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Irons being delofted to add distance - Why aren't standard wedge offerings following suit?


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So, after looking at a number of iron sets, and seeing the PW in the last 3 years or so work it's way down to a 45*, why haven't the big name wedge companies like Cleveland, Vokey, etc started stocking stores with 50 degree Gap wedges and 55 degree sandwedges to keep the distance gap in line?

 

For instance, if I wanted a 55 degree Vokey, I'd most surely have to order it, even if I walked into a big name golf shop. Back when PW's were 48, it was (and still is) much easier to find a 52, 56 and 60. (that say a 50, 55, and 60)

 

I know a lot of boutique wedge companies make them (hell, almost every wedge company makes them. However, if I modern set of irons with less loft, which seems to the be the newest trend, why would I want a 52 and 56 or 58 wedge?

 

I'm the type of guy who establishes extremely detailed distances on my scoring irons and makes every effort to avoid hitting "less" of a club. I prefer to hit just about every shot a full as possible and know how far the ball will travel. I.e - If I'm 75 yards from the pin, alot of guys would pull a low wedge or PW and hit a nice smooth pitch shot which could check and run. I would pull my 60 and take a full swing and get that 75-80 with almost no accidentally shorting it or having it run off the back of the green.

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Because wedges are all about distance gaps. If you want a stronger loft, get it. Just get the wedges that fit the gaps. If you need a 52* to be your sand wedge, do it. Just 1 degree of loft doesn't do much, plus most companies aren't changing lofts buy 1 degree, it's more like 2 or 3. You need to stop thinking of wedges in degree, and more in yardage, IMO. Another thing, you can always get wedges bent a degree or 2 if you need it.

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I've moved to a 50* gap wedge a couple seasons ago.

 

You gotta realize, if they bump the lofts enough it gives them a chance to sell an extra club to fill that gap. IMHO, that and the appearance of someone gaining extra distance are the two reasons they've moved that way.

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Are we talking GI irons because most of the irons i play still have a PW @ 47/48. maybe I just haven't been checking all the other irons out but most blades are still normal lofts. NO? My Cally Proto's PW =48 my TM TP B heads PW=48

I just did a quick look around and I didn't find one players iron below 47 for PW. Now if you were playing 48 your whole life and now 45 then yes that's a big difference. But we must be talking Game improvement irons being made that way so players thing there hitting the ball as far as a pro hits his wedge,that or maybe because now with so many hybrid sets like half the irons are woods and such. so my question is which set are you playing where the PW is 45*?

 

Tim

The Bag:

Right handed

Cobra King FLYZ+ 10.5* w/ Aldila Rogue 125 R 44.5"

Tour Issued TM M2 10.5 w/ Mitsubishi Tensi CK Pro Blue 60S

Tour Issued TM M2 15* w/ GD Tour AD 7S 43"

TM R7 17.5 HFS w/ Tour AD 7S Stiff 42"

Cobra S3 Pro's 4-pw w/ Aldila RIP Tours SLT 115 Reg. 5i 38.5"

Titleist Vokey Proto's

52*,54*,58* all TTDG S-400

TM TP5 X

Scotty Cameron SSS Tiffany 009 350 34.5" or Bettinardi BB1 DASS Proto

GHIN # 5144472

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Are we talking GI irons because most of the irons i play still have a PW @ 47/48. maybe I just haven't been checking all the other irons out but most blades are still normal lofts. NO? My Cally Proto's PW =48 my TM TP B heads PW=48

I just did a quick look around and I didn't find one players iron below 47 for PW. Now if you were playing 48 your whole life and now 45 then yes that's a big difference. But we must be talking Game improvement irons being made that way so players thing there hitting the ball as far as a pro hits his wedge,that or maybe because now with so many hybrid sets like half the irons are woods and such. so my question is which set are you playing where the PW is 45*?

 

Tim

 

 

My Callaway X-Forged irons (not exactly GI irons) have a 47* PW. If you use the normal gap of 4* between irons, then you would need a 51* GW. With what's made, that either puts you into a slightly weaker 52*, or a slightly stronger 50*. I chose to go with a 50*, because you can always grip down and take a bit off, as opposed to having to grip down too much on my PW or hit a 52 just a bit harder.

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Are we talking GI irons because most of the irons i play still have a PW @ 47/48. maybe I just haven't been checking all the other irons out but most blades are still normal lofts. NO? My Cally Proto's PW =48 my TM TP B heads PW=48

I just did a quick look around and I didn't find one players iron below 47 for PW. Now if you were playing 48 your whole life and now 45 then yes that's a big difference. But we must be talking Game improvement irons being made that way so players thing there hitting the ball as far as a pro hits his wedge,that or maybe because now with so many hybrid sets like half the irons are woods and such. so my question is which set are you playing where the PW is 45*?

 

Tim

 

Cobras, Taylor Mades, Nikes? Not a huge list, but some popular clubs.

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My Callaway X-Forged irons (not exactly GI irons) have a 47* PW. If you use the normal gap of 4* between irons, then you would need a 51* GW. With what's made, that either puts you into a slightly weaker 52*, or a slightly stronger 50*. I chose to go with a 50*, because you can always grip down and take a bit off, as opposed to having to grip down too much on my PW or hit a 52 just a bit harder.

 

Or you could just have them bent to the right loft to fill the gap.

Callaway FT-9 Driver 10.5* Grafalloy Prolaunch Axis Blue

Callaway FT-9 Driver 9.0* Grafalloy Prolaunch Platinum

Cobra Baffler Rail F Fairway 15.5* Fujikura Motore

Wilson FYbrid 19* UST Proforce AXIV Core

Cobra Baffler Rail H Hybrid 22* Fujikura Motore

Ping I15 Irons 5-UW AWT

Ping Tour-W 56*,60* DG Spinner

Ping Redwood ZB Putter, WRX Starshot, 35"

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Cobras, Taylor Mades, Nikes? Not a huge list, but some popular clubs.

 

Ping also with the Raptures.

Callaway FT-9 Driver 10.5* Grafalloy Prolaunch Axis Blue

Callaway FT-9 Driver 9.0* Grafalloy Prolaunch Platinum

Cobra Baffler Rail F Fairway 15.5* Fujikura Motore

Wilson FYbrid 19* UST Proforce AXIV Core

Cobra Baffler Rail H Hybrid 22* Fujikura Motore

Ping I15 Irons 5-UW AWT

Ping Tour-W 56*,60* DG Spinner

Ping Redwood ZB Putter, WRX Starshot, 35"

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Covered that in post 2.....

 

You sure did. I missed that - nice job.

Callaway FT-9 Driver 10.5* Grafalloy Prolaunch Axis Blue

Callaway FT-9 Driver 9.0* Grafalloy Prolaunch Platinum

Cobra Baffler Rail F Fairway 15.5* Fujikura Motore

Wilson FYbrid 19* UST Proforce AXIV Core

Cobra Baffler Rail H Hybrid 22* Fujikura Motore

Ping I15 Irons 5-UW AWT

Ping Tour-W 56*,60* DG Spinner

Ping Redwood ZB Putter, WRX Starshot, 35"

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My Callaway X-Forged irons (not exactly GI irons) have a 47* PW. If you use the normal gap of 4* between irons, then you would need a 51* GW. With what's made, that either puts you into a slightly weaker 52*, or a slightly stronger 50*. I chose to go with a 50*, because you can always grip down and take a bit off, as opposed to having to grip down too much on my PW or hit a 52 just a bit harder.

