Grinding on approach play - what's your... approach?

[Rearviewmirror]

I've been spending some time digging into my last ten rounds, and figuring out where I'm losing strokes. After working on my putting A LOT I'm now solidly in range of where I need to be, and hoping to continue to gain some strokes there.

However, my SG inside 120 yards is currently killing my scoring. I'm averaging 5 GIRs a round over the last ten rounds, and missing at least 8 greens short (I have experimented with playing back of green yardages vs middle of green but on quite a few of our courses short is a better miss).

I've tried a few different practice approaches - Divotboard at the range and using the TopTracer Approach and Closest to the Pin games; playing the par 3 course and dropping balls from 120, 110, 100, 90 etc.

What are people's favorite drills/practice routines for approach play?

I'm also looking into getting all my wedges adjusted to be the same length, as increasingly I think my 54º is too short for me (contact is inconsistent, toeing the ball/coming too inside) but even if this is partially a gear issue, I also need a more effective way to hone my approach game.

Thanks all!

[Josh Parker]

What is your 120 club?  Are you having to take full shots at that distance and having mishits? 

Practice 3/4 shots with the next club up. 

I typically want a couple different shot types from that distance and may use 2 different clubs depending on flight. 

[GolfSpy MPR]

Since you have access to a range with launch monitor feedback, I would encourage a lot of randomized distance shots. It sound like, since you're using the DivotBoard, you're already aware of the critical importance of strike. Keep monitoring that.

If the TopTracer software will spit out random distances, ask it to do so. Otherise, put a random number generator app on your phone and keep asking it to give you numbers in your weak range. When you hit a shot, immediate guess how close you are to your target number, and especially whether you think you went long or short. You'll find that, after a bit of practice, you really begin to dial in a feel for those yardages.

[Rearviewmirror]

7 minutes ago, Josh Parker said:

What is your 120 club?  Are you having to take full shots at that distance and having mishits? 

Practice 3/4 shots with the next club up. 

I typically want a couple different shot types from that distance and may use 2 different clubs depending on flight. 

Typical 120 club is typically a smooth 9 iron (full 9i is 130), but can also be a held off/three quarters 8 iron if I'm trying to flight it down a bit or want it to chase on vs stop dead. PW is typically 110/115 and so may hit that if short is safer than long. The i230s are a bit more akin to "retro" lofts, and I'm typically not trying to kill iron shots unless it's a recovery shot where I have it back foot and want the ball to chase down the fairway.

@GolfSpy MPR good to hear - sounds like I'm on the right track and just need to do more. I'm also trying to find a grass range, as the divot board is helpful feedback, but I also need reps with turf feedback for those "shorty" shots. It's entirely possible I've brought some of this on myself as I have introduced a bit more shaft lean recently.

[Wheelieb]

33 minutes ago, Rearviewmirror said:

I'm also looking into getting all my wedges adjusted to be the same length, as increasingly I think my 54º is too short for me

How tall are you and how long is your 54? From someone who struggled hitting their own 54 degree wedge, I decided to go and hit the wedges at golf galaxy to see which one I hit more consistently. I used to have callaway Jaws wedges, but I couldn’t find the center of the face with my 54. I went through them all and found the Cleveland full face and Taylormade Hi-Toe had the best center strikes. I chose to go with the Taylormade cause I just like the copper look. I’d say if you could, go test some out as it may just not be a brand for you. 

[Rearviewmirror]

3 minutes ago, Wheelieb said:

How tall are you and how long is your 54? From someone who struggled hitting their own 54 degree wedge, I decided to go and hit the wedges at golf galaxy to see which one I hit more consistently. I used to have callaway Jaws wedges, but I couldn’t find the center of the face with my 54. I went through them all and found the Cleveland full face and Taylormade Hi-Toe had the best center strikes. I chose to go with the Taylormade cause I just like the copper look. I’d say if you could, go test some out as it may just not be a brand for you. 

Funny you should say that re: the Callaway. I tried it at my wedge fitting and it was shank city for me - literally the only wedge where I could not hit the center of the club... I'm 5'11" and my 54º is 35.125", 58º is 34.875º. My PW and UW are 35.5" and feel a lot more "comfortable" over the ball. With both 54 and 58 I'll sometimes come way too inside/over the top in bunkers and have occasionally straight up missed the ball (!). 

[Josh Parker]

18 minutes ago, Rearviewmirror said:

Typical 120 club is typically a smooth 9 iron (full 9i is 130), but can also be a held off/three quarters 8 iron if I'm trying to flight it down a bit or want it to chase on vs stop dead. PW is typically 110/115 and so may hit that if short is safer than long. The i230s are a bit more akin to "retro" lofts, and I'm typically not trying to kill iron shots unless it's a recovery shot where I have it back foot and want the ball to chase down the fairway.

@GolfSpy MPR good to hear - sounds like I'm on the right track and just need to do more. I'm also trying to find a grass range, as the divot board is helpful feedback, but I also need reps with turf feedback for those "shorty" shots. It's entirely possible I've brought some of this on myself as I have introduced a bit more shaft lean recently.

So, it sounds like your short of green numbers may be a bit skewed if you are taking less club on purpose. It may be a confidence thing of trusting the ball to stop. It sounds like you are practicing well and have the shots to hit the GIR's.  

Is the ball not stopping like you want?  May be time to test out some different golf balls. 

 

[Josh Parker]

23 minutes ago, Wheelieb said:

How tall are you and how long is your 54? From someone who struggled hitting their own 54 degree wedge, I decided to go and hit the wedges at golf galaxy to see which one I hit more consistently. I used to have callaway Jaws wedges, but I couldn’t find the center of the face with my 54. I went through them all and found the Cleveland full face and Taylormade Hi-Toe had the best center strikes. I chose to go with the Taylormade cause I just like the copper look. I’d say if you could, go test some out as it may just not be a brand for you. 

It could be a bounce issue as well on the 54*  I have had that in the past where it was just off enough and making contact with the ground just before the ball. 

[Rearviewmirror]

Just now, Josh Parker said:

So, it sounds like your short of green numbers may be a bit skewed if you are taking less club on purpose. It may be a confidence thing of trusting the ball to stop. It sounds like you are practicing well and have the shots to hit the GIR's.  

It's honestly more that 120 happens to be a slight 'tweener number for me (which was the yardage you asked about) at the moment. I think some of this is definitely a product of becoming a bit tentative during winter with wet conditions/fear of fatting the ball.

Pre-winter, distances were 140yds 8 iron, 130yds 9 iron, 115yds PW, 105yds U, 90yds 54º, but I've probably lost 5-10yds on those in winter. 9 iron and PW are solid GIR clubs for me, but U and below my quality strike ratio isn't great at the moment (not what you want when you hit a nice 250yd drive middle of the fairway, then chunk the 90yd approach shot).

Bounce on the 54º is 10º and feels right around the greens. I'm not hitting shots thin with it, it more feels like a path issue. Both PW and U are 13º (Ping standard). 58º is 6º but I only use it for wet bunker shots and pitching from tight lies. I wouldn't attempt a full shot with it unless fairways are dry.

[Josh Parker]

3 minutes ago, Rearviewmirror said:

It's honestly more that 120 happens to be a slight 'tweener number for me (which was the yardage you asked about) at the moment. I think some of this is definitely a product of becoming a bit tentative during winter with wet conditions/fear of fatting the ball.

Pre-winter, distances were 140yds 8 iron, 130yds 9 iron, 115yds PW, 105yds U, 90yds 54º, but I've probably lost 5-10yds on those in winter. 9 iron and PW are solid GIR clubs for me, but U and below my quality strike ratio isn't great at the moment (not what you want when you hit a nice 250yd drive middle of the fairway, then chunk the 90yd approach shot).

Bounce on the 54º is 10º and feels right around the greens. I'm not hitting shots thin with it, it more feels like a path issue. Both PW and U are 13º (Ping standard). 58º is 6º but I only use it for wet bunker shots and pitching from tight lies. I wouldn't attempt a full shot with it unless fairways are dry.

Ah, got it. I was going off the original post about the 120 number. 

"However, my SG inside 120 yards is currently killing my scoring. I'm averaging 5 GIRs a round over the last ten rounds, and missing at least 8 greens short (I have experimented with playing back of green yardages vs middle of green but on quite a few of our courses short is a better miss)."

For chunks, I really like placing a small towel right behind the ball and practice hitting shots.  I have found it makes me strike the ball first.  

[Rearviewmirror]

4 minutes ago, Josh Parker said:

Ah, got it. I was going off the original post about the 120 number. 

"However, my SG inside 120 yards is currently killing my scoring. I'm averaging 5 GIRs a round over the last ten rounds, and missing at least 8 greens short (I have experimented with playing back of green yardages vs middle of green but on quite a few of our courses short is a better miss)."

For chunks, I really like placing a small towel right behind the ball and practice hitting shots.  I have found it makes me strike the ball first.  

Good tip with the small towel. I'll give that a shot! For reference this is the current picture:

[Rearviewmirror]

I decided to pull the trigger on a refurbished Rapsodo MLM (non MLM2 Pro version) to do some distance work. I'll be interested to see how it goes!

[Rearviewmirror]

Alright back from hitting my usual Pro V1s and compared to range balls. Due to the size of the short game practice area I couldn't hit anything longer than a 7 iron, but the results are interesting. The comparison is Rapsodo MLM with the range ball setting for the range balls, and premium ball setting for the ProV1.

54º - 4yds shorter

GW - 4yds shorter

PW - 9yds shorter

9i - 6.5yds shorter

8i - 12yds shorter

7i - 8yds shorter

So basically call it 5yds shorter on wedges and ~10yds shorter from PW up. Likely close enough for me. Interestingly the measured ProV1 data is actually pretty close to the TopTracer estimates at the range with range balls (albeit 3 yards shorter) for almost everything except my gap wedge, which is 10yds shorter in real life vs the TopTracer estimate.

[Stuka44]

On 3/17/2024 at 8:44 AM, Rearviewmirror said:

It's honestly more that 120 happens to be a slight 'tweener number for me

I had the same problem with 125 yards.  I simply didn't have the right loft with my full swing to have a club go 125 yards.  When I bought new clubs, not specifically to remedy this problem, I made sure that the lofts of the new clubs were going to address this problem.  And it came with eliminating a hybrid at the top, and putting in another wedge at the bottom.  I bought the clubs I did specifically to eliminate this gap.  Which I wrangled with for 8 years of using my old set, trying to calculate ahead of time, off the tee, or on 2nd shot on par 5's,  to avoid leaving myself between 120 and 130 yards.

I hope you figure out the best solution.  And I would simply say many(myself included) have a hard time full swinging high lofted irons.  56 is my highest loft, and I rarely full swing it(used for bunkers, and right around the green when necessary).  It goes 85 yards when struck well, unfortunately an equal number of times it goes 40 yards(chunked), or 140 yards(complete skull shot).  My 52 goes 100, and I partial swing it for 75-100, under 75,  with no wrist break using either club, its shoulder turn only with AW 48d(50-75), or the 52d(50 yards and under).

Good Luck on the best solution.

 

Edited April 1 by Stuka44

[Rearviewmirror]

6 minutes ago, Stuka44 said:

I had the same problem with 125 yards.  I simply didn't have the right loft with my full swing to have a club go 125 yards.  When I bought new clubs, not specifically to remedy this problem, I made sure that the lofts of the new clubs were going to address this problem.  And it came with eliminating a hybrid at the top, and putting in another wedge at the bottom.  I bought the clubs I did specifically to eliminate this gap.  Which I wrangled with for 8 years of using my old set, trying to calculate ahead of time, off the tee, or on 2nd shot on par 5's,  to avoid leaving myself between 120 and 130 yards.

It's nice to know I'm not alone at least

[RickyBobby_PR]

On 3/17/2024 at 8:10 AM, Rearviewmirror said:

Typical 120 club is typically a smooth 9 iron (full 9i is 130), but can also be a held off/three quarters 8 iron if I'm trying to flight it down a bit or want it to chase on vs stop dead. PW is typically 110/115 and so may hit that if short is safer than long. The i230s are a bit more akin to "retro" lofts, and I'm typically not trying to kill iron shots unless it's a recovery shot where I have it back foot and want the ball to chase down the fairway.

