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Shaft Q&A with Fujikura - We're here to answer your questions!


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7 hours ago, TENBUCK said:

Why can't there be a universal flex rating by all manufacturers so that a A-L-M-S-XS be the same with all? I'm sure some of it has to do with marketing, but to the consumer it would be of benefit and to the manufacturer. I might like a TT but willing to try a Fuji if the specs were closely identical. 

Is it because if there was a standardization it would lead to commoditizing (low/no differentiation within) the shaft industry and significantly decrease margins? i.e., do standardized screws or nuts & bolts have pricing power? 

 

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So I have a driver shaft from 2018 and 2019. Both are the same model weight ie: supposedly identical. But the 2019 shaft just seemed to be less controllable than the 2018 shaft. How can I trust getting fit when there can be such differences between supposedly identical shafts?


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Richard father of 7 and ex army enlisted then officer. Love outdoors 

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1 hour ago, conted said:

Is it because if there was a standardization it would lead to commoditizing (low/no differentiation within) the shaft industry and significantly decrease margins? i.e., do standardized screws or nuts & bolts have pricing power? 

 

I get it, it's the marketing, like I said. With all of the different shafts out there, past, present and future with varying names to go along with them, somewhere along the line there has to be some identical shafts out there from different manufacturers. 

I total understand different materials that go into a shaft and different processes as well as resin, but it's still amazing.

:ping-small: G400 MAX  Ping Tour 65

:cobra-small: FW 15* King F-7 :Fuji: PRO-65

:ping-small: G400 Hybrid Alta CB-70

PXG 0211 5-SW Mitsubishi MMT Graphite

:titelist-small: AP1 52* SW TT XP-95

:taylormade-small: MG 58* TT DG Wedge

Scotty Cameron Custom welded LN 

Grips- GP MCC+4

 

 

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1 hour ago, jpretor said:

 One of the few Brands that give you EI profiles and their values... this is one of the most accurate ways to show a shaft stiffness. EI profiles or frequencies should be the standard, not LARSX.

I don't care if it's profiles, frequencies or LARSX, it should be standardized, but I don't think that will ever happen.

:ping-small: G400 MAX  Ping Tour 65

:cobra-small: FW 15* King F-7 :Fuji: PRO-65

:ping-small: G400 Hybrid Alta CB-70

PXG 0211 5-SW Mitsubishi MMT Graphite

:titelist-small: AP1 52* SW TT XP-95

:taylormade-small: MG 58* TT DG Wedge

Scotty Cameron Custom welded LN 

Grips- GP MCC+4

 

 

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First of all thank you for giving us the opportunity to ask questions. I have a driver swing speed around 115 and an aggressive transition. I also spin the ball more than I would like. What shaft from your current lineup would you suggest for me? Weight flex etc....

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Could you compare the Atmos Tour Spec Black vs the Fujikura Pro 73? If I'm gaming the Atmos now and want a little higher launch will this achieve it? Does one feel smoother than the other?

In my Vessel-removebg-preview.png.afd31301c874ee24a33a6c5f06f4ab98.png Lux XV Cart Bag:
Driver: image.png.0d0a9c800176ad44335fd0a7facba020.png RADSPEED XB PTC 10.5° Fujikura Speeder Evolution 661 VII Stiff
Utility: callaway-golf-vector-logo-removebg-preview.png.1467fda9195e29c96aa5066f048e91b9.png Apex UW 17° and 19° Project X HZRDUS Smoke Black RDX 70 6.0
4 Hybrid: image.png.0d0a9c800176ad44335fd0a7facba020.png KING LTDx 21° KBS PGI 85 Stiff
Irons: image.png.66179558e8e55b8b35b741c037395846.png ZX5/ZX7 Project X LZ 6.0
Wedges: image.png.620c54f7108fefbf49a94ba169f19081.png 2.0 49°, 53°, 57° Project X LZ 6.0
Putter:  logo-horizontal-black.svg LINK.1 34"
Ball: MaxFli.png.395dd0dca3a12529f636728b3e66a134.png Tour (Thanks MGS for allowing me to test these!)

