2020 Official Member Review: Exputt putting simulator

[cksurfdude]

16 hours ago, PMookie said:

but overall, I really think I had more putts over 25 feet than under

Yeah, that appears to be the way they've set up Challenge -- so just to check each time using it was different I noted my putt lengths and breaks 2nd and 3rd times through; while the length aggregates were similar all the individual putts each time were still different.

Here's about where those two Challenge rounds came out...
10 to 20 ft --> 6 putts
20 to 30 ft --> 10 putts
30 to 40 ft --> 10 putts
40 to 50 ft --> 1 putt
..total.............27 putts

..with...
Elevation changes between -10" down to +9" up
Breaks from essentially flat (a few) thru moderately sloped (most) to severely sloped (about 4 or 5)
..some breaks included going up and over mounds, and a few other double-breakers

[cnosil]

Putter testing today via the play mode while watching the PGA championship.   Using 4 different putters for each player and seeing how they perform.  I have 2 putters that seem to be finishing on top....EvnRoll and Odyssey.   I am finding that the play mode is pretty good;  the other day I was struggling with short putts and while better I continue to do so.  On the short putts you can't "kneel" down to see the break so you have to rely on the "water" trails but I still think that the system is indicating misses for putts that should go into the hole.  I have lots of putts that seem to hit the back of the cup and end up on the back lip.   Will be interested in seeing if the other testers are experiencing the same thing. 

[cksurfdude]

2 hours ago, cnosil said:

Will be interested in seeing if the other testers are experiencing the same thing. 

Yes.... Have had several firm putts that - I think, on a real green - should've hit the back of the cup and dropped ... but they bounced over the top..!!

Got a "Concede" after but .. it's still an extra stroke...

[cnosil]

Played 18 yesterday and based on what I am seeing the ExPutt is helping me with distance control on putts greater than 10 feet. While not perfect, the distance feels are starting to get ingrained.

In my last post I was mentioning that the ball capture for short putts seemed off. Before my round I was hitting some 2-5 footers and experimenting with speed. My mentality on these putts is a bang then into the back of the hole (or flagstick) I believe ball capture in the ExPutt is a bit off and higher balls that go in the hole on the course don’t on the ExPutt.

[PMookie]

On 8/8/2020 at 5:10 PM, cksurfdude said:

Yes.... Have had several firm putts that - I think, on a real green - should've hit the back of the cup and dropped ... but they bounced over the top..!!

Got a "Concede" after but .. it's still an extra stroke...

Same here.... I’m finding the 2’-3’ “tap-Ins” aren’t so. I missed FOUR from inside 3.5’ last night. All went through the “dots” on the mat that represent the width of the cup.

[PMookie]

I had a really good round of putting yesterday, averaging 1.72 putts, had two birdies, and burned the edges of two more. All were over 10’. I’d have to say, just the fact that I’m practicing putting more, especially path, it seems to be helping....

[cksurfdude]

2 hours ago, cnosil said:

..based on what I am seeing the ExPutt is helping me with distance control on putts greater than 10 feet. While not perfect, the distance feels are starting to get ingrained.

Agreed! Based on all the long putt practice, when playing I'm starting to step off .. or at least make a good estimate of .. the first putt distance - which helps me to associate the stroke length / effort needed to get it closer (well.. most times anyway... ).

[cksurfdude]

The hole capture speed in Play mode does seem more strict vs Practice, or also Challenge, but my bigger criticism is here the system has short putts between 2 to 5 feet ... corresponding to your distance from the hole after a previous putt ... but in Practice mode 5ft is the hard minimum you can putt.

So, fwiw, in Play for those short ones I've been imagining the hole is in front of the mat at the given distance.

[PMookie]

3 hours ago, cksurfdude said:

The hole capture speed in Play mode does seem more strict vs Practice, or also Challenge, but my bigger criticism is here the system has short putts between 2 to 5 feet ... corresponding to your distance from the hole after a previous putt ... but in Practice mode 5ft is the hard minimum you can putt.

