richk9holes Posted March 18, 2023 Share Posted March 18, 2023 This chart has me doing a lot of thinking. sirchunksalot 1 Quote Finding a way to turn birdies into bogeys since 1992. #TeamChunks '23 Forum Tester: Elixir Golf Ball WITB:TS2 10.5° @ 11.25° Tensei blue AV 55 R graph•917f2 15° @ 16.5° Diamana blue x5ct dialed 70 R graph•Stealth 22° Ventus red 6 (non-velo) R graph• 699u 2i 17° tgi 70 R graph•24° Tour v 90 black pvd R steel•699 6i-PW Tour 110 black pvd R steel• SM8 50°/08° @ 52°/10° SM8 stock steel• Jaws Full Toe 56°/12° DG Spinner TI steel • c series DW 2.0 slant neck stock steel•Phantom 2 gps•Tour v3 rangefinder•Elixir golf ball• Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
richk9holes Posted March 18, 2023 Author Share Posted March 18, 2023 Usually when this happens I spend $ changing my golf equipment. I think I may be swinging more confidently and could benefit from replacing my high launch lightweight steel Elevate 95 vss R flex. They served me well to this point, but at $26×6 plus install I have my eyes on replacing 6-AW with NS gh pro in a heavier weight. #2 on my list is Modus 105, only bc I've yet to try them and I think they are close to the profile I want. I am looking forward to getting my Sub70 UT, the KBS Tour v 90 I got is the first steel shaft I've used from KBS. They'd have to be really good to get me to pay almost double. sirchunksalot 1 Quote Finding a way to turn birdies into bogeys since 1992. #TeamChunks '23 Forum Tester: Elixir Golf Ball WITB:TS2 10.5° @ 11.25° Tensei blue AV 55 R graph•917f2 15° @ 16.5° Diamana blue x5ct dialed 70 R graph•Stealth 22° Ventus red 6 (non-velo) R graph• 699u 2i 17° tgi 70 R graph•24° Tour v 90 black pvd R steel•699 6i-PW Tour 110 black pvd R steel• SM8 50°/08° @ 52°/10° SM8 stock steel• Jaws Full Toe 56°/12° DG Spinner TI steel • c series DW 2.0 slant neck stock steel•Phantom 2 gps•Tour v3 rangefinder•Elixir golf ball• Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
richk9holes Posted March 18, 2023 Author Share Posted March 18, 2023 (edited) Photo error Edited March 21, 2023 by richk9holes Updated Quote Finding a way to turn birdies into bogeys since 1992. #TeamChunks '23 Forum Tester: Elixir Golf Ball WITB:TS2 10.5° @ 11.25° Tensei blue AV 55 R graph•917f2 15° @ 16.5° Diamana blue x5ct dialed 70 R graph•Stealth 22° Ventus red 6 (non-velo) R graph• 699u 2i 17° tgi 70 R graph•24° Tour v 90 black pvd R steel•699 6i-PW Tour 110 black pvd R steel• SM8 50°/08° @ 52°/10° SM8 stock steel• Jaws Full Toe 56°/12° DG Spinner TI steel • c series DW 2.0 slant neck stock steel•Phantom 2 gps•Tour v3 rangefinder•Elixir golf ball• Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
richk9holes Posted March 18, 2023 Author Share Posted March 18, 2023 I tried posting those without duplicates sorry for the eyesore, but that is an idea of the progress with the irons, I have been using the 6i to warm up since it's been added about 6-8 months ago. I had carried 7i with a 6-7 hybrid iron while I was double bogey or worse a few years ago getting back after a long break up with the game. sirchunksalot 1 Quote Finding a way to turn birdies into bogeys since 1992. #TeamChunks '23 Forum Tester: Elixir Golf Ball WITB:TS2 10.5° @ 11.25° Tensei blue AV 55 R graph•917f2 15° @ 16.5° Diamana blue x5ct dialed 70 R graph•Stealth 22° Ventus red 6 (non-velo) R graph• 699u 2i 17° tgi 70 R graph•24° Tour v 90 black pvd R steel•699 6i-PW Tour 110 black pvd R steel• SM8 50°/08° @ 52°/10° SM8 stock steel• Jaws Full Toe 56°/12° DG Spinner TI steel • c series DW 2.0 slant neck stock steel•Phantom 2 gps•Tour v3 rangefinder•Elixir golf ball• Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
richk9holes Posted March 18, 2023 Author Share Posted March 18, 2023 I find my worst strikes are when I swing an iron 87 mph swing speed or more. My best strikes are when I tone that down about 1.5 mph and have a controlled fluid tempo. I think the 20g in the shaft may make that difference to slow me down that much. sirchunksalot 1 Quote Finding a way to turn birdies into bogeys since 1992. #TeamChunks '23 Forum Tester: Elixir Golf Ball WITB:TS2 10.5° @ 11.25° Tensei blue AV 55 R graph•917f2 15° @ 16.5° Diamana blue x5ct dialed 70 R graph•Stealth 22° Ventus red 6 (non-velo) R graph• 699u 2i 17° tgi 70 R graph•24° Tour v 90 black pvd R steel•699 6i-PW Tour 110 black pvd R steel• SM8 50°/08° @ 52°/10° SM8 stock steel• Jaws Full Toe 56°/12° DG Spinner TI steel • c series DW 2.0 slant neck stock steel•Phantom 2 gps•Tour v3 rangefinder•Elixir golf ball• Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