 

 

Not 45* PW like stated above, that's what I'm questioning. What sets have standard PW @ 45? 48 is the norm or was for a long time 1* is one thing but 4* is another club. If you can't adjust for 1* then well I don't know you must be one precise golfer knocking down those flag sticks!! :lol:

The Bag:

Right handed

Cobra King FLYZ+ 10.5* w/ Aldila Rogue 125 R 44.5"

Tour Issued TM M2 10.5 w/ Mitsubishi Tensi CK Pro Blue 60S

Tour Issued TM M2 15* w/ GD Tour AD 7S 43"

TM R7 17.5 HFS w/ Tour AD 7S Stiff 42"

Cobra S3 Pro's 4-pw w/ Aldila RIP Tours SLT 115 Reg. 5i 38.5"

Titleist Vokey Proto's

52*,54*,58* all TTDG S-400

TM TP5 X

Scotty Cameron SSS Tiffany 009 350 34.5" or Bettinardi BB1 DASS Proto

GHIN # 5144472

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Not 45* PW like stated above, that's what I'm questioning. What sets have standard PW @ 45? 48 is the norm or was for a long time 1* is one thing but 4* is another club. If you can't adjust for 1* then well I don't know you must be one precise golfer knocking down those flag sticks!! :lol:

 

Taylor Made Burner, Nike Machspeed, Ping Rapture V2, Mizuno MX 1000 (44*), Cobra S2 Max (43*), Titleist AP1, Adams Idea A7OS Max (44*), Callaway FT i-brid (44*). And that isn't listing companies with repeat PW's with 45* lofts.

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Taylor Made Burner, Nike Machspeed, Ping Rapture V2, Mizuno MX 1000 (44*), Cobra S2 Max (43*), Titleist AP1, Adams Idea A7OS Max (44*), Callaway FT i-brid (44*). And that isn't listing companies with repeat PW's with 45* lofts.

 

So you proved my point the only irons that have 45 or less loft for PW are made for high handicappers or what we call GI irons! Not players irons. In other words to make people feel like there hitting the ball as far or similar to the PROS! JMO

 

It's that ego thing where you can say I hit a PW from 140 when in fact your hitting a 8 iron real loft! That's what they are appealing too... the OEM's. Trying to make the average weekend golfer feel like their playing a game similar to the pro's. little do many of them realize that their 43* or 45* pw is really 8 or 9 iron.

The Bag:

Right handed

Cobra King FLYZ+ 10.5* w/ Aldila Rogue 125 R 44.5"

Tour Issued TM M2 10.5 w/ Mitsubishi Tensi CK Pro Blue 60S

Tour Issued TM M2 15* w/ GD Tour AD 7S 43"

TM R7 17.5 HFS w/ Tour AD 7S Stiff 42"

Cobra S3 Pro's 4-pw w/ Aldila RIP Tours SLT 115 Reg. 5i 38.5"

Titleist Vokey Proto's

52*,54*,58* all TTDG S-400

TM TP5 X

Scotty Cameron SSS Tiffany 009 350 34.5" or Bettinardi BB1 DASS Proto

GHIN # 5144472

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@TWShoot67

 

I think you're kind of missing the point of my question. I believe at least 2 different people here have provided you numerous examples of companies who are doing this. That's not to say I care in the least why they're delofting clubs. My question was why they're delofting their iron sets and not offering standard "strong" gap and sand wedges.

 

Seriously dude, it doesn't matter if they're doing this to blades or super game improvement Big Berthas. If you could get past the fact that this is only being done for game improvement irons, you might actually realize that game improvement or cavity back irons make up a very large percentage of irons sold, probably more than 3 to 1 to a set of blades. And that this question applies to people playing GI irons.

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Because wedges are all about distance gaps. If you want a stronger loft, get it. Just get the wedges that fit the gaps. If you need a 52* to be your sand wedge, do it. Just 1 degree of loft doesn't do much, plus most companies aren't changing lofts buy 1 degree, it's more like 2 or 3. You need to stop thinking of wedges in degree, and more in yardage, IMO. Another thing, you can always get wedges bent a degree or 2 if you need it.

I agree. I look at all of my clubs as distance and really pay no attention to the number or loft. The most important thing is knowing how far you hit each and then fill the gaps in the shorter clubs or wedges to be even more accurate.

Driver: Titleist 915 D3 11.5* 42.50"
3 Wood: Titleist 915 F 15*  40.25"
5 Wood: Titleist 915 F 18* 39.50"
7 Wood: Titleist 915 F 21* 39.25"
Hybrids: Titleist 913 H 24* 38.50" & 27* 37.50" 
Irons: Titleist DCI 990 6 thru 9 -0.5"
Wedges: Titleist DCI 990 49* and Vokey SM 52.08 & 56.14 -0.5"
Ball: Titleist 2015 Pro V1x
Putter: Titleist Scotty Cameron 2014 Select Newport w/SS 3.0 34.00"
 

"Golf doesn't build character; it reveals it."

 

 

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@TWShoot67

 

I think you're kind of missing the point of my question. I believe at least 2 different people here have provided you numerous examples of companies who are doing this. That's not to say I care in the least why they're delofting clubs. My question was why they're delofting their iron sets and not offering standard "strong" gap and sand wedges.

 

Seriously dude, it doesn't matter if they're doing this to blades or super game improvement Big Berthas. If you could get past the fact that this is only being done for game improvement irons, you might actually realize that game improvement or cavity back irons make up a very large percentage of irons sold, probably more than 3 to 1 to a set of blades. And that this question applies to people playing GI irons.

 

So then what is the purpose of this I ask? Is it to add more wedges for possible sales? I just don't know why it's such a big deal anyway. Well seriously dude there NOT doing this to players irons that includes players cb's and blades. I only mentioned GI because that's happens to be the irons there doing this too, which is probably the larger SOLD irons! I didn't know we were getting into a discussion about which irons sell the most. Maybe i didn't make my opinion correctly. Now as far as sales go I could care less. All I was trying to say is that they (OEM's) are playing off what everyone does at the course when your playing with your fore some. Instead of having your own game and your own yardages, people are always worried about how far their buddy hits the ball. (it's the male ego) People should learn that it doesn't matter what # is on the bottom. People should just play what works for them. Basically I never noticed my irons lofts changing more the a 1*. If it bother's someone what # or letter is on the bottom they cam do what Ryan Moore has done with Scrath, just have degree's on 13 clubs and a P for putter.

 

And to answer your question about how come there's no 50* gap wedges well there are and many more in the last 3 years. LOL

The Bag:

Right handed

Cobra King FLYZ+ 10.5* w/ Aldila Rogue 125 R 44.5"

Tour Issued TM M2 10.5 w/ Mitsubishi Tensi CK Pro Blue 60S

Tour Issued TM M2 15* w/ GD Tour AD 7S 43"

TM R7 17.5 HFS w/ Tour AD 7S Stiff 42"

Cobra S3 Pro's 4-pw w/ Aldila RIP Tours SLT 115 Reg. 5i 38.5"

Titleist Vokey Proto's

52*,54*,58* all TTDG S-400

TM TP5 X

Scotty Cameron SSS Tiffany 009 350 34.5" or Bettinardi BB1 DASS Proto

GHIN # 5144472

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From what I have been told by many company reps and higher ups, the strengthening of club lofts has been the result of two driving forces. The first is that players are always looking for clubs that will let them hit the ball further, strengthening lofts is a quick and easy way to make them think that they are doing that. I find this reasoning a bit more believable than the second answer that I have gotten. The modern game improvement irons are designed to launch the ball higher and enable the player to get the ball off of the ground. If they maintain the more traditional lofts, the ball will go too high and lose most of it's energy climbing higher rather than traveling further.

