Is a putter fitting worth it?

[NNKboykin]

I understand the "need" for a iron and even a driver fitting. I had an iron fitting at Club Champion and it was very thorough and I was satisfied with the outcome.

I see that the offer putter fittings also. What goes into a putter fitting? How much benefit would one get from a putter fitting?

[cnosil]

47 minutes ago, NNKboykin said:

I understand the "need" for a iron and even a driver fitting. I had an iron fitting at Club Champion and it was very thorough and I was satisfied with the outcome.

I see that the offer putter fittings also. What goes into a putter fitting? How much benefit would one get from a putter fitting?

Fittings on systems like Capto, Puttlab, and Quintic evaluate how you move the club and how the ball performs off the club.  As you are aware putters are difference and the design differences lead to slightly different performance.  For example a heavier putter may slow down the rotation which will point the putter a little more right at impact and could help correct a left miss.   Just like with other clubs the data will help determine what putter and shaft will best benefit your stroke.  
 

most fitting will put a device on your putter to capture things like sim, path, face at impact, rotation rate, loft at impact, lie at impact, rhythm, etc.   you will hit some putts and the fitter evaluates your data.  Systems like Puttlab will give a recommendation on the type of putter, but I prefer a more knowledgeable fitter that actually understands the putting stroke and uses the data to,support what is being observed.  
 

benefit will be based on the persons opinion.  Some will say the putter doesn’t matter and it comes down to your personal skills.  some will say no improve and some will have big improvement.  I personally think there is benefit when you are looking to fine tune the putter to get the last bit of performance improvement.   Improvement will most likely be season based and not hole or round based.  

Edited September 11 by cnosil

[Louis_Posture]

11 hours ago, NNKboykin said:

I understand the "need" for a iron and even a driver fitting. I had an iron fitting at Club Champion and it was very thorough and I was satisfied with the outcome.

I see that the offer putter fittings also. What goes into a putter fitting? How much benefit would one get from a putter fitting?

Professional putter fittings don't seem to offer a true range of options, such as a 310 gram head weight with a 72** lie angle and 37" shaft or a 350 gram head weight with a 69* lie angle and a 33" shaft.

'Stroke type' is mostly dictated by the player's address technique, which is dictated by the length of the putter. So, to do a legitimate true fitting the fitter would need a sizeable inventory of shaft lengths, lie angles, and head weights.

 

[marfau23]

I went for a fitting after three consecutive rounds of 40+ putts and was told that I pretty much had the right putter for my stroke (I feel like your stroke adapts to your putter if you game it long enough) so the fitter helped me find a putter with the same characteristics (toe hang, lie, loft, length) in a different form factor which gave me something else to look at. Mainly, the fitting confirmed that I am in fact a headcase but now I can be a headcase that looks down at either a blade or a mid-mallet and can swap em as needed. 

[slash25rc]

I can see the justification of it for custom putters such as Lab, Edel, Ping PLD, etc. The various lie angles, weights, and balanced putters that fit one's stroke can help drop a couple more putts. I have personally never done one, but our local golf shop owner went our to Pings headquarters and did a custom fitting and said it was awesome (but he is also a Ping diehard). At this stage in my game, I either make the putts with what I have, or I don't. What I have is weighted fine and suits my eye. I think more importantly is to find a brand that fits these needs and if you're confident with it, the putts will drop. I personally could never get fitted for the DF3 because it does not suit my eye, but it works for so many! 

[PBH3]

I had my first putter fitting ever this spring at PXG and was very happy with the result.  My putting is more consistent and I have more confidence with the putter

[Stuka44]

21 hours ago, NNKboykin said:

I see that the offer putter fittings also.

I asked the identical question about 2-3 years ago I think.  Ultimately I was not convinced that a Putter Fitting was necessary.  My initial difficulty stemmed from, it almost always seems to involve expensive putters.   Why aren't there many(or any) putter fitters, who have an assortment of $75-$200 putters, of varying weights, lie, angles, and all of this, that can be "grooved" to fit my putting stroke, if I am willing to pay $100 for the fitting, and get out of the fitting for $300 total.  Instead of not being charged for the fitting if I buy a $400- $600 putter.