richk9holes Posted March 18, 2023 Author Share Posted March 18, 2023 I'm curious to hear others opinion on a mid launch shaft in the 100-115 range for someone swinging 83-86mph with a 6/7i sirchunksalot 1 Quote Finding a way to turn birdies into bogeys since 1992. #TeamChunks '23 Forum Tester: Elixir Golf Ball WITB:TS2 10.5° @ 11.25° Tensei blue AV 55 R graph•917f2 15° @ 16.5° Diamana blue x5ct dialed 70 R graph•Stealth 22° Ventus red 6 (non-velo) R graph• 699u 2i 17° tgi 70 R graph•24° Tour v 90 black pvd R steel•699 6i-PW Tour 110 black pvd R steel• SM8 50°/08° @ 52°/10° SM8 stock steel• Jaws Full Toe 56°/12° DG Spinner TI steel • c series DW 2.0 slant neck stock steel•Phantom 2 gps•Tour v3 rangefinder•Elixir golf ball• Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rkj427 Posted March 18, 2023 Share Posted March 18, 2023 Modus 105, 115, 120 Dynamic Gold 105 Project X I/O All shafts have different profiles, based on your swing, best to get fit into them for optimal results sirchunksalot and edingc 2 Quote Driver & Fairway: Titleist TSR3 10 degree - Ventus TR Blue & TSR3 15 - Project X Hzrdus Smoke Black Hybrid: Callaway Apex UW 19 - Hzrdus Smoke Black Irons: Titleist T200 3G (4) & T150 - (5-G) - Project X LZ Wedges: Vokey SM8 54, and 58 Putter: Cameron Phantom X 7 Ball: Pro V1 & Maxfli Tour Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
richk9holes Posted March 19, 2023 Author Share Posted March 19, 2023 (edited) 3 hours ago, rkj427 said: Modus 105, 115, 120 Dynamic Gold 105 Project X I/O All shafts have different profiles, based on your swing, best to get fit into them for optimal results This is the best solution for most people doing this pondering. I'm a believer in the value of club fitters. My personal factors lead me to the less than ideal scenario of self fitting by trial and error. I pay monthly for access to Trackman already, I have put together my bag and several previous "sets" not more than 2 clubs that match at a time with a hodgepodge of dozens of shafts over the years. I am also, as the kids say "Ballin on a budget." My total budget for irons is $250-$300 for changing the shafts on mine or $400-450 if I trade mine for a different shaft/head setup. Taking $100 from that budget for custom fitting seems deleterious to the quality of equipment I'll likely walk away with. Also, I am a double digit handicap with a highly irregular and inconsistent swing. My personal leaning is I'd get fitted if I could ever legitimately call myself a single digit. Edited March 19, 2023 by richk9holes Additional information sirchunksalot 1 Quote Finding a way to turn birdies into bogeys since 1992. #TeamChunks '23 Forum Tester: Elixir Golf Ball WITB:TS2 10.5° @ 11.25° Tensei blue AV 55 R graph•917f2 15° @ 16.5° Diamana blue x5ct dialed 70 R graph•Stealth 22° Ventus red 6 (non-velo) R graph• 699u 2i 17° tgi 70 R graph•24° Tour v 90 black pvd R steel•699 6i-PW Tour 110 black pvd R steel• SM8 50°/08° @ 52°/10° SM8 stock steel• Jaws Full Toe 56°/12° DG Spinner TI steel • c series DW 2.0 slant neck stock steel•Phantom 2 gps•Tour v3 rangefinder•Elixir golf ball• Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RickyBobby_PR Posted March 19, 2023 Share Posted March 19, 2023 21 hours ago, richk9holes said: I'm curious to hear others opinion on a mid launch shaft in the 100-115 range for someone swinging 83-86mph with a 6/7i The marketed launch characteristics are just a generic description of the shaft design, where the stiffness is in the shaft. Example the x7 are low launch and low spin but tiger hits them high. Another example is the s300 and px 6.0 shafts are also low launch, i hit them high and the same height as modus 120 S How the weight of the shafts, balance of the club and how they feel to the golfer will influence the swing and that’s whats going to determine the launch characteristics sirchunksalot and richk9holes 2 Quote Driver: PXG 0811 X+ Proto w/UST Helium 5F4 Wood: TaylorMade M5 5W w/Accra TZ5 +1/2”, TaylorMade Sim 3W w/Aldila rogue white Hybrid: PXG Gen2 22* w/AD hybrid Irons: PXG Gen3 0311T w/Nippon modus 120 Wedges: TaylorMade MG2 50*, Tiger grind 56/60 Putter: Scotty Caemeron Super Rat1 Ball: Titleist Prov1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
richk9holes Posted March 19, 2023 Author Share Posted March 19, 2023 I hit the ball high, which is why I want to try a kbs 100g shaft or NS gh 1050 rather than my 90g Elevate. I feel destined to hit front aprons and fronts of tiered greens unless I take extra club, then I invite the dreaded "perfect swing didn't plan on" where I send it over 18 yards short side myself and make triple off a "sweet strike" from the tee. I will get a lot of information from using the utility iron I have coming. sirchunksalot 1 Quote Finding a way to turn birdies into bogeys since 1992. #TeamChunks '23 Forum Tester: Elixir Golf Ball WITB:TS2 10.5° @ 11.25° Tensei blue AV 55 R graph•917f2 15° @ 16.5° Diamana blue x5ct dialed 70 R graph•Stealth 22° Ventus red 6 (non-velo) R graph• 699u 2i 17° tgi 70 R graph•24° Tour v 90 black pvd R steel•699 6i-PW Tour 110 black pvd R steel• SM8 50°/08° @ 52°/10° SM8 stock steel• Jaws Full Toe 56°/12° DG Spinner TI steel • c series DW 2.0 slant neck stock steel•Phantom 2 gps•Tour v3 rangefinder•Elixir golf ball• Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RickyBobby_PR Posted March 19, 2023 Share Posted March 19, 2023 8 hours ago, richk9holes said: I hit the ball high, which is why I want to try a kbs 100g shaft or NS gh 1050 rather than my 90g Elevate. I feel destined to hit front aprons and fronts of tiered greens unless I take extra club, then I invite the dreaded "perfect swing didn't plan on" where I send it over 18 yards short side myself and make triple