So, fwiw, in Play for those short ones I've been imagining the hole is in front of the mat at the given distance.

The 2 ft mark on the mat is 2’ from the “ready position”, so when it shows three feet or less, I expect that the bumper, or just past, is where the hole would be. I missed one from three feet that had no movement on the screen, and I putted the ball directly through the area on the mat where the cup is, based on the lines. Frustrating 

[cksurfdude]

31 minutes ago, PMookie said:

The 2 ft mark on the mat is 2’ from the “ready position”, so when it show three feet or less, I expect that the bumper, or just past is where the hole would be. I missed one from three feet that had no movement on the screen, and I putted the ball directly through the area on the mat where the cup is, based on the lines. Frustrating 

Yeah those short ones are "touchy"..!

[cnosil]

Glad that it isn’t just me with the short putt speed. It actually kind of messed with me at the start of my round yesterday as I was hesitant to put any speed behind the short putts.

I agree with you@cksurfdude if they want you to make the 2 footers there should be a way to practice them.

[cksurfdude]

Play mode...

Well after an opening hole FOUR putt, I managed to sink or get a Concede on a few first putts for a low total so far of 18 putts .. and what the game calls even par

[cnosil]

20 minutes ago, cksurfdude said:

Play mode...

Well after an opening hole FOUR putt, I managed to sink or get a Concede on a few first putts for a low total so far of 18 putts .. and what the game calls even par

even is my best so far as well;  i have had rounds with birdies,  just had more bogies that birdies.

[cksurfdude]

Alllmoossst.... had a clean round on the "Summer" course - save for that ooops  on #7...

Getting into this!

[PMookie]

One double... Ugh. Best so far.

[gavinski91]

Best I've managed so far is 37 (19 putts). Doing this without the hints is hard!

I definitely agree that the game struggles with sub-5' putts. I've had a 2-footer with no break that "missed" when I hit them directly over the 2' center line on the mat. Also had a putt that I hit into the bumper that only traveled 1.5' on screen. Definitely something funky there, which may be why they elect to not allow you to practice those - maybe the difference between simulated green speed and the speed of the mat makes it hard to be accurate with those (or at least have the actual putt translate to the screen)? I don't know.

[cksurfdude]

8 minutes ago, gavinski91 said:

maybe the difference between simulated green speed and the speed of the mat makes it hard to be accurate with those (or at least have the actual putt translate to the screen)?

Hmmm interesting theory!

[cnosil]

I'll just leave this here:

[cksurfdude]

^^^ Nice!!!

"purr.. FECT!"

(inside joke for ExPutt users )

[cksurfdude]

OK, fyi for people following (and participating in) this topic, I'm coming down firmly on the side of... 

Yes, ExPutt practice *does* help improve your actual on-course putting.

Played an Executive 9 yesterday .. it's short, more Par 3s than Par 4s .. but the greens there really make up the bulk of the challenge as they are fast - and seemed extra fast yesterday with all the sun and heat we've been having - plus they're all very sloped and contoured and most have ridges running through them; almost no flat areas anywhere.

I did 3-putt twice, but I'll flip that around and say I only! 3-putted twice .. and both were on me - one I hit too firmly, misjudging how much speed the ball would gain going over one of those ridges running across the green between the me and the hole; the other was a total miss-hit where the ball was above my feet .. I was going across and up and over another of said ridges .. and brushed the bottom of the putter against the ground before the ball so hit it way too softly that time and the ball only got halfway there...

Both of those second putts were hit well and juuuust missed the edge both times.

And I had two 1-putts .. one from only about 5 and one from about 10-12 feet .. for what for me (on that course, too) is a very acceptable total 18 putts / avg 2 putts per hole.