Check out my Official MGS Reviews Below!
:skycaddie: LX5 Watch - Link Here!

MaxFli.png.395dd0dca3a12529f636728b3e66a134.png Tour and TourX Golf Balls - Link Here!

image.png.28a3be9c497202cfc8176faecf8777ad.png Approach S70 Watch - Link Here!

 

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So personally I have been fitted for all my current shafts that I am playing/have played, but I’m sure a lot of you have seen online questioners where you can get a recommended shaft without having to go in and get fitted. Questions like swing speed shot shape and preferred trajectory. It seems convenient if you feel like you don’t have time to get a proper fitting but are you really gonna get anywhere close to what the right shaft is for you by doing that?

Edit: I think a cool test would be to try a shaft you get fitted for online and one you get professionally fitted for and compare the numbers. Let me know what you think I might give it a go!

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21 hours ago, TENBUCK said:

Why can't there be a universal flex rating by all manufacturers so that a A-L-M-S-XS be the same with all? I'm sure some of it has to do with marketing, but to the consumer it would be of benefit and to the manufacturer. I might like a TT but willing to try a Fuji if the specs were closely identical. 

We like that you guys are coming out of the gates with the tough questions like these! there are many ways to answer this and many opinions. A simple answer is we all have different machines to measure the CPM so nothing is apples to apples. Also this is one of the big reasons why all of us in the industry recommend going to get custom fit, because at the end of the day the specs should not matter to the golfer so long as a certified fitter puts the golfer in the one that best enhances their performance.

21 hours ago, ssops00 said:

I feel all shaft manufacturers should publish the frequency numbers (4) on all shafts so you could compare one OEM's shaft to another USING DATA. (as we are learning with the virus, the only way to make decisions is by using data- the rest is marketing BS).  Then, when you do a fitting, the fitter should tell you / recommend to you what shaft frequencies would work best for you , they you would know USING DATA your best fit.

See above, we all use different machines so this would not really help unfortunately. Not apples to apples. Most all of our dealers have their own CPM machines, so when you visit their shop they know how the shafts compare having used the same machine to test all. The most important data for the golfer is the ball flight performance, not the CPM or torque. If you find one you hit the best and feels great then who cares what weight or flex or torque value or bend point (etc) it is right?!

also, as the marketing guy I have to disagree about the BS comment 🙂

20 hours ago, Bucky CC said:

What are your thoughts on shaft PUREing? Is it really a beneficial service to perform on shafts, or are manufacturing tolerances tight enough now that it won’t make a large difference for most golfers?

THANK YOU for offering to answer our questions!

 

Another juicy topic! Nice. There's quite a misconception out there about spines on shafts, even with graphite. Check out ShaftU Production 101 for more on how we produce our shafts which do not have spines: https://mygolfspy.com/shaft-u-production-process-101/

When we apply the plies of materials they are "clocked" so the starting point rotates. If we applied the material at the same spot on the clock every time it would create a spine and an imbalance, which is why we do not. And our tolerances are extremely tight on every shaft we produce at both of our wholly owned factories. We do not have some shafts with tight tolerances and others without. Hope that helps.

-Eric

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Thanks @Fujikura Golf for this tread!!  I had a few questions if you don't mind.

1) As I've been doing my testing with the Motore X F1 6X (small thread plug below), what recommendations would you suggest if I were to add a shaft to my Cobra F8 3 wood?  Would I stay in F1 or move to F3?

  2) Have you done any testing with Enso to see a difference in tipping a shaft vs. going to a stiffer flex?

3) What do you feel has been your biggest advancement in the past 10 years?

Then to answer your question, I'm hopefully going to be able to use my hitting net in the next few days as it's finally getting warmer!  I can't wait to keep testing the F1 shaft!  Other than that, I've really been enjoying all of the lives that have been happening on social media as well as TXG's new content on their youtube channel.  Thanks again for everything!!

