Young guns and FIRE in the Belly!! or lack thereof...

[Golfware]

Okay, maybe it's me. But for some reason, I just didn't see the FIRE IN THE BELLY of Rickie Fowler yesterday, nor Camillo Villegas.

 

Hunter Mahan was playing well, but heck, even he made a couple of errors coming down the stretch and barely won the dang tournament. I guess the "fire" that I would see from Tiger Woods (circa 1997-2001), Lee Trevino, Seve and the likes is gone.

 

Yesterday, Rickie could have made birdie at #16 and didn't make it. Hell, he LAID up at #15, and didn't hit the green with his approach. That's the kind of crap that I do... not a PGA Tour player. Maybe he thinks that he'll have plenty of more chances to win. I want the guy that WANTS it NOW. Not next week. I want the the Pat Perez kinda guy that FIRES at the flag to end with a birdie and secure the victory, ala Bob Hope last year.

 

What the heck?? I was shocked to see Hunter Mahan nearly drives the green on #17, then hits a poor pitch to walks away with a par. What the heck?? He was just off the green, and that's the best he could do?? That's what I'd do.. not a PGA Tour player!

 

Am I asking too much??

[TWShoot67]

I don't know sometimes it's just not that easy to get the first win. As far as Hunter Mahan , I don't know how you can knit pick the ONLY PLAYER to go the ENTIRE weekend without a bogey and shoot back to back 65's, and your picking on one hole that he still made par??? Yes i think your asking too much. Also i have no problem with Rickie Fowler as of yet and I'm willing to lay down some coin that he will have more Tour wins then your buddy Perez! LOL seriously though how can you give the winner grief?

 

Tim

[Golfware]

Oh, just knit picking as I was surpised when his pitch from a perfect lie wound up 30ft short. Just surprised is all.

 

And that's the thing, you hit the nail right on the head. You're looking towards the future. How many wins he's "going" to have. I was just thinking what was going on in his head and that he wanted to win right NOW.

 

I mean, he lays up on the par 5 and then doesn't hit the green. Maybe I'm being too critical and comparing these guys to a young Tiger Woods, or Jack, or Lee or Watson. I probably shouldn't do that...

[Viper12]

One has to wonder if some of the younger guys are playing more for a check than a win. We sometimes forget guys like Phil and Tiger don't have to worry much about what they actually make playing golf as the majority of their money comes from endorsements. It would have been nice to see Fowler going at that par 5 in two but it's also easy to see why he would close playing it safe.

[Matt Saternus]

Personally, I find it hard to blame a guy for playing for a check. Get a nice check, finish high on the money list, keep your card, get more exemptions, and keep playing golf for a living. Being a "hot young gun" is no guarantee of success. I agree, it would have been nice to see him go for it, the last bit of the tournament would have been more exciting, but I can't criticize the decision, it's not my job or my money to spend.

[Golfware]

Personally, I find it hard to blame a guy for playing for a check. Get a nice check, finish high on the money list, keep your card, get more exemptions, and keep playing golf for a living. Being a "hot young gun" is no guarantee of success. I agree, it would have been nice to see him go for it, the last bit of the tournament would have been more exciting, but I can't criticize the decision, it's not my job or my money to spend.

 

Well, I guess that's what separates the Tiger's, Jack's and other superstars from the guys with talent, yet no "heart". You're still going to get paid, regardless. I suppose it depends on what type of legacy you want to be remembered for. You'll either be Craig Perks/Steve Jones or you'll be Tom Watson.

[Matt Saternus]

Well, I guess that's what separates the Tiger's, Jack's and other superstars from the guys with talent, yet no "heart". You're still going to get paid, regardless. I suppose it depends on what type of legacy you want to be remembered for. You'll either be Craig Perks/Steve Jones or you'll be Tom Watson.

