L.A.B. DF3 Putters - 2024 Forum Review

[Josh Parker]

1 hour ago, Jim Shaw said:

great round... yikes, I guess I will see you next year in Nova Scotia for the National Seniors if you keep this up...

what did you order?

DF3 counterbalanced. 

[Jim Shaw]

9 minutes ago, Josh Parker said:

DF3 counterbalanced. 

fun buddy, keep me updated...

[Josh Parker]

15 minutes ago, Jim Shaw said:

fun buddy, keep me updated...

For sure!  I have spent quite a bit of time at the store putting one and have really liked it. 

[Rearviewmirror]

20mins in with the Edel laser and my mind is blown. More to come. I'm already almost sold on sending my putter back to get the head swapped.

[Rearviewmirror]

Figured this was worth it's own post 

 

[Cfhandyman]

L.A.B. DF3 long term review (50 round data):  How and why did it knock the Evnroll out of the bag and is it still there?

Part 1 -  On course first putt make percentage by distance

Part 2 – impact on game data and fitting data (to come)

 Lab rat has become a trusted and go to weapon in the bag.  How and why did it do that?  

Pre testing:  I was already a pretty good putter and it was one of the strengths of my game, averaging 31.3 putts per round (50 round data - Arccos) with an average of 5.4 one putts and 0.7 three putts per round.  This was with a well fitted putter  (Evnroll Tourstroke putter with Stability shaft and Evnroll gravity grip).  I was very intrigued with the L.A.B. DF3, as I expected it to perform well, however,  I was somewhat sceptical if the L.A.B. could actually knock the Evnroll out of the Bag.  Honestly, prior to testing, I did not expect to see much of a difference.  Thus, the criteria I set for the L.A.B. DF3 to knock the Evnroll out of the bag were as follows: 

    Versus  

1.      On course data (Arccos)

a.      A plus 0.5 or greater difference in strokes gained (Arccos data)

b.     An increase or similar one putt rate

c.      A decrease or similar three putt rate

d.     An increase or similar birdie rate

2.      Putter fitting on Quintic

a.      Could I see a difference in face angle control

b.     Compare the L.A.B. DF3, head to head against the Evnroll as well as my Scotty and Odyssey putters.

3.      Fitter recommendation – Of the 4 fitted putters tested, what would they recommend

4.      On course data – long term results

a.      Could I see a notable difference in performance with the L.A.B. DF3 over 10, 20, 30, 40 and 50 rounds

b.     The eye test (backed up by data) – The most important criteria for me, did it give me a better chance and success at making short putts (0 – 10 foot) AND give me the ability to make the occasional long putt (> 20 feet). 

Who will win out    

Methodology: I compared the first 25 rounds with the L.A.B. DF3/TPT versus the previous 25 rounds with the Evnroll Tourstroke/Stability.  Using my Arccos data, I looked at first putt make percentage by distance with a focus on ten feet and in.  I used my laser rangefinder to properly position the pin of the hole on the Arccos app and then verified after the hole that the first putt was approximately the correct distance.  In addition on the practice green, to help determine distance,  I measured out 5’, 10’, 20 and 30’ foot putts using a tape measure as part of my lag and putting drills. Similarly, I measured out 3’, 6’, 9’, 12’ and 15’ putts using a 3’ putting ruler and a tee to denote the different distances.  I have found testing various GPS devices, the most accurate ones are where someone has actually walked the course and mapped it versus a reliance on Google maps or other online maps.  As well, my home course, TPC Toronto at Osprey Valley has GPS and hole maps in their carts where someone has walked the course and I have verified the distance accuracy using my laser range finder.

Start of testing: My first practice session and first few holes on the course with the L.A.B. DF3 did not go well or as expected.  I was frequently coming up short, to the point that my wife commented, that “you putt better with the Evnroll”.  Well Lab Rat not only heard that, but threw down the gauntlet, with “we will see about that.”  Once I made a slight adjustment, Lab Rat started to really rock and roll.  There is a learning curve to using the L.A.B.  I went back and reviewed the L.A.B. training protocols. Essentially light pressure grip, ball slightly forward of center in stance, keep the hands quiet with a pendulum like stroke for best results.   Use gravity, with a smooth long stroke and let the putter do its thing and use gravity to manage rather than acceleration. 

Initial Impressions after 10 rounds:  What has Stood out:  An increase in the number of one putts to 6.7 per round, an increase in birdies to 1.9 per round, an increase in three putts.  The only anomaly is that three putts increased, but I believe this is a function of getting used to the L.A.B. with respect to distance control.  Where it is doing exceptionally well is putts from ten feet and in, plus the added confidence it has given me in knowing that I can make these putts consistently. I strongly suspect that this is due to the exceptional face control of the L.A.B. which will be tested on Quintic to validate.   

So what did the data show with respect to short putts from ten feet and in. 

First putt make percentage by distance (25 rounds, Arccos) 

It was actually a lot closer than I thought. A very very slight advantage for LAB out to five feet. A slight advantage at 6-7 feet for LAB, but a slight advantage for Evnroll at 8-9 feet and a big advantage for LAB at 10 feet.  Looking at the data closer, the LAB DF3 did exceptionally well out to 6 feet, but so did the Evnroll.  We started to see some differentiation at 7 – 8 feet and then the LAB did significantly better at 9-10 feet.  My takeaways, the Evnroll was very good out to about 8 feet and the LAB was very good out to 9 feet, but with a dip at the 7 foot mark.  From 6 feet and in, both were money.

