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NPG Episode 42: Should The Golf Ball Be Rolled Back?

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1 hour ago, fixyurdivot said:

Yeah, that many pros players now hit wedges 160+ yards is contributing to the driver & wedge tour comment.  

I disagree. They just feel the tradition of the game is getting skewed and some changes should be made.  Also, it isn't just Jack and Colin.

https://www.cbssports.com/golf/news/tiger-woods-speaks-on-rolling-back-golf-balls-bifurcation-for-pros-and-amateurs/

You still haven't answered my question "at what point does increased hitting distance make it a yawner?"  Not saying it is going to happen, but follow this trend to its logical conclusion and it does change the game.  For some that's an issue, for others it's not.  

Jack is a course designer and has to needs people to have lots of land for him to build his courses and that’s becoming harder so he has to call for the ball to be rolled back but the even more interesting part is that jack also had a golf ball company and he wasnt trying to roll them back. So what is it? Should the ball be rolled back or not? Jack can’t have his cake and eat it too. Jack didn’t have problem over powering courses in his day and wasn’t calling for equipment to be changed because he was hitting past everyone.

Same goes for tiger being a course design and his call for ball roll back. 

 


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Hybrid: Titleist 816H1 21 with Atmos Blue 85 S

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Another great NPG episode.  Just a few things.

1) I dont think balls need to be rolled back

2) I dont agree with bifurcation

3) the thing I dont like the most about this whole thing is that it's based on 1 tour player.  They fussed over Rory but that dust settled until Bryson.  Bryson may have influenced a younger generation to try and do what he does but like they mentioned in NPG, he is probably one of the best and and one of the MOST consistent ball strikers on tour.  At those swing speeds, a fraction of a millimeter off and the ball is gone.  Simply put, he is an elite athlete=freak of nature.  

4) Bryson didnt win.

5) I'm fine with older courses not being in play on tour.  Selfishly, I would love it if pebble beach prices dropped.

6) if they throw everything in reverse as far as technology for distance, I think golf would lose a lot of golfers.  I agree with the idea of growing the grass.  It's simple, doesnt cost any extra money, and if it works problem solved

Lastly, golf is and has been pretty boring to watch.  As far as a better viewing experience (this was mention in NPG about tiger, phil, peyton, and tom) golf needs to change up how they televise.  It never dawned on me but when adam said its ridiculous when commentators whisper on Putts when they are miles away from that green, I laughed so hard. Not apart of the subject but it was a question asked so thought I'd throw it in.

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On 6/23/2020 at 10:10 AM, fixyurdivot said:

So let's ask the question "at what point would increased hitting lengths make the game a yawner"?  Would a large majority of balls rolling onto par 4 greens or aprons off the tee, or second shots on par 5's, be the game you want to watch?  I for one certainly wouldn't.  For my tastes, it would make the game too one dimensional.  Sure bomb drives are fun to watch.  So are home runs in baseball.  But if advances in physical condition or technology suddenly had every other batter swatting balls over the fence, that would be boring to me.  I guess I just like the traditions of these sports.

It's really a sticky wicket.  If you grow the fairway grass to suppress the long drivers but allow the short hitters to roll out close to their drives, is that fair?  8000 yard courses likewise presents a challenge in that the majority of the tour players who aren't long hitters are now penalized.  The Podcast group mentions that the "bomb & wedge" is not true - that in fact many more second shots require mid iron/hybrid clubs.  I haven't seen the data on that, but while watching many events on TV, it sure seems like a LOT of driver/wedge combinations being played.

I like your opening question. But unlike you(?), the distances they're hitting today haven't made the game (more of) a yawner to me - yet. [Slow play in general and taking forever to putt bother me a LOT more] It's fun to watch the big guns hit long drives. But I am just as impressed when they stick a long iron as I am when they stick a wedge - because I know who hard it is (for me) to do, so I appreciate watching people that have mastered the game.

I do think the USGA and R&A need to try to do everything they can to stop distance increases from here on though, at some point it does become too much.

I don't support growing fairway grass. I've been a supporter of growing the grass in the rough and narrowing the fairways out where the really long hitters land (300 yds+?). That way short knockers still have wide fairways at least.

