BMart519
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Posts posted by BMart519
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Final update and farewell:
3rd consecutive round of short game strokes gained better than scratch using the TM MG3 56 and dropping a 60 from my bag which was highlighted by my 2nd chip in of the year compared to once all of last year. I have now ordered a 52 MG3 to replace my final Indi and a backup 56 MG3 for when this one wears out because I have a problem.
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The MG3 wedge made quick work of the Indi it replaced. I've only used it for 4 rounds, but over the last rounds 2 my SG around the green has been better than scratch including 1 time where Shot Scope had me gaining strokes on a tour player. (These rounds also included the removal of the Indi 60 from may bag as it is only needed once every 5+ rounds and better allocated to a long game club). This was somewhat expected for a wedge with brand new grooves but the performance on approach shots has also surprised me as I felt the forgiveness with the Indi head design might give it the edge. The MG3 GIR rate is 78% with a proximity of 26ft compared to 71% @ 31ft with the Indi. Proximity around the green when chipping is 14 ft w/MG3 and 17ft w/Indi.
I am sad that the 40% off season opener sale is over on the MG3 stock. But they are still 20% off and I'm considering buying more MG3 wedges - a 52 to replace my remaining Indi wedge and a backup 56 so I am set for the next season or two.
I want to thank MGS for the opportunity to test these wedges and for the Most Wanted testing otherwise the TM wedges would likely not have been on my radar. Also kudos to you - Indi, your team was great in executing the remote fit and shipping these out ASAP. The Indi's excelled on full swing shots due to their forgiveness. But even in my initial indoor testing on MEVO+, they showed lower spin rates than used PING Glide wedges that had 2 degrees less loft. I attribute this to the lack of fine milling between the grooves which has become prevalent across the major manufacturers and apparently is key to providing friction on shorter shots. The Indi's likely use a higher number of grooves in an attempt to increase spin but it does not appear to work as well as the TM micro ribs or the face blast PING uses.
The MG3/MG4 most wanted hype appears very real!
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58 minutes ago, MNUte said:
I'm surprised no one has mentioned the ruler drill yet.
By a cheap flat metal yardstick from home depot/lowes/local hardware store. Hit a ball from one end of it off the other end without it falling off to the side. Absolute magic in terms of giving yourself confidence that you're hitting the ball straight. For me, that helps me be comfortable focusing on my green reads and distance control without having to worry I'll push or pull my putt.
I use a ruler a lot (almost daily), but I've recently started to wonder if it translates to the course due to my putting statistics being poor from everywhere except outside 30' which is just measuring speed control on lags. The ruler gives you reference lines perpendicular and parallel to help align the putter face that aren't there on grass. It has me interested in the putting laser from the pop-up ads I see online to see if I can roll the line.
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On 3/17/2024 at 5:34 AM, Rearviewmirror said:
However, my SG inside 120 yards is currently killing my scoring. I'm averaging 5 GIRs a round over the last ten rounds, and missing at least 8 greens short (I have experimented with playing back of green yardages vs middle of green but on quite a few of our courses short is a better miss).
What are people's favorite drills/practice routines for approach play?
I'm also looking into getting all my wedges adjusted to be the same length, as increasingly I think my 54º is too short for me (contact is inconsistent, toeing the ball/coming too inside) but even if this is partially a gear issue, I also need a more effective way to hone my approach game.
Thanks all!
The older voice caddie SC200 and 200+ launch monitors are cheap. They have an approach mode which spits out random numbers from 40-100 yards and scores each shot from 6-10 points based on proximity (11 points for hitting the yardage on the number). Something like this would really help you. I assume your 54 only goes 80-90 yards based on your PW distance. So everything above that should be full/stock swings and everything below your full 54 distance is all partial/feel shots using a clock system or some other technique. The only way to build those feels is reps. For more GIRs (specifically from 80-120):
- go back to playing middle/back yardages, even if behind the green is often the worse miss. Until you are missing over the green 4+ times per round, you will likely hit more total GIR and score better. Hitting it 2-3 yards over the back is likely not that penal. You're not miraculously going to hit it 20 yards over the green.