 

There's no question that playing for a check will not create much of a legacy, I'm simply saying that I'm not going to criticize a guy who's more concerned about keeping his card than creating a legacy. I think there are parallels in many, many fields. For instance, most coaches (in all sports) are notoriously conservative. Might they win more games and create a legacy by being aggressive? Yes. Might they also lose games and get fired? Yes. Now I understand that in this instance Fowler had a shot that didn't seem particularly "aggressive" or risky for a pro, but nonetheless I think the comparison holds up.

 

A very good discussion topic, and I certainly appreciate the point that you're making. Best-

 

-Matt

[Golfware]

There's no question that playing for a check will not create much of a legacy, I'm simply saying that I'm not going to criticize a guy who's more concerned about keeping his card than creating a legacy. I think there are parallels in many, many fields. For instance, most coaches (in all sports) are notoriously conservative. Might they win more games and create a legacy by being aggressive? Yes. Might they also lose games and get fired? Yes. Now I understand that in this instance Fowler had a shot that didn't seem particularly "aggressive" or risky for a pro, but nonetheless I think the comparison holds up.

 

A very good discussion topic, and I certainly appreciate the point that you're making. Best-

 

-Matt

 

Hi Matt,

 

Yes, I do agree. Just seems like some of these guys are young and should have the go-for-broke mentality. Heck, Bob May went for broke and I applaud him for it. YE Yang went for broke, and he not only caught but he beat Tiger Woods. Whipped him in fact. That's what makes an impact. Good discussion.

[jamo]

A lot of them are just playing to get their Tour card so they don't have to go to Q School. They seem to be content with second. If you asked them I'm sure you wouldn't get that answer, but it seems true.

[Matt Saternus]

Hi Matt,

 

Yes, I do agree. Just seems like some of these guys are young and should have the go-for-broke mentality. Heck, Bob May went for broke and I applaud him for it. YE Yang went for broke, and he not only caught but he beat Tiger Woods. Whipped him in fact. That's what makes an impact. Good discussion.

 

YE Yang is a great example of going for it and winning, thus creating a great legacy (although legacy may be a little strong just yet). But, for every Yang, there's a Van de Velde. Then we all say, "He could have played the hole with a putter and won." Obviously, that comparison is a bit of a stretch because Van de Velde had the lead and didn't need to "go for it" to get the win, but you see my point. Legacies can just as easily be made by going for it and missing.

[Golfware]

YE Yang is a great example of going for it and winning, thus creating a great legacy (although legacy may be a little strong just yet). But, for every Yang, there's a Van de Velde. Then we all say, "He could have played the hole with a putter and won." Obviously, that comparison is a bit of a stretch because Van de Velde had the lead and didn't need to "go for it" to get the win, but you see my point. Legacies can just as easily be made by going for it and missing.

 

Agreed. Although he left a legacy as well. I don't remember who won the Open that year, but everyone remembers Jean Van de Velde. So you see, he left a legacy as well. LMAO!

[Matt Saternus]

Agreed. Although he left a legacy as well. I don't remember who won the Open that year, but everyone remembers Jean Van de Velde. So you see, he left a legacy as well. LMAO!

 

HAHAHA! Good point, I couldn't name the winner either (although my knowledge of golf history/trivia is unimpressive at the best of times).

[Richie3Jack]

I don't blame Fowler for laying up. I don't think it has to do with a 'fire in the belly' or lack thereof, but he was probably a bit nervous. Other young guys have an issue because they usually come from rich families, get treated like gods thru junior golf and college and then they are pampered on the PGA Tour as long as they can keep their card.

 

Look at the endorsement deals Sergio has.

 

The guy has never won a major and has more endorsements going on than Tom Watson who won 2 Masters, 1 US Open and FIVE British Opens.

 

 

 

 

 

3JACK

[Golfware]

I don't blame Fowler for laying up. I don't think it has to do with a 'fire in the belly' or lack thereof, but he was probably a bit nervous. Other young guys have an issue because they usually come from rich families, get treated like gods thru junior golf and college and then they are pampered on the PGA Tour as long as they can keep their card.

 

Look at the endorsement deals Sergio has.

 

The guy has never won a major and has more endorsements going on than Tom Watson who won 2 Masters, 1 US Open and FIVE British Opens.

 

 

 

 

 

3JACK

 

Oh, I'm not blaming Fowler for laying up. I'm calling him a "simp" for laying up. There's a difference. LOL.

[JohnBarry]

I disagree, I think we are going to see plenty of fire and personality from Ricky1 The kid has all the tools, a respect for the game and the people, but a style and flair all his own.

[Addicted2Golf]

I don't blame Fowler for laying up. I don't think it has to do with a 'fire in the belly' or lack thereof, but he was probably a bit nervous. Other young guys have an issue because they usually come from rich families, get treated like gods thru junior golf and college and then they are pampered on the PGA Tour as long as they can keep their card.

 

Look at the endorsement deals Sergio has.

 

The guy has never won a major and has more endorsements going on than Tom Watson who won 2 Masters, 1 US Open and FIVE British Opens.

 

3JACK

 

Sergio has endorsement deals because woman want him and men want the women who want him. Hopefully Rickie will have a little more game.

[Golfware]

Sergio has endorsement deals because woman want him and men want the women who want him. Hopefully Rickie will have a little more game.

 

Sergio has endorsement deals because he's the BEST ballstriker on Tour and has been the best for quite some time. He just can't putt to save his tail. If he could putt, he'd have won multiple Majors.

[Matt Saternus]

No argument that he's a fantastic ball striker, but I think a lot of the money is a result of him having/being a personality (and there's nothing wrong with that, golf needs more of them). If the best ball striker in the world was 40, 275 lbs, and dressed in biege Thursday through Sunday, he would probably not have much in the way of endorsements.

[NGage]

These young guys are gonna get paid no matter what. Back in the day, those old guys were playing to eat, playing to win a bet with no money in their pocket, and playing to live. That builds an intestinal fortitude that most now-a-days just can't obtain.

 

JMHO

YMMV

[GolfSpy Dave]

No argument that he's a fantastic ball striker, but I think a lot of the money is a result of him having/being a personality (and there's nothing wrong with that, golf needs more of them). If the best ball striker in the world was 40, 275 lbs, and dressed in biege Thursday through Sunday, he would probably not have much in the way of endorsements.

I see a KFC logo on his collar.

 

I had another thought about this. How many of these players have been on the golf track since early childhood? How many of them won everything in their region as amateurs? Perhaps they have won so often that they are a bit unmotivated. Not everyone, and I can't even put a name to my thought. They have been trained to play and win for so many years that when they do it is no big deal because that was the plan... Extreme discipline seems like no emotion or lack of fire. Maybe it is knowing that they can play again next week.

 

That is likely a record for blind speculations...

[jamo]

Sergio has endorsement deals because he's the BEST ballstriker on Tour and has been the best for quite some time. He just can't putt to save his tail. If he could putt, he'd have won multiple Majors.

 

I don't know. He does use his looks in several of the TV adds I've seen him in.

[Matt Saternus]

These young guys are gonna get paid no matter what. Back in the day, those old guys were playing to eat, playing to win a bet with no money in their pocket, and playing to live. That builds an intestinal fortitude that most now-a-days just can't obtain.

 

JMHO

YMMV

 

++++1 I said this exact thing to my dad the other day. I'm reading a Ben Hogan biography right now and it talks about how he and his wife drove from tournament to tournament and he needed to win enough money to pay for hotels and meals. That's simply not a concern for a PGA pro (though I do recognize that some of the guys on the mini tours do live that way). It's remarkably similar to poker (not sure if there are any other poker fans out there): Doyle Brunson and guys of that generation used to drive around to find games, got robbed, played with their last dime. The pros today are staked by casinos, have huge endorsements, never leave Vegas. Totally different world.