What factors are you taking into account for when to play something other than a stock swing?

If you are having problems with coming up short as much as you are doing I would consider changing strategies about how you play shots. 

[RickyBobby_PR]

On 3/17/2024 at 8:57 AM, Rearviewmirror said:

Good tip with the small towel. I'll give that a shot! For reference this is the current picture:

The problem with this drill is it might be a good one or a bad one depending on what’s causing the issue. If you are dumping the trail shoulder and hitting fat the towel drill isn’t going for be a good one for you and will probably make thing worse 

if it’s an issue if just not getting pressure to lead side early then it wouid Be a good drill.

 

[RoverRick]

I was just thinking about this. I was fortunate enough to be selected for the TPT Shaft testing and, while I’m only 3 rounds into it, I feel like my 200+ game is on track to get me a decent bit down the fairway. My putting is excellent, my 135 and in game is also pretty good. 

We have been playing a Deuce Pot all year. You put $20 in the pot and then divide it up at the end of the rounds among those with a deuce. I’ve “made” over $1000 this year on it. Made is in quotations because I don’t deduct the $20 I put in. My par 3 scoring average is now a 3.1 because I’m focused more on getting on the green and trying to make the putt to win part of the pot. 

I feel like my par 5 scores will be tending down because my driver, 3 wood and 3 hybrid are better thanks to TPT Shafts. My strategy on them is not going for it in 2, but putting my second shot in prime position to wedge it close and make the putt. Current scoring average is 5.1 on the par 5’s. 

So that leaves the par 4’s. Scoring average there is 4.5. My accuracy in the 140-190 range is not the best. I’ve been gaming the P790’s and love them. They are easy to hit, but big surprise, a less than perfect strike loses distance. Therefore, I have decided to resurrect the Ping G425 hybrids. I got these a couple of years ago when having knee  problems with regular shafts. When I changed the shafts I wasn’t in love with them and was considering selling them, but the Jon Sinclair with TPT shafts rebuilt the 3 hybrid from a club I really hated into a serious weapon. I’m awaiting the epoxy to dry on some shafts and will soon experiment with head weights. 

My GolfShots says 10% birdies, 51% pars, 30% bogies, 9% doubles. The answer to lowering my handicap is not making more birdies. While that certainly doesn’t hurt, it is eliminating errors and getting on the green to take advantage of my putter. 

Top 3 clubs are on their way to getting much better. Bottom 7 clubs may cost me the occasional stroke, but it is the 4-7 irons that are costing me the most. I’m going to see about tightening these yardages up. Perhaps I will have 4 wedges, 2 irons, 5 hybrids, 3w, driver and putter. Perhaps there is another bag arrangement that will be better. It’s all about finding the green and either making the putt or taping it in. 

[RoverRick]

14 hours ago, RoverRick said:

Top 3 clubs are on their way to getting much better. Bottom 7 clubs may cost me the occasional stroke, but it is the 4-7 irons that are costing me the most. I’m going to see about tightening these yardages up. Perhaps I will have 4 wedges, 2 irons, 5 hybrids, 3w, driver and putter. Perhaps there is another bag arrangement that will be better. It’s all about finding the green and either making the putt or taping it in. 

I was thinking about a bag change to hit more GIR. I misspoke. The wedges and short iron as far as clubs don’t cost me a strokes. That is entirely operator error. I’m just checking if perhaps the bunch of hybrids with there built in forgiveness, higher launch, and ease of adjustability might be better options. 

I never really considered changing the head weight, but the shaft change and weight change in the G425 3H has changed that club from a marginal and under-performing club to a real weapon. I’m certain I will change the 4i for a 4h. Perhaps the 5 and even considering the 6-7. I abandoned these hybrids over a year ago because they were one dimensional vs irons but my 3 hybrid experience has me wanting to revisit these. 