off a "sweet strike" from the tee. I will get a lot of information from using the utility iron I have coming. Why do you hit it high? Knowing why something happens goes a long way. Adding loft is usually why most amateurs hit the ball high. Shafts can influence that negatively or positively. Depends on how the change in shaft weight and/or profile affects the golfers delivery. What is your dynamic loft? where on the face are you making contact? whats your launch and spin? These are all things that need to be evaluated and then compared when you switch shafts to see what changed and how it’s affecting results richk9holes 1 Quote Driver: PXG 0811 X+ Proto w/UST Helium 5F4 Wood: TaylorMade M5 5W w/Accra TZ5 +1/2”, TaylorMade Sim 3W w/Aldila rogue white Hybrid: PXG Gen2 22* w/AD hybrid Irons: PXG Gen3 0311T w/Nippon modus 120 Wedges: TaylorMade MG2 50*, Tiger grind 56/60 Putter: Scotty Caemeron Super Rat1 Ball: Titleist Prov1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
richk9holes Posted March 19, 2023 Author Share Posted March 19, 2023 The Dick's SG by my house has a pre-owned PXG 4i 0311xf 5-PW 0311 combo set with modus 3 tour 105 reg flex. I'm not too interested in the clubs as a set, but I stopped in for the 3rd time and waggle the heck out of the 6 and 7 irons today. They feel so GD balanced I kinda want to spend the $250 to change my stock shafts. That's my non analytical side of my mind talking, btw. sirchunksalot 1 Quote Finding a way to turn birdies into bogeys since 1992. #TeamChunks '23 Forum Tester: Elixir Golf Ball WITB:TS2 10.5° @ 11.25° Tensei blue AV 55 R graph•917f2 15° @ 16.5° Diamana blue x5ct dialed 70 R graph•Stealth 22° Ventus red 6 (non-velo) R graph• 699u 2i 17° tgi 70 R graph•24° Tour v 90 black pvd R steel•699 6i-PW Tour 110 black pvd R steel• SM8 50°/08° @ 52°/10° SM8 stock steel• Jaws Full Toe 56°/12° DG Spinner TI steel • c series DW 2.0 slant neck stock steel•Phantom 2 gps•Tour v3 rangefinder•Elixir golf ball• Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
richk9holes Posted March 19, 2023 Author Share Posted March 19, 2023 10 hours ago, RickyBobby_PR said: Why do you hit it high? Knowing why something happens goes a long way. Adding loft is usually why most amateurs hit the ball high. Shafts can influence that negatively or positively. Depends on how the change in shaft weight and/or profile affects the golfers delivery. What is your dynamic loft? where on the face are you making contact? whats your launch and spin? These are all things that need to be evaluated and then compared when you switch shafts to see what changed and how it’s affecting results Trackman gives me launch 18.5° on a good 86mph swing in the center of a 6i (26.5°) attack angle of -3° resulting in 75' apex, 5800 spin 140 yard carry 150 yard total. That club has a TT XP 95 R flex and is 1" longer than standard at 38.5". A 9i (38.5°) which has the Elevate 95 vss R flex shaft like the rest of my set best result shows 26° launch on 82.5 mph swing speed, attack angle -4.5° creating a 95' apex, 9000 spin 123 carry 125 total. Dynamic loft is fuzzy w/o knowing the adjustments used for the different nuances. I would guess between 13-16°. My most common miss is a toe strike followed by a low on the face strike. Rarely toward the heel. When I can get stats from the 24° UT in a couple weeks I will have those to compare to the 6i numbers. sirchunksalot 1 Quote Finding a way to turn birdies into bogeys since 1992. #TeamChunks '23 Forum Tester: Elixir Golf Ball WITB:TS2 10.5° @ 11.25° Tensei blue AV 55 R graph•917f2 15° @ 16.5° Diamana blue x5ct dialed 70 R graph•Stealth 22° Ventus red 6 (non-velo) R graph• 699u 2i 17° tgi 70 R graph•24° Tour v 90 black pvd R steel•699 6i-PW Tour 110 black pvd R steel• SM8 50°/08° @ 52°/10° SM8 stock steel• Jaws Full Toe 56°/12° DG Spinner TI steel • c series DW 2.0 slant neck stock steel•Phantom 2 gps•Tour v3 rangefinder•Elixir golf ball• Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RickyBobby_PR Posted March 20, 2023 Share Posted March 20, 2023 1 hour ago, richk9holes said: Trackman gives me launch 18.5° on a good 86mph swing in the center of a 6i (26.5°) attack angle of -3° resulting in 75' apex, 5800 spin 140 yard carry 150 yard total. That club has a TT XP 95 R flex and is 1" longer than standard at 38.5". A 9i (38.5°) which has the Elevate 95 vss R flex shaft like the rest of my set best result shows 26° launch on 82.5 mph swing speed, attack angle -4.5° creating a 95' apex, 9000 spin 123 carry 125 total. Dynamic loft is fuzzy w/o knowing the adjustments used for the different nuances. I would guess between 13-16°. My most common miss is a toe strike followed by a low on the face strike. Rarely toward the heel. When I can get stats from the 24° UT in a couple weeks I will have those to compare to the 6i numbers. If you are swing 82.5 on 9i and 86 on 6i your distances are off. Mid 80s swing speed with a 6i is going to have carry in the 165is range and 82.5 mph 9i swing speed is going to be around 150. Also a 75’ 6i isn’t high ball flight. The 95’ 9i is about normal. I would prefer to see screen shots from trackman. Something doesn’t seem to be adding up Quote Driver: PXG 0811 X+ Proto w/UST Helium 5F4 Wood: TaylorMade M5 5W w/Accra TZ5 +1/2”, TaylorMade Sim 3W w/Aldila rogue white Hybrid: PXG Gen2 22* w/AD hybrid Irons: PXG Gen3 0311T w/Nippon modus 120 Wedges: TaylorMade MG2 50*, Tiger grind 56/60 Putter: Scotty Caemeron Super Rat1 Ball: Titleist Prov1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