- start thinking of each club as a range and lay that over the green. (your 9 is your 120-130 club, or 115-125 if you lost 5 yards as mentioned above)
- For the 9i example: If the back of green is 130, you should be hitting 9 unless it is a front pin and very deep green. You will hit it 120 often and sometimes shorter.
- any green where the front is 120 should likely be a smooth 8 because if you miss the 9 at all you are off the green
- favoring playing short and eliminating the chance of a GIR is far worse for your scores than having some long putts from back of green. 8/13 missed greens being short can easily be improved by going up 1 club with no improvements to your swing mechanics or equipment.
- don't use a laser, use a GPS with front/middle/back yardages. Play to back for all back and mid pins, consider playing to middle for a front pin.
Subconsciously you should be more relaxed knowing you have some extra club and hit it better. If not, test hitting your irons as hard as comfortable (your "Full" distance or even farther) and see which is more consistent both laterally and in carry distance. Use the better performing feel, establish you carry distances on a good launch monitor (average the carry of at least 10 shots removing any terrible shanks/skulls), then take that average to the course and start laying it over the greens with it biased towards the back/middle. If you really want to avoid hitting it deep, note your best 1-2 shots with each iron. That can be the max yardages for each club which you can play to back of green because you know you will never hit it past that.
You should gain a minimum of 1-2 GIR per round with a better "approach" to strategy
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Played first round of the year last weekend and got up and down for par on first hole. Starting the year by simplifying my short game. I’ve dropped the Indi 60 as I never use it other than green side. It had worse proximity and up/down rate than the 56. I am also testing using the 56 as much as possible for short game after practicing with it indoors most of the winter and comparing to the 52 and 60.
These wedges continue to shine on full and half length shots putting me close from 50 and 75 yards. But I couldn’t resist picking up the back to back most wanted winner - Milled Grind 3 for 40% off after seeing the Indis score so low for spin in the 2023 test. At some point the Indis will get worn enough that I will need a new 56 as my most lofted wedge for short game anyway. I could definitely see using the 52 longer term since it is mostly used from 80-110.
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21 hours ago, Wieskemp said:
Where do you find how something responds to different swing speeds? I'm leaning towards the AVX as you mentioned but my driver is typically ~120mph, so I'm not sure if a firmer ball like the left dash would work better for it.
If you look at the MGS ball test results for 2021 and 2023, then filter the data in the charts by lowest spin you will see differences in Ball speed between the (soft balls) Tour BRX and RXS, Taylormade Tour Response, AVX, vs the ball speed for the Pro V1x Left Dash which is the hardest/fastest ball on the market. Those ball speed differences are from the softer ball being compressed more and losing energy and therefore distance.
But if those balls drop your spin with driver by 500 rpm, that gain may offset most of the loss of lower ball speed while theoretically flying straighter from low spin. It requires on course testing to see how it holds up for your swing and equipment. I went through this last year when I was swinging close to 110 MPH and struggle with direction control. The Tour Response being notably lower spin than "Tour" level balls was also noticeably straighter. The only downside was difficulty stopping on firmer greens with long approaches.At 120MPH you will likely see significant improvements to driving distance with the Left Dash to take advantage of that speed. But those softer balls are usually another level below the left dash in terms of spin. Which may benefit your approach play and reduce spinning balls off the green.
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4 hours ago, Wieskemp said:
I appreciate that there's a lot that goes into becoming a scratch golfer, but it's also different for each person. Based on my game, I find excessive spin on the driver and long irons make the ball harder to control and prevent any roll. On my short irons, I have issues with having to land the ball past the pin or risk spinning off the green, which becomes a problem if the pin is at the back of green. By having more moderate spin on my ball, I'm confident I'll hit straighter long shots, and will be able to attack more pins. Also having a consistent ball will give more confidence and reliability when hitting these shots.
Try the AVX and see how it performs. The TM Tour Response is even lower spinning and could work if your swing speed is under 110MPH with driver (Pro V1X left dash works good for high speeds and warm temps). The 2021 Ball Test had interesting results from the previous generation Z-Star if you can find some. It was similar in spin to the AVX off driver/irons but spin on the 55 yard wedge shot it was around middle of the pack with the Pro V1.
Also depends on the strengths and weaknesses of your game. If short game is a weakness, picking a ball to help there is probably a poor strategy vs something that will benefit all of your full swing shots.
