Shaft lengths and flex

[revkev]

I tried asking this up in the review section with no luck so I'll try it here. I currently have a set of Mizuno JPX 800 pros with Aerotech steel fiber shafts in them. In my opinion the shafts are too long for me - no biggie on the shorter irons but I start to have issues with the 6 iron. I love the shaft, love the clubs, have shot some very nice scores with them, am hitting lots of greens but because of the 6 iron issue have a huge gap between the 7 iron and my 5 hybrid that I constantly struggle with.

 

I'm seriously considering shortening these irons by 3/4 of an inch. My question is will this significantly change the flex and playing characteristics - would I even notice?

 

Thanks

[hckymeyer]

As long as you cut from the butt end there will be no change to the flex. It will change the swing weight though. 1/2" is roughly 3 swing weight points so you might have to add some weight back in to get it to feel right again.

[Bobtrumpet]

I'd start smaller and sneak up on the right shaft length.

 

As loft angle has more influence than shaft length on shot distance, it might be easier, and less destructive, to adjust the loft angles first.

[revkev]

It's not a matter of length Bob it's a matter of consistency with the 6 iron - I'm fine with the longer shafts on the shorter irons but loose it at the 6.

 

Regardless I'm not doing anything for now other than gripping down and taking a full swing - If I grip the irons at the white line on the bottom of the grip its just about 3/4 of an inch down - worked really well on the driving range yesterday. Predictably I hit the 6 and 7 iron farther on average gripped down than held at the butt end because I hit them more solidly - I really, really hit the 7 iron solidly shot, after shot, after shot - now if ever I could learn to flight be ball down with those shafts I would be very happy - if ever it would stop raining I'd be happier still.

[RookieBlue7]

Rev, have you compared wrist to floor to height measurements to get the baseline standard for yourself? Also, most manufacturers/builders use a 1/2" longer "standard" length for graphite versus steel. Why, I don't know, probably because most manufacturers do head weights for steel instead of graphite.

 

As to what will happen by shortening them 3/4", you'll change the swing weight 4.5 swing weight points, which even the least sensitive "feel" (I know you don't like that word) player will notice that difference. If you're gonna shorten them, I'd make sure to have the swing weight adjusted as well. But be careful, pulling and reinstalling SteelFibers should be done by an experienced builder. They're sensitive to heat and if you leave even the slightest spot on the hosel we've all see the horror stories.

 

I'd also measure all of them and make sure they weren't miscut longer by accident. It happens, though infrequently, if someone is distracted or not paying attention, they can accidentally go to the wrong mark and cut short or long. I don't care how experienced, mistakes are made by everyone occasionally.

[hckymeyer]

I'd be remiss if I didn't mention this. You are hitting them really well gripping to the white mark roughly 3/4" down. Don't mess with them, just continue to grip there

[Shambles]

I'd be remiss if I didn't mention this. You are hitting them really well gripping to the white mark roughly 3/4" down. Don't mess with them, just continue to grip there

 

+1

 

 

Consistency is bound to suffer until you get used to the changes but I would want to fully explore that configuration until I was fully satisfied it was a plus or a minus.

 

 

 

Shambles

[RoverRick]

I'd start smaller and sneak up on the right shaft length.

 

As loft angle has more influence than shaft length on shot distance, it might be easier, and less destructive, to adjust the loft angles first.

 

The easiest thing to do is choke down on it to see if that makes it better.

 

I can not agree with the second statement. I have thought of this all day and am forced to disagree with this statement. I can choke down on the club and shorten the effective swing arc and shortens the distance the ball travels.

 

According to my tests, while a one degree decrease in loft will cause about 1.8 yards of increase. A 1/4 inch in length will increase distance about 2 yards. So this relationship may not be exact, I would say it is close.

 

I choke down on my clubs to the steel all the time and that is about 1/2 the difference between a full club and a full one club less.

[RoverRick]

I have been pondering this. If they are too long for you, would not having the lie adjusted do the same as Shortening them without effecting your distance?

 

If your lie angle is correct now than change your setup to where you are closer to the ball. Shortening the shaft seems drastic.

[Shambles]

Longer shafts with the same flex is something I have not experienced.

 

Longer shafts with resultant softer flex adds up to greater carry for me but requires a change of stance, address and timing to equate to greater distance of any meaning. In short, if I want a benefit in length, I need to make changes in my swing. It's not as difficult as it sounds, but there is a learning curve involved. There are also limits. To be able to make the changes I need to stand a little bit narrower to become a little taller at address and still be able to strike the ball with the face angle and effective dynamic loft I want. Given time and practice this can become easier but beginnings are difficult and sometimes confusing. Obviously one can only narrow the stance to limits before getting taller becomes a losing proposition to difficulty maintaining a solid stance for the swing. It's more likely that a softer shaft with a calmer and deliberate swing that allows a full loading of the shaft before release is the more productive path to explore. We do tend to over emphasize the business of gaining swing speed but do not give enough attention to gaining the full shaft load which, when done properly, can add as much as 50% to swing speed at impact.

 

 

 

Shambles

[revkev]

I'd be remiss if I didn't mention this. You are hitting them really well gripping to the white mark roughly 3/4" down. Don't mess with them, just continue to grip there

 

 

This is the advice that I'm going to follow for the time being - it also affords me the opportunity to grip all the way up and hit the ball higher and certainly longer down wind with those shorter irons.

 

I shot 75 yesterday and hit my irons great - I was on my way to a very nice round when the wind picked up because of a front moving through - it made the back nine very, very difficult.

 

Regardless I hit 12 greens in regulation and had lots of good looks at birdie.

[RoverRick]

Now get the lie angle checked. I have a 58* Scratch wedge. I wanted to fall in love with this wedge, and have been carrying it to the course for several weeks. I have not hit it well. I decided to make a real effort. I spent time on the internet learning about scratch and the different grinds and an hour on Monday hitting it out of deep grass and sand.

 

I went to the course yesterday and used that wedge for everything inside 80 yards. I had 8 dropped shots because of this wedge, In spite of that I still shot a 78 but 3 chili dips, 2 blades and 3 shanks. Not really shanks but the ball shot out to the right like a shank. I almost threw this club into the lake. I almost gave it away. But instead I came home and put it in the need-to-get-rid-of bag and returned my old Vokeys to their rightful place. Then on a whim I compared this to a Vokey. The lie angle is way flat for me.

 

This has led from anywhere to inconsistent contact and just flat out poor shots. It is amazing how much difference that can make.

[revkev]

I will get it checked but the lie angles are supposed to be 2 degrees flat which is what I'm fit for - they look the same as my other set of irons.

[RoverRick]

I will get it checked but the lie angles are supposed to be 2 degrees flat which is what I'm fit for - they look the same as my other set of irons.

 

If they are 3/4" longer than they need to be flatter.

[Shambles]

If they are 3/4" longer than they need to be flatter.

 

 

True.

 

Shortening the shaft gives you a more upright effect and lengthening flattens. However I never thought, saw or felt the amount involved mattered all that much. It's a subjective effect and not objective so it will affect different people differently.

 

 

 

Shambles