Many will say that they are a better putter, after the fitting.  Many will also not have any statistics on make percentages to justify this feeling they get, post fitting,  that they are, "making a better stroke on the ball", is actually leading them to making more putts.

I begged off the putter fitting.  Having kept first putt distance statistics, which tells me 1, 2, and 3 putt percentages at distances up to 50+ feet.  I know factually that I am making more putts at every distance especially under 10 feet now,  than I was 2.5 years ago when I started keeping stats.  That is using the same old 2011 version       Ping Scottsdale Wolverine 529g(I think), mallet putter I bought on sale in 2013 off the rack at Dicks Sporting goods for @ $85.  This has been accomplished by starting 2.5 years ago,  repeating my putting stroke 120-160 times a week, (mostly in winter), on putts 11' and less, in my basement. Practice is my go to.

When Club Champion or somebody, promotes that they have done an extended statistical study, of "fittees" ,  playing for 5 years, and keeping stats, alternating between old putter, and new putter, and practicing the same amount with each, and this shows repeatedly that there is a STATISTICAL difference in make percentage, 2 putts, and 3 putts with the new putter over an old one, then perhaps I will look into it.   Just my take.

[cnosil]

1 hour ago, Stuka44 said:

That is using the same old 2011 version       Ping Scottsdale Wolverine 529g(I think), mallet putter I bought on sale in 2013 off the rack at Dicks Sporting goods for @ $85. 

You opinion is that the putter doesn’t matter; why didn’t you get a cheaper putter?  
 

have you ever had your stroke evaluated with different putters?  
 

Why couldn’t your 2 1/2 year evolution been done in 6 months with a different putter?  
 

I do support your position that you can buy any putter and learn how to putt with it, but from personal experience I know that putters do perform differently.  

Edited Thursday at 05:32 PM by cnosil

[Quigleyd]

I dunno. I have never done one. I will tomorrow though. I will let you know my thoughts. Although it is for a specific putter.

[Stuka44]

3 hours ago, cnosil said:

You opinion is that the putter doesn’t matter;

 

maximize your performance.

making changes to your putter setup and swing to improve performance.

Putts account for 40% of your strokes on average — don't leave nearly half of your game to chance.

Fit the design of the putter to your ability, and you'll have the best chance to improve your putting statistics, including putts made, two-putts and total number of putts. 

The above are the catch lines from Bettinardi, Golf Galaxy, Club Champion, and the Even Roll websites regarding putter fittings.   They all talk about performance, and chance.   The suggestion is certainly there for the golfer, of any level to infer that this proper fit,  club will allow him to MAKE MORE PUTTS.

If there was a causative relationship, then each and every one of these tag lines  would say you will make more putts.  They don't say that because the relationship doesn't exist.  It's there IMO to lure people in who are looking for an easy way out.  Funny they don't mention that once the average golfer gets beyond 12' his make percentage is about 14 percent, and goes down precipitously to 20, and is not existent beyond 20 feet.

Absent any empirical data, putter fittings mean very little, unless as a golfer, you need someone to tell you this "MIGHT" improve your PERFORMANCE.   

[chisag]

... Not an easy answer for this question. Personally I think everyone should have a putter fitting at least once as it will answer many questions you may or may not have. If not for anything else, knowing you are on the right track with our stroke and your putter provides peace of mind on those days when you putt poorly.

... I had a fitting with Kevin Weeks at his Cog Hill fitting center and he works with many on Tour. After rolling about 10 putts the first thing he addressed was he wanted me to roll the ball so if I missed, it went 18" past the hole. So I hit about 25 putts and he stopped me and gave me this advice. To take out the break around the hole, offset the volcano effect of people stepping right next to the hole to retrieve their ball and any anomalies on typical public greens that will effect a slower rolling putt, 18" past the cup gives you the best chance of holing putts. But, my brain is wired for spacial distancing to a target and not past the target so I putted much better dying the ball in the hole than rolling it with enough speed to go past 18". He said yes, I will miss some putts due to the greens but I will also hole more putts that drop in the side with dying speed so it should come out even. He had a few Pro's that were die putters and he advised them not to change their speed either.