Driver: Callaway Rogue ST Max
3 Wood: Taylormade SIM
3 Utility Iron: Srixon U85
4i – 5i: Taylormade P790
6i – AW: Taylormade P770
SW: Taylormade MG3 TW Grind
LW: Taylormade Hi-Toe 3 Low Bounce
Putter: PXG Battle Ready One & Done

 

 

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14 hours ago, TENBUCK said:

I don't care if it's profiles, frequencies or LARSX, it should be standardized, but I don't think that will ever happen.

It happens, some tried to create the International Flex Code... but only some brands use it.

IFC.png

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7 hours ago, Fujikura Golf said:

We like that you guys are coming out of the gates with the tough questions like these! there are many ways to answer this and many opinions. A simple answer is we all have different machines to measure the CPM so nothing is apples to apples. Also this is one of the big reasons why all of us in the industry recommend going to get custom fit, because at the end of the day the specs should not matter to the golfer so long as a certified fitter puts the golfer in the one that best enhances their performance

-Eric

Hi Eric, thank you for your response. I’m not quite following the response of “different machines”. Is cycles per minute (“CPM”) an objective or subjective measurement/ number? If objective, then why can this number not be measured consistently, i.e., speed/radar gun or a scale? If this is the case, how do companies have machines that do not measure correctly and stay in business? If you’re saying that CPM is a subjective number, can you please explain why. 
Thanks!

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1 hour ago, conted said:

Hi Eric, thank you for your response. I’m not quite following the response of “different machines”. Is cycles per minute (“CPM”) an objective or subjective measurement/ number? If objective, then why can this number not be measured consistently, i.e., speed/radar gun or a scale? If this is the case, how do companies have machines that do not measure correctly and stay in business? If you’re saying that CPM is a subjective number, can you please explain why. 
Thanks!

I think the answer is about calibration and tolerances.   All machines have tolerances and unless the same device is used to do the calibrations,  readings may be different.    This is one theory on why the drivers failed testing last year;  the ones owned by the company didn't have the same reading as the one the tour used.

Driver:  :ping-small: G400 Max 9* w/ KBS Tour Driven
Fairway: :titelist-small: TS3 15*  w/Project X Hzardous Smoke
Hybrids:  :titelist-small: 915H 21* w/KBS Tour Graphite Hybrid Prototype
                :titelist-small: 915H  24*  w/KBS Tour Graphite Hybrid Prototype        
Irons:      :honma:TR20V 6-11 w/Vizard TR20-85 Graphite
Wedge:  :titleist-small: 54/12D, 60/8M w/:Accra iWedge 90 Graphite
Putter:   Sacks Parente MC 3 Stripe

Backup Putters:  :odyssey-small: Milled Collection RSX 2, :seemore-small: mFGP2, :cameron-small: Futura 5W, :taylormade-small:TM-180

Member:  MGS Hitsquad since 2017697979773_DSCN2368(Custom).JPG.a1a25f5e430d9eebae93c5d652cbd4b9.JPG

 

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17 minutes ago, cnosil said:

I think the answer is about calibration and tolerances.   All machines have tolerances and unless the same device is used to do the calibrations,  readings may be different.    This is one theory on why the drivers failed testing last year;  the ones owned by the company didn't have the same reading as the one the tour used.

It goes beyond this in that the definition of a cycle is not consistent. Even if the same machine is used, differences in the clamp size, location, and tip weight could theoretically change the cycle distance. Also remember that this is only a measurement of the butt section of the shaft (2 shafts from the same OEM could both measure to 250 cpm but have drastically different profiles from mid to tip and ultimately play very differently).

Ultimately the equipment OEMs have little financial incentive to concede to any type of industry standard (it is more ridiculous that the club OEMs aren’t in agreement in how a club’s length should be measured). 

