RTJ - Too big to fail?

[sixcat]

I found this article very interesting.  I have heard/read some grumblings over the years about Alabama using state funds to build RTJ.  Betting on the revenue generated boosting not only the state economy but also boosting the states pension/retirement system.  The guys on The Shotgun Start have talked about RTJ at length.  But this article goes much further in-depth than anything I had previously heard/read.

https://www.lyingfour.com/conversations-blog/2019/11/28/too-big-to-trail

 

 

[Mr. 82]

Interesting article that doesn't really say anything of substance, or come up with concrete figures to justify saying that the RTJ Trail is losing money and costing the state.  From a journalistic perspective, this article probably never should have been published, because it's pure perception without any evidence, and if you had written this against a private person, or maybe even a public figure, you could be sued for libel.

[fixyurdivot]

All the more reason to check this one off my bucket list... sooner than later.  I've read conflicting information about the "golf is dying" subject... not really sure what the true status of the sport/industry is.  

@Mr. 82what happened to @gswag?

[sixcat]

52 minutes ago, Mr. 82 said:

Interesting article that doesn't really say anything of substance, or come up with concrete figures to justify saying that the RTJ Trail is losing money and costing the state.  From a journalistic perspective, this article probably never should have been published, because it's pure perception without any evidence, and if you had written this against a private person, or maybe even a public figure, you could be sued for libel.

I didn't really get that at all from the article.  The links clearly provided within the article back up any claims made by the article. At least in my estimation. 

Using public funds for projects for the betterment of the masses is a large part of my profession. If a potential client approached me with 15% of the state retirement system investing in-state, I would be very hesitant to enter into a partnership of any kind.  Fund diversity out-of-state protects the overall fund from being divested through in-state corruption and/or fraud.  The national average is much closer to 5% with the majority of that coming from the natural resources such as parks.  Having 15% of the fund tied up in-state is a rather large red flag! 

For example, California has about 8.5% of its fund invested in-state, which is still somewhat high.  The difference is, California has the 5th highest GDP in the world.  California's economy is larger than that of the UK.  Alabama ranks 49th out of 50 states!  Having a "loss-leader" be so instrumental in the success of the state retirement system is absurd.  Again, in my estimation. 

[Mr. 82]

59 minutes ago, fixyurdivot said:

All the more reason to check this one off my bucket list... sooner than later.  I've read conflicting information about the "golf is dying" subject... not really sure what the true status of the sport/industry is.  

@Mr. 82what happened to @gswag?

@fixyurdivot  I sort of explain it in this thread  

Basically, since I suck so bad at golf, I am trademarking and owning my new name.  

[fixyurdivot]

1 hour ago, Mr. 82 said:

@fixyurdivot  I sort of explain it in this thread  

Basically, since I suck so bad at golf, I am trademarking and owning my new name.  

Did not see that post.  Hey, it could be worse.  I've been scoring 80-88 all winter season; nothing in the 90's (yet ) and only two sub 80 rounds (77 last week my best).  

[fixyurdivot]

1 hour ago, Middler said:

Golf won't "die" but there isn't any question golf has been in decline, despite a few up periods (Tiger's prime), for decades. Course closings, golf companies going out of business, participation down, more tee times available (with discounts at many courses), etc. You can find sources (with a vested interest in positive spin) who will tell you golf is up, citing periodic upswings, but the long term trend is down. And juniors isn't the answer. Median age is up considerably, and junior programs are doing well enough, but juniors grow into young adults and about 95% drop golf and don't come back. I know because it's the exact same phenomena with sailing - my other doomed pastime.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/wonk/wp/2015/03/05/why-america-fell-out-of-love-with-golf/

https://www.golf.com/tour-news/2018/05/01/15-numbers-you-need-know-about-us-golf-economy

https://www.statista.com/statistics/191907/participants-in-golf-in-the-us-since-2006/

Lots, lots more available with a simple search.

Well not arguing your position but it's those "other" articles that confuses the topic.  I suppose it getting too popular, such that cost and tee times are problematic, would be worse... 

[SteddyGolf]

I played the RTJ trail (10 courses in 14 days) early last spring. Even with below average temperatures and playing only weekdays the tee sheet at every course was relatively full. It may have been an early season thing but I did notice the staff at every course was not in the type of sales mode to maximize profits. While I don’t like aggressive sales folks I was surprised at the sales apathy. Green fees alone will not keep a Golf Course’s doors open.

 

 

Sent from my iPad using MyGolfSpy

 

[Mr. 82]

51 minutes ago, SteddyGolf said:

I played the RTJ trail (10 courses in 14 days) early last spring. Even with below average temperatures and playing only weekdays the tee sheet at every course was relatively full. It may have been an early season thing but I did notice the staff at every course was not in the type of sales mode to maximize profits. While I don’t like aggressive sales folks I was surprised at the sales apathy. Green fees alone will not keep a Golf Course’s doors open.

What do you mean by "sales mode"?

Beyond having helpful cart dudes, and another dude ringing me up at the counter, what else do you want from a golf course? 

Let me put it another way - the folks at Highland Oaks in Dothan have always been friendly and helpful.  They are as friendly and helpful as just about any other golf course I've played.  At least as a relative local they are above average compared to other golf courses, and maybe it's a southern thing, but I don't want them begging me to buy golf shirts or hats.  If I need anything I can pick it out.

[SteddyGolf]

What do you mean by "sales mode"?
Beyond having helpful cart dudes, and another dude ringing me up at the counter, what else do you want from a golf course? 
Let me put it another way - the folks at Highland Oaks in Dothan have always been friendly and helpful.  They are as friendly and helpful as just about any other golf course I've played.  At least as a relative local they are above average compared to other golf courses, and maybe it's a southern thing, but I don't want them begging me to buy golf shirts or hats.  If I need anything I can pick it out.

Sales mode means to maximize every transaction. Whether you like it or not it drives profits. I’m just like you! Salesmanship turns me off but we are the exception.


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[palvord]

Deleted because apparently reading with comprehension was optional for me yesterday.

[Mr. 82]

6 minutes ago, palvord said:

https://www.lyingfour.com/conversations-blog/2019/11/28/too-big-to-trail

This was an interesting insight to the RTJ and some of the economic concerns

Isn't this link the same as what the OP posted?

[PlaidJacket]

I've played 6 of the courses so far and I've enjoyed playing all of them. I found the courses to all be in very good condition and the staff at each course to be friendly and helpful. As for the politics and economics of the Trail I can't say and really don't have an opinion. To me that's the business of Alabama and their cross to bare for better or worse. Kind of like my neighbor. I like them and wish them well. But how they choose to manage their finances and support their lifestyle isn't any of my business. All states have issues as far their finances are concerned and especially with their funded/unfunded pension plans, etc.. But that's a debate to be held and discussed elsewhere IMO.

For now I've enjoyed playing the RTJ Trail and would return again.

[palvord]

23 hours ago, Mr. 82 said:

Isn't this link the same as what the OP posted?

Why, yes it is. Did not fully realize that. Thanks for pointing it out!