richk9holes Posted March 20, 2023 Author Share Posted March 20, 2023 These are the reasons this is the conversation I'd never pay $95 to have. Having free chats and experimenting with equipment seems to suit me. I have side action on my swing which contributes to a loss of yardage. My stock shot has about 25' of right movement. There are screen captures the best I can get above, can't seem to switch the view horizontal to get grabs on the trackman app to get every column. Once I posted them here and they started duplicating I gave up the endeavor. Another thing I'll say is trackman seems to shave about 8% of my distance. These are #s from January. I have notes on scorecards from that whole month that say 158 to back, 6i on back..163 to pin 6i PH, etc Quote Finding a way to turn birdies into bogeys since 1992. #TeamChunks '23 Forum Tester: Elixir Golf Ball WITB:TS2 10.5° @ 11.25° Tensei blue AV 55 R graph•917f2 15° @ 16.5° Diamana blue x5ct dialed 70 R graph•Stealth 22° Ventus red 6 (non-velo) R graph• 699u 2i 17° tgi 70 R graph•24° Tour v 90 black pvd R steel•699 6i-PW Tour 110 black pvd R steel• SM8 50°/08° @ 52°/10° SM8 stock steel• Jaws Full Toe 56°/12° DG Spinner TI steel • c series DW 2.0 slant neck stock steel•Phantom 2 gps•Tour v3 rangefinder•Elixir golf ball• Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
richk9holes Posted March 20, 2023 Author Share Posted March 20, 2023 My hunch is Trackman doesn't capture my entire shot arc because it goes outside what the thing can capture when I hit a good high fade. Quote Finding a way to turn birdies into bogeys since 1992. #TeamChunks '23 Forum Tester: Elixir Golf Ball WITB:TS2 10.5° @ 11.25° Tensei blue AV 55 R graph•917f2 15° @ 16.5° Diamana blue x5ct dialed 70 R graph•Stealth 22° Ventus red 6 (non-velo) R graph• 699u 2i 17° tgi 70 R graph•24° Tour v 90 black pvd R steel•699 6i-PW Tour 110 black pvd R steel• SM8 50°/08° @ 52°/10° SM8 stock steel• Jaws Full Toe 56°/12° DG Spinner TI steel • c series DW 2.0 slant neck stock steel•Phantom 2 gps•Tour v3 rangefinder•Elixir golf ball• Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
richk9holes Posted March 20, 2023 Author Share Posted March 20, 2023 Here's the full trackman data on some concise 8i swings I took early Jan. I am hitting my iron a little better now, still very inconsistent. Quote Finding a way to turn birdies into bogeys since 1992. #TeamChunks '23 Forum Tester: Elixir Golf Ball WITB:TS2 10.5° @ 11.25° Tensei blue AV 55 R graph•917f2 15° @ 16.5° Diamana blue x5ct dialed 70 R graph•Stealth 22° Ventus red 6 (non-velo) R graph• 699u 2i 17° tgi 70 R graph•24° Tour v 90 black pvd R steel•699 6i-PW Tour 110 black pvd R steel• SM8 50°/08° @ 52°/10° SM8 stock steel• Jaws Full Toe 56°/12° DG Spinner TI steel • c series DW 2.0 slant neck stock steel•Phantom 2 gps•Tour v3 rangefinder•Elixir golf ball• Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cnosil Posted March 20, 2023 Share Posted March 20, 2023 @richk9holes looked through your posts and here is my self researched non professional opinion. You said you have an I consistent swing, hit the ball too high, think trackman misreads your ball flight, and cuts off some of your distance versus on course. I don’t think you ball flight is too high; although you do have some inconsistent results. For reference, I saw in a TXG video that ball height for normal speed players should match the swing speed for your 6 iron. For you that means ball height should be in the 86’ range based on what you provided. This would be desired height for all clubs. As for trackman distances, some people don’t swing well indoors and some people do report discrepancies in distance. When comparing are you looking at carry or total distance? I am surprised yout trackman carry and total are the same wonder why the setting for fairway conditions are set to? You mention that you think trackman isn’t reading all your flight; I think you are mistaken as you don’t have anything wildly out of norm with you ball flight. your swing is fairly consistent; most are, you seem to alter you AoA a bunch though. Your swing is significantly out to in with a face very open to that path which gives you some left to right curve, 30’ isn’t much. The path and face angle means that you don’t hit the ball solid since you cut across the ball so much. Our to in isn’t bad, but reining that in to about 3 or 4 degrees and fixing face angle would go a long way in getting better launch conditions. I personally wouldn’t worry about equipment changes and would focus more on some swing tweaks. russtopherb, edingc, berkeleybob and 1 other 4 Quote Driver: G400 Max 9* w/ KBS Tour Driven Fairway: TS3 15* w/Project X Hzardous Smoke Hybrids: 915H 21* w/KBS Tour Graphite Hybrid Prototype 915H 24* w/KBS Tour Graphite Hybrid Prototype