:titelist-small:  TS2 9.5

:titelist-small:  909F2 15.5

:titelist-small:  690.CB 3-PW

:titelist-small:  Vokey SM5 50, 56

image.png.e50b7e7a9b18feff4720d7b223a2013d.png   Works Versa 1W

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I'm looking into replacing my hybrid shaft and I'm looking at going slighty shorter for tighter dispersion and better gapping between clubs.  If I want to play my 3 hybrid at a 4 hybrid length, should I take the new shaft and tip / butt trim like it's going into a 4 hybrid, or should I simply butt trim the current shaft?  What will be the effects of each assuming the shafts are the same shaft?

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20 hours ago, conted said:

Hi Eric, thank you for your response. I’m not quite following the response of “different machines”. Is cycles per minute (“CPM”) an objective or subjective measurement/ number? If objective, then why can this number not be measured consistently, i.e., speed/radar gun or a scale? If this is the case, how do companies have machines that do not measure correctly and stay in business? If you’re saying that CPM is a subjective number, can you please explain why. 
Thanks!

They are physically different machines. Iirc from my visit to a couple different brands there are differences in how they measure as well. 

Driver: PXG 0811 X+ Proto w/UST Helium 5F4

Wood: TaylorMade M5 5W w/Accra TZ5 +1/2”, TaylorMade Sim 3W w/Aldila rogue white

Hybrid: PXG Gen2 22* w/AD hybrid

Irons: PXG Gen3 0311T w/Nippon modus 120

Wedges: TaylorMade MG2 50*, Tiger grind 56/60

Putter: Scotty Caemeron Super Rat1

Ball: Titleist Prov1

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With COVID-19 and the impacts on golf.  Many assessments will have to be taken into account.  As you engage in product innovations, are you expecting to have to make adjustments in how you anticipate the player/consumer needs (i.e. specs), as well as the supply chain production moving forward.

a. Ladies Flex/10-12 degrees loft/25"-27" (male equivalent)

b. Adjustable/Ladies Flex (male equivalent)

c. Right-Handed

d. San Diego

e. -18

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Are they coming back to answer all of the questions????


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Driver: Ping G430 Max 9*, Ping Tour 70X

Fairway: Ping G425 15*, Ping Tour 70X

Hybrid: Ping G425 22*, Ping Tour 80X

Irons:  Ping i230 4-GW, TT DG X100

Wedges: :edel-golf-1: SMS 50D/54V/58D:Nippon:Modus 130 stiff, +1”

Putter:  :edel-golf-1: EAS 1.0

Ball: Titleist 2023 AVX

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On 4/2/2020 at 11:40 AM, Fujikura Golf said:

Hey MGS Community - How's everyone doing?

We at Fujikura are using this time to do our part to turn our attention to education and having a conversation with golfers. 

We have looped in our sales team, product experts and Tour fitters to participate in the Q&A and help answer your questions. Please feel free to use this as an opportunity to ask us anything, it does not have to be just about shaft specs. 

Thanks for chatting with us and we hope to hear from you. 

Sincerely,

The Fuji team in Carlsbad, CA

AUA banner-01.png

Thanks for coming on here and chatting with us. I used to be a master club fitter for a company, and it was disappointing to hear many of the misconceptions and myths people had when it came to golf equipment and fittings. I think people on this forum could really benefit from dispelling some of the misconceptions and myths out there. 

I'd say dispel any myths or misconceptions you guys encounter on a regular basis, or that you think people would really benefit from having explained. 

If nothing pops straight to mind how about touching on things the following misconceptions I've heard:

"I'm a fast swinger (person's own opinion), and my buddy (hacker playing partner) says I should get extra stiff shafts", or on the other end of the spectrum the guy who maybe a senior and says he was told he should be getting senior or woman's shafts by his uneducated playing partners. (How more flexible can relate to high, and stiff to lower ball flights. How stiffer doesn't mean straighter, and more flexible doesn't mean more side to side dispersion) 

Maybe touch on how launch and spin is more important than swing speed when it comes to choosing shafts. Maybe touch on the importance of angle of attack on shaft selection. 

Maybe touch on how torque is related to feel, and with modern shafts it has little baring on dispersion (aka higher torque doesn't mean spray more shots). 

I remember people having misconceptions on graphite vs steel when it came to consistency, duribilty, flex, etc. Perhaps talk about some of those misconceptions or myths. 