Where I really saw a significant differentiation was in the medium to long putts.  In medium putts (10 – 20 feet), the L.A.B. was slightly better at 10.5% overall first putt make percentage and the Evnroll was consistent with a first putt make percentage of 9.1%, but the drop off was most pronounced from 16 feet and beyond.  The biggest difference was from 20 feet and beyond with the Evnroll making no putts longer than 30 feet, whereas the L.A.B. was about 5%, even from 30 feet and longer.   The longest putt made was a 68 footer that still has me shaking my head, in how did that possibly go in.  I think this is a function is that with the DF3, the ball tracks very well along its intended line owing to the excellent face control of the DF3 and the clear, crisp and immediate feedback provided by the TPT shaft.  

Medium to long first putt make percentage (25 rounds, Arccos)

Summary:  When looking at 25 rounds of first putt make percentage data for each putter, both overall were excellent.  The L.A.B. DF3 was the winner by a slight margin over the Evnroll primarily in the 0 to 7 foot putt range and from long distance (20+ feet).  What continues to impress is the precision, accuracy and consistency of the L.A.B. DF3 with the exceptional TPT shaft.  Both were excellent.  In Part 2, I will look at what did the 50 round data show in terms of my putting and impact on game as well at why the putter fitting on Quintic verified what I was seeing on course.

Edited September 25 by Cfhandyman

[Jesper2712]

5 minutes ago, Cfhandyman said:

L.A.B. DF3 long term review (50 round data):  How and why did it knock the Evnroll out of the bag and is it still there?

Part 1 -  On course first putt make percentage by distance

Part 2 – impact on game data and fitting data (to come)

 Lab rat has become a trusted and go to weapon in the bag.  How and why did it do that?  

 

Pre testing:  I was already a pretty good putter and it was one of the strengths of my game, averaging 31.3 putts per round (50 round data - Arccos) with an average of 5.4 one putts and 0.7 three putts per round.  This was with a well fitted putter  (Evnroll Tourstroke putter with Stability shaft and Evnroll gravity grip).  I was very intrigued with the L.A.B. DF3, as I expected it to perform well, however,  I was somewhat sceptical if the L.A.B. could actually knock the Evnroll out of the Bag.  Honestly, prior to testing, I did not expect to see much of a difference.  Thus, the criteria I set for the L.A.B. DF3 to knock the Evnroll out of the bag were as follows: 

    Versus  

1.      On course data (Arccos)

a.      A plus 0.5 or greater difference in strokes gained (Arccos data)

b.     An increase or similar one putt rate

c.      A decrease or similar three putt rate

d.     An increase or similar birdie rate

2.      Putter fitting on Quintic

a.      Could I see a difference in face angle control

b.     Compare the L.A.B. DF3, head to head against the Evnroll as well as my Scotty and Odyssey putters.

3.      Fitter recommendation – Of the 4 fitted putters tested, what would they recommend

4.      On course data – long term results

a.      Could I see a notable difference in performance with the L.A.B. DF3 over 10, 20, 30, 40 and 50 rounds

b.     The eye test (backed up by data) – The most important criteria for me, did it give me a better chance and success at making short puts (0 – 10 foot) AND give me the ability to make the occasional long putt (> 20 feet). 

Who will win out    

Methodology: I compared the first 25 rounds with the L.A.B. DF3/TPT versus the previous 25 rounds with the Evnroll Tourstroke/Stability.  Using my Arccos data, I looked at first putt make percentage by distance with a focus on ten feet and in.  I used my laser rangefinder to properly position the pin of the hole on the Arccos app and then verified after the hole that the first putt was approximately the correct distance.  In addition on the practice green, to help determine distance,  I measured out 5’, 10’, 20 and 30’ foot putts using a tape measure as part of my lag and putting drills. Similarly, I measured out 3’, 6’, 9’, 12’ and 15’ putts using a 3’ putting ruler and a tee to denote the different distances.  I have found testing various GPS devices, the most accurate ones are where someone has actually walked the course and mapped it versus a reliance on Google maps or other online maps.  As well, my home course, TPC Toronto at Osprey Valley has GPS and hole maps in their carts where someone has walked the course and I have verified the distance accuracy using my laser range finder.

Start of testing: My first practice session and first few holes on the course with the L.A.B. DF3 did not go well or as expected.  I was frequently coming up short, to the point that my wife commented, that “you putt better with the Evnroll”.  Well Lab Rat not only heard that, but threw down the gauntlet, with “we will see about that.”  Once I made a slight adjustment, Lab Rat started to really rock and roll.  There is a learning curve to using the L.A.B.  I went back and reviewed the L.A.B. training protocols. Essentially light pressure grip, ball slightly forward of center in stance, keep the hands quiet with a pendulum like stroke for best results.   Use gravity, with a smooth long stroke and let the putter do its thing and use gravity to manage rather than acceleration. 

Initial Impressions after 10 rounds:  What has Stood out:  An increase in the number of one putts to 6.7 per round, an increase in birdies to 1.9 per round, an increase in three putts.  The only anomaly is that three putts increased, but I believe this is a function of getting used to the L.A.B. with respect to distance control.  Where it is doing exceptionally well is putts from ten feet and in, plus the added confidence it has given me in knowing that I can make these putts consistently. I strongly suspect that this is due to the exceptional face control of the L.A.B. which will be tested on Quintic to validate.   

So what did the data show with respect to short putts from ten feet and in. 

First putt make percentage by distance (25 rounds, Arccos) 

 

It was actually a lot closer than I thought. A very very slight advantage for LAB out to five feet. A slight advantage at 6-7 feet for LAB, but a slight advantage for Evnroll at 8-9 feet and a big advantage for LAB at 10 feet.  Looking at the data closer, the LAB DF3 did exceptionally well out to 6 feet, but so did the Evnroll.  We started to see some differentiation at 7 – 8 feet and then the LAB did significantly better at 9-10 feet.  My takeaways, the Evnroll was very good out to about 8 feet and the LAB was very good out to 9 feet, but with a dip at the 7 foot mark.  From 6 feet and in, both were money.

