Sorting through Swing Thoughts / Accountability thread

[vandyland]

Neck is starting to feel normal again so hoping to hit balls on the range tomorrow. In the meantime, I am re-watching the No Turn Cast series and realized a few things I had lost touch with in my swing (funny how that happens?). One of the most obvious AND the key tenet in Cast A is the clubhead moving up and away from you in the downswing. Re-watching Monte do it showed me I was shutting the club down excessively versus how he does it (another way to present the toe of the club to the ball). Additionally, his input on Cast B will also help with my slight chicken wing action (if I can put it into practice) which was the main reason I started watching again. As always, it feels hard to just focus on one thing at a time when there are so many known faults in my swing that I either currently have or am at risk of backsliding into. Maybe that is just me or maybe that is just golf!

 

 

Edited February 23 by vandyland

[vandyland]

Was reviewing face on video and I noticed that I (again) have a pronounced lift up in the backswing. *Sigh* back to trying to stay in posture with is basically maintaining/increasing left side bend in the back swing. Very hard to hit the ball consistently if you are raising up and then trying to settle back down to where you were at setup. The practice continues. Hit about 75 balls last night and will likely double that tonight if the weather holds out.

Edited February 27 by vandyland

[Jim Shaw]

2 hours ago, vandyland said:

Was reviewing face on video and I noticed that I (again) have a pronounced lift up in the backswing. *Sigh* back to trying to stay in posture with is basically maintaining/increasing left side bend in the back swing. Very hard to hit the ball consistently if you are raising up and then trying to settle back down to where you were at setup. The practice continues. Hit about 75 balls last night and will likely double that tonight if the weather holds out.

nice to see these pictures, I wouldn't be overly concerned about a bit of movement in your head, no one can or should try to keep the head perfectly still in the golf swing, it confines our movement too much. What we should and must do is get our head (or more importantly our eyes) back to where they started, if you can do that you will hit the ball solid and transfer the energy from the clubbed to the ball. 

[RickyBobby_PR]

2 hours ago, Jim Shaw said:

nice to see these pictures, I wouldn't be overly concerned about a bit of movement in your head, no one can or should try to keep the head perfectly still in the golf swing, it confines our movement too much. What we should and must do is get our head (or more importantly our eyes) back to where they started, if you can do that you will hit the ball solid and transfer the energy from the clubbed to the ball. 

The head shouldnt be moving up in the backswing. It’s ok for it to move laterally a little. It’s ok to drop a little in the downswing.

what is happening in vandy’s swing isn’t good. 

[King_Bogey]

I know some of my faults: 

1. I have this thing where my practice swing looks pretty good, ok well average. I even follow through with a decent finish.
2. Now, when the ball is placed for me to hit, I do the backswing, do the downswing, and as soon as I make contact with the ball, my head automatically looks out towards the target to see what kind of distance the ball got.  And I just don't follow through like in my practice swing.
3. I also try to hit the ball as opposed to hitting through the ball.  You know the old "make a full golf swing, and the ball just gets in the way".  I just can't get that in my head.

I know these are "some" of my faults.  Can't wait to get lessons.  There are a couple of YouTube videos I am viewing in regards to the very simple basics.

[vandyland]

13 hours ago, RickyBobby_PR said:

The head shouldnt be moving up in the backswing. It’s ok for it to move laterally a little. It’s ok to drop a little in the downswing.

Agree with this.

15 hours ago, Jim Shaw said:

no one can or should try to keep the head perfectly still in the golf swing,

Also agree with this and I am not trying to lock my head in place like Jack Nicklaus but I don't want it rising up like it was. In the down the line video I can see my entire upper torso is rising up and flattening out (probably an indicator I am swinging too far back). In any event, this will lead to inconsistent low point I believe. 

[RickyBobby_PR]

42 minutes ago, vandyland said:

Agree with this.

Also agree with this and I am not trying to lock my head in place like Jack Nicklaus but I don't want it rising up like it was. In the down the line video I can see my entire upper torso is rising up and flattening out (probably an indicator I am swinging too far back). In any event, this will lead to inconsistent low point I believe. 

Correct. Best thing is to draw a circle around the head. The head should stay on the circle laterally in the backswing and down swing to maybe a little outside it on the downswing. It should stay in it vertically during the downswing but can drop a little.

