DeChambeau doesn't hit his 8 iron 200 yards

[cnosil]

3 minutes ago, RetiredBoomer said:

As for the interest in clubs, that's almost a separate interest from playing.
A lot of people won't understand that, but why should they if they don't care?

 

IMO if it was an interest in clubs it would be more in line with what has been posted and understanding design and how design influences the club and not saying clubs need to come in this specific loft configuration.   
I look at putters in this way.  I try to understand the design characteristics and manufacturing processes of putters and how that influences performance.  I don’t say that putters should look or be built in a specific way.  With a putter the same loft will perform differently based on design. 

[RetiredBoomer]

7 minutes ago, cnosil said:

But what does knowing the loft do to improve your performance?   I associate the random number/label on the bottom of my club with a distance range.  Why do you need to want to know the loft?  How does it make you a better golfer?   

It does NOTHING to improve my game---obviously.

It's just something that I like to know.
The topic is simply more interesting to me than most.

I'm not an engineer, but I'm interested in club design (mostly the cosmetic aspect).
I'm not an architect, but I'm interested in course design.

None of it has any impact on my playing.
They're just interesting subjects to me on their own.

 

Edited June 20 by RetiredBoomer

[cnosil]

2 minutes ago, RetiredBoomer said:

It does NOTHING to improve my game---obviously.

It's just something that I like to know.
The topic is simply more interesting to me than most.

I'm not an engineer, but I'm interested in club design.
I'm not an architect, but I'm interested in course design.

None of it has any impact on my playing.
They're just interesting subjects to me on their own.

 

So why take the position of lofts need to be this and not this is how design influences loft?      This is the main point of all the loft jacking discussions.  
 

maybe 3d printing will be the greatest thing ever and allow people to custom print whatever designation they want on the clubs.   I can hear it now….your buddy asks what club did you hit and you respond I hit my “sh*tty” club.

[tjstrait2]

These boo birds are probably great at parties....

My clubs are custom, the shafts are trimmed, the lie is adjusted on my long irons. My 5 iron is my 5 iron. It's dialed in for me. Is someone else uses my clubs they're going to struggle. 

 

If the "somewhere around average" player understood this and actually went for a fitting and spent a little extra on getting their clubs dialed in they would see so much improvement. They would no longer be standard out of the box specs but we're not all standard out of the box sizes. 

It's your equipment for a reason.

[ILMgolfnut]

Personally I wish they stamped lofts on the clubs. I can't find the specs for the clubs I replaced in 2022, so I have no idea (although I strongly suspect) that my 7 iron then had the same (or more) loft as my 9 iron now. But that's just me; YMMV.

Shaft flex also affects height. So does distribution of weight in the clubhead. A lot of weight in the sole = more height, which is a lot of the difference between traditional blades and so-called game improvement or super game improvement irons.

I vaguely remember hitting 5-irons (occasionally) 150+ back in the day. If I really catch one now, I can hit my current 5 150. So the lofts have just adapted to my decreasing strength.

As for the disappearance of long irons, that seems to be due to hybrids and higher-loft fairway woods. I don't carry a 4i any more but my 7w does the same work and it's a lot easier to hit.

Getting back to OP, what Bryson hits on 200-yard approach shots has no relevance to me any more than some basher with a 5-degree driver. Neither one is playing the same game I am. I'm steering around obstacles, they're bashing it over them.

[jbern]

I skimmed through a few comments and didn’t see this mentioned. So I’ll add to the chaos a bit 

A few years ago, I watched a video of Bryson getting fit for irons and he numbers his irons based on spin rate. For example, he wants his 7i to spin at 6700rpm and his 8i to spin at 7800 rpm.  He uses loft and weighting (if available) to achieve that desired spin rate for his swing. He said that the distance gapping and flight is all taken care of if the spin is correct. 

Hopefully that makes sense. I wasn’t able to find the video that I saw on a quick search. If I find it I’ll edit this post. 

[TK_]

I’s much rather lofts be on clubs versus the club number, but that’s just me

[Byrnzee]

I'm glad @Philpug mentioned the nicknames he actually does have for his clubs!

I thought this was a cool breakdown that they did during the US Open. I won't contribute much more since others are much more knowledgeable on this subject. It does have me thinking about what I would nickname each of my clubs though...