Irons: TR20V 6-11 w/Vizard TR20-85 Graphite Wedge: 54/12D, 60/8M w/:Accra iWedge 90 Graphite Putter: Sacks Parente MC 3 Stripe Backup Putters: Milled Collection RSX 2, mFGP2, Futura 5W, TM-180 Member: MGS Hitsquad since 2017 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RickyBobby_PR Posted March 20, 2023 Share Posted March 20, 2023 12 hours ago, richk9holes said: These are the reasons this is the conversation I'd never pay $95 to have. Having free chats and experimenting with equipment seems to suit me. I have side action on my swing which contributes to a loss of yardage. My stock shot has about 25' of right movement. There are screen captures the best I can get above, can't seem to switch the view horizontal to get grabs on the trackman app to get every column. Once I posted them here and they started duplicating I gave up the endeavor. Another thing I'll say is trackman seems to shave about 8% of my distance. These are #s from January. I have notes on scorecards from that whole month that say 158 to back, 6i on back..163 to pin 6i PH, etc Experimenting with equipment is fine and can be fun but it introduces lots of variables and can be expensive. The problem with experimenting especially with an inconsistent swing is you don’t know if you are fighting the new shaft and it’s feel or if it’s helping your swing. The fitting fee and the process when done with a good fitter is worth the price for several reasons. They are going to get you in a setup that doesn’t require the golfer to fight the club to hit they s*** they want but allow them to have one that works with their swing. They will explain what’s happening and what they are doing to help. The golfer learns what works for their swing and why and can use that as a baseline to do future experimenting by narrowing down the shafts and clubs to experiment with You have side action because your swing is coming from outside to in and you are going to hit lots or fades and slices You are confusing your total distance on the course with carry distance per trackman, they are two different things. 12 hours ago, richk9holes said: My hunch is Trackman doesn't capture my entire shot arc because it goes outside what the thing can capture when I hit a good high fade. Trackman uses algorithms for several of the output it gives. I’ve used trackman on a range that the balls with driver would go into the trees, it. Still produced accurate measurements of my launch and spin. 12 hours ago, richk9holes said: Here's the full trackman data on some concise 8i swings I took early Jan. I am hitting my iron a little better now, still very inconsistent. You have a consistent swing as most people do, the problem of inconsistency is in how you compensate for the swing faults and how good those are repeatable, but things like your takeaway, backswing and downswing movements are going to be very similar from swing to swing but your grip may change or how your rotate arms or set wrists are changing and causing your inconsistencies. Your money would be best spent on getting lessons to reduce the wide variation from swing to swing. Every golfer including the pros make compensations in their swing. The better ones are more consistent in repeating them. Quote Driver: PXG 0811 X+ Proto w/UST Helium 5F4 Wood: TaylorMade M5 5W w/Accra TZ5 +1/2”, TaylorMade Sim 3W w/Aldila rogue white Hybrid: PXG Gen2 22* w/AD hybrid Irons: PXG Gen3 0311T w/Nippon modus 120 Wedges: TaylorMade MG2 50*, Tiger grind 56/60 Putter: Scotty Caemeron Super Rat1 Ball: Titleist Prov1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
richk9holes Posted March 20, 2023 Author Share Posted March 20, 2023 Seems like a lot of variables to add to try to change my approach angle after 31 years of resisting various coaching. Lessons would replace my access to trackman in my budget, so I'd be at the whim of others' schedules for my 1 hour a month rather than 2hr self-reflecting. I was considering cutting that expense for the indoor place and putting the money towards a twilight full access membership somewhere to save on tee times for my self-teaching. That's the more likely expenditure of $80 per month on golf. I will stress I think golf professionals fill an important and valuable role. I just think I am the person they will benefit the least. The average fitter and/or teaching pro doesn't need to mix my swing tendencies and mental wandering into what was otherwise a strong data set in their professional career. Quote Finding a way to turn birdies into bogeys since 1992. #TeamChunks '23 Forum Tester: Elixir Golf Ball WITB:TS2 10.5° @ 11.25° Tensei blue AV 55 R graph•917f2 15° @ 16.5° Diamana blue x5ct dialed 70 R graph•Stealth 22° Ventus red 6 (non-velo) R graph• 699u 2i 17° tgi 70 R graph•24° Tour v 90 black pvd R steel•699 6i-PW Tour 110 black pvd R steel• SM8 50°/08° @ 52°/10° SM8 stock steel• Jaws Full Toe 56°/12° DG Spinner TI steel • c series DW 2.0 slant neck stock steel•Phantom 2 gps•Tour v3 rangefinder•Elixir golf ball• Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cnosil Posted March 20, 2023 Share Posted March 20, 2023 19 minutes ago, richk9holes said: Seems like a lot of variables