[PMookie]

I just spent an hour on the Exputt playing 9 a few times, then going back to practice mode. I’m an Aimpoint guy, so I can’t read the greens on this without the hint. I’ve been taking guesses and then hitting hint, and it’s amazing how far off I am. I had one tonight that was 42’, 8” uphill, with SIXTEEN feet of break.... Yeahhhhh, that is a putt I will NEVER see in real life. 
Short putts have been confounding me for sure. At one point, in three holes, I had missed three putts inside 4 ft. Something is definitely off as I’m using the lines on the mat that represent the cup all the time on the short ones.

I had one 9 hole set where I only had two holes with putts less than 36’, and everyone of them had a minimum of 2’ of break, four of them with breaks of over 7’. Again, not anything I’d ever see in real life.

As I said to Mo last night, though, I did see putts closer to the hole on my first tries this past weekend. For the simple fact that I’m actually practicing my putting, and working on path and face angle, Exputt HAS to be helping.

[cnosil]

I I had one tonight that was 42’, 8” uphill, with SIXTEEN feet of break.... Yeahhhhh, that is a putt I will NEVER see in real life. 

I had one 9 hole set where I only had two holes with putts less than 36’, and everyone of them had a minimum of 2’ of break, four of them with breaks of over 7’. Again, not anything I’d ever see in real life.

You will find those types of breaks on courses. I have a couple of courses that I play that will get a couple of those, but if you play golf in the more mountainous regions you will see it more frequently.

We are getting close to the end of our review period so final reviews will be posted in a couple of weeks. Early preview:
As I have mentioned earlier in this thread. I think the product is good and I am going to continue using it long term as I believe it is helping me with distance control. For what I want to accomplish I see limited used for the challenge and practice modes.

[PMookie]

4 minutes ago, cnosil said:

 

You will find those types of breaks on courses. I have a couple of courses that I play that will get a couple of those, but if you play golf in the more mountainous regions you will see it more frequently.

We are getting close to the end of our review period so final reviews will be posted in a couple of weeks. Early preview:
As I have mentioned earlier in this thread. I think the product is good and I am going to continue using it long term as I believe it is helping me with distance control. For what I want to accomplish I see limited used for the challenge and practice modes.

 

Yeah, I’ve played all over the country, mountain golf in college, coastal golf, etc, and most courses I’ve ever played rarely have those breaks. Heck, places I’ve played  like Valhalla, TPC Louisiana, TPC San Antonio, Barton Creek, where Pros play, top courses in a State, rarely have those breaks on their holes. A few holes is one thing, but having a majority of these holes in a 9 hole set on Exputt just isn’t realistic for me.

Point is, in my personal view, I’d like settings and options to actually practice the types of putts I DO see all the time. I don’t travel as much anymore, and the top courses in Louisiana, Mississippi, and E. TX have specific characteristics that I would do well to practice more often. 

[cksurfdude]

42 minutes ago, PMookie said:

Point is, in my personal view, I’d like settings and options to actually practice the types of putts I DO see all the time.

Totally agree on this ... And this same point is going to be among the comments in my review, too.

[Golfspy_CG2]

On 8/8/2020 at 3:43 PM, cnosil said:

Putter testing today via the play mode while watching the PGA championship.   Using 4 different putters for each player and seeing how they perform.  I have 2 putters that seem to be finishing on top....EvnRoll and Odyssey.   I am finding that the play mode is pretty good;  the other day I was struggling with short putts and while better I continue to do so.  On the short putts you can't "kneel" down to see the break so you have to rely on the "water" trails but I still think that the system is indicating misses for putts that should go into the hole.  I have lots of putts that seem to hit the back of the cup and end up on the back lip.   Will be interested in seeing if the other testers are experiencing the same thing. 

 

On 8/10/2020 at 9:59 AM, cksurfdude said:

The hole capture speed in Play mode does seem more strict vs Practice, or also Challenge, but my bigger criticism is here the system has short putts between 2 to 5 feet ... corresponding to your distance from the hole after a previous putt ... but in Practice mode 5ft is the hard minimum you can putt.