... That gave me the confidence early in my golfing life to trust my instincts. The second thing he did was match my stroke with my putter and had me hit several other models with slight to heavy toe hang. Fortunately for me I was already using an 8802 with toe hang and he recommend I keep playing it because my stroke was natural and repeatable. Like 18" past the hole Kevin prefers a stroke that doesn't stray from the line as much as my arc stroke does but again he has worked with many great arc stroke putters and if that is their natural tendency he doesn't change them. 

... I have had a few free putter fitting since then and none provided me with any new information so paying for them would have been a waste of money. And even though Kevin didn't change my stroke or my putter, knowing I was on the right track was well worth the money. He did say it was very rare to run across an Am and not change anything in a fitting, even down to my 33.25" because my arms hung naturally. So chances are there will be something in a fitting that is a change from what you are currently using/doing and I do think it would be worth it at least once. 

[RetiredBoomer]

I seem to putt exactly the same with every type of putter.

I very much prefer shaft-aligned or onset putters to offset ones.
I don't understand how the Anser exploded as it did.
Also, as with offset, I'm not crazy for too much toe hang, either.

I like face balanced and I liked lie angle balance when I tried it.

But then I just have to work a little harder if I don't like the design and feel of the putter.
I basically putt the same with everything, though.

 

 

[cnosil]

3 hours ago, Stuka44 said:

 

maximize your performance.

making changes to your putter setup and swing to improve performance.

Putts account for 40% of your strokes on average — don't leave nearly half of your game to chance.

Fit the design of the putter to your ability, and you'll have the best chance to improve your putting statistics, including putts made, two-putts and total number of putts. 

The above are the catch lines from Bettinardi, Golf Galaxy, Club Champion, and the Even Roll websites regarding putter fittings.   They all talk about performance, and chance.   The suggestion is certainly there for the golfer, of any level to infer that this proper fit,  club will allow him to MAKE MORE PUTTS.

If there was a causative relationship, then each and every one of these tag lines  would say you will make more putts.  They don't say that because the relationship doesn't exist.  It's there IMO to lure people in who are looking for an easy way out.  Funny they don't mention that once the average golfer gets beyond 12' his make percentage is about 14 percent, and goes down precipitously to 20, and is not existent beyond 20 feet.

Absent any empirical data, putter fittings mean very little, unless as a golfer, you need someone to tell you this "MIGHT" improve your PERFORMANCE.   

You just repeated what I said,  you opinion is the putter doesn't matter.  I am fine with that opinion because I believe that any player can build the necessary skills to make any putter work.   You never answered so I will ask again, why do you play the putter you do instead of a $2 thrift store putter?  Based on your perspective, you should be able to pick up any putter and it should perform exactly the same.  

They can't guarantee you will make more putts because there are things outside the control of the golfer and the putter that influence the results.   

For empirical data,  have you compared putters side by side using technology like puttlab, quintic, capto, etc.?  I have and they will show you definitively that putters perform differently.  I have 3 puttlab reports done back to back to show how the putter can influence the stroke.  I have been presented information from a putting instructor that shows the same with a PGA professional.   Converting that data into performance,  if your face at impact variability ranged between 1 degree open and 1 degree close and another putter reduced that variability to .75 in each direction do you think you would make more putts?  Again,  you can learn the skills to do this but is it easier to change what you do or  do the same thing you have been doing?  What value does simply knowing that the performance is better do for a players confidence?  

 

 

Edited Thursday at 11:52 PM by cnosil

[chisag]

2 minutes ago, cnosil said:

You just repeated what I said,  you opinion is the putter doesn't matter.  I am fine with that opinion because I believe that any player can build the necessary skills to make any putter work.

 

... I do think putters are like any golf equipment. I can learn to play a Ventus Black X Flex shaft in my driver but my results won't be as good as shaft that fits my swing. I can putt pretty decently with the front edge of my 58* wedge or a center shafted face balanced putter ... but why would I when a heel shafted toe hang putter allows me to putt with no manipulation?  

... It gets back to the basics of golf equipment. Fit clubs to your swing, don't fit your swing to clubs. 