to add to try to change my approach angle after 31 years of resisting various coaching. Lessons would replace my access to trackman in my budget, so I'd be at the whim of others' schedules for my 1 hour a month rather than 2hr self-reflecting. I was considering cutting that expense for the indoor place and putting the money towards a twilight full access membership somewhere to save on tee times for my self-teaching. That's the more likely expenditure of $80 per month on golf. I will stress I think golf professionals fill an important and valuable role. I just think I am the person they will benefit the least. The average fitter and/or teaching pro doesn't need to mix my swing tendencies and mental wandering into what was otherwise a strong data set in their professional career. Each player should do what the feel is best. Lesson, buying equipment, use of launch monitors are all up to you. You sound like a DIYer so I’d suggest you do research into what all the numbers mean and what ranges you should try to fit yourself into if you are going to leverage launch monitors and the data. If you are going to be a range rat, you need to figure out the source your problems and how to correct them. edingc and richk9holes 2 Quote Driver: G400 Max 9* w/ KBS Tour Driven Fairway: TS3 15* w/Project X Hzardous Smoke Hybrids: 915H 21* w/KBS Tour Graphite Hybrid Prototype 915H 24* w/KBS Tour Graphite Hybrid Prototype Irons: TR20V 6-11 w/Vizard TR20-85 Graphite Wedge: 54/12D, 60/8M w/:Accra iWedge 90 Graphite Putter: Sacks Parente MC 3 Stripe Backup Putters: Milled Collection RSX 2, mFGP2, Futura 5W, TM-180 Member: MGS Hitsquad since 2017 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
edingc Posted March 20, 2023 Share Posted March 20, 2023 22 minutes ago, cnosil said: If you are going to be a range rat, you need to figure out the source your problems and how to correct them. This. I'd concur that there should be at least one or two lessons spent trying to identify the source of the path/face relationship. Well before I'd consider spending more money on swapping shafts. Based on Trackman's optimizer, there is 25+ yards to be gained at those swing speeds: richk9holes and cnosil 2 Quote Unofficial WHS Handicap: 7.5 / Anti-Cap: 13.0 (Last Updated Feb. 19, 2024) Driver: Callaway Paradym TD (10.5°, -1/N), 45.75", Fujikura Motore X F1 6X | Fitting Post 3 Wood: Cobra RadSpeed Big Tour (14.5°), 43", Fujikura Motore X F1 7X 20° Hybrid: PXG 0211 (2020 Model), 40.25", Mitsubishi Tensei AV RAW White 90X 4 Utility: Cobra KING Utility (2020 Model), 38.5", Aerotech SteelFiber i110cw Stiff 5-PW: Ben Hogan PTx Pro, 37" 7 Iron, Aerotech SteelFiber i125cw Stiff | Club Champion Fitting 50°, 54°, 58°: Edel SMS, V Grind, Nippon Modus 125 Wedge| Official Review Thread Putter: L.A.B. Golf DF 2.1, 36", 68°, Black with Custom Sightlines, BGT Stability Tour, L.A.B. Press II 3° | Unofficial Review Grips: Star Sidewinder, Undersized with Custom Tape Build-Up Ball: Snell MTB-X Optic Yellow Tracked By: Shot Scope H4 Bag: Personalized 2020 Sun Mountain Sync Riding On: Bag Boy Nitron | Official Review Thread WITB? | 2022 Reviewer Edel SMS Wedges | 2021 Reviewer Maxfli Tour and Tour X Balls | 2020 Participant #CobraConnect Challenge | 2019 Reviewer Callaway Epic Flash Driver Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RickyBobby_PR Posted March 20, 2023 Share Posted March 20, 2023 2 hours ago, richk9holes said: Seems like a lot of variables to add to try to change my approach angle after 31 years of resisting various coaching. Lessons would replace my access to trackman in my budget, so I'd be at the whim of others' schedules for my 1 hour a month rather than 2hr self-reflecting. I was considering cutting that expense for the indoor place and putting the money towards a twilight full access membership somewhere to save on tee times for my self-teaching. That's the more likely expenditure of $80 per month on golf. I will stress I think golf professionals fill an important and valuable role. I just think I am the person they will benefit the least. The average fitter and/or teaching pro doesn't need to mix my swing tendencies and mental wandering into what was otherwise a strong data set in their professional career. There are lots of variables. One is understanding the golf swing so that you can identify the cause of an issue and a way to resolve it. A launch monitor is good but without knowledge of the swing and/or ball flight laws to understand what’s happening it just becomes a fancy device to have for seeing numbers Just like a coach in other area whether it be a personal trainer, mental coach, baseball coach the professional has seen it all and their job is to help the person paying for their services to improve whatever they are doing. The same goes for the fitter their job is to get the golfer in the best equipment for them. To say you would benefit the least is nonsense imo. Fittings and lessons are learning experiences. If anyone is trying to be better at anything learning as much as possible goes along way. Since you have a preference to go about things on your own then I suggest studying and learning the golf