The rising up is either because too much weight was forward in setup and your body is balancing itself out or from the club getting inside an turning flat and needing to create room so you flatten the turn 

[RickyBobby_PR]

Wrong thread 

Edited February 28 by RickyBobby_PR

[vandyland]

Quick summary of my trip to Pinehurst which had highs and lows but ultimately had the best round (or at least back 9) of my life. 

We played Pinehurst No. 3 to start which is a short, quirky course that I really enjoyed. It is only about 5300 yds but it was fairly small and very undulating greens with tons of runoffs and all that. You don't really have to hit driver at all, so I didn't. Shot a decent score and it really comes down to how well you can place a tee shot with an iron and then hit your wedge distances all day. Really fun!

In the afternoon we played Pinehurst No. 4 and the wheels were off on the golf swing, mainly with the driver. I just couldn't really get a feel to get my sequencing right and I was very obviously coming a bit over the top, then I would over correct and hit a massive push. Irons, wedges and putter was fine, it was just the driver. I was fairly down in the dumps for the first 6 holes. I kind of *found something* on hole 7 and by hole 10 I felt like I at least had a clue how to hit the face of my driver. But it all felt VERY tenuous. Like it could go at any minute. This continued through the round and I shot a fairly below average round out there. 

The next morning we were off Pinehurst No. 2 (yes THAT course) at 7:30 AM in a fog so thick you couldn't see more than 75 yds in front of yourself.

At this point I am feeling very shaky with my driver so I hit utility iron off the first 3 holes (went triple, bogey, bogey). I finally decided that I MUST figure my driver out no matter what. On Hole #4 I hit a 50 yd hook that was somehow encouraging, salvaged a bogey. Somehow I felt like I found it despite all evidence saying otherwise. I hit a good, normal drive on the par 5 #5 hole and hit the green in two and made a birdie. And then we were off. Parred holes 6-9 to make the turn in 41. But more importantly, my driver was working. Then things went crazy, in a good way. My back 9 went like this....

Par 5 10th Hole: Birdie
Par 4 11th Hole: Birdie
Par 4 12th Hole: Double Bogey (had to take an unplayable from the wire grass)
Par 4 13th Hole: Birdie
Par 4 14th Hole: Birdie
Par 3 15th Hole: Par (up and down from waste bunker that looked like bogey for sure)
Par 5 16th Hole: Birdie
Par 3 17th Hole: Par
Par 4 18th Hole: Birdie (made a 12 footer with a "gallery" all eating at the Deuce/Member's Grill) one of my best golf memories to date.

In summary, I made 7 birdies in the round. Was +6 through 4 holes and ended up shooting 73 on a very challenging, elite golf course. This was resilience, in my mind. Even making double on #12 I just kept going. Normally, I get down on myself when I can't "find it" but somehow I found it. Not sure how I would have felt if I had played terribly but now I have a phenomenal memory and will watch the US Open WITH GREAT INTEREST. Also, I will bore everyone to tears telling them the story of this round for quite sometime. 
 

 

 

Edited March 4 by vandyland

[vandyland]

Hit balls at the range yesterday using the feel I "found" at Pinehurst and was hitting good consistent shots that started slightly right of target with a slight draw. That tells me I am coming from the inside but was catching the center of the face (not the TOE!) and hitting very consistent distances. Was just hitting 8 irons. Hit some 75%, 90% and 100% 8 irons all with pretty good results though I was having to concentrate more on sequencing with the slower shots rather than the full speed which is the opposite problem I usually have. 

Also hit about 20 shots with driver as I feel like that is THE most impactful club in my bag currently. Was losing balls right initially despite hitting push draws with my irons. I hypothesized that my ball position had drifted too far forward and moved my ball position back 2 balls (still well forward of center) and IMMEDIATELY strike, start line and ball flight improved. Was able to hit straight balls and draws from here much easier. Felt like home!

Current feel is throwing away the lag and almost trying to "put my hands in my back right pocket". This can be overdone obviously but it helps me (a) not cast over the top and (b) not spin out from the top. This can lead to fat shots if I don't transfer my pressure on time but that is the golf swing. 

Also working on hitting chip shots with my Monte feels from my clinic last year which are:
- Quiet lower body with weight shifted toward the target and kept there
- Extend the head and chest in the downswing (I had stopped doing this)

[Jim Shaw]

1 hour ago, vandyland said:

Hit balls at the range yesterday using the feel I "found" at Pinehurst and was hitting good consistent shots that started slightly right of target with a slight draw. That tells me I am coming from the inside but was catching the center of the face (not the TOE!) and hitting very consistent distances. Was just hitting 8 irons. Hit some 75%, 90% and 100% 8 irons all with pretty good results though I was having to concentrate more on sequencing with the slower shots rather than the full speed which is the opposite problem I usually have. 

Also hit about 20 shots with driver as I feel like that is THE most impactful club in my bag currently. Was losing balls right initially despite hitting push draws with my irons. I hypothesized that my ball position had drifted too far forward and moved my ball position back 2 balls (still well forward of center) and IMMEDIATELY strike, start line and ball flight improved. Was able to hit straight balls and draws from here much easier. Felt like home!

Current feel is throwing away the lag and almost trying to "put my hands in my back right pocket". This can be overdone obviously but it helps me (a) not cast over the top and (b) not spin out from the top. This can lead to fat shots if I don't transfer my pressure on time but that is the golf swing. 

Also working on hitting chip shots with my Monte feels from my clinic last year which are:
- Quiet lower body with weight shifted toward the target and kept there
- Extend the head and chest in the downswing (I had stopped doing this)

great post, congratulations on finding the proper "ball position" remember that may change marginally from day to day or week to week depending on a few factors (I think) but ball position is something that I am focusing on big time...

[vandyland]

More sporadic updates these days, in a bit of lull currently as I don't have any big goals at present. But, I did want to share a small tweak to my chipping/pitching that has been very helpful:

Setup: Weight left (70% of weight on front foot), hands even with the clubhead so there is no forward press
Feel: No weight transfer, quiet lower body. Basically weight starts left and stays left. 
Big Change: Extend the head and chest in the downswing.

A bit hard to explain in words but previously I was staying very "down" in my chipping and I felt like I was getting steep and out to in coming into the ball. This subtle "extension of the head and chest" shallows me out a little bit, helps me elevate the ball and my low point consistency is much improved. Now my "miss" is a slightly thin shot (not a skull but just a groove low). Fat shots are almost (ALMOST!) impossible here because those are generally down to weight shift being bad or loss of posture downward. This has helped my sand game and generally chipping and short pitches. Also, I can hit this shot easily off a tight lie or fluffy grass. Just feeling VERY confident chipping the ball at the moment. 

Played twice while in Florida, shot an 80 and a 73. The 80 at Regatta Bay was down to iron play not being that sharp and just putting myself in a few bad spots. That is a tough golf course. The 73 was much more in line with how I feel like I have been playing. Driver has been good since I moved my ball position back slightly. Irons were fine. Wedges were great and chipping/sand/pitching feels very comfortable with the feel described above. Putting is streaky as always but I have moved the ball back in my stance there as well and had less pull misses, it is more just down to speed at this point. 

[JAYER38]

On 2/28/2024 at 10:52 AM, RickyBobby_PR said:

Correct. Best thing is to draw a circle around the head. The head should stay on the circle laterally in the backswing and down swing to maybe a little outside it on the downswing. It should stay in it vertically during the downswing but can drop a little.

The rising up is either because too much weight was forward in setup and your body is balancing itself out or from the club getting inside an turning flat and needing to create room so you flatten the turn 

The second part of this just made so much sense to me and gave me something to really look at in my swing!

Its amazing how something just click when they are explained the right way for someone

[vandyland]

Had a great round yesterday (shot 73 which ties my low round at this course) and most everything was clicking for me. Driver I would give an A- (ball position is doing the trick and ball is coming out quite straight but a *little* spinny), Irons I would give an A-, Wedges are a B+, Chipping/Pitching is an A- (loving the feel I have right now) and Putting was amazing yesterday, an A for sure. 

A fairly tight track with a lot of elevation change, I am very happy with these stats:

Fairways hit: 10/14 (71%) missed 2 left and 2 right
OB balls: 0
GIR: 12 (67%) missed 4 long, 2 short and 1 left
Putts: 31, with 1 3 putt
Scrambling: 3/6 (50%)
Birdies: 3

[vandyland]

Well, another really good round and the accomplishment of a 2024 goal....I shot -1, 71 and it's my first round under par in over a year. Very exciting. Did most everything well, particularly driving and putting. Only one 3 putt and no balls out of play, requiring a chip out or less than 260 yds with the driver. All good things. I have not watched video of my swing in over a month and I wonder if that is helping me just go out and play. I have a good feel right now and I am just trying to run with it as long as I can. 

