Handicap and Distance

[Kenny B]

28 minutes ago, THEZIPR23 said:

I would agree that slope should factor into which tees you play to some degree but this formula leaves a lot to be desired. I play with a 12 handicap every week, based on this he would be playing the back tees at our club (6657). He carries his driver about 180 yards. From the back tees a lot of par 4's would be 3 shots to reach green and 2 of the par 3's are unreachable for him. I don't think anybody would advise him to play from that set of tees. 

That method has the same result for me.  It tells men that I should play from our courses tips which is has a slope of 132; evener Blue tees with a slope of 127 is a stretch for me.  I played from there until last year but moved up to White tees because I couldn't hit some par 4 and 5 holes in regulation. That formula must have something built in that has a relationship between slope, handicap and driving distance.  It certainly does not consider lower handicap short hitters.  

I wish that when methods like that are mentioned, they give the parameters for how they came up with it.  It does nothing but make players like me question my game.

[MGoBlue100]

8 minutes ago, fixyurdivot said:

Maybe I'm missing something here but this dosen't make sense to me either.  Using Cimarron as an example, slope from the white tees (6368 yards) and from which I play most often, is 123.  My current handicap from that tee is 9.  123-9=114 which suggests I should be playing gold/red.  My average driving distance is ~225 yards.  Perhaps the calculation is largely based on giving the player the best chance at shooting par?  Presuming all other parts of one's game is solid, maybe it would.  I might have to give it a trial... when the course is empty and no one is around .

As I stated earlier, I use average second or third shot (par 5's) distance as my gage.  If I can pretty consistently reach the green with well struck shots, using 6i an up, that makes me feel like I'm playing from the correct tees for my average hitting distances. Depending which groups/guys I play with, I sometimes will do the blue/white combo.  It does gain me 1 stroke but it makes one of the par 5's and one par 3 really tough to reach in regulation; particularly if the wind is up.

Begin with the number 142, then subtract your course handicap.  142 - 9 = 133.  This formula says you should be playing the Blue tees.  I am actually sorry at this point that I got involved with this thread.  

[Kenny B]

13 minutes ago, fixyurdivot said:

Maybe I'm missing something here but this dosen't make sense to me either.  Using Cimarron as an example, slope from the white tees (6368 yards) and from which I play most often, is 123.  My current handicap from that tee is 9.  123-9=114 which suggests I should be playing gold/red.  My average driving distance is ~225 yards.  Perhaps the calculation is largely based on giving the player the best chance at shooting par?  Presuming all other parts of one's game is solid, maybe it would.  I might have to give it a trial... when the course is empty and no one is around .

As I stated earlier, I use average second or third shot (par 5's) distance as my gage.  If I can pretty consistently reach the green with well struck shots, using 6i an up, that makes me feel like I'm playing from the correct tees for my average hitting distances. Depending which groups/guys I play with, I sometimes will do the blue/white combo.  It does gain me 1 stroke but it makes one of the par 5's and one par 3 really tough to reach in regulation; particularly if the wind is up.

Bill, I thought the calculation was to subtract your handicap (and I took that to mean your index, not handicap from a set of tees) from 142; That would mean you would play a set of tees with a slope of 132, so clearly you should play from the Blues.   Seems like you have the same issue I do, or maybe I am missing something.  

[chisag]

20 minutes ago, MGoBlue100 said:

Begin with the number 142, then subtract your course handicap.  142 - 9 = 133.  This formula says you should be playing the Blue tees.  I am actually sorry at this point that I got involved with this thread.  

 

... LOL, I get it but nobody is taking shots at you just the formula so you shouldn't be sorry.  I am glad you posted it because it sparked some posts and ideas and as you stated quite clearly "I didn't come up with the formula, just passing it along. Play from wherever you'd like." But it causes everyone to think about their game and how this may or may not apply, and thinking about your game/equipment/ability is always good! 

[fixyurdivot]

2 minutes ago, MGoBlue100 said:

Begin with the number 142, then subtract your course handicap.  142 - 9 = 133.  This formula says you should be playing the Blue tees.  I am actually sorry at this point that I got involved with this thread.  

Okay, that makes a bit more sense.  However, it must being using stats for average male golfers in the late 30's .  For me, most courses feel right at between 5800 and 6200 yards, and that is more often than not white tees. Thinking back to my younger days playing, I don't recall using blue tees even back then.  I've never been a really long hitter and would gues my average driving distance has never been north of 250 yards. But to be honest, I never kept track of such things back then. MGS had yet be be born... or Adam for that matter .

 

4 minutes ago, Kenny B said:

Bill, I thought the calculation was to subtract your handicap (and I took that to mean your index, not handicap from a set of tees) from 142; That would mean you would play a set of tees with a slope of 132, so clearly you should play from the Blues.   Seems like you have the same issue I do, or maybe I am missing something.  

We'll play it from the blues next time you guys visit and report back on our findings .

[THEZIPR23]

33 minutes ago, MGoBlue100 said:

Begin with the number 142, then subtract your course handicap.  142 - 9 = 133.  This formula says you should be playing the Blue tees.  I am actually sorry at this point that I got involved with this thread.  

I get it and was just pointing out that it doesn't work in some situations, for myself it would probably work just fine. Really if looking for the most fair set of tees to play it would be a combo of all the tees on the course. Using the same player as an example he could play a couple of par 4's from the back tees, 2 of the par 3's from the third set, some of the par 4's from the middle set and some of the others from the other set closer to the green. He would play all 4 sets of tees and it would balance it out so that no matter what distance he hit it based on a decent shot you would have a fair chance of a GIR, which in my opinion should really be the standard. Of course no courses are rated like this and most people would never play this way. 

[revkev]

38 minutes ago, MGoBlue100 said:

Begin with the number 142, then subtract your course handicap.  142 - 9 = 133.  This formula says you should be playing the Blue tees.  I am actually sorry at this point that I got involved with this thread.  

I don't think you should feel that way about it - you've suggested a formula that works well for you and for many others.  Any of these formulas are suggestions.  All players but particularly all players with handicaps above scratch have differing strengths and weaknesses that go into their handicap.  I play a lot of golf with a 23 because he's my friend.  He's about 10 years younger than me and in great shape.  He's at least a club longer than me with his irons and when he catches his driver a good 20 yards past me.  However, I'd be willing to bet that my average drive is longer than his.  You'd certainly rather have my 14 tee shots in a around over his because he's likely to have two or three that go OB or in a hazard.  I'm highly unlikely to have that many of those occurrences in the course of a month!

 

You need to use common sense with any of this stuff - I would simply suggest that for purpose of pace of play that when in doubt play up a set of tees.  

[chisag]

2 minutes ago, THEZIPR23 said:

I get it and was just pointing out that it doesn't work in some situations, for myself it would probably work just fine. Really if looking for the most fair set of tees to play it would be a combo of all the tees on the course. Using the same player as an example he could play a couple of par 4's from the back tees, 2 of the par 3's from the third set, some of the par 4's from the middle set and some of the others from the other set closer to the green. He would play all 4 sets of tees and it would balance it out so that no matter what distance he hit it based on a decent shot you would have a fair chance of a GIR, which in my opinion should really be the standard. Of course no courses are rated like this and most people would never play this way. 

 

... Good points and ability really enters into it a well. I play a combo at my summer course because a 477yd par is just too long for my game. I can certainly reach in two for a GIR but that takes a great drive and fairway wood so much more often than not I wouldn't be on the green. 443 is plenty long. My winter course has 4 really long and difficult par 4's and 3 of them play uphill. A really good drive leaves a mid iron and a par produces a feeling of doing well. But a mediocre drive into the upslope means you can't see the green and they turn into difficult holes. A good challenge for a low index player with command of his hybrids/long iron but not so much fun of rt higher index that hits more bad shots than good. The rest of the course is playable for the higher index from those tees, but moving up on those 4 holes would go a long way to better scores and more enjoyment. But I have rarely talked anyone into playing combo test unless they are listed on the scorecard.   I talked my 81yr old playing pard into combo tees but he had so much fun and more success playing the forward tees, he just plays from there now.  

[Kenny B]

2 hours ago, THEZIPR23 said:

I get it and was just pointing out that it doesn't work in some situations, for myself it would probably work just fine. Really if looking for the most fair set of tees to play it would be a combo of all the tees on the course. Using the same player as an example he could play a couple of par 4's from the back tees, 2 of the par 3's from the third set, some of the par 4's from the middle set and some of the others from the other set closer to the green. He would play all 4 sets of tees and it would balance it out so that no matter what distance he hit it based on a decent shot you would have a fair chance of a GIR, which in my opinion should really be the standard. Of course no courses are rated like this and most people would never play this way. 

That was my point I made earlier.  It may work for some, but it would be nice to know what the parameters are and what people it suits.  Maybe there are other formulas that would work for people with different driving distances and handicaps.  

My course has 5 par 5's and I can't reach any of them in two shots from the Forward tees.  If I play from the Back tees, that the formula suggested,  I will reach only one par 5 in 3 shots; there will be 5 par 4's I won't reach in 2 shots and one par 3 I won't reach with driver.

[PrismFlopper]

On 6/28/2023 at 5:11 PM, chisag said:

 

... There are always exceptions. I know plenty of high index players that can just bomb their drivers and usually have quick twitch muscles that often don't work so great with touch. They struggle with finesse shots and putting. Those of us that started playing with Persimmon woods and Balata balls that spun off the planet had to learn to control spin and hit the ball straight before trying to hit it long. With todays equipment it is much better to hit it long, then learn to hit it straight(er) so you are on the right track. Now you don't want to swing out of your shoes or with total reckless abandon, but the longer the better so aggressive is good. Accuracy will come in time with practice and dedication. You will get there. 

This makes a lot of sense to me. When I started and even to this day I always struggled with my driver. If I do get a straight one I’ve averaged around 290. But for a while I got so fed up with my driver I was discouraged and never took it of the bag and relayed on my 4iron(my longest iron, and not playing woods/ hybrids at the time) but it made me focus a lot on my iron game and specifically my short game. I only played par 3s for a bit to focus on the game from like 200 yds in. Now I’ve been working on my driver and finding that if I just take a smooth comfortable swing instead of trying to kill the ball( Have you trouble since being a hockey player makes me want to kill it) I can hit it like 260 and then play it from there.

[Hacker60521]

This is really interesting! According to the graph at my age and driver distance my index should be in the range of 0-5!

Untapped potential!