[cnosil]

Just now, chisag said:

 

... I do think putters are like any golf equipment. I can learn to play a Ventus Black X Flex shaft in my driver but my results won't be as good as shaft that fits my swing. I can putt pretty decently with the front edge of my 58* wedge or a center shafted face balanced putter ... but why would I when a heel shafted toe hang putter allows me to putt with no manipulation?  

... It gets back to the basics of golf equipment. Fit clubs to your swing, don't fit your swing to clubs. 

You and I are on the same page.  But, a player can learn to use a piece of equipment that doesn't naturally work for them.   An even with a properly fitted tool you still have to maintain the skill levels.  

[chisag]

7 minutes ago, cnosil said:

But, a player can learn to use a piece of equipment that doesn't naturally work for them.  

 

... Sure they can (at least to some degree) but the question is why would or should they? 

[Donn lost in San Diego]

I've had a few things to say about putting in various threads.  Fitting is good idea.  Cross handed putting is great (at least for me).  Face balanced.

I tried the new PXG Allan today.  At the PXG store in San Diego.  Love it.  It is a zero torque.  PXG answer to L.A.B. concept.  180 degree Heel hang.  Wha?  Dunno how.  On the finger, the face looks at me straight up and down.  I have not been on the course for other reasons, can't talk about real world putts per round.  Been doing a lot of short game practice tho.  Have an Odyssey "R" Ball on the Stroke Lab multi material shaft.  Big believer in this type of shaft.  Been shopping in my local stores.  Am lucky, live near Torrey Pines and all the equipment companies in Carlsbad.  Have five yes 5 Golfmart stores nearby with tons of inventory.  Two Dick's Sporting Goods.  A Club Champion.  I have probably hit 50 or more putters recently trying to see if I find one better than my current putter.  Was planning on doing a fitting with Edel, Sacks Parente, maybe L.A.B., and a few other brands.  Hit some balls with a glass mallet made by Ray Mathews. That is worth your attention.  Feel unlike any other.  A solid transfer of energy thru a large mass of uniform material, a feel unlike every medium or thin piece of steel.  Totally different feel than every other putter.   

AND:  Found my new putter today, the Allan.  I will buy one in a few weeks (have an eye laser procedure coming up first.)  Very good experience with the guys at the PXG store.  They can let you try about 8 grips, different length shafts.  I did not try Allan with their M-16 multi material shaft.  I am on the fence for adding the $80.  Will let you all know after eye doctor appointment.  Club Ho.    

[cnosil]

12 hours ago, chisag said:

 

... Sure they can (at least to some degree) but the question is why would or should they? 

I think the general answer to this is:

why should you: it will help you find a putter that works with your “natural” stroke dynamics and gives you the best change to start the putt on your intended start line after properly aiming the putter face down that line.    

why shouldn’t you: because the putter doesn’t matter and you need to just work on your skills.  
 

unfortunately, to @Stuka44points,   You probably won’t see obvious hole to hole or round to round improvements.  The improvements are small and even with these improvements you still have to read the putt and deal with the irregularities of the surface.  You can also overcome the putter through practice which may require a change to the stroke.  
 

you probably know I am a huge advocate for some level fitting. I see how differently clubs can perform when doing most wanted testing.   It doesn’t have to be a $300 fitting but there should be some level of evaluation to evaluate the club.   I worked with a putting coach for many years that taught me a lot about the putting stroke, how to assess the stroke, and why the putter matters….which included a significant amount of data to support what he was teaching.  
 

at the end of the day the question about fitting any club is asked over and over and like music on the course the opinions typically fall on the extremes.  I am kind of thinking that if you are asking the question you are leaning toward the it doesn’t matter side.  

[chisag]

16 hours ago, cnosil said:

But, a player can learn to use a piece of equipment that doesn't naturally work for them. 

 

2 hours ago, cnosil said:

 it will help you find a putter that works with your “natural” stroke dynamics and gives you the best change to start the putt on your intended start line after properly aiming the putter face down that line.

 

... I hate to interrupt an argument you are having with yourself but these sure seem to be conflicting statements. I disagreed with the former and completely agree with the latter. 