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On 2/2/2024 at 5:23 PM, Brian A said:
The driver is my struggle club, I like the spin on irons and wedges. Short game is what keeps me alive. High back spin on driver with a slice
I have done a lot of experimenting with balls, used to predominantly play Bridgestone but also got along well with Srixon Z star as a low spin option. After the MGS ball testing I ordered some Left Dash balls for maximum potential distance (and needing higher flight) along with the Taylormade Tour Response as lowest spin urethane ball (and later the AVX). Fade/slice is also my miss with driver. The Left Dash/AVX are my main balls for 2024 with the Pro V1 as backup for very firms greens if I need extra stopping power, or the Tour Response if the greens are very slow or I am playing bad and don't want to lose expensive balls. Here's what I have found:
- the low spin balls like AVX (Tour Response, especially) tend to go a bit straighter off the tee, the lower flight and/or spin also helps on tee shots into wind which can make them play a similar distance to the left dash (driver SS tops out at 107 for me, likely more around 103-105)
- had my best round last year with the Tour Response - very straight, stayed out of trouble, the extreme low spin adds 5-10 yards distance to irons (which can offset driver loss in some situations), only downside is they won't work well on firm greens. Began testing the AVX last year as a small step up in terms of low spin urethane ball and saw positive results. Especially like these 2 in windy conditions where getting the ball on the ground quicker can be a benefit.
- when it is hot, (over 70) you can see more separation in distance and this is where the left dash really starts to shine. They do perform well into a head wind with the low-mid spin. I have hit multiple 250 yard tee shots with 19 degree hybrids using left dash, it is definitely one of the longest balls made.
- Brian A and CorporateGolfRat
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Chipping practice these days consists of shots off my basement carpet as it has been -20C or colder for more than a week. Really liking the 52 for simple bump and run type shots with no wrist hinge. Working to engrain the feel of 4-12 yard chips in 2 yard increments both through ladder drills and hitting random numbers.
Exciting times...
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I abandoned 1 course, it seemed like they didn't have enough space to finish all 18 holes. There is 25 yards of width between dense treed areas for the entire length of multiple par 4's. The trees themselves are not thick, so you don't get favorable bounces back into play or the ball dropping straight down. 90% of the time it is a lost ball for anything slightly offline.
The 13th hole is 400 yard par 4 from middle tees playing straight into the prevailing wind. At 25 yards wide, I've been able to lose a ball with every possible club down to a 6 or 7 iron on either the tee shot or approach. Fairway is 15 yards wide the whole way except where it widens behind some trees so it is easier to roll behind them requiring a punch out. Average score is 6.2 (including many improper drops at point of entry)... Followed by a 90-100 yard par 3 that you could possibly tee off with a putter.
17th hole is a 270 yard par 4 down wind. Your best play is to try to drive the green next to a pond as at least that is a drop from red stakes and the fairway pinches to 10 yards wide at narrowest LOL. Widest part of hole is 100-140 yards from the tee, which is again roughly 25 yards wide between forested areas and you would hit your approach through a 15-20 yard window or over the edge of trees 50 yards in front of you.
These holes combined with a couple other holes that are gimmicky and don't appeal to me when the rest of the course is a links style made me realize it wasn't worth my money because I don't enjoy my time playing there versus other places and only went because it was the cheapest course kept in good condition with fast greens in the area. Which still required a 45 minute drive.
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I have my gamer - a custom fit Edel. Then I have 1 backup if I get in a slump or need a new look with different alignment. Shockingly, it usually reinforces that the properly fit putter performs better and I need to work on setup and fundamentals if I am having trouble aiming and making short putts with the Edel. Their weighting always seems to produce the best distance control and least 3 putts.
I used to keep 2 backups, but 1 was more sentimental as I had sub-30 putts with it. Eventually gave up the dream and sold it off (was a cheap TM).
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5 hours ago, Rob Person said:
The Six T CH and Seven S
When I read this I interpret it as only 10% of pros found this club to perform better than their gamer.
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I have 8 approach shots from 150-200 per round with 30% GIR according to Shot Scope. So option #1 takes me from 2.4 GIR to 6 GIR for an increase of 3.6 GIR/round from 150-200. My up/down overall average was 24%, 3 putt% was 14%
... Applying both of those would have me saving about 2.3 shots per round.