Where I really saw a significant differentiation was in the medium to long putts.  In medium putts (10 – 20 feet), the L.A.B. was slightly better at 10.5% overall first putt make percentage and the Evnroll was consistent with a first putt make percentage of 9.1%, but the drop off was most pronounced from 16 feet and beyond.  The biggest difference was from 20 feet and beyond with the Evnroll making no putts longer than 30 feet, whereas the L.A.B. was about 5%, even from 30 feet and longer.   The longest putt made was a 68 footer that still has me shaking my head, in how did that possibly go in.  I think this is a function is that with the DF3, the ball tracks very well along its intended line owing to the excellent face control of the DF3 and the clear, crisp and immediate feedback provided by the TPT shaft.  

Medium to long first putt make percentage (25 rounds, Arccos)

Summary:  When looking at 25 rounds of first putt make percentage data for each putter, both overall were excellent.  The L.A.B. DF3 was the winner by a slight margin over the Evnroll primarily in the 0 to 7 foot putt range and from long distance (20+ feet).  What continues to impress is the precision, accuracy and consistency of the L.A.B. DF3 with the exceptional TPT shaft.  Both were excellent.  In Part 2, I will look at what did the 50 round data show in terms of my putting and impact on game as well at why the putter fitting on Quintic verified what I was seeing on course.

Wowww what a great explanation keep us updated️

[BK89]

I drove all over Ohio trying to find LAB putters to test out.  Did the online fitting.  But really wanted to try one to get the feel. Checked out a couple of Golf Galaxies, they had a limited supply, but had some to try. I spent about 30 minutes trying out different models: Mezz Max, DF 2.1, Broom Stick, and the DF3.  I was intrigued, but needed more info.

Went to another GG, different selection, including counter balanced DF3.  I think I putted there long enough to know the store clerks birthday. They offered me lunch. LOL .  After nearly 2 hours, yea...2 hours. I had come close to pulling the trigger, even comparing LAB to EvenRolls, Spyder X and Scotties. But I didn't get to try a DF3 with Accra shaft.

Fast forward two weeks later. Went to a PGA Superstore and they had about every model of LAB putter you could imagine. Narrowed it down to a Mez Max with Red head and Accra shaft and the counter balanced DF3(they didn't have the regular DF3 w/Accra).  I liked them both but the learning curve and feel of the CB was too much and I purchased the Mez Max. BTW, PGA SS has a 90 day playability trade in, which was a deal maker for me. 

Played with the MM for about 3 weeks, got the feel of it and liked it. Putted pretty well, but in the back of my head a voice kept saying, "the DF3 could be better".

So last week I made the hour and a half drive back to PGA SS in hopes they would have the Accra shafted DF3, and they did.  About 30 minutes trying it out and comparing it to the CB DF3 ( I like the length at 38 inches), I made the trade, even up for the MM I had bought, no questions, no problems.

Alittle practice at home to get the feel and off to the course the next day.  First putt, 12 foot birdie. Finished the day with 30 putts and 6 one putts as well as growing confidence in my new weapon. Two days later, playing on bigger and much faster greens, I took a step back, 34 putts and 4 three putts( all from 50 plus feet) but still had 7 one putts.

And yesterday another 30 putt day with 7 more one putts.  This putter is a keeper, even buying it off the rack.  I just couldn't wait multiple weeks to order one.  My confidence level is as high as it ever has been putting and it will just get better I'm sure.

 

[RetiredBoomer]

If I were a blade putter, they'd have had me with the Link.1 model.

I can't wait for the "normal looking" mallet prototype to come out.

Nothing wrong with the Mezz or DF3, of course,

but if I miss critical putts with an uber expensive putter that looks like those,

I wouldn't be able to stay at my club.

You don't know my gang.
 

 

[Cfhandyman]

45 minutes ago, BK89 said:

I drove all over Ohio trying to find LAB putters to test out.  Did the online fitting.  But really wanted to try one to get the feel. Checked out a couple of Golf Galaxies, they had a limited supply, but had some to try. I spent about 30 minutes trying out different models: Mezz Max, DF 2.1, Broom Stick, and the DF3.  I was intrigued, but needed more info.

Went to another GG, different selection, including counter balanced DF3.  I think I putted there long enough to know the store clerks birthday. They offered me lunch. LOL .  After nearly 2 hours, yea...2 hours. I had come close to pulling the trigger, even comparing LAB to EvenRolls, Spyder X and Scotties. But I didn't get to try a DF3 with Accra shaft.

Fast forward two weeks later. Went to a PGA Superstore and they had about every model of LAB putter you could imagine. Narrowed it down to a Mez Max with Red head and Accra shaft and the counter balanced DF3(they didn't have the regular DF3 w/Accra).  I liked them both but the learning curve and feel of the CB was too much and I purchased the Mez Max. BTW, PGA SS has a 90 day playability trade in, which was a deal maker for me. 

Played with the MM for about 3 weeks, got the feel of it and liked it. Putted pretty well, but in the back of my head a voice kept saying, "the DF3 could be better".

So last week I made the hour and a half drive back to PGA SS in hopes they would have the Accra shafted DF3, and they did.  About 30 minutes trying it out and comparing it to the CB DF3 ( I like the length at 38 inches), I made the trade, even up for the MM I had bought, no questions, no problems.

Alittle practice at home to get the feel and off to the course the next day.  First putt, 12 foot birdie. Finished the day with 30 putts and 6 one putts as well as growing confidence in my new weapon. Two days later, playing on bigger and much faster greens, I took a step back, 34 putts and 4 three putts( all from 50 plus feet) but still had 7 one putts.