[funkyjudge]

3 hours ago, cnosil said:

I think the general answer to this is:

why should you: it will help you find a putter that works with your “natural” stroke dynamics and gives you the best change to start the putt on your intended start line after properly aiming the putter face down that line.    

why shouldn’t you: because the putter doesn’t matter and you need to just work on your skills.  
 

unfortunately, to @Stuka44points,   You probably won’t see obvious hole to hole or round to round improvements.  The improvements are small and even with these improvements you still have to read the putt and deal with the irregularities of the surface.  You can also overcome the putter through practice which may require a change to the stroke.  
 

you probably know I am a huge advocate for some level fitting. I see how differently clubs can perform when doing most wanted testing.   It doesn’t have to be a $300 fitting but there should be some level of evaluation to evaluate the club.   I worked with a putting coach for many years that taught me a lot about the putting stroke, how to assess the stroke, and why the putter matters….which included a significant amount of data to support what he was teaching.  
 

at the end of the day the question about fitting any club is asked over and over and like music on the course the opinions typically fall on the extremes.  I am kind of thinking that if you are asking the question you are leaning toward the it doesn’t matter side.  

I won’t say that it doesn’t matter, but I will say that different “putting experts” have vastly different takes on what the correct putter length and lie angle, not to mention the “correct”putting stroke, should be.

I had a professional putter fitting in 2004 and I was fitted into a 34.5” long putter with a 71* lie angle. I still have that putter, but haven’t used it in at least 7 or 8 years.  About 18 months ago, I had an extensive putter fitting at Makefield Putters where they have the exact same computer-aided putter fitting setup as you will certainly have seen if you have ever watched any of the putter fitting videos from Ian Fraser of TXG/Club Champion in Canada. That fitting showed that I needed a putter shorter than 34” long and with a lie angle of 67*, which is obviously significantly flatter than the 71* lie angle of my other putter from the 2004 fitting (both, however, are face-balanced mallet putters).

It is inconceivable to me that my putting stroke has changed that much in the 18 to 19 years between these two putter fittings, and to be honest the 67* lie angle on my Makefield Putter has never seemed to be a good fit for me, as it seems that my eyes are too far inside the ball at address and this severely hampers my alignment. Even when I am using one of my Evnroll putters, all of which have lie angles of 70*, it sometimes seems that the lie angle is just a little too flat, so you can imagine how flat a 67* lie on a 33.5”long putter appears to me.

[Stuka44]

16 hours ago, cnosil said:

You just repeated what I said,  you opinion is the putter doesn't matter.

 

3 hours ago, cnosil said:

unfortunately, to @Stuka44points,   You probably won’t see obvious hole to hole or round to round improvements.  The improvements are small and even with these improvements you still have to read the putt and deal with the irregularities of the surface.  You can also overcome the putter through practice which may require a change to the stroke.  

Not being one to avoid a question here it goes.  I have never said the putter doesn't matter.  I questioned, and continue to question is a $500 dollar putter that comes with a fitting going to allow any golfer to make more putts, because he is now holding a more expensive piece of metal in his hand. 

I purchased the one I bought, because I WANTED a new one(the same reason I purchased my Mavriks in 2020), and this was the one out of all that they had that FELT GOOD TO ME, and that is how much I WANTED TO SPEND.  Anyone who simply WANTS a putter fitting, and a new custom fit putter, I say more power to them.  

When people begin to ask about "benefit", I believe someone promoting "benefit", needs to meticulously define this, as I have pointed out I feel the fitters don't do very well.  I believe your statement as quoted in second part, is spot on.

I agree in large part with what you are saying.  For some people the intangible, and confidence boost, will justify any cost to them, and this is ok.

I will close with this thought.  I have seen many indicate that they have gone to a fitting, and been asked what they wanted.  This seems to me to be something that would NEVER be asked.  If the technology of the  fitting is showing you what is BEST  for your putting stroke, and improvement, and to "not leave your putting to chance", to not go with the fitting to the letter, would seem terribly counter-intuitive.   

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[chisag]

9 minutes ago, Stuka44 said:

I have never said the putter doesn't matter.  I questioned, and continue to question is a $500 dollar putter that comes with a fitting going to allow any golfer to make more putts, because he is now holding a more expensive piece of metal in his hand. 