Thanks again! 

Edited by Scientific Golfer

 

 

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Am I the only cynic that thinks this is just a waste of time? I have played long enough to know that there is no standard on any aspect of shaft "labeling". I don't ever just take for granted what R, S, XS means. I just hit them and see what I like. I have no idea what data/info Fujikura could possibly give that would make a whit of difference to any of us. Even if you have never been fit (me), you know damn well what feels right when you hit it. It might not be optimal... in degrees, but you know.

 

Just hit a bunch of shafts............. and decide what YOU like.

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53 minutes ago, silver & black said:

Am I the only cynic that thinks this is just a waste of time? I have played long enough to know that there is no standard on any aspect of shaft "labeling". I don't ever just take for granted what R, S, XS means. I just hit them and see what I like. I have no idea what data/info Fujikura could possibly give that would make a whit of difference to any of us. Even if you have never been fit (me), you know damn well what feels right when you hit it. It might not be optimal... in degrees, but you know.

 

Just hit a bunch of shafts............. and decide what YOU like.

It is just you. There’s some good questions in here on shaft design that are far beyond just the labeled flex. There’s lots of information a shaft company can share that’s not proprietary and educational to the consumer. The education series fujikura did with mgs is pretty good

Driver: PXG 0811 X+ Proto w/UST Helium 5F4

Wood: TaylorMade M5 5W w/Accra TZ5 +1/2”, TaylorMade Sim 3W w/Aldila rogue white

Hybrid: PXG Gen2 22* w/AD hybrid

Irons: PXG Gen3 0311T w/Nippon modus 120

Wedges: TaylorMade MG2 50*, Tiger grind 56/60

Putter: Scotty Caemeron Super Rat1

Ball: Titleist Prov1

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4 minutes ago, RickyBobby_PR said:

It is just you. There’s some good questions in here on shaft design that are far beyond just the labeled flex. There’s lots of information a shaft company can share that’s not proprietary and educational to the consumer. The education series fujikura did with mgs is pretty good

That's cool. It's just my cynical side coming out. I know there are good questions. I just question if there are good answers considering there are NO standards in the industry?

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43 minutes ago, silver & black said:

That's cool. It's just my cynical side coming out. I know there are good questions. I just question if there are good answers considering there are NO standards in the industry?

If you know there are good questions in here there’s no need to be cynical. Learn from the answers to the questions that arent related to shaft measuring characteristics.
 

Driver: PXG 0811 X+ Proto w/UST Helium 5F4

Wood: TaylorMade M5 5W w/Accra TZ5 +1/2”, TaylorMade Sim 3W w/Aldila rogue white

Hybrid: PXG Gen2 22* w/AD hybrid

Irons: PXG Gen3 0311T w/Nippon modus 120

Wedges: TaylorMade MG2 50*, Tiger grind 56/60

Putter: Scotty Caemeron Super Rat1

Ball: Titleist Prov1

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1 hour ago, RickyBobby_PR said:

It is just you. There’s some good questions in here on shaft design that are far beyond just the labeled flex. There’s lots of information a shaft company can share that’s not proprietary and educational to the consumer. The education series fujikura did with mgs is pretty good

I'd be willing to bet bet it isn't just me. But.... I'll take your reply for how you intended it to be. 😉

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On 4/2/2020 at 12:00 PM, JScott said:

Checking out shaft U right now. 

JScott - thanks for checking out the Shaft U education pieces we collaborated with MGS on. We enjoyed this series and look for more/different topics from us in the future (once the current situation is behind us). Stay tuned!

- Austin, Fujikura Product Marketing Manager

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On 4/2/2020 at 1:01 PM, Bucky CC said:

What are your thoughts on shaft PUREing? Is it really a beneficial service to perform on shafts, or are manufacturing tolerances tight enough now that it won’t make a large difference for most golfers?

THANK YOU for offering to answer our questions!

 

Bucky CC - Thanks for your question. 