7.7 shots/round under 25 yards with average proximity of 15ft and 35% up/down rate. Assuming 6ft proximity results in 50% up and down, that is only saving 1 shot/round. Actual savings would be less as the 7.7 shots under 25 yards would shrink to around 5.7 with the higher GIR.BONUS: I could also justify playing longer tees to have more approaches from 150-200. Which would reduce my index over time on top of saving the 2.3 shots/round above.
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I got rid of my V2 around May or June of 2023. It was noticeably worse than the V2 at picking up shots and would miss 5-10 per round. The new functionality and better battery wasn't worth it. It does sound like newer firmware has helped others with the X5.
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22 hours ago, vandyland said:
The positives? Setup looks about where I want it (harder to tell with the offset camera angle) and I FELT LIKE I got a better left side bend. However, somehow my butt still extended in the backswing and I came off the "wall." Also, downswing is steep and my divots are now moving me toward the digger pattern.
I will say, these two players look rather different:
Have you done a TPI assessment or other physical exam to see whether you can physically achieve the amount of side bend you need not to extend while swinging at full speed?
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On 12/4/2023 at 10:43 AM, funkyjudge said:
Just for the record — the G425 Max driver was close to an MOI of 9,900 (I think the number was 9,886), and the G430 Max has an MOI of more than 9,900, thus the “pushing 10,000 MOI” marketing language for this driver model. If the new G430 Max 10K driver breaks the 10,000 barrier, it will certainly be a major accomplishment, but it actually represents only a small incremental increase in MOI. Still, it’s something for Ping Golf to base its marketing campaign around, and provides “justification” for the introduction of the “new and improved” highest-MOI driver available in the marketplace.
Where did you find the numbers? I used to like the MGS MOI and CG report but have trouble finding hard data since that report stopped.
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I would be playing the 2nd tees from back at 360. The fairway narrows down to about 40 yards at 120-130 from the hole between the giant trap on right and hill/fescue on left. I'm hitting a driving iron or hybrid off the tee intending to get it out there 220-240. DI even more likely if the winds are up. Aiming directly at that knob or just right of it.
Saw some stat the other day (likely Stagner) that once you are within 150 or 130 from the hole you are close enough that it doesn't make sense to take on sand. So that is my logic for not pushing driver up farther.
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Key thought: high hands... or following through to head height regardless of backswing length so you don't decelerate.
Read the book by James Sieckmann: Your Short Game Solution
Great technique in here on sand shots, I often re-read at the beginning of season as a reminder. Lots of great stuff on any aspect of golf with a wedge in your hand.- cksurfdude, OdinSnipes414, unccross and 1 other
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On 11/22/2023 at 6:19 AM, itsjustagame said:
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On 11/9/2023 at 6:28 PM, CudaKota66 said:
I mean...what advantage does My Strategy provide that the ariel view on the SS app doesn't?
Like Mike Tyson said, "Everybody has a plan.....until they get hit in the mouth."
So...a bunker is 260 to carry & I need to decide if I'm going to play short, play around, or fly it. That distance isn't going to change - whether I see it 3 days in-advance or see it when I'm on the tee. What if there's wind, or a shower pops up?
Personally, I don't get it. I'd rather have green mapping so I know where I should hit an approach from 150 out.
My Strategy gives your tee shot width dispersion with every club. This is used to determine your aim line to avoid hazards (or possibly sand/trees) which is the main benefit. Showing whether you can carry something or not is a smaller benefit especially since it shows total not carry distance. It also adds expected strokes to finish based on whether you are in sand,, rough, fairway, etc. which can be a helpful reference.
Having this mapped out in advance makes it easier to follow a planned strategy vs getting punched in the mouth and deciding you need to play aggressive for birdie after a double. Using less mental energy on this aspect allows you more mental energy for other strategic decisions (like approach shots) where the starting point and ideal target (relative to pin location) isn't know in advance. Checking the mapping as part of your pre-shot routine can help regain focus and find a target on your intended line. Especially on blind tee shots going uphill or around dog legs, that maybe you can't see on the tee...