[Jim Shaw]

wow, I don't know how I missed all this excitement..but here I go...

even at my competitive level, in competition, Sr. men's amateur events at the highest level in Canada, no one and I mean no one ever talks about "what club did you hit" oh and it is against the rules by the way to tell them, I can go into that on another thread. 

For us it is all about carry distance and gapping. I have my Takomo irons set at the same loft "and lie" as my Miura's before them, and yes I get them checked twice a year as the Takomo are beautifully soft so they can, but haven't yet, change their loft, which buggers up my carry distances.

Let's talk about "carry distance" it is an evolution in everyone that wants to play competitive golf at a high level, it is not achieved by many because there are many other parts of the swing that must be dialled in before you are consistent enough to hit the carry distance on a regular basis.

Let's talk about "gapping", this means and this is my example, I know my 56 degree full shot carries 80 -yards, 50 degree -100 yards, PW- 120. 9 -130, etc etc. so what it does is put some level of confidence into the swing and takes out one aspect of guess work, of course golf is played outdoors and is a constant series of adjustments but it helps me determine which club to use, say in a 10 MPH wind into my face, cross wind etc..

As @RickyBobby_PRhas mentioned the only number that is important is knowing your carry distance. 

In social golf some golfers will ask me "what did you hit there" and I will say "I hit my 160 club or my 150 club, never the number on my club unless I really want to mess with their minds lol...

[cnosil]

16 minutes ago, TK_ said:

I’s much rather lofts be on clubs versus the club number, but that’s just me

45 minutes ago, ILMgolfnut said:

Personally I wish they stamped lofts on the clubs. 

Help me understand,   What does loft provide you that the random number doesn’t?   What do you do if the actual loft doesn’t match the stamped loft?  

[TK_]

8 minutes ago, cnosil said:

Help me understand,   What does loft provide you that the random number doesn’t?   What do you do if the actual loft doesn’t match the stamped loft?  

Loft exposes the companies for pushing false narratives for “longest ever” when all they’re doing is cranking it down the loft. It would also provide the buyers the understanding of what they’re actually hitting. When I switched clubs I was actually pissed the lofts were do drastically different. I would prefer to say, my 27 degree did x, my 24 degree did y, etc. Which is what I say, to my newer golf friends I say, this is basically your x even though it is my y. 

[Jim Shaw]

1 minute ago, TK_ said:

Loft exposes the companies for pushing false narratives for “longest ever” when all they’re doing is cranking it down the loft. It would also provide the buyers the understanding of what they’re actually hitting. When I switched clubs I was actually pissed the lofts were do drastically different. I would prefer to say, my 27 degree did x, my 24 degree did y, etc. Which is what I say, to my newer golf friends I say, this is basically your x even though it is my y. 

my first introduction to this kind of marketing was and I am guessing, around 1979, 1980 when calloway came out with Big Bertha irons. prior to that we would always socially talk about "what we hit" into par 3's or whatever... so my point is, for me, this has been known for 45 years, @cnosil or @RickyBobby_PR might know when Calloway launched these but it has been a long time from the marketing for average golfers. 

[Wheelieb]

I mean, that’s fine. Kyle Berkshire hit an 8 iron 302. Video for proof

 

 

[funkyjudge]

On 6/16/2024 at 3:13 PM, Hook DeLoft said:

He hits a 6 iron with 8 stamped on it 200 yards.  Still pretty impressive but not an 8 iron.  By the way, he hits a strong lofted 5 iron with 7 stamped on it.  It's more impressive that his club head speed allows him to hit a 30 degree club so high.

I don’t care what you think; that is still an 8-iron according to the standards assigned to that set of irons by that specific manufacturer. When I began playing golf, an 8-iron generally had 40* of loft. I currently have two sets of “ gamer” irons (Cobra Forged Tec X and Maltby TS1 IM). The Cobras have an 8-iron that WAS at 32* loft when I got the irons about 2.5 years ago (I have it bent to about 33.5* loft), and the Maltby TS1 IM has an 8-iron loft of 36*. These are still both 8-irons by those manufacturers’ standards for those iron models.