And yesterday another 30 putt day with 7 more one putts.  This putter is a keeper, even buying it off the rack.  I just couldn't wait multiple weeks to order one.  My confidence level is as high as it ever has been putting and it will just get better I'm sure.

 

Good for you for going the extra mile and trying the different models to determine what you liked and works for you the best.  The fact that you could test drive the Mezz Max for a number of weeks and then trade it in for the DF3 is awesome.  It was particularly nice that you could compare standard to counterbalanced models with the Accra shaft.  Well done.  May the good putting continue.

[Rearviewmirror]

26 putts today - and a new record score. Pretty happy with my new electrical tape alignment marking

 

[CFreddie]

2 hours ago, Cfhandyman said:

L.A.B. DF3 long term review (50 round data):  How and why did it knock the Evnroll out of the bag and is it still there?

Part 1 -  On course first putt make percentage by distance

Part 2 – impact on game data and fitting data (to come)

 Lab rat has become a trusted and go to weapon in the bag.  How and why did it do that?  

 

Pre testing:  I was already a pretty good putter and it was one of the strengths of my game, averaging 31.3 putts per round (50 round data - Arccos) with an average of 5.4 one putts and 0.7 three putts per round.  This was with a well fitted putter  (Evnroll Tourstroke putter with Stability shaft and Evnroll gravity grip).  I was very intrigued with the L.A.B. DF3, as I expected it to perform well, however,  I was somewhat sceptical if the L.A.B. could actually knock the Evnroll out of the Bag.  Honestly, prior to testing, I did not expect to see much of a difference.  Thus, the criteria I set for the L.A.B. DF3 to knock the Evnroll out of the bag were as follows: 

    Versus  

1.      On course data (Arccos)

a.      A plus 0.5 or greater difference in strokes gained (Arccos data)

b.     An increase or similar one putt rate

c.      A decrease or similar three putt rate

d.     An increase or similar birdie rate

2.      Putter fitting on Quintic

a.      Could I see a difference in face angle control

b.     Compare the L.A.B. DF3, head to head against the Evnroll as well as my Scotty and Odyssey putters.

3.      Fitter recommendation – Of the 4 fitted putters tested, what would they recommend

4.      On course data – long term results

a.      Could I see a notable difference in performance with the L.A.B. DF3 over 10, 20, 30, 40 and 50 rounds

b.     The eye test (backed up by data) – The most important criteria for me, did it give me a better chance and success at making short puts (0 – 10 foot) AND give me the ability to make the occasional long putt (> 20 feet). 

Who will win out    

Methodology: I compared the first 25 rounds with the L.A.B. DF3/TPT versus the previous 25 rounds with the Evnroll Tourstroke/Stability.  Using my Arccos data, I looked at first putt make percentage by distance with a focus on ten feet and in.  I used my laser rangefinder to properly position the pin of the hole on the Arccos app and then verified after the hole that the first putt was approximately the correct distance.  In addition on the practice green, to help determine distance,  I measured out 5’, 10’, 20 and 30’ foot putts using a tape measure as part of my lag and putting drills. Similarly, I measured out 3’, 6’, 9’, 12’ and 15’ putts using a 3’ putting ruler and a tee to denote the different distances.  I have found testing various GPS devices, the most accurate ones are where someone has actually walked the course and mapped it versus a reliance on Google maps or other online maps.  As well, my home course, TPC Toronto at Osprey Valley has GPS and hole maps in their carts where someone has walked the course and I have verified the distance accuracy using my laser range finder.

Start of testing: My first practice session and first few holes on the course with the L.A.B. DF3 did not go well or as expected.  I was frequently coming up short, to the point that my wife commented, that “you putt better with the Evnroll”.  Well Lab Rat not only heard that, but threw down the gauntlet, with “we will see about that.”  Once I made a slight adjustment, Lab Rat started to really rock and roll.  There is a learning curve to using the L.A.B.  I went back and reviewed the L.A.B. training protocols. Essentially light pressure grip, ball slightly forward of center in stance, keep the hands quiet with a pendulum like stroke for best results.   Use gravity, with a smooth long stroke and let the putter do its thing and use gravity to manage rather than acceleration. 

Initial Impressions after 10 rounds:  What has Stood out:  An increase in the number of one putts to 6.7 per round, an increase in birdies to 1.9 per round, an increase in three putts.  The only anomaly is that three putts increased, but I believe this is a function of getting used to the L.A.B. with respect to distance control.  Where it is doing exceptionally well is putts from ten feet and in, plus the added confidence it has given me in knowing that I can make these putts consistently. I strongly suspect that this is due to the exceptional face control of the L.A.B. which will be tested on Quintic to validate.   

So what did the data show with respect to short putts from ten feet and in. 

First putt make percentage by distance (25 rounds, Arccos) 

 

It was actually a lot closer than I thought. A very very slight advantage for LAB out to five feet. A slight advantage at 6-7 feet for LAB, but a slight advantage for Evnroll at 8-9 feet and a big advantage for LAB at 10 feet.  Looking at the data closer, the LAB DF3 did exceptionally well out to 6 feet, but so did the Evnroll.  We started to see some differentiation at 7 – 8 feet and then the LAB did significantly better at 9-10 feet.  My takeaways, the Evnroll was very good out to about 8 feet and the LAB was very good out to 9 feet, but with a dip at the 7 foot mark.  From 6 feet and in, both were money.

Where I really saw a significant differentiation was in the medium to long putts.  In medium putts (10 – 20 feet), the L.A.B. was slightly better at 10.5% overall first putt make percentage and the Evnroll was consistent with a first putt make percentage of 9.1%, but the drop off was most pronounced from 16 feet and beyond.  The biggest difference was from 20 feet and beyond with the Evnroll making no putts longer than 30 feet, whereas the L.A.B. was about 5%, even from 30 feet and longer.   The longest putt made was a 68 footer that still has me shaking my head, in how did that possibly go in.  I think this is a function is that with the DF3, the ball tracks very well along its intended line owing to the excellent face control of the DF3 and the clear, crisp and immediate feedback provided by the TPT shaft.  

Medium to long first putt make percentage (25 rounds, Arccos)

Summary:  When looking at 25 rounds of first putt make percentage data for each putter, both overall were excellent.  The L.A.B. DF3 was the winner by a slight margin over the Evnroll primarily in the 0 to 7 foot putt range and from long distance (20+ feet).  What continues to impress is the precision, accuracy and consistency of the L.A.B. DF3 with the exceptional TPT shaft.  Both were excellent.  In Part 2, I will look at what did the 50 round data show in terms of my putting and impact on game as well at why the putter fitting on Quintic verified what I was seeing on course.

Impressive results Chris - unfortunately work travel has kept me off the golf course most weeks, but I've been able to get in a couple rounds recently.  Chewie is still performing admirably, and I couldn't be happier with how its DRASTICALLY turned around my putting performance.   

 

[Yorkie07]

I went to 2nd swing to try an Evnroll this weekend and didn't really care for it. While there I randomly picked up a DF3 without knowing anything about Lab putters. Immediately fell in love. Decided to check the forum Sat night to see if anything was posted on them and boy did i find it. I stumbled on this holy grail of threads. After 49 pages of reading, I'm in and have submitted my online fitting. Just can't decide on the grip. I use a Superstroke tour 3.0 and like the size. Deciding between the pistol and push 2 with 3 degree lean. This thread has me super excited. 

[Rearviewmirror]

22 minutes ago, Yorkie07 said:

Just can't decide on the grip. I use a Superstroke tour 3.0 and like the size. Deciding between the pistol and push 2 with 3 degree lean. This thread has me super excited. 

If at all possible, see if you can find a PGASS with the DF3 with both grips. The challenge is the pistol is standard so that's what most places have. Comparing the other press grips on a different head is unfortunately not comparable because the shaft insertion location is a different distance from the face on the DF3 vs the Mezz Max for example - which means you'll see different launch characteristics. So if you roll the pistol true, I would just order that.

And welcome to the club - time to find out you're a better putter than you think

[Yorkie07]

For those that went with the heavier option, are you happy with the weight or would you prefer the standard if you got to pick again? I putt with an Old Odyssey Dual force 990 (with 6 grams of lead added) and have a Taylormade Spider Tour Mallet. I like a putter that feels on the heavier side, but some of that was because I felt it helped me keep a feel. I tried the stock option DF3 in store and it was light but feels smooth like the weight wouldn't be needed. Just trying to get a sense of feel since a store won't have heavy try. Appreciate any insight. 

Edited September 25 by Yorkie07
Typo

[Rearviewmirror]

4 minutes ago, Yorkie07 said:

For those that went with the heavier option, are you happy with the weight or would you prefer the standard if you got to pick again? I putt with an Old Odyssey Dual force 990 (with 6 grams of lead added) and have a Taylormade Spider Tour Mallet. I like a putter that feels on the heavier side, but some of that was because I felt it helped me keep a feel. I tried the stock option DF3 in store and it was light but feels smooth like the weight wouldn't be needed. Just trying to get a sense of feel since a store won't have heavy try. Appreciate any insight. 

What you perceive as "weight" is actually torque. Consensus in the LAB forum community is that green speed is the primary determinant of heavy vs normal vs light. Normal gets the job done everywhere, light is best for exceedingly fast greens, heavy seems to shine best on extremely slow greens or folks with very slow tempo putting swings. 

[Josh Parker]

23 minutes ago, Yorkie07 said:

For those that went with the heavier option, are you happy with the weight or would you prefer the standard if you got to pick again? I putt with an Old Odyssey Dual force 990 (with 6 grams of lead added) and have a Taylormade Spider Tour Mallet. I like a putter that feels on the heavier side, but some of that was because I felt it helped me keep a feel. I tried the stock option DF3 in store and it was light but feels smooth like the weight wouldn't be needed. Just trying to get a sense of feel since a store won't have heavy try. Appreciate any insight. 

I went normal on my DF2.1 but the DF3 felt way lighter so I went with the heavy on my Counterbalance that I just ordered.  

[Cfhandyman]

On 9/24/2024 at 8:29 PM, Yorkie07 said:

For those that went with the heavier option, are you happy with the weight or would you prefer the standard if you got to pick again? I putt with an Old Odyssey Dual force 990 (with 6 grams of lead added) and have a Taylormade Spider Tour Mallet. I like a putter that feels on the heavier side, but some of that was because I felt it helped me keep a feel. I tried the stock option DF3 in store and it was light but feels smooth like the weight wouldn't be needed. Just trying to get a sense of feel since a store won't have heavy try. Appreciate any insight. 

I went with the heavier head option.  I tend to prefer a heavier head and I would pick again. Most of my rounds are on quick greens. I was originally going to go with the press grip but once I tried the pistol grip and rolled a few putts it was no contest, pistol.  Hope that helps. 

Edited September 26 by Cfhandyman

[CFreddie]

Heavy for me as well - a stock DF3 felt very light for me, so I’m very happy I went with it. I generally prefer heavier heads, which it sounds like you do as well.  

[jbern]

16 hours ago, Yorkie07 said:

I went to 2nd swing to try an Evnroll this weekend and didn't really care for it. While there I randomly picked up a DF3 without knowing anything about Lab putters. Immediately fell in love. Decided to check the forum Sat night to see if anything was posted on them and boy did i find it. I stumbled on this holy grail of threads. After 49 pages of reading, I'm in and have submitted my online fitting. Just can't decide on the grip. I use a Superstroke tour 3.0 and like the size. Deciding between the pistol and push 2 with 3 degree lean. This thread has me super excited. 

As far as grips are concerned, I just tested this two weekends ago in a PGA SS in Cleveland area where they had both textured press grips (3* & 1.5*) and the pistol grip on DF3 putters. I preferred the size of the Press II 3* grip, but the 3* shaft lean was a bit much for my eye. I would've chose the pistol grip if buying in the store that day. 

My counterbalance DF3 for this test has a Garsen Quad Tour 17" grip with no shaft lean. So, I can't give you long term review type of advice on the Press II vs Pistol grips. 

12 hours ago, Yorkie07 said:

For those that went with the heavier option, are you happy with the weight or would you prefer the standard if you got to pick again? I putt with an Old Odyssey Dual force 990 (with 6 grams of lead added) and have a Taylormade Spider Tour Mallet. I like a putter that feels on the heavier side, but some of that was because I felt it helped me keep a feel. I tried the stock option DF3 in store and it was light but feels smooth like the weight wouldn't be needed. Just trying to get a sense of feel since a store won't have heavy try. Appreciate any insight. 

I also went with the heavier head. I told the LAB fitters my favorite putter was a mallet with a 400g head weight that I added lead tape to. The LAB fitters immediately recommended the heavy option, no doubt about it.

Congrats on diving in and good luck with all of the options!!

[Old Sarge 7997]

I have favored putters with adjustable weights for a couple years, so choosing the weight of a LAB instrument had me a bit hesitant. I've tried their Mezz Max in standard and heavy and a DF3 in heavy. I feel like the extra weight helps keep me smoother in the stroke and using the bigger muscles instead of the smaller ones and getting "handsy". However, with both the DF3 and the others, I began to feel like it was getting difficult to adjust stroke speed to shorter putts with the flag in the hole, as most of my league buddies like it in. I'm afraid to hit the ball so hard that it ricochets off sideways if it doesn't hit the flag dead center and drop. Even had a few hit the flag off-center and lip out whereas they would likely have dropped without the flag being there. So, I took LAB up on their weight adjustment option and the DF3 is en route to the factory to reduced to standard and rebalanced. Meantime I am using a center-shaft PXG Battle Ready II Bat Attack with 10 extra grams in the head above standard weight and a 50 gram SuperStroke counter weight in the grip, and with both putters I grip down to where my trail hand (bottom) thumb is about 1" above the end of the grip, unless I have a cross-country lag putt, in which case I stand more upright and lengthen the pendulum accordingly.

[mpatrickriley]

On 9/24/2024 at 7:29 PM, Yorkie07 said:

For those that went with the heavier option, are you happy with the weight

I went with heavy at the CB setup. To be fair: I've not ever had my hands on any other version of the DF3 (normal length, normal weight, etc.), so I can't make an apples to apples comparison. That said, I have been very happy with my choice; the best part of my putting since getting the DF3 has been from distance, so the feel of the putter (my expectation of distance based on what I'm putting into the putt) has been exactly what I would have hoped.

[mpatrickriley]

Fellow testers: since starting the test, have any of you guys played rounds without your DF3? I've been exclusively using my L.A.B. since testing began. In the basement this morning, I was again playing around with using a line on the ball. I grabbed my Evnroll Midlock off my rack, and was surprised to see how often it started the ball with the line constantly visible (which means I'm rolling it on my line).

I'm still putting well with my DF3, but I'm wondering if I shouldn't give the Evnroll a round this year.

Tinkerers gonna tinker.

[Cfhandyman]

On 9/24/2024 at 4:33 PM, Yorkie07 said:

I went to 2nd swing to try an Evnroll this weekend and didn't really care for it. While there I randomly picked up a DF3 without knowing anything about Lab putters. Immediately fell in love. Decided to check the forum Sat night to see if anything was posted on them and boy did i find it. I stumbled on this holy grail of threads. After 49 pages of reading, I'm in and have submitted my online fitting. Just can't decide on the grip. I use a Superstroke tour 3.0 and like the size. Deciding between the pistol and push 2 with 3 degree lean. This thread has me super excited. 

On behalf of the testers, I'm glad we could provide some helpful insight and thank you for your diligence in reading all 49 pages.

The Testers (with a little help from Monty Python and the Holy Grail)  

  Haven't found it yet.

[Cfhandyman]

4 hours ago, mpatrickriley said:

Fellow testers: since starting the test, have any of you guys played rounds without your DF3? I've been exclusively using my L.A.B. since testing began. In the basement this morning, I was again playing around with using a line on the ball. I grabbed my Evnroll Midlock off my rack, and was surprised to see how often it started the ball with the line constantly visible (which means I'm rolling it on my line).

I'm still putting well with my DF3, but I'm wondering if I shouldn't give the Evnroll a round this year.

Tinkerers gonna tinker.

To be honest, heck no.  Every time, I make a ridiculously long putt (> 25 feet), Lab rat kindly reminds me, don't even think about it.  But I admit, I am curious what would happen if I took an Evnroll putter head and lie angle balanced it.  I’m also curious to try the new L.A.B. Oz.1 when it comes out, but overall, I have been very happy with the performance of the DF3.

Edited September 26 by Cfhandyman

[jbern]

2 hours ago, mpatrickriley said:

Fellow testers: since starting the test, have any of you guys played rounds without your DF3? I've been exclusively using my L.A.B. since testing began. In the basement this morning, I was again playing around with using a line on the ball. I grabbed my Evnroll Midlock off my rack, and was surprised to see how often it started the ball with the line constantly visible (which means I'm rolling it on my line).

I'm still putting well with my DF3, but I'm wondering if I shouldn't give the Evnroll a round this year.

Tinkerers gonna tinker.

I have not used my old Sub70 AL-6 for a round since the testing began. I did do a few Exputt sessions and they all went terribly. By terribly, I mean I was seeing club face angles that ranged from 3* right to 4* left and very, very, very few close to 0*. So I haven't even considered putting it in the bag for an actual round. 

Speaking of tinkering... I did get along very well with the armlock putting method, so I have considered contacting LAB about getting my Dory converted to an armlock version, but 1. I'm not sure if that's allowed for testers and 2. I'm putting well, so why change? 

[mpatrickriley]

Just now, jbern said:

Speaking of tinkering... I did get along very well with the armlock putting method, so I have considered contacting LAB about getting my Dory converted to an armlock version, but 1. I'm not sure if that's allowed for testers and 2. I'm putting well, so why change? 

I'm firmly in the beggars shouldn't be choosers (or, after initial choosing, in this case  ). That said, I do putt well (ExPutt/HackMotion/Blast measured) with my armlock Evnroll, and would very much be intrigued at the possibility of sending in my counterbalanced DF3 for an armlock version.

[Cfhandyman]

2 hours ago, jbern said:

I have not used my old Sub70 AL-6 for a round since the testing began. I did do a few Exputt sessions and they all went terribly. By terribly, I mean I was seeing club face angles that ranged from 3* right to 4* left and very, very, very few close to 0*. So I haven't even considered putting it in the bag for an actual round. 

Speaking of tinkering... I did get along very well with the armlock putting method, so I have considered contacting LAB about getting my Dory converted to an armlock version, but 1. I'm not sure if that's allowed for testers and 2. I'm putting well, so why change? 

2 hours ago, mpatrickriley said:

I'm firmly in the beggars shouldn't be choosers (or, after initial choosing, in this case  ). That said, I do putt well (ExPutt/HackMotion/Blast measured) with my armlock Evnroll, and would very much be intrigued at the possibility of sending in my counterbalanced DF3 for an armlock version.

Personally, I think both of you should ask if its a possibility for the following reasons.  Some help from the moderator(s) maybe required to make this happen.

1.   I strongly suspect both of you would have picked the armlock version of the DF3 had it been available

2.  It would make for a fascinating update as you could then compare the armlock to your experience with counterbalanced.  

3.  I suspect both of you would see an additional improvement in your putting given that you both are familiar and comfortable with armlock

4.  Worst case, is they would say no, but if you don't ask, it is a definite no.

However, what is not known is how easy or difficult it would be to convert a counterbalanced putter to an armlock version.   I say at the very least, ask if its a possibility. 

[Cfhandyman]

L.A.B. DF3 long term review (50 round data):  How and why did it knock the Evnroll out of the bag and is it still there?

Part 1 -  on course first putt make percentage by distance

Part 2 – Impact on game data and does the fitting data corroborate the on course results

Summary: After 50 rounds of play, the L.A.B. DF3 with TPT shaft remains firmly in the bag.  Overall, I have seen a 1.1 stroke improvement in my putting (strokes gained – Arccos).  The consistency, precision and accuracy of the L.A.B. DF3 owing to its exceptional face control and design won out early and continues to perform exceedingly well. This is clearly the best putter I have ever owned.   Lab rat has become a trusted and go to weapon in the bag.

In part 1, we compared the performance of the L.A.B. DF3 versus the Evnroll Tourstroke over 25 rounds of play for each looking at first putt make percentage by distance.  In that review, the L.A.B. DF3 was the winner performing slightly better than the Evnroll in the 0 to 10 feet category and significantly better at long distance from 11 feet and beyond.  Part 1 -  https://forum.mygolfspy.com/topic/64035-lab-df3-putters-2024-forum-review/?do=findComment&comment=1130250

The criteria for the L.A.B. DF3 to go into the bag were as follows:

1.      On course data

a.      A plus 0.5 or greater difference in strokes gained (Arccos data)

b.     An increase or similar one putt rate

c.      A decrease or similar three putt rate

d.     An increase or similar birdie rate

2.      Putter fitting on Quintic

a.      Could I see a difference in face angle control

b.     Compare the L.A.B. DF3, head to head against the Evnroll as well as my Scotty and Odyssey putters.

3.      Fitter recommendation – Of the 4 fitted putters tested, what would they recommend

4.      On course data – long term results

a.      Could I see a notable difference in performance with the L.A.B. DF3 over 10, 20, 30, 40 and 50 rounds

b.     The eye test (backed up by data) – The most important criteria for me, did it give me a better chance and success at making short puts (0 – 10 foot) AND give me the ability to make the occasional long putt (> 20 feet). 

So after 50 rounds of play with the L.A.B. DF3, what are the results (Arccos data)

Overall, over 50 rounds of play with both putters, I saw an increase in one putts per round from 5.4 to 6.1.  Three putts were low in both groups at 0.5 per round with no difference between the two groups.  Overall, total putts per round decreased by 1.1 strokes from 31.3 (Evnroll) to 30.2 (L.A.B. DF3) and my overall game improved by 1.3 strokes over 50 rounds of play.