[Jim Shaw]

16 minutes ago, vandyland said:

Well, another really good round and the accomplishment of a 2024 goal....I shot -1, 71 and it's my first round under par in over a year. Very exciting. Did most everything well, particularly driving and putting. Only one 3 putt and no balls out of play, requiring a chip out or less than 260 yds with the driver. All good things. I have not watched video of my swing in over a month and I wonder if that is helping me just go out and play. I have a good feel right now and I am just trying to run with it as long as I can. 

so great to see your hard work in paying off, congratulations...

[downeyjr]

On 11/6/2023 at 6:50 AM, vandyland said:

Well, went into this weekend's round a little flustered about my takeaway and release. Never a good feeling! Anyway, started out double bogey, double bogey with ZERO lost balls (3 putted both greens among other things). But then eagled the par 5 3rd hole (540 yds) so a crazy start. Steadied the ship from there on and ended up making only one more bogey and one birdie to finish +2, 74. Was driving the ball really well but irons felt a little....sketchy. Did a good job putting after the first two holes but I really need to get comfortable on my first move back off the ball. Will need to re-watch the NTC and Efficient swing sections on the part 1 of the takeaway. 

Has nothing to do with the golf but I really like my new golf bag, the SunMountain Mid-Stripe. I need a larger bag that could fit all my clubs and had full length dividers with minimal logos and this fit the bill. Won out over the Vessels (not available in our shop), the Stitches (seems a tad overpriced) and Linksmasters (too small) of the world.  
 

 

 

How is this bag holding up for you? My Nike bag is getting a bit tattered and looking a nicer bag that I'm also able to walk with when it isn't too hot out. 

[vandyland]

2 hours ago, downeyjr said:

How is this bag holding up for you?

Very easy to clean and is sturdy...no issues on the durability front. Also I can fit all of my clubs in there which is a bonus. On the flipside, it is not the lightest bag in the world. I can and do carry it but it is certainly heavier than a linksmaster or a hoofer but that was my tradeoff for a bag that could hold all of my clubs (mainly my HUGE LAB putter). 

[downeyjr]

1 hour ago, vandyland said:

I can and do carry it but it is certainly heavier than a linksmaster or a hoofer but that was my tradeoff for a bag that could hold all of my clubs (mainly my HUGE LAB putter). 

Was looking at this, the links legend and the flextech premium. Good to know they are easy to clean as the Mid-Stripe is a looker.

I don't have a LAB putter...yet...so probably could sacrifice some space, just not go down too much or else I'd think about the SL2. 

[vandyland]

@downeyjr I really wanted a linksmaster/legend but going into the golf shop and actually trying to put my clubs in there was what showed me it could never be . I am happy with my bag even though I wanted the dark blue. The space is great and, for once, I can actually carry 14 clubs now. 

On the swing front, I finally put a 4W back in my back after it was in timeout for a year+. Hit it very well on the range and hit it twice off the tee during my round. Two fairways hit, both flew out there about 230 yds so that is a great gap to fill. I assume probably 220 off the turf (assuming a good strike) since I get a touch more off a tee. Shot 76 and decided that I will try to play Driver (9.5*), 4W (16*) and Hybrid (turned up to 21.25*) at the top of my bag and drop the utility iron for a bit. I like the utility iron but it only gets used off the tee. I don't like the sole for hitting it off the turf. We will see how long this lasts but would be a great indicator for my swing changes if I could (finally) hit a fairway wood off the deck consistently. Range indications are yes but we all know the pressure of trying to hit a green in 2 is much different than the range. 

[downeyjr]

I feel your pain of hitting FW on turf, I chopped mine way down to help control the low point and then swing it exactly like an iron. It has helped me out a ton but I still rarely ever use it probably from PTSD. Also, soggy conditions over here in the PNW make it very unforgiving to hit FW or hybrid off of the fairway.

[vandyland]

6 hours ago, downeyjr said:

I chopped mine way down to help control the low point and then swing it exactly like an iron.

I have my 3W playing at 41.25" which is 5W length for most people. To your point, moving the ball back in my stance (closer to the middle) has made all the difference in the world. It is a *little* spinnier but comes out much consistently good. I moved my driver ball position back a tad as well (certainly not middle of the stance but not extreme forward anymore). I have found that my ball position creeps forward if I don't watch it. We will see how the next few rounds go. I am itching to have 220+ left into a hole to see how this thing does. I also may just drop a ball next time I play by myself or if we are jammed up on the course. 