Within any manufacturing there are tolerances and we work HARD to eliminate any production tolerances through the tight specifications we require of our supply partners to our multiple production specification checks. Additionally, our production and shaft rolling processes were designed to eliminate variances. With graphite, we are able to place materials (lighter/heavier, softer/stiffer) exactly where we need them to create specific performance attributes - this is our advantage. Meaning, we not only have the ability to use a variety of types of carbon fiber, but we also can apply and wrap these materials with exacting precision to ensure concentricity, eliminating any performance/quality issues during the production process. All of this being said, all products have tolerances, no matter what you purchase. If you feel PUREing will provide you confidence in your purchase, by all means go for it, but we believe and stand by our production processes and multiple specification checks that ensure the performance of our designs. 

For more on this, check out - https://mygolfspy.com/shaft-u-production-process-101/

Hope this helps!

-AT

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On 4/2/2020 at 1:08 PM, chisag said:

... Can you explain how you keep spin low with mid and high launching shafts like the Atmos TS Blue? 

Hi chisag - 

Without giving away the recipe, we use a combination of stiffness in the mid/tip sections and decrease torque. 

Thanks for your question,

- AT, Product Mktg Mgr, Fujikura

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On 4/2/2020 at 3:02 PM, Ward Jackson said:

I am a 2 handicap that has a fairly flat swing, so I am height challenged. My swing speed is between 95 and 97 miles per hr. Which shaft would you recommend for me to hit the ball higher with? 

Hi Ward Jackson - 

Thank you for your response.

We have several options for you to try, but I would recommend starting with the following (highest launching first):

Motore X F3 / Atmos TS Red / Ventus Red / Pro 2.0

This isn't intended as a prescription, but a place for you to start in our product line. 

Hope this helps!

- AT, Product Mktg Mgr, Fujikura

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On 4/2/2020 at 1:14 PM, Mabyboi said:

Hello! 
Thanks for taking the time to reply to questions!

I was just fit into Fujikura Pro 2.0 Tour Spec 6X for my Driver and the 8X for my fairway woods. I was curious what the difference between Pro 2.0 Tour Spec and Ventus Black would be?

What does the EI curve look like for both? I really enjoy the stable feeling of Pro 2.0 TS, but I’ve also heard great things about Ventus Black!

Thanks!

Hi Mabyboi - Thanks for your question.

When looking at the two models (Pro 2.0 TS and Ventus Black), consider the following:

Pro 2.0 TS - designed as a stiffer, lower launching option of Pro 2.0. Designed with a low-mid launch and spin. Tip stiff, but smoother in the handle section to increase energy transfer.

Ventus Black - extension of the Ventus line, designed to be ultra-stiff in the tip and handle section with a stiff mid section. One of the stiffest profiles we offer but uses an accelerated taper to reduce the "boardy" feel that most ultra-stiff profiles seem to have. Utilizes VeloCore Technology to improve center face contact and tighten dispersion. Harry Nodwell is a big fan of this model and has found success in not only the driver but 3W as well. 

To summarize, Ventus Black is overall stiffer, will tend to launch lower and spin less. 

Hope this helps!

- AT, Product Mktg Mgr, Fujikura

 

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58 minutes ago, Fujikura Golf said:

Hi chisag - 

Without giving away the recipe, we use a combination of stiffness in the mid/tip sections and decrease torque. 

Thanks for your question,

- AT, Product Mktg Mgr, Fujikura

Without giving away ingredients 😀 are you doing this thru flag placements, flag alignment and/or type of material to possibly including multiple flags of same material?

Driver: PXG 0811 X+ Proto w/UST Helium 5F4

Wood: TaylorMade M5 5W w/Accra TZ5 +1/2”, TaylorMade Sim 3W w/Aldila rogue white

Hybrid: PXG Gen2 22* w/AD hybrid

Irons: PXG Gen3 0311T w/Nippon modus 120

Wedges: TaylorMade MG2 50*, Tiger grind 56/60

Putter: Scotty Caemeron Super Rat1

Ball: Titleist Prov1

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