 

... I could easily make the argument that a 2023 Cobra SIK faced putter ($149) produces a better roll than a similar Scotty Cameron or Bettinardi putter that cost 2 to 3 times as much. And before cnosil reminds me you need a repeatable stroke and some skill (which of course you do) putting is as much about confidence as it is technical. Even though the Cobra may produce a better roll, if you have confidence using an expensive Cameron/Bettinardi the chances are very good you will putt better with them. I have used and played expensive putters including Cameron, Bettinardi and Piretti and while they looked great and had a nice feel I didn't putt any better than using a Cobra Sport 60.

... Putting on pristine tour greens and most Private CC's I don't think roll face technology makes a big difference or everyone on tour where they have to make putts for a living would be using them. But I do think slower and bumpier muni greens benefit from roll face technology. 
 

[Donn lost in San Diego]

If you live near a PXG store, go try their new Allan, their new "zero-torque".  No formal fitting needed.  It is worth trying it.  But I repeat myself.  Their store here in San Diego has different shafts and grips that clip on and off.  Just walk right in and hit some putts.  I am going to get one as soon as my upcoming eye laser fix happens.

[cnosil]

1 hour ago, chisag said:

.. I hate to interrupt an argument you are having with yourself but these sure seem to be conflicting statements. I disagreed with the former and completely agree with the latter. 

Probably not being clear. My intention was to communicate that you have 2 choices:

1.  Fit yourself to the putter.   Pick what you like and figure out how to make it work. 
2. get a fitting to find a putter that works with your natural tendencies.   

[cnosil]

1 hour ago, funkyjudge said:

I won’t say that it doesn’t matter, but I will say that different “putting experts” have vastly different takes on what the correct putter length and lie angle, not to mention the “correct”putting stroke, should be.

It does largely depend on the fitter, just like with full swing clubs.   My opinion is that it is hard to find someone good at fitting putters.   I think they mostly rely on what the system says instead of using the day to support the answer.  This results in vastly different results like you experienced.   

[cnosil]

1 hour ago, Stuka44 said:

 I questioned, and continue to question is a $500 dollar putter that comes with a fitting going to allow any golfer to make more putts, because he is now holding a more expensive piece of metal in his hand. 

 

Sorry, I interpreted your statements as the putter doesn’t matter.   I completely agree with you that the price of the putter doesn’t make you putt better. 

[chisag]

4 minutes ago, cnosil said:

Probably not being clear. My intention was to communicate that you have 2 choices:

1.  Fit yourself to the putter.   Pick what you like and figure out how to make it work. 
2. get a fitting to find a putter that works with your natural tendencies.   

 

... Ok thanks. I still completely disagree with option #1. To me that's like saying I love the way these shoes look but I wear a size 9 and these are size 13. You can walk in the 13's, but you will make it much more difficult than shoes that are the correct size. I am not saying everyone absolutely needs a putter fitting at least once (but again always a good idea) but I do think you need to be in a putter that fits your stroke for length and style. 

... I am a big believer in just letting your arms hang naturally and that will dictate your putter length. Mine is 33.25" and attempting to use a 35" putter without choking down would mean I have to make unnatural adjustments. Considering the majority of off the rack putters are 35" and the next closest is 34" many are trying to use a putter that its too long. And of course depending on whether you use a gate stroke or more of a SBST stroke, attempting to use the wrong kind of putter for your style of putting will make it more difficult. Sure, I can putt with anything and make it work, but it is much more difficult and over time I will hole more putts with a putter that fits my stroke. 

 

[cnosil]

5 minutes ago, chisag said:

 

... Ok thanks. I still completely disagree with option #1. 

 

We both do but it is what a lot of golfers do.  

[KC Golf]

1 hour ago, chisag said:

... Putting on pristine tour greens and most Private CC's I don't think roll face technology makes a big difference or everyone on tour where they have to make putts for a living would be using them. But I do think slower and bumpier muni greens benefit from roll face technology. 
 

I hadn’t thought much about this point. It makes total sense that this the case since most Pros don’t use it even if they are free agents.

But you are likely right about the Evnroll being made for lesser greens.  The face technology may also be helpful for those who play course that require long putts from off the green here fairway conditions can be more marginal with steep contouring.  Most tour players chip from these off green lies whereas most non scratch players are better off putting statistically.