So, fwiw, in Play for those short ones I've been imagining the hole is in front of the mat at the given distance.

I had the same issues with putts that I thought for sure would have gone into the back of the cup. 

During Play mode I have also had issues with the 3 and four footers, like others I imagine it 1 to 2 feet beyond the bumper, but on one hole I had 3 straight putts miss from 4 feet back and fourth.

 

[cksurfdude]

ExPutt - forum member review.
================
PLAY MODE REVIEW
================

I posted some comments earlier but wanted to collect all my thoughts in one place.

Overview…
The last testing stage after Challenge Mode, Play Mode provides a way for up to 4 players (in a room together, not virtually) to putt against each other; here low score .. like in actual golf .. wins vs in Challenge mode which awarded more points for fewer putts (Stableford like). Also different from Challenge, where you had 3 chances at each putt to hole it or get it within 3 feet for a Concede, in Play if you miss your first putt - and if it's still outside of 2 feet away this time - then your second putt is from where the ball stops ... for an added level of realism / immersion.

Each player starts with a GIR and at a different starting position from each other on each of 9 greens. Like Challenge you can select a course difficulty - we stuck with Spring - and a green speed - we again used 10; of course all players are on the same course with the same green speed, but each player can set their individual Dexterity (RH/LH). Note that Player 1 continues putting until they hole out or get inside of 2 feet for a Concede; then Player 2 putts and so on - all players don't do just their first putts, then all do their second putts, etc. as you might on an actual golf course. 

The screen looks like the Challenge screen setup and the same break-reading tools are here - the water droplet grid overlaying the green and the heat/contour map of the slope of the green at the upper-right of the screen. The same "Hints" are also available, but in our testing contest we agreed to ignore them and pick our own start line. 

So ... it's a benefit to spend time in Challenge mode first to get used to "reading" the on-screen tools and figuring out how much break the system is looking for on different kinds of putts.

 

Some things I liked...
The added pressure of holing out, or getting within 2 feet (vs 3 in Challenge), adds to the overall benefit of ExPutt as a putting practice / training aid. 

Most of your first putts are 20+ and 30+ footers, which kinda corresponds to my actual on-course experience (remember: typical recreational golfer .. not a PGA Tour Pro with a high ranking in the Proximity stats!). And although most breaks - even on the virtual Spring course - may be more severe than most of the courses you play on, having a different break on every hole provides good practice on figuring out your varying starting lines and speeds on every putt.

 

Some things that might be nice to have...
2nd Putt Distance - this is actually a comment relevant to Practice and Challenge modes, but in Play mode you're putting 2-, 3- and 4-footers. In Practice the shortest available putt is 5 feet .. in Challenge it's 3' 1" .. so Practice mode, at least, should have the option to putt these shorter distances.

Hole Fly-Over - before starting each hole there is a too quick fly-over showing you the general layout of the green; there are little numbered markers for each player's starting position. It might be helpful to slow this down a bit, or maybe give the user pause/rewind buttons.

Hole Diameter - allow a player to select the larger cup option (currently in Main Program Settings) for themselves; eg. a child playing against a parent.

Hole Capture - all the testers agreed it seemed more strict vs Challenge and also Practice modes ... for example, some short, firm putts that seemed to drop in the earlier modes might continue straight over the hole here. Might be better if this were more consistent across all modes, or least a user-selectable option.

Scorecard - only shows you the total number of strokes per hole, which includes both your GIR strokes and your putts, and then the total score for 9 holes. Shows you the green speed selected but does not show you the course name.

I feel it would be helpful info to also display each player's total Number of Putts and Average Putts per Hole; and maybe even an "Avg Distance From Hole on 1st Putt" stat.

Edit: and/or add a stat for "Total Feet of Putts Made"

[cnosil]

Play Mode 

On to the final piece of functionality with the ExