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Club Champion long build/delivery times?


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I can tell you that after reading this thread, my decision between CC and TrueSpec is getting easier.

I think the relationship with the fitter is still paramount, if you’ve had success with someone it would be hard to go somewhere else...


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I’ll tell you this... I am good friends with a manager of a CC and he had one of my clubs right at the beginning of Covid that he was supposed to swap shafts in and out of. Well, they get shutdown to

Yeah, pretty much haven’t talked since. Never understood why someone would lie to the extent he did when he’s done all of my fittings for the last five years, four of which he wasn’t with CC. Really g

Hey all - I took advantage of Club Champion's deal where the $350 full bag fitting was free as long as I bought $500 in merch. I ordered a Seemore putter and an Edel wedge from them over a month ago a

My cc experience has been quite different from the posts here. I first have had a putter fitting. Got one ordered on the Nov 8th. Received it on November 15th. Got my irons fitted on Nov 12th the majority of that order including my 5w and 7w and iron heads are in illinois waiting on nippon shafts to come in. Should be at store ready for final adjustments mid December. Did driver wood and wedge Nov. 23rd the wedges arrived from titlist today and my driver from pxg has been delayed because shaft stock shortages but will be in mid December as well. I know a lot of the custom shafts are back ordered. Most of them had to shutdown from March until September. So they have a huge supply issue at smaller club makers. New level, sub 70 also are running out of shafts and have had to delay orders. The major manufacturers have been receiving shafts and had ordered a ton before the shutdowns so they could have enough. Even when CC orders the clubs direct from oem they don't order built clubs they have the parts Shipped to illinois so that they can be built to your specs. 

 

steelhead 9°, rbz 5w, ping awr 2 bc irons, isi irons, or nike vapor irons, cleveland 52°, 58°, 64° 2 ball putter.

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On 7/31/2020 at 5:34 PM, analyticandrew said:

Hey all - I took advantage of Club Champion's deal where the $350 full bag fitting was free as long as I bought $500 in merch. I ordered a Seemore putter and an Edel wedge from them over a month ago and they're STILL not available. Conversely, I ordered two other wedges directly from Edel and they were delivered in a week. I called Seemore and they said they are getting things out in 2-4 days. Supposedly my putter was delivered to their Chicago build facility over a week ago and it still hasn't made its way to my local CC. They were also "unable to give me an update" on the Edel timing. 

I know that EVERYTHING has slowed down during COVID, but this seems SUPER excessive. I also know that Club Champion has longer than normal times because of "their process" of building things "from scratch" to ensure the highest quality standards.

Am I going crazy? 

I had a full bag fitting too and it took 8 weeks to get my gear.

Driver: Callaway Epic Flash 10.5 * Accra Tour Z TZ6 55 M3 pure 

Fairways: Callaway Mavrick 15*  19*  Accra FX 2.0-100F M3 pure  

Hybrid: Callaway Mavrick 4 Hybrid Accra FX 2.0-100H60 M3 pure  

PXG Gen 3 0311 P 5-Gap  Fujikura Pro 75 REG pure

Cleveland CG 12 RTG DSG  54/10 & 58/10  Refurbished with raw faces and legal grooves

utter: Scotty Camron Special Select Fastback 1.5  Stock pistol grip 34" w/Stablity shaft

Ball: Pro V1x 

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On 8/14/2020 at 6:05 PM, Kansas King said:

I think club fitting is important but the Club Champion model has always rubbed me the wrong way. In what world is it okay to sell a $500 driver but not offer stock shafts? It sounds like they offer a decent fitting but it will be tainted with constant up selling. If you want a good fitting, find yourself a Tom Wishon or local club fitter. Club Champion just smells of some over-leveraged private equity deal.


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I’ve heard stories. Some sound more like business men than true golf fitters. 

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On ‎11‎/‎29‎/‎2020 at 7:24 AM, RollingGreens said:

I’ve heard stories. Some sound more like business men than true golf fitters. 

I don't have a problem with people taking risks and wanting to make money but the Club Champion model is an odd one. They charge for the fitting as they should but the fees they charge on building clubs, that already have a markup, is a bit much IMO. I did a little research and it turns out Club Champion is now supported by a PE firm. That likely means aggressive growth, high balance sheet leverage, and high pressure sales. The PE firm is only a minority stakeholder which is positive but I have a feeling they are in the driver's seat. I would be way more comfortable with what they did if they were able to offer stock shaft/head combos at normal pricing. 

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On 7/31/2020 at 4:34 PM, analyticandrew said:

Hey all - I took advantage of Club Champion's deal where the $350 full bag fitting was free as long as I bought $500 in merch. I ordered a Seemore putter and an Edel wedge from them over a month ago and they're STILL not available. Conversely, I ordered two other wedges directly from Edel and they were delivered in a week. I called Seemore and they said they are getting things out in 2-4 days. Supposedly my putter was delivered to their Chicago build facility over a week ago and it still hasn't made its way to my local CC. They were also "unable to give me an update" on the Edel timing. 

I know that EVERYTHING has slowed down during COVID, but this seems SUPER excessive. I also know that Club Champion has longer than normal times because of "their process" of building things "from scratch" to ensure the highest quality standards.

Am I going crazy? 

@analyticandrew check out this thread...  care to know more how club champion conducts business... but you are not going crazy

 

Driver:taylormade-small: SIM 10.5, Graphite Design Tour AD-XC 6X 

Woods:titelist-small: TSi2 16.5, Fujikura Ventus Blue 7X

Hybrid: :ping-small: G410 3&4H, Graphite Design Tour AD-DI 95X 

Irons:titelist-small: T-100 3-PW, Nippon Modus 120 X 

Wedges: :mizuno-small: T20, DG TI S400, 50/56/60

Putter:  :EVNROLL: ER1.2 W/BGT Stability Shaft

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On 11/30/2020 at 9:10 AM, Kansas King said:

I don't have a problem with people taking risks and wanting to make money but the Club Champion model is an odd one. They charge for the fitting as they should but the fees they charge on building clubs, that already have a markup, is a bit much IMO. I did a little research and it turns out Club Champion is now supported by a PE firm. That likely means aggressive growth, high balance sheet leverage, and high pressure sales. The PE firm is only a minority stakeholder which is positive but I have a feeling they are in the driver's seat. I would be way more comfortable with what they did if they were able to offer stock shaft/head combos at normal pricing. 

@Kansas King the PE owns more than you think... I am pretty sure before hand CC debt was traded so I am sure they have been buying that... also check this link out... I explained in more detail there... but they don’t hire fitters they hire golf club sales people who maybe can fit... 

 

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Driver:taylormade-small: SIM 10.5, Graphite Design Tour AD-XC 6X 

Woods:titelist-small: TSi2 16.5, Fujikura Ventus Blue 7X

Hybrid: :ping-small: G410 3&4H, Graphite Design Tour AD-DI 95X 

Irons:titelist-small: T-100 3-PW, Nippon Modus 120 X 

Wedges: :mizuno-small: T20, DG TI S400, 50/56/60

Putter:  :EVNROLL: ER1.2 W/BGT Stability Shaft

Ball:  :titelist-small: ProV1X-Optic Yellow

Bag: :ping-small: Pioneer

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On ‎12‎/‎4‎/‎2020 at 1:13 AM, Manimal26 said:

@Kansas King the PE owns more than you think... I am pretty sure before hand CC debt was traded so I am sure they have been buying that... also check this link out... I explained in more detail there... but they don’t hire fitters they hire golf club sales people who maybe can fit... 

]0

I've seen a number of bad experiences with MGS and other sites. However, I think getting fit on a proper launch monitor with someone who is only looking a charts is probably better than guessing at a golf shop. However, I really think the problem with Club Champion is their business model is essentially trying to fit a square peg in a round hole. They can get away with this to a certain degree because getting properly fit is complicated and most people aren't willing to go down the golf equipment rabbit hole like many of us on MGS. I'm sure the numbers for CC work out nicely on a PowerPoint in front of a group of managers at a PE firm. However, I think the number one sin they commit is not offering stock options at the same cost as what you can order them for from OEMs. If the golf market sold shaft and heads separately normally, this would be different but when was the last time anyone walked into a golf shop that had heads on one rack and shafts on another? I know I never have. I would be on board with their business model if the specialized in component clubs like those from Maltby and Hireko. However, charging someone $2000 for a $1000 stock set of clubs with DG S300 shafts is disingenuous. Another problem with CC that probably shows up the most is slow build times. It sounds like they don't really have their supply chain set up to support their business. This was problem pre-COVID and COVID amplified the lack of relationships they have with suppliers. This also supports my theory that the PE firm is pushing for fast growth and that makes it difficult for the businesses admin and support functions to keep up. If someone who knows of a PE firm investing in growing businesses in a stable and healthy way let me know because I have yet to see it. 

Anyone reading this who is unsure of CC, I would recommend searching online and finding a local fitter. A fitter doesn't need a $20K launch monitor to fit you really well. I'm sure there are some good CCs out there that have a good fitter. However, if you're going to spend that level of money on golf, you may as well find a local guy because CC is likely the most expensive fitter in town. Wishon has a good network of fitters that can help you and if you are located in a bigger city there is likely a golf shop with experienced fitters and good launch monitors that are going to offer stock OEM offerings.

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13 hours ago, Kansas King said:

I've seen a number of bad experiences with MGS and other sites. However, I think getting fit on a proper launch monitor with someone who is only looking a charts is probably better than guessing at a golf shop. However, I really think the problem with Club Champion is their business model is essentially trying to fit a square peg in a round hole. They can get away with this to a certain degree because getting properly fit is complicated and most people aren't willing to go down the golf equipment rabbit hole like many of us on MGS. I'm sure the numbers for CC work out nicely on a PowerPoint in front of a group of managers at a PE firm. However, I think the number one sin they commit is not offering stock options at the same cost as what you can order them for from OEMs. If the golf market sold shaft and heads separately normally, this would be different but when was the last time anyone walked into a golf shop that had heads on one rack and shafts on another? I know I never have. I would be on board with their business model if the specialized in component clubs like those from Maltby and Hireko. However, charging someone $2000 for a $1000 stock set of clubs with DG S300 shafts is disingenuous. Another problem with CC that probably shows up the most is slow build times. It sounds like they don't really have their supply chain set up to support their business. This was problem pre-COVID and COVID amplified the lack of relationships they have with suppliers. This also supports my theory that the PE firm is pushing for fast growth and that makes it difficult for the businesses admin and support functions to keep up. If someone who knows of a PE firm investing in growing businesses in a stable and healthy way let me know because I have yet to see it. 

Anyone reading this who is unsure of CC, I would recommend searching online and finding a local fitter. A fitter doesn't need a $20K launch monitor to fit you really well. I'm sure there are some good CCs out there that have a good fitter. However, if you're going to spend that level of money on golf, you may as well find a local guy because CC is likely the most expensive fitter in town. Wishon has a good network of fitters that can help you and if you are located in a bigger city there is likely a golf shop with experienced fitters and good launch monitors that are going to offer stock OEM offerings.

@Kansas King if you only new how bad CC really operates... if you care to know I am happy to pick this up on a DM... but you are educated enough to avoid this trap... but you are right on track with your assumptions... 

I won’t digress any further, that being said good shops will and should exshaust all the no charge options before going to upcharge... also let’s say you are going with t-100 and want TI x100 from Titleist they are $20 a shaft and at CC they have $40... if you read between the lines you will catch what I am getting at...

 

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Driver:taylormade-small: SIM 10.5, Graphite Design Tour AD-XC 6X 

Woods:titelist-small: TSi2 16.5, Fujikura Ventus Blue 7X

Hybrid: :ping-small: G410 3&4H, Graphite Design Tour AD-DI 95X 

Irons:titelist-small: T-100 3-PW, Nippon Modus 120 X 

Wedges: :mizuno-small: T20, DG TI S400, 50/56/60

Putter:  :EVNROLL: ER1.2 W/BGT Stability Shaft

Ball:  :titelist-small: ProV1X-Optic Yellow

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5 hours ago, Manimal26 said:

@Kansas King if you only new how bad CC really operates... if you care to know I am happy to pick this up on a DM... but you are educated enough to avoid this trap... but you are right on track with your assumptions... 

I won’t digress any further, that being said good shops will and should exshaust all the no charge options before going to upcharge... also let’s say you are going with t-100 and want TI x100 from Titleist they are $20 a shaft and at CC they have $40... if you read between the lines you will catch what I am getting at...

 

I think I'm picking up on what you're saying. I don't think what they are doing is new by any means. They are trying to take advantage of the nebulous and challenging golf equipment market. Many people who can afford to golf don't care if a new set costs $4000 instead of $1800 if they know they will feel confident with the end product. CC is just trying to leverage the fitting trend as much as possible. I'm not a fan of how they are doing it but I don't want to paint a broad brush and say all national fitters are bad because that would be incorrect. I just think that CC in particular is scummy.

However, is the PE firm pushing CC the root cause of the issues we think are wrong with their business model? I would argue that the large OEM marketing departments are still the root cause of so many of the issues in the golf market. I've watched so many videos of people reviewing golf clubs that claim to be "independent" that do nothing more than spew marketing talking points. I think most people should look at the last 20 years of golf new golf equipment and try to be honest if their performance gains (if any) were actually the result of the equipment. I do believe equipment has improved but not like most golfers would lead you to believe. This is why I like the figures Maltby posts regarding the MPF in irons and why I like the measurements MGS posts in their tests. It's the few widely available sources that actually get to facts and cut through the marketing wank. So, what does this have to do with CC? Whether by design or not, the major OEM marketing departments have made the golf equipment market so convoluted that people are willing to pay double for a new set of clubs just in an attempt to be confident with what they are buying. CC is a symptom of the bigger problem with golf equipment.

Wishon is/was a passionate fitter that built a small empire in the custom world. He created a shaft bend profile software that could be used to compare the bend profiles of the shafts on the markets. Manufacturers used to send him shaft for measurement and he would update the info on the software, similar to Maltby's MPF system but for shafts. What did shaft manufacturers do when they found out fitters were using cheaper shafts with the same bend profiles as expensive shafts? They stopped sending shafts in for measurement. Two shafts with similar bend profiles regardless of price and construction are going to likely perform similarly. Shaft companies don't want that kind of information readily available out their and companies like CC aren't going to help with that. CC is interested in selling expensive sets because they will obviously make more money assuming the margins are about the same regardless of price point. Companies like CC lead to the self-perpetuating cycle of misinformation because if the absolute facts about golf equipment were the main talking points, the "magic" of golf equipment would be gone and suddenly price point becomes the talking point. This issue is not exclusive to golf but golf is one of the biggest purveyors of it.

All these issues aside, I am thankful that we have options as golfer. Maltby, Hireko, Sub70, Ben Hogan, Haywood, etc. all offer good options at a more appropriate price point. Luckily, the eastern equipment manufacturers aren't all strictly beholden to the large OEMs. Do I truly care if someone gets hosed for five grand at CC, not really, it was their choice. However, I don't like seeing the stories of people getting horrible fittings or poor service given what they pay.

Moral of the story is that I think CC is a symptom of the current environment. Big OEM marketing departments will do their best to keep golf equipment as something magical and people will continue throwing money to get that magic. Hopefully MGS continues to try and cut through that layer of "magic" and keep golfers informed about real improvements that are being made. 

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Just a quick question, can I go into CC and get my specs and then order the clubs myself from somewhere else? 

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:callaway-small: 4 Hybrid: Epic Flash
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1 hour ago, Nateyeight said:

Just a quick question, can I go into CC and get my specs and then order the clubs myself from somewhere else? 

Absolutely. Pay for the fitting and find another outlet to order the clubs. The fittings are pretty solid and you don't have to purchase the clubs from them. They email you the results and fitting prescription 

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On February 8th 2021 I was fitted and purchased several clubs from club champions White Plains , NY location. This purchase included a driver which costs over 950 dollars. Today more than six weeks later I’ve still not received anything. More importantly there has been zero follow up and zero information provide as to where my order is. Club champion has forced a confrontation at every turn in order to get any information. To say they are unprofessional is an understatement. Club champion provides no bargains when getting clubs but that’s ok if along with the high price you also get quality service but at club champion they don’t know the meaning of the word service. They are quick to get your money after which they couldn’t care less about your order. There are many other options out there for club fitting. Take my advice and seek out any of them because they couldn’t possibly be worse.

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26 minutes ago, B, Maini said:

On February 8th 2021 I was fitted and purchased several clubs from club champions White Plains , NY location. This purchase included a driver which costs over 950 dollars. Today more than six weeks later I’ve still not received anything. More importantly there has been zero follow up and zero information provide as to where my order is. Club champion has forced a confrontation at every turn in order to get any information. To say they are unprofessional is an understatement. Club champion provides no bargains when getting clubs but that’s ok if along with the high price you also get quality service but at club champion they don’t know the meaning of the word service. They are quick to get your money after which they couldn’t care less about your order. There are many other options out there for club fitting. Take my advice and seek out any of them because they couldn’t possibly be worse.

sorry to hear about your bad experience. where are you in NY? if you’re in westchester, the 45 minute drive to Pete’s Golf in Mineola is well worth it. 

small, independent shop of great fitters and club builders. they’re not pushy at all on up charges and are more than happy to send you home with a demo club so you can make an informed decision before you buy

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  • 2 weeks later...
On 3/18/2021 at 10:31 AM, B, Maini said:

On February 8th 2021 I was fitted and purchased several clubs from club champions White Plains , NY location. This purchase included a driver which costs over 950 dollars. Today more than six weeks later I’ve still not received anything. More importantly there has been zero follow up and zero information provide as to where my order is. Club champion has forced a confrontation at every turn in order to get any information. To say they are unprofessional is an understatement. Club champion provides no bargains when getting clubs but that’s ok if along with the high price you also get quality service but at club champion they don’t know the meaning of the word service. They are quick to get your money after which they couldn’t care less about your order. There are many other options out there for club fitting. Take my advice and seek out any of them because they couldn’t possibly be worse.

So i have had the same experience here in NJ. Went to the cherry hill location feb 9th. Ordered sim2 max irons with nippon modus 120 shafts, which are offered stock through taylormade. Fitter tells me probably 2 weeks but check they website. Get home check out their website, pretty much says custom clubs ship approximayely feb 16th. So i say OK he was right. Its now March 29th. Ive been give 5 different dates so far as to when my clubs will arrive and still have nothing other than they should be here this week. No updates nothing, everytime i call its the same runaround. Ill never use them again

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1 hour ago, Wsheehan said:

So i have had the same experience here in NJ. Went to the cherry hill location feb 9th. Ordered sim2 max irons with nippon modus 120 shafts, which are offered stock through taylormade. Fitter tells me probably 2 weeks but check they website. Get home check out their website, pretty much says custom clubs ship approximayely feb 16th. So i say OK he was right. Its now March 29th. Ive been give 5 different dates so far as to when my clubs will arrive and still have nothing other than they should be here this week. No updates nothing, everytime i call its the same runaround. Ill never use them again

You get fitted by mark or Jon ? Mark was pretty good and honest .. sucks about the wait time, pre covid I had like a 2 week wait time for shafts but Mark kept me updated and was responsive pretty quickly .. hope you get them soon ... 

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  • 1 month later...
Posted (edited)

Here is my email to CC today, Williamsville, NY

DEAR...
Getting a little frustrated on my end.  According to our email and texts:
 
4/5/21- placed order
4/7 - per text, shafts and heads in, no wedges yet
4/27 - waiting on grips, something as simple as a holdup on grips could have been communicated to me a lot sooner, not a 3 week delay.  I feel like if I had not contacted you I would not have been informed of this.
5/5 - text - "Looking Close"
5/10 - email, target delivery date of 5/24 given to me
5/31 - will be exactly 8 weeks since order.
 
I KNOW this is not your fault, but you are my contact.  I feel I have been more than patient and 8 weeks should have been enough time considering the builders have had everything they needed since 4/27. 
 
I am considering canceling my order if I do not get a tracking number by Tuesday 6/1.
 
Edited by Droy58
Omission
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3 minutes ago, Droy58 said:

Here is my email to CC today, Williamsville, NY

DEAR...
Getting a little frustrated on my end.  According to our email and texts:
 
4/521- placed order
4/7 - per text, shafts and heads in, no wedges yet
4/27 - waiting on grips, something as simple as a holdup on grips could have been communicated to me a lot sooner, not a 3 week delay.  I feel like if I had not contacted you I would not have been informed of this.
5/5 - text - "Looking Close"
5/10 - email, target delivery date of 5/24 given to me
5/31 - will be exactly 8 weeks since order.
 
I KNOW this is not your fault, but you are my contact.  I feel I have been more than patient and 8 weeks should have been enough time considering the builders have had everything they needed since 4/27. 
 
I am considering canceling my order if I do not get a tracking number by Tuesday 6/1.
 

I can understand your frustration,  but most companies aren't delivering anything in 8 weeks.  The biggest holdup seems to be grips as none are available.  I am guessing they will tell you that they won't ship by Tuesday 

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Hybrids:  :titelist-small: 816H1 19* set at 18* w/KBS Tour Graphite Hybrid Prototype
                :titelist-small: 915H  21*  w/KBS Tour Graphite Hybrid Prototype
               :titelist-small: 915H 24*  w/KBS Tour Graphite Hybrid Prototype
Irons:      :honma:TR20V 6-11 w/Vizard TR20-85 Graphite
Wedge:  :cleveland-small: 588 54-14, 58-12
Putter:  Bellum Winmore 787

Backups:  :bobby-grace-1: 6330, :taylormade-small:TM-180

 

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After contacting CC to get an update, they told me grips I selected were out of stock and they were waiting, so I changed to an in-stock grip on 4/27.

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