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I think the PGA Tour is in a tough position regarding length. I'm not fond of the PGA tour holding back players but it's also noteworthy the MLB doesn't let their players use metal bats. My fear with the growing length of several players on the PGA tour is actually similar to NASCAR in an odd way. NASCAR leveled the playing field several years ago in term of car performance and I think the series suffered as a result. Ultra-long hitters on the PGA tour that overpower a course presents a similar situation where hitting every par 5 in two and having wedges in every par 4 significantly levels the playing field and makes it difficult for any player to stand out. It's unlikely anyone will run away with a 10 stroke victory with the current situation.

I personally like the idea of tightening up courses and giving players a bigger risk/reward scenario. I don't want the courses to be unfair or set up to make players play to par. Make the fairways a little tighter, rough longer, etc. You don't have to put pins one yard from the edge of the green or have greens reading 15 on the stimp meter. Putting isn't the problem. If Bryson is hitting 400 yard bombs accurately, then he deserves to run away with a tournament.

Moral of the story: set up the course a little tighter and/or with longer rough and let the players go score. It will add some much needed variability into the game that give more players a chance to win.

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3 hours ago, Kansas King said:

I think the PGA Tour is in a tough position regarding length. I'm not fond of the PGA tour holding back players but it's also noteworthy the MLB doesn't let their players use metal bats. My fear with the growing length of several players on the PGA tour is actually similar to NASCAR in an odd way. NASCAR leveled the playing field several years ago in term of car performance and I think the series suffered as a result. Ultra-long hitters on the PGA tour that overpower a course presents a similar situation where hitting every par 5 in two and having wedges in every par 4 significantly levels the playing field and makes it difficult for any player to stand out. It's unlikely anyone will run away with a 10 stroke victory with the current situation.

I personally like the idea of tightening up courses and giving players a bigger risk/reward scenario. I don't want the courses to be unfair or set up to make players play to par. Make the fairways a little tighter, rough longer, etc. You don't have to put pins one yard from the edge of the green or have greens reading 15 on the stimp meter. Putting isn't the problem. If Bryson is hitting 400 yard bombs accurately, then he deserves to run away with a tournament.

Moral of the story: set up the course a little tighter and/or with longer rough and let the players go score. It will add some much needed variability into the game that give more players a chance to win.

Metal bats arent used in the major leagues or pro level because of safety not to control home runs


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Hybrid: Titleist 816H1 21 with Atmos Blue 85 S

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I watch the PGA tour for entertainment, and the LPGA for golf (ok some of the ladies too).

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On 6/25/2020 at 4:51 PM, RickyBobby_PR said:

Metal bats arent used in the major leagues or pro level because of safety not to control home runs

But, dont you think there would be more home runs if you used metal bats? have you ever played on a beer league soft ball team? They have limits on the number of home runs you can hit other wise that is all they would do. 

I don't disagree that a roll back is probably not needed though. But, if the MLB had aluminum bats there would be a 90+ home run year by someone. 


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5 minutes ago, Quigleyd said:

But, dont you think there would be more home runs if you used metal bats? have you ever played on a beer league soft ball team? They have limits on the number of home runs you can hit other wise that is all they would do. 

I don't disagree that a roll back is probably not needed though. But, if the MLB had aluminum bats there would be a 90+ home run year by someone. 

I’ve played in various levels of softball from a beer league to military base teams. that included limited home runs as well as playing with a limited flight ball. Also played in both wood bat and aluminum bat baseball. 
 

Aluminum bats are by far superiors in getting more pop off the bat including non sweetspot hits but for infielders it’s far more dangerous at the amateur level that it would require lots of changes at the pro level to protect the players, even if they put in limited home run rule it’s not a viable pro option


Driver: Titleist 917D3 9.5 with Graphite Design MAD Pro 65g S

Wood: Titleist 917F2 with UST Mamiya Helium 5F4

Hybrid: Titleist 816H1 21 with Atmos Blue 85 S

Irons: Titleist 718 AP3 4i, 718 CB 5-6, MB 7-9 with KBS $ Taper 125

Wedges: Vokey SM7 46/50/54/60 with DG s200

Putter: Scotty Caemeron Super Rat1

Ball: Titleist Prov1

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