[fixyurdivot]

On 2/27/2024 at 2:03 PM, vandyland said:

Was reviewing face on video and I noticed that I (again) have a pronounced lift up in the backswing. *Sigh* back to trying to stay in posture with is basically maintaining/increasing left side bend in the back swing. Very hard to hit the ball consistently if you are raising up and then trying to settle back down to where you were at setup. The practice continues. Hit about 75 balls last night and will likely double that tonight if the weather holds out.

Is it just me or does this guy look like he can put a serious hurt on a golf ball .  I fight the lifting up issue as well and have been constantly reminding myself about it.

[vandyland]

@fixyurdivot Only when it is downwind, downhill...haha. 

Played 9 holes on Sunday and had an interesting round. Through the first 5 holes I had no pars or birdies. I went bogey, eagle, bogey, bogey, bogey. The course I played is fairly open but has tiny greens and spotty conditions. I settled down for the remainder and closed out par, par, birdie (sandy birdie no less), par to shoot +1 36 on a par 35. Overall, played well. Hit good tee shots, the bogeys came from the following:

Hole 1: 3 putt on first green (rolled my 20 footer 10 feet past...they were faster than I expected)
Hole 3: 3 putt on a 45 foot putt (left it 8 ft short...was still scared)
Hole 4: Had 45 yds left into the green on a front pin and tried to flag it, left it a yard short and it rolled off the front...couldn't get up and down
Hole 5: Had another 3 putt....did I mention the greens were fast?

Would put most of the errors down to bad putting and decision making. Overall, ball flight was beautiful. I did get some video of my swing this weekend and everything looks normal so I am leaving it at that for now. 

[vandyland]

Had a range session yesterday in what seriously felt like 40 mph winds. I believe I read somewhere that range sessions in high winds are not particularly helpful. To that end, I was struggling a little bit with my release so I just chalked it up to a bad day and went and chipped/pitched. I have a big round coming up this weekend that I am excited about so hopefully I did not forget how to play golf (again). Will hopefully get back to the range today or tomorrow to see what is going on these days. As always, when the ball flight/contact starts to get squirrelly, I start second guessing my setup/takeaway/first move down...all that. As always, I expect it is just me either yanking down on the club in transition or not casting "deep" enough. Something that ends up with my hips getting out in front of me is typically a death move. 

[Jim Shaw]

7 hours ago, vandyland said:

Had a range session yesterday in what seriously felt like 40 mph winds. I believe I read somewhere that range sessions in high winds are not particularly helpful. To that end, I was struggling a little bit with my release so I just chalked it up to a bad day and went and chipped/pitched. I have a big round coming up this weekend that I am excited about so hopefully I did not forget how to play golf (again). Will hopefully get back to the range today or tomorrow to see what is going on these days. As always, when the ball flight/contact starts to get squirrelly, I start second guessing my setup/takeaway/first move down...all that. As always, I expect it is just me either yanking down on the club in transition or not casting "deep" enough. Something that ends up with my hips getting out in front of me is typically a death move. 

what is your "big round"?

[vandyland]

2 hours ago, Jim Shaw said:

what is your "big round"?

Just a round with some good players (all better than me) at a course an hour away that I have been wanting to play. Something that generally makes me nervous which I just assume is excitement. There is always the desire to play well but it is amplified under such conditions. Not a competition or anything, I just want to play well.

[Jim Shaw]

1 hour ago, vandyland said:

Just a round with some good players (all better than me) at a course an hour away that I have been wanting to play. Something that generally makes me nervous which I just assume is excitement. There is always the desire to play well but it is amplified under such conditions. Not a competition or anything, I just want to play well.

those are the best, enjoy...

[vandyland]

Had a fantastic saturday round. Played a golf course that is easily now, after playing it, in my Top 5 most fun golf courses of all time* and made 5 birdies to shoot 71 which is a 0.2 differential on the old GHIN (par 70). Maybe hit 2 bad shots all day. Driver was on cruise control, putts were going in, wedges were flighting. It was great. I just tried to think of the pressure of playing well as EXCITEMENT rather than nerves. Stayed with my swing thoughts and just loved every second of it. Golf is truly more fun when things are going well and trying to manage my own expectations as after I made 3 birdies in a row was a challenge but we did it. 

* In no particular order: True Blue, Pinehurst No. 4, Pursell Farms, Tobacco Road, Park Mammoth (KY)

[downeyjr]

When I see a course without trees I get excited! Although right now my struggle is with my distance control on my wedges and then par 3 performance. 

Trying to work on mindfulness during the round and hoping that will help, somehow.....Also hoping that mindfulness will help me take my swing I'm working on to the course.