Edited April 2 by RoverRick

[Iamsecond116]

Your Short Game Solution by James Sieckmann. Distance wedges are a different swing sequence than the full swing, and "finesse wedges", as he calls them (35 yards and in) are different as well. Highly recommended and I feel as if it will do as much or more for your approach game 125 yards and in. 

[BMart519]

On 3/17/2024 at 5:34 AM, Rearviewmirror said:

However, my SG inside 120 yards is currently killing my scoring. I'm averaging 5 GIRs a round over the last ten rounds, and missing at least 8 greens short (I have experimented with playing back of green yardages vs middle of green but on quite a few of our courses short is a better miss).

What are people's favorite drills/practice routines for approach play?

I'm also looking into getting all my wedges adjusted to be the same length, as increasingly I think my 54º is too short for me (contact is inconsistent, toeing the ball/coming too inside) but even if this is partially a gear issue, I also need a more effective way to hone my approach game.

Thanks all!

The older voice caddie SC200 and 200+ launch monitors are cheap. They have an approach mode which spits out random numbers from 40-100 yards and scores each shot from 6-10 points based on proximity (11 points for hitting the yardage on the number). Something like this would really help you. I assume your 54 only goes 80-90 yards based on your PW distance. So everything above that should be full/stock swings and everything below your full 54 distance is all partial/feel shots using a clock system or some other technique. The only way to build those feels is reps. For more GIRs (specifically from 80-120):

- go back to playing middle/back yardages, even if behind the green is often the worse miss. Until you are missing over the green 4+ times per round, you will likely hit more total GIR and score better. Hitting it 2-3 yards over the back is likely not that penal. You're not miraculously going to hit it 20 yards over the green. 
- start thinking of each club as a range and lay that over the green. (your 9 is your 120-130 club, or 115-125 if you lost 5 yards as mentioned above)
- For the 9i example: If the back of green is 130, you should be hitting 9 unless it is a front pin and very deep green. You will hit it 120 often and sometimes shorter. 
- any green where the front is 120 should likely be a smooth 8 because if you miss the 9 at all you are off the green
- favoring playing short and eliminating the chance of a GIR is far worse for your scores than having some long putts from back of green. 8/13 missed greens being short can easily be improved by going up 1 club with no improvements to your swing mechanics or equipment. 
- don't use a laser, use a GPS with front/middle/back yardages. Play to back for all back and mid pins, consider playing to middle for a front pin. 

Subconsciously you should be more relaxed knowing you have some extra club and hit it better. If not, test hitting your irons as hard as comfortable (your "Full" distance or even farther) and see which is more consistent both laterally and in carry distance. Use the better performing feel, establish you carry distances on a good launch monitor (average the carry of at least 10 shots removing any terrible shanks/skulls), then take that average to the course and start laying it over the greens with it biased towards the back/middle. If you really want to avoid hitting it deep, note your best 1-2 shots with each iron. That can be the max yardages for each club which you can play to back of green because you know you will never hit it past that. 

You should gain a minimum of 1-2 GIR per round with a better "approach" to strategy 

[jaskanski]

Good topic.

1. Basics first - make sure the lie on your lofted clubs is correct. The more lofted a club is, the more critical the lie angle becomes.

2. Assess the ball lie. How it sits in relation to the ground conditions will make your decision of shot critical too. If it is sat down, you may want a steeper attack angle for example. Same goes for ball above/below your feet etc. Make sure your assessment of the lie focuses your choice of shot.

3. Assess your shot. Green and pin position, wind direction, and effect carry of specific obstacle or hazard, slope of green, run out or stop and spin etc. Make sure you picture the shot trajectory and target before committing to the club slection and required shot. It goes without saying - know your yardages for each club, but also know the yardage for intermediate clubs and partial backswings etc.

4. Make a few practice swings to get the 'feel' of the shot in hand and the one you have pictured beforehand. Know what you're going to play before you play it.

5. Stance, alignment.and ball position. All of the previous 4 factors will be for nothing if you don't get this last one right. Make sure your alignment to target is spot on to how you picture the shot.

That's pretty much it. Once you get to be methodical with your approach (pun intended) I guarantee your short game stats will improve.