Ping G410 Plus Oban Kiyoshi Tour Limited
Ping G410 LST 3 Wood Oban Tour Prototype V430
Titleist U500 3 & 4 Oban Kiyoshi Purple Tour Reserve
Titleist 620 MB 5-9 Oban CT 125
Titleist Vokey 47* Oban CT 125, 51*, 55*, and 59* Shimada Tour Wedge Black
Bettinardi Studio Stock SS28

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From what I have been told by many company reps and higher ups, the strengthening of club lofts has been the result of two driving forces. The first is that players are always looking for clubs that will let them hit the ball further, strengthening lofts is a quick and easy way to make them think that they are doing that. I find this reasoning a bit more believable than the second answer that I have gotten. The modern game improvement irons are designed to launch the ball higher and enable the player to get the ball off of the ground. If they maintain the more traditional lofts, the ball will go too high and lose most of it's energy climbing higher rather than traveling further.

 

Thank you for the second half now that makes perfect sense. I take back all I said. <_>

The Bag:

Right handed

Cobra King FLYZ+ 10.5* w/ Aldila Rogue 125 R 44.5"

Tour Issued TM M2 10.5 w/ Mitsubishi Tensi CK Pro Blue 60S

Tour Issued TM M2 15* w/ GD Tour AD 7S 43"

TM R7 17.5 HFS w/ Tour AD 7S Stiff 42"

Cobra S3 Pro's 4-pw w/ Aldila RIP Tours SLT 115 Reg. 5i 38.5"

Titleist Vokey Proto's

52*,54*,58* all TTDG S-400

TM TP5 X

Scotty Cameron SSS Tiffany 009 350 34.5" or Bettinardi BB1 DASS Proto

GHIN # 5144472

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Or you could just have them bent to the right loft to fill the gap.

I'm gonna chime in...

Bending a wedge to change it's loft will also change the bounce of the club. not always the best thing to do.

 

@TWShoot67

 

I think you're kind of missing the point of my question. I believe at least 2 different people here have provided you numerous examples of companies who are doing this. That's not to say I care in the least why they're delofting clubs. My question was why they're delofting their iron sets and not offering standard "strong" gap and sand wedges.

 

 

 

I have found that most companies are offering stronger "standard" gap wedges in recent years. There is also the CLeveland/Titleist/Callaway/Ping method. All of those companies offer a standalone wedge lofted down to at least 50* and sometimes as low as 46*.

From what I have been told by many company reps and higher ups, the strengthening of club lofts has been the result of two driving forces. The first is that players are always looking for clubs that will let them hit the ball further, strengthening lofts is a quick and easy way to make them think that they are doing that. I find this reasoning a bit more believable than the second answer that I have gotten. The modern game improvement irons are designed to launch the ball higher and enable the player to get the ball off of the ground. If they maintain the more traditional lofts, the ball will go too high and lose most of it's energy climbing higher rather than traveling further.

I have heard these same arguments from the reps. It's all hogwash IMO. Is a customer is hitting 3 different 7 irons, and one goes 10 yards farther, which one is the average consumer gonna buy????

Driver -   :srixon-small: ZX 7 9.5° Ventus VeloCore Blue S
Fairway -  Tour Edge Exotics CB2 15° Grafalloy Prolite 35  S

Fairway - Tour Edge Exotics CB2 18° Grafalloy Prolite 35  S

Hybrid - :srixon-small: ZX 18° GD Tour IZ S

2 Iron - :srixon-small: ZU65 18° AeroTech SteelFiber 110icw S

Irons -  :srixon-small: ZX7  Aerotech SteelFiber 110icw  4-Pw 1° flat
Wedges - :cleveland-small: RTX Zipcore Raw 50° 54° 58°  TTGDTI S400 1° flat

Putters -   Cameron Phantom 5x/Odyssey Toulon Stroke Lab Austin/Odyssey 2 Ball DFX/ TaylorMade Spider
Tour Black/Ping Anser F/Scotty Cameron TeI3 Sole Stamp Newport 2. All with different grips, weights, and lengths.
 

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