobby_PR

[redscootergolfing]

Thanks for all of the insight!  I quit playing golf for 20+ years and only got back to it about 6 months ago so I'm trying to refresh on everything.  

[quod erat]

Was there a group on the hole to your right? If so, my bets are on one of them hitting your first ball back toward your green. Or: you pulled the wrong ball on the tee and your green-side 'first' ball was actually your second. I just can't imagine a 100+ yard bounce off anything.

[Hacker60521]

19 hours ago, RickyBobby_PR said:

What local rule are you referring to? I’m guessing you are referring to the local rule for a ball that goes out of bounds, very different from a lost ball.

You can’t play a ball from where a ball is lost because you have no idea where it was actually lost thus the word lost.

Yes. I’m thinking of local rule E-5 which applies to OB and “lost” balls. Like I said, I’m not an expert, but why doesn’t “ball has not been found” apply to the first shot?

Here is first part of the rule

Model Local Rule E-5

“When a player’s ball has not been found or is known or virtually certain to be out of bounds, the player may proceed as follows rather than proceeding under stroke and distance.

For two penalty strokes, the player may take relief by dropping the original ball or another ball in this relief area (see Rule 14.3):

 

[RickyBobby_PR]

6 minutes ago, Hacker60521 said:

Yes. I’m thinking of local rule E-5 which applies to OB and “lost” balls. Like I said, I’m not an expert, but why doesn’t “ball has not been found” apply to the first shot?

Here is first part of the rule

Model Local Rule E-5

“When a player’s ball has not been found or is known or virtually certain to be out of bounds, the player may proceed as follows rather than proceeding under stroke and distance.

For two penalty strokes, the player may take relief by dropping the original ball or another ball in this relief area (see Rule 14.3):

 

That MLR has to be in use before the round starts whether it’s the golf course that states the rule is in use or within a group.

you can’t just invoke the rule at will randomly during a round. So if the round was started and the rule was not determined in play the op has to take stroke and distance.

 

All local rules have to be determined if they will be used before the round starts doesn’t matter if it’s for preferred lies, one ball, out of bounds/lost ball, not determined to be chosen when a situation on the course arises.

[Hacker60521]

1 hour ago, RickyBobby_PR said:

That MLR has to be in use before the round starts whether it’s the golf course that states the rule is in use or within a group.

you can’t just invoke the rule at will randomly during a round. So if the round was started and the rule was not determined in play the op has to take stroke and distance.

 

All local rules have to be determined if they will be used before the round starts doesn’t matter if it’s for preferred lies, one ball, out of bounds/lost ball, not determined to be chosen when a situation on the course arises.

I totally get that. But you were saying it wouldn’t apply to a lost ball. Was wondering how you figured it wouldn’t apply to a lost ball under “has not been found”

[RickyBobby_PR]

1 hour ago, Hacker60521 said:

I totally get that. But you were saying it wouldn’t apply to a lost ball. Was wondering how you figured it wouldn’t apply to a lost ball under “has not been found”

I should have clarified last night that it doesn’t apply because the rule wasn’t in use during the round. So it doesn’t apply to a lost ball in the OPs situation. 
 

 

Edited March 26 by RickyBobby_PR

[Dweed]

7 hours ago, quod erat said:

Was there a group on the hole to your right? If so, my bets are on one of them hitting your first ball back toward your green. Or: you pulled the wrong ball on the tee and your green-side 'first' ball was actually your second. I just can't imagine a 100+ yard bounce off anything.

@redscootergolfing and @quod erat. Justa  quick welcome to the forums. Hope it helps in some of your questions and info gathering. Welcome.

[Hacker60521]

13 hours ago, RickyBobby_PR said:

I should have clarified last night that it doesn’t apply because the rule wasn’t in use during the round. So it doesn’t apply to a lost ball in the OPs situation. 
 