I also saw an increase in birdies per round (1.7 vs 1.5) as well as a decrease in bogies (6.7 to 6 per round) and double + bogies (0.6 to 0.5).  Below are the one, two and three putts/round as well as the birdies, pars, bogies over the 50 round period for the L.A.B. DF3

Did the L.A.B. DF3 meet the criteria to go in the bag - 50 round data 

  

So the L.A.B. DF3 remains firmly in the bag and this is why.  After 50 rounds of play and extensive testing, the L.A.B. DF3 performance from ten feet and in is excellent, particularly from 7 feet and in.  Moreover, it is capable of making long putts. i.e. its not zero.  Clear winner, DF3

Key Long term Takeaways using the L.A.B. DF3

After 50 rounds with L.A.B. DF3 I have found it has resulted in a significant increase in:

a)      Confidence, particularly in short range putts (0 – 10 feet).  In the crucial 4 to 6 foot putts, I’ve gone from, I’m pretty sure I’ll make this to You’ve got this and I’m annoyed if I don’t make it

b)     Precision, accuracy and consistency. The distance control on this putter is remarkable and partially due to the extraordinary TPT putter shaft with its clear, consistent and immediate feedback. I’m no stranger to aftermarket putter shafts, having gamed a BGT Stability shaft for 5 + years.  When I have a particularly long first putt (35 – 70 feet)  my primarily goal is to get it reasonably close, ideally within 5-6 feet to give me a decent chance at two putt and avoid the dreaded three putt at all costs. With that in mind, I’m still in awe the number of times I’ve either rolled over the edge of the hole, hit the flagstick or outright holed it. leaving a very short putt or tap in for a two putt.  The dispersion is tight. Remarkable.  For more on the TPT putter shaft  TPT putter shaft for L.A.B.  – Is it the crème de la crème or simply just a very good and expensive putter shaft? https://forum.mygolfspy.com/topic/65536-tpt-putter-shaft-for-lab- –-is-it-the-crème-de-la-crème-or-simply-just-a-very-good-and-expensive-putter-shaft/

c)      Aim, point and putt It is very easy to aim this putter. My main thought, pick the right line, aim the putter, set up and let Lab Rat do its thing.  It is remarkable how well the ball tracks along the intended line.  I attribute this to the exceptional face angle control of the L.A.B.  It does exactly what it says and was designed for.  This was clearly demonstrated on putter fitting with the Quintic ball roll system.  The L.A.B. DF3 put on a clinic and proverbially slammed the door on an excellent Evnroll, Scotty Cameron and Odyssey.  It wasn’t even close.

One of my good friends, summed it up best.  “Damn Chris, you were already a pretty good putter, And then you go and get THAT (Lab rat).  It’s not fair.”  Or as my fitter extraordinaire at TXG (Club Champion Canada) Mike Martysiewicz’s (Director of Club building/fitting,) said: “Chris after watching you, seeing and evaluating the results, it is very clear and as a friend just put the L.A.B. in the bag and leave it there. It is so good for you.”  And that remains the case now after 50 rounds of play.

Lab rat has become a trusted and go to weapon in the bag.

And the Winner Is: 

Is there a Con?  Yes, in its current configuration with the TPT shaft, it is very expensive. At almost $1,000 US, that’s a lot of dineros.  For many, this is an absolute no go.  However, this is a high end premium putter that performs exceptionally well.  You are getting what you pay for.  What adds to the expense is the cost of the TPT shaft ($399).  Yes, its expensive, but it offers extraordinary performance. Given the cost, you will definitely want to get an online fitting via L.A.B. and/or in person putter fitting. L.A.B. Offers a standard, counterbalanced, armlock and broomstick version.  You will want to try this to ensure it is for you prior to spending your hard earned dollars.

The Devils advocate (contrarian) view. A one stroke difference in putting or strokes gained does not justify spending nearly $1,000 for a putter.

Pro: For most, this will be true if especially if you are a mid to high handicap player, or not competitive or budget conscious. The most common response, will be How Much???  This putter is not a magic wand. Not all will see an improvement in their putting.  There is a learning curve to using this putter and not all will be able or want to adjust.

Con: If you are in the market for a premium, high quality putter, you are spending anywhere from $350-$450, but that’s with a steel shaft.  For a premium putter shaft, you are looking at $100 (Accra) to $400 (TPT shaft) extra.  What that extra gives you is improved performance, great feel, feedback, accuracy and excellent distance control.  It is analogous to the aftermarket driver shaft that gives you an extra 20-25 yards with much better dispersion.  Is it worth it?  Only you can make that decision.  For some, yes, for others a hard no.

Starting this test, I was already at a 0 handicap level when it came to putting. An extra one stroke difference is a big deal to me, as I try to get to a 0 handicap overall.  For a mid to higher handicap player, you are most likely to see much more than a one stroke improvement.  Two of my fellow testers, saw a 2.6 and 4.5 stroke improvement in their putting, primarily in an increase in one putts and a decrease in three putts.  Hmmm, did you say 3 to 5 strokes?  Do I have your interest now.

Who is it for: if you demand/need performance, if you’re competitive or need to have the best or all of the above AND have the budget to do so. It is however, not a magic wand. It is just one piece in the equation to being a better putter. You still need solid fundamentals and practice.

Who it may not be for: If you’re used to manipulating the face with your hands, you could struggle.  If you don’t have the budget, or the additional cost does not justify the performance gains (small or otherwise). Your put off by the size, shape or center shaft.  There is a learning curve to using this putter and not all will be able or want to adjust.

Summary: After 50 rounds of play, the L.A.B. DF3 with TPT shaft remains firmly in the bag.  Overall, I have seen a 1.1 stroke improvement in my putting and 1.3 stokes improvement in my overalll game (strokes gained – Arccos).  The consistency, precision and accuracy of the L.A.B. DF3 owing to its exceptional face control won out early and continues to perform exceedingly well.  It does exactly what it says and was designed for.  This was clearly demonstrated on putter fitting with the Quintic ball roll system.  The L.A.B. DF3 put on a clinic and proverbially slammed the door on an excellent Evnroll, Scotty Cameron and Odyssey.  This is clearly the best putter I have ever owned.   Lab rat has become a trusted and go to weapon in the bag.

 

[Cfhandyman]

 

Edited September 27 by Cfhandyman