swing. That can be done several ways. Instructors like Chris Ryan and athletic motion golf have free video content on YouTube that explains how to grip the club, how to takeaway the right way, how to make the proper backswing and downswing. They have fault videos as well Then there are membership sites from the amg free portion up to somewhat all inclusive memberships. To name some would be amg, Eric Cogorno, George Gankas, Milo lines, meandmygolf Other options would be buying efficient swing, no turn cast, broom force and power shift from rebellion golf. Or some combo of those. These all will give you and understanding of the swing and a way to build a good swing Remember you’ve been doing the samething for 31 years it’s not going to get fixed overnight or in a short period of time. Pros take 18-24 months for swing changes to take hold. Improving little by little is going to be more effective richk9holes 1 Quote Driver: PXG 0811 X+ Proto w/UST Helium 5F4 Wood: TaylorMade M5 5W w/Accra TZ5 +1/2”, TaylorMade Sim 3W w/Aldila rogue white Hybrid: PXG Gen2 22* w/AD hybrid Irons: PXG Gen3 0311T w/Nippon modus 120 Wedges: TaylorMade MG2 50*, Tiger grind 56/60 Putter: Scotty Caemeron Super Rat1 Ball: Titleist Prov1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
richk9holes Posted March 20, 2023 Author Share Posted March 20, 2023 The way I see it the Trackman is a peripheral to using the indoor simulator. 1 hr there is used 90% on playing up to 27 holes on courses I'd never be invited to nor pay for travel if I were. The 10 swings I take before I play a round have the added benefit i have stored data on them. I'm paying for the 1st part. The 2nd happens to come with it. I maybe should have specified I'm not on course or grass range this is a booth hitting off a mat into a screen the numbers I shared. When I say Trackman shaves 8% yardage, more accurate to say hitting off a mat shaves 8% yardage. The way some shots interact with the simulator during a round I am skeptical at best that the scope of the launch monitor captures the full arc of some shots. Could be error with how the cameras are set. Also the booth is tight in some of the bays. Something that would not bother most people, but for me puts the wall behind me in play with clubs 43" and longer because my backswing can touch if I take a bad slice swing. Quote Finding a way to turn birdies into bogeys since 1992. #TeamChunks '23 Forum Tester: Elixir Golf Ball WITB:TS2 10.5° @ 11.25° Tensei blue AV 55 R graph•917f2 15° @ 16.5° Diamana blue x5ct dialed 70 R graph•Stealth 22° Ventus red 6 (non-velo) R graph• 699u 2i 17° tgi 70 R graph•24° Tour v 90 black pvd R steel•699 6i-PW Tour 110 black pvd R steel• SM8 50°/08° @ 52°/10° SM8 stock steel• Jaws Full Toe 56°/12° DG Spinner TI steel • c series DW 2.0 slant neck stock steel•Phantom 2 gps•Tour v3 rangefinder•Elixir golf ball• Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
richk9holes Posted March 21, 2023 Author Share Posted March 21, 2023 As far as confusion, I'm assessing cold numbers I got off a computer in a closed environment so I don't see any room for confusion. 141 carry on the 6i total distance 151 at 86mph and about that apex and if you multiply 1.08 arrive at 163. That is the club with XP 95 shaft. It's the other clubs that have Elevate 95 shafts 7-AW. Those are the clubs often with the same or similar carry/distance from a Trackman session. They release on the course like normal conditions. Once again, 4 yards on a 90 yard shot my total distance is shaved on trackman vs. on course 4.5% in that regard. Combined with an equivalent loss on carry, it just feels intuitively like the simulation isn't fully capturing reality. My own personal feeling after 60 hours on one of the things. Even still if you take a 122 yard 9i and multiply 1.09 I'm still 15 yards short of where a 82mph swing should be. A 99'+ Apex on some 8/9i shots is high. Thanks for clarifying that. If I go back further in '22 my apexes are often above 90'. Any given day I'm attempting a window drill like a slob taking some of the swings on these reports so that must be factored in AoA assessment. Quote Finding a way to turn birdies into bogeys since 1992. #TeamChunks '23 Forum Tester: Elixir Golf Ball WITB:TS2 10.5° @ 11.25° Tensei blue AV 55 R graph•917f2 15° @ 16.5° Diamana blue x5ct dialed 70 R graph•Stealth 22° Ventus red 6 (non-velo) R graph• 699u 2i 17° tgi 70 R graph•24° Tour v 90 black pvd R steel•699 6i-PW Tour 110 black pvd R steel• SM8 50°/08° @ 52°/10° SM8 stock steel• Jaws Full Toe 56°/12° DG Spinner TI steel • c series DW 2.0 slant neck stock steel•Phantom 2 gps•Tour v3 rangefinder•Elixir golf ball• Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cnosil Posted March 21, 2023 Share Posted March 21, 2023 15 minutes ago, richk9holes said: As far as confusion, I'm assessing cold numbers I got off a computer in a closed environment so I don't see any room for confusion. 