Green mapping is of even less benefit. The only help is knowing which side of the green is uphill or downhill as you're not going to be playing to specific quadrants of greens from 150 out. Your approach strategy is primarily driven by avoiding greenside sand/hazards, followed by short siding avoidance. Green mapping would really only benefit a small green with no hazards around it and a pin in the middle of the green to give you an idea of which side would leave a uphill chip on a missed GIR to favor. All of this assumes the green has areas of severe slopes that pose an actual challenge which is not always the case.- PhilM75072 and CudaKota66
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Having played this a month and a half ago, I will second the comment about needing a caddie. The tee shot is completely blind and uphill. If you hit driver more than 250 you don't need that much club as the final 80 yards is straight downhill and can be played with a putter (see below
). If you hit 250+ straight you will run through the fairway and into the long fescue as there is minimal rough along the fairway on this links-type setup.
Playing this for the first time without a caddie would be extremely frustrating as you have no idea where to aim and walking up to the fairway, then back to the tee would take a ton of time. The gimmicky layout takes away from the amazing views which was unfortunate and breaks up an amazing finishing stretch between 15-18. I used 19* hybrid which plays 220-230 at sea level, didn't hit it great and still made it to the fairway from the tees at 277.
pin high- Josh Parker, GolfSpy_APH, cksurfdude and 1 other
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The Ryder Cup holds little interest for me, it has become a beating for the home team most times. Not much drama
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On 11/6/2023 at 3:24 PM, Willie T said:
Question to the testing team(@Nunfa0, @BMart519, @RichL85, @GolfSpy SAM)
, myself included: Will you be testing the wedges in “winter” conditions? If I recall @Nunfa0, it’s going into his summer. It has been so dry here in eastern NC along with moderate temps, it’s more like later summer just with brown grass. Just seeing what the thoughts are for these. Me - planning on being out there as often as feasible, wet or dry….
My season ended unknowingly October 10th at Copperhead on my Florida trip. When I got back to Canada the weather turned and courses closed a few days later. There is one goat track that will open on and off over the winter on temp greens. But I don't foresee being desperate enough to get out and if I did it would be in dry, dormant conditions as they don't let you play if its wet.
Won't be many updates from me in this post over the next few months as I also sold my MEVO+ monitor. Next season will start with a comparison of the Indi 60 with my PING Glide 58 that produced better stats this season. But there is some bias in the sample size due to multiple golf trips to new courses/grasses which disadvantaged the Indi's. Indoor work will be on speed training, driver/hybrid full swings, and 40-100 yard wedges on my SC200 launch monitor. The latter is primarily using the Indi's but I don't plan on comparing to previous wedges as they outperformed at the onset of testing already. -
On 11/7/2023 at 6:05 PM, cnosil said:
Based on data captured by Dave Pelz; in the putting bible, here is the miss pattern by handicap. It seems to get wide pretty quickly .
Hard to tell scale, but to my eye looks like 1.5" wide spread begins around 22 index. Maybe an odd one after 12. But there also appears to be 30 index players that have less than 1.5" lateral dispersion.
Callaway is using a 15 point face map according to their promo material, would be interesting to see the details on the distance that covers across the face. If it is 2+ inches wide, there's limited benefit to be gained in real life off the number of balls hit on the edge of the insert for most players. Also interesting the distance variation is much less in the insert model vs milled version putter.
"*Ai-ONE Urethane delivers putts up to 21% closer to the hole from 32’ and Ai-ONE Milled up to 7% closer compared to a Scotty Cameron® Super Select Newport 2.
Based on robot testing with a 15 point face map."- CudaKota66, cnosil and IndyBonzo
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Shot Scope Users Group
in Golf Technology
Posted
UGH. Second round with V5 and I estimate it missed more than 50% of shots. Had the V2 for 7 years for this same reason after the V3 would miss 5-10 per round and similar reviews about missed shots on the X5. Even when detecting the sensors for the first time I had to hold them extremely close to the watch and usually behind the face. When I first tried the V5 I used my existing V2 sensors and it picked them up much further away from the watch during detect process.
So frustrating, I guess I need to take 2 practice swings or hold the club in left hand for extended period as it picked up most short game shots where I usually take 2 practice swings to feel for turf interaction.