 

I agree with that but I thought local rules were established by the course, and we don’t know from @redscootergolfing if the course had invoked the local rule — or perhaps I missed that. But if the LR applied, I think it’s fair to say that the rule would apply to lost balls as well as OB

[RickyBobby_PR]

6 minutes ago, Hacker60521 said:

I agree with that but I thought local rules were established by the course, and we don’t know from @redscootergolfing if the course had invoked the local rule — or perhaps I missed that. But if the LR applied, I think it’s fair to say that the rule would apply to lost balls as well as OB

The course can set them but also a group can set their them as well. The group I used to play with we would do lcp when it was cart path only because there were going to be lots of mud balls and they may be where there wasn’t casual water as well even though the course didn’t set that local rule for the day.

we have to go with the information we have. Since the OP didn’t ask about that rule we have to assume the course didn’t set that rule for that day and that his group wasn’t using it either.

But yes if the rule was being used it would apply. 

[FallenSaber]

On 3/24/2024 at 10:03 PM, redscootergolfing said:

So, this happened today and it was very strange.  I'll set the stage then describe the problem:

Par 5, 477y dog leg right.  I slice my drive over the trees on the right side thinking I hit it about 280-ish yards and on the left side of the neighboring fairway.  Walk up and couldn't find my ball so I drop and hit another from where I thought my ball had landed.  Second shot goes over the trees and lands on the backside of the green.

Now: As I approach my second shot and get ready for my third, I look at the ball and notice that it was my first ball from the drive.  That is an impossible drive if it was legit and I refuse to believe that I hit that far originally considering my longest drive ever is 330y.  I look around for the second ball that I dropped and can't find it.  I'm thinking that I walked past my second ball considering I saw a ball on the backside of the green and walked directly there.

I ended up playing my first ball, putt onto the green then 1 putt to hole out.

So, what's the ruling here?  I honestly have no idea. 

If I was playing my original ball, it'd be considered an eagle, but there's no way that I hit anywhere remotely close to that distance. 

On the other hand, is this a Double Bogey or more because in total, I swung the club and hit a ball 4 times, but I guess I technically played 2 balls. 

In the end, my playing partner said, "give yourself a birdie since you hit 4 times.  It's a good compromise."  It was a casual game so no money or anything was on the line.  I'm just genuinely curious on how this should play out.

 

I'm not a rules expert so can't say with the penalties but I had a slightly similar experience with likely the longest drive I've ever hit.

I was playing one of the hardest courses I had ever played at the time, PB Dye outside Ijamsville, MD. I was having an utterly miserable day and did not do a good job keeping my cool. After one terrible shot that failed to go over a canyon, I angrily threw a ball as a stupid way to show I could throw a ball further than I hit it. Neither cleared. Then came a 400 yard par 4 on the back 9. I took all my anger and frustration out and rocked it. It was beautiful. The ball just flew like it'd never see the ground again. Then came the search. Couldn't find it. I was destroyed. The course had won. I gave up and jumped in the cart to take my playing partner to the green. Then we saw something just short of the green that resembled a ball. We thought no possible way. I looked. It was my ball. 20-30 yards shy of the front of the green, in the rough, beyond the fairway. We estimated it was a 370 yard drive. After that, I did t care about the score (over 100) or how I played. In my mind, I had the drive of drives. I can't recall 99% of my shots but I remember that one. And a couple others like it. Now that was probably 15-16 years ago. Bit I'd love for just one more of those kind of shots.

[Hacker60521]

9 hours ago, FallenSaber said:

I'm not a rules expert so can't say with the penalties but I had a slightly similar experience with likely the longest drive I've ever hit.

Then we saw something just short of the green that resembled a ball. We thought no possible way. I looked. It was my ball. 20-30 yards shy of the front of the green, in the rough, beyond the fairway. We estimated it was a 370 yard drive. 

@FallenSaber I had a similar experience once. Tee shot off a par five that plays around 560. I striped right down the middle. Luckily, it has just enough distance that it landed on the downslope of the fairway, and just kept rolling. Crested the hill to see my ball had landed slightly behind the foursome ahead of me. Probably close to 300. It was glorious 

[cnosil]

On 3/27/2024 at 8:33 AM, Hacker60521 said:

But if the LR applied, I think it’s fair to say that the rule would apply to lost balls as well as OB

The model local rule if applied does apply to a lost ball.  
https://www.usga.org/content/usga/home-page/rules-hub/rules-modernization/major-changes/golfs-new-rules-stroke-and-distance.html

 

Edited March 28 by cnosil