The difference between the two iron sets referenced above is that, with my 80 to 84 MPH iron swing, I get about 17 yards more distance with the Cobra 8-iron than I do with the Maltby 8-iron. However, they are still both 8-irons  based on the standards established by the manufacturers for those specific iron sets.  I just have to carry an additional wedge and usually drop the 5-iron when I am playing the Cobra irons.

[RickyBobby_PR]

1 hour ago, ILMgolfnut said:

Personally I wish they stamped lofts on the clubs. I can't find the specs for the clubs I replaced in 2022, so I have no idea (although I strongly suspect) that my 7 iron then had the same (or more) loft as my 9 iron now. But that's just me; YMMV.

Sounds like you aren’t looking in the right places. I’ve found specs for clubs that are almost 10 years old.

1 hour ago, ILMgolfnut said:

Shaft flex also affects height

Shaft flex has no impact on height. Shafts have an affect on feel for some and non for others. Shafts themselves have an affect on dynamic loft. The dynamic loft delivered along with the swing path, face to path and face angle combined with swing speed determine height, spin, apex and descent angle 

 

[RickyBobby_PR]

11 minutes ago, TK_ said:

Loft exposes the companies for pushing false narratives for “longest ever” when all they’re doing is cranking it down the loft. It would also provide the buyers the understanding of what they’re actually hitting. When I switched clubs I was actually pissed the lofts were do drastically different. I would prefer to say, my 27 degree did x, my 24 degree did y, etc. Which is what I say, to my newer golf friends I say, this is basically your x even though it is my y. 

This is so far from being correct. It’s far beyond what they are doing. 
 

Why did it matter what the lofts were? You still knew how far each one went 

[funkyjudge]

3 hours ago, RetiredBoomer said:

You seem to be a little upset about it, Ricky.
I'm just somebody describing something different that I would have liked.

It really isn't a big deal.

I do have to disagree about ignoring the design aspect when I'm not advocating changing ANYTHING about the design except for the number stamping....even if it's only for me.  The engineers know how to build the clubs.  I don't pretend to know that.

Perhaps I haven't expressed myself well enough.

 

I say “just forget about the numbers stamped on your irons and know how far you hit every iron in your bag”. If those irons perform as desired for you, giving you the desired trajectories and descent angles, you’re good to go.

[funkyjudge]

10 minutes ago, RickyBobby_PR said:

Sounds like you aren’t looking in the right places. I’ve found specs for clubs that are almost 10 years old.

Shaft flex has no impact on height. Shafts have an affect on feel for some and non for others. Shafts themselves have an affect on dynamic loft. The dynamic loft delivered along with the swing path, face to path and face angle combined with swing speed determine height, spin, apex and descent angle 

 

Ricky, if I could give that post multiple fires, I would do that!  Those points are dead on the mark.

Edited June 20 by funkyjudge

[RickyBobby_PR]

1 minute ago, funkyjudge said:

I say “just forget about the numbers stamped on your irons and know how far you hit every iron in your bag”. If those irons perform as desired for you, giving you the desired trajectories and descent angles, you’re good to go.

Same. I have a good idea what the club is doing during the fitting even if I’m not looking at the monitor or having the fitter give me the info. I then get additional data when on the range and course and know my distances pretty quickly. What loft is associated with a club doesn’t matter until I start setting my wedges up and use the 9i to give me a starting point for my first wedge including if I want to use a specialty wedge vs a set wedge.

[Wheelieb]

The same length shafts in all of his irons also helps. Being stronger also helps. He’s also super sciency(this isn’t a word) when it comes to golf. Just because his irons are loft jacked, does not mean he doesn’t hit his 8 iron 200 yards. The manufacturer has their set of irons with their specs for them. An 8 iron in his are probably closer to like a 6 iron in some other manufacturers sets. 

[RickyBobby_PR]

1 minute ago, funkyjudge said:

Ricky, if I could give that post multiple fires, I would do that!  Those points are dead on the mark.

With all the information out on the internet from shaft manufacturers, people like tutleman, Wishon and a number of other renowned fitters it’s amazing how much old thoughts and perceptions still exist after having been debunked years ago

[cnosil]

30 minutes ago, TK_ said:

Loft exposes the companies for pushing false narratives for “longest ever” when all they’re doing is cranking it down the loft. It would also provide the buyers the understanding of what they’re actually hitting. When I switched clubs I was actually pissed the lofts were do drastically different. I would prefer to say, my 27 degree did x, my 24 degree did y, etc. Which is what I say, to my newer golf friends I say, this is basically your x even though it is my y. 

Why not just say you hit your 150 or whatever distance club?  And what prevents you from saying my X loft club did whatever it does?
 

The narrative has always been pushed.  1954 ad that says these irons are longer.   lofts have decreased since the beginning of golf and it isn’t a new thing.  

 

 

Edited June 20 by cnosil

[cnosil]

16 minutes ago, RickyBobby_PR said:

Sounds like you aren’t looking in the right places. I’ve found specs for clubs that are almost 10 years old.

 

Here is a site that goes back to early 2000s : https://www.golfclubspec.com/.  Like you said finding specs is t that hard.

[ILMgolfnut]

OK, I was imprecise. Shaft flex doesn't matter, but kick point does. Also, the irons I was trying to find the specs for are well over 10 years old (I had taken my prolonged break from golf 20 years ago, and the clubs were before that) and the manufacturer is long since out of business.

[ILMgolfnut]

9 minutes ago, cnosil said:

Here is a site that goes back to early 2000s : https://www.golfclubspec.com/.  Like you said finding specs is t that hard.

I had not found this site, but it didn't matter. My irons aren't listed there either.

[golfr]

On 6/16/2024 at 3:13 PM, Hook DeLoft said:

He hits a 6 iron with 8 stamped on it 200 yards.  Still pretty impressive but not an 8 iron.  By the way, he hits a strong lofted 5 iron with 7 stamped on it.  It's more impressive that his club head speed allows him to hit a 30 degree club so high.

 

 

 

So using your logic, why would he want an 8 iron with 8 degrees more loft if he already hits his "delofted" 8 iron so high?  He'd also probably end up with 15000 RPM of spin.

It's not about the loft, it's about the trajectory.  

[TK_]

37 minutes ago, RickyBobby_PR said:

This is so far from being correct. It’s far beyond what they are doing. 
 

Why did it matter what the lofts were? You still knew how far each one went 

So, a 4 iron at 24 degree versus a 5 iron at 21 degree isn’t hustling the uninformed buyers? It absolutely is. “Far from correct”, think again man. Especially when they tell you “these are top of the line, look how much further you hit ours.” I think you are not considering the misinformed or uninformed. Golf boomed during Covid. There is more in this lane than ever before. Understand, this is just to protect the misinformed or uninformed from wasting their money on a product that won’t help their game. That is all.

Edited June 20 by TK_

[TK_]

26 minutes ago, cnosil said:

Why not just say you hit your 150 or whatever distance club?  And what prevents you from saying my X loft club did whatever it does?
 

The narrative has always been pushed.  1954 ad that says these irons are longer.   lofts have decreased since the beginning of golf and it isn’t a new thing.  

 

 

“What did you hit there?”

”My 150 club.”

”What’s your 150 club?” 
 

Do you think they won’t follow-up with the very next question? Makes no sense. I prevent from saying loft because more people know their club. So, when I say I hit my 7, but it is more like your 6, I find that easier for everyone to understand for all. 

Edited June 20 by TK_

[cnosil]

48 minutes ago, TK_ said:

“What did you hit there?”

”My 150 club.”

”What’s your 150 club?” 
 

Do you think they won’t follow-up with the very next question? Makes no sense. I prevent from saying loft because more people know their club. So, when I say I hit my 7, but it is more like your 6, I find that easier for everyone to understand for all. 

I wouldn’t because it gives the information I wanted…distance.  And when I answer that way people don’t ask me for the number on the bottle m of my club.   Saying I played it x distance is all the person really needs to know.  The club number or loft doesn’t tell you how I hit it.   

Edited June 20 by cnosil

[Hook DeLoft]

50 minutes ago, golfr said:

 

 

 

So using your logic, why would he want an 8 iron with 8 degrees more loft if he already hits his "delofted" 8 iron so high?  He'd also probably end up with 15000 RPM of spin.

It's not about the loft, it's about the trajectory.  

Or he could stamp 6 on the club with 30 degrees of loft and still have the same trajectory, spin and distance.