141 carry on the 6i total distance 151 at 86mph and about that apex and if you multiply 1.08 arrive at 163. That is the club with XP 95 shaft. It's the other clubs that have Elevate 95 shafts 7-AW. Those are the clubs often with the same or similar carry/distance from a Trackman session. They release on the course like normal conditions. Once again, 4 yards on a 90 yard shot my total distance is shaved on trackman vs. on course 4.5% in that regard. Combined with an equivalent loss on carry, it just feels intuitively like the simulation isn't fully capturing reality. My own personal feeling after 60 hours on one of the things. Even still if you take a 122 yard 9i and multiply 1.09 I'm still 15 yards short of where a 82mph swing should be. A 99'+ Apex on some 8/9i shots is high. Thanks for clarifying that. If I go back further in '22 my apexes are often above 90'. Any given day I'm attempting a window drill like a slob taking some of the swings on these reports so that must be factored in AoA assessment. I am totally confused by what you are multiplying. From what you have said: you struggle in the sim room due to confined space; my guess is this is why you don't get the same distances as you do on the course. If you height is significantly above 90', yes you are probably too high. I don't think it is shaft, but your swing. The release on the trackman is related to its fairway firmness settings; if you have it set to soft you may not see rollout. Quote Driver: G400 Max 9* w/ KBS Tour Driven Fairway: TS3 15* w/Project X Hzardous Smoke Hybrids: 915H 21* w/KBS Tour Graphite Hybrid Prototype 915H 24* w/KBS Tour Graphite Hybrid Prototype Irons: TR20V 6-11 w/Vizard TR20-85 Graphite Wedge: 54/12D, 60/8M w/:Accra iWedge 90 Graphite Putter: Sacks Parente MC 3 Stripe Backup Putters: Milled Collection RSX 2, mFGP2, Futura 5W, TM-180 Member: MGS Hitsquad since 2017 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
richk9holes Posted March 21, 2023 Author Share Posted March 21, 2023 My observed loss of 8% yardage is what I'm multiplying. A full trackman captured 6i ×1.08 gets me the expected results I would see on course. As said above, I often note PH on a 6i strike I'm attempting 160-163 on course. Never have I ever in 60 hours touched a 16_ any number with trackman in 60 hours. New technology is incomplete, I'm not expecting perfect simulation. I'm also not confused about what hard numbers are in front of me. This and the 1.09 number are complete estimates of something as intangible as my anecdotal observation. Quote Finding a way to turn birdies into bogeys since 1992. #TeamChunks '23 Forum Tester: Elixir Golf Ball WITB:TS2 10.5° @ 11.25° Tensei blue AV 55 R graph•917f2 15° @ 16.5° Diamana blue x5ct dialed 70 R graph•Stealth 22° Ventus red 6 (non-velo) R graph• 699u 2i 17° tgi 70 R graph•24° Tour v 90 black pvd R steel•699 6i-PW Tour 110 black pvd R steel• SM8 50°/08° @ 52°/10° SM8 stock steel• Jaws Full Toe 56°/12° DG Spinner TI steel • c series DW 2.0 slant neck stock steel•Phantom 2 gps•Tour v3 rangefinder•Elixir golf ball• Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
richk9holes Posted March 21, 2023 Author Share Posted March 21, 2023 And I said confined space as a final point and specifically referencing clubs 43" + that would not be my irons, I am not a gigantoid. It's a point about why my Driver avg on the simulator is 215 or so with better length on the course, and pretty much an aside. Quote Finding a way to turn birdies into bogeys since 1992. #TeamChunks '23 Forum Tester: Elixir Golf Ball WITB:TS2 10.5° @ 11.25° Tensei blue AV 55 R graph•917f2 15° @ 16.5° Diamana blue x5ct dialed 70 R graph•Stealth 22° Ventus red 6 (non-velo) R graph• 699u 2i 17° tgi 70 R graph•24° Tour v 90 black pvd R steel•699 6i-PW Tour 110 black pvd R steel• SM8 50°/08° @ 52°/10° SM8 stock steel• Jaws Full Toe 56°/12° DG Spinner TI steel • c series DW 2.0 slant neck stock steel•Phantom 2 gps•Tour v3 rangefinder•Elixir golf ball• Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
richk9holes Posted March 21, 2023 Author Share Posted March 21, 2023 And a 6i rolling out 10 yards but an 8i rolling out 18" in the same 10 swing range session means it isn't the firmness of the imaginary fairway. Quote Finding a way to turn birdies into bogeys since 1992. #TeamChunks '23 Forum Tester: Elixir Golf Ball WITB:TS2 10.5° @ 11.25° Tensei blue AV 55 R graph•917f2 15° @ 16.5° Diamana blue x5ct dialed 70 R graph•Stealth 22° Ventus red 6 (non-velo) R graph• 699u 2i 17° tgi 70 R graph•24° Tour v 90 black pvd R steel•699 6i-PW Tour 110 black pvd R steel• SM8 50°/08° @ 52°/10° SM8 stock steel• Jaws Full Toe 56°/12° DG Spinner TI steel • c series DW 2.0 slant neck stock steel•Phantom 2 gps•Tour v3 rangefinder•Elixir golf ball• Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TylorJudd Posted March 21, 2023 Share Posted March 21, 2023 I think this thread is getting hijacked a bit here Quote I like golf. You should like golf. If life is tough, play more golf! Callaway Paradym Triple Diamond 10.5, Graphite Design Tour AD-MJ 6x Titleist TSr3 18 Degree, Graphite Design Tour Ad-DI 7x Takomo 301CB's, KBS Tours 120S Vokey SM8 48 10F, 52 08F, 56 08M, 60 08M Odyssey O-Works Jailbird Mini, Versa Scheme, 17" Fatso 3.0 Grip, 40" Jazz Tacoma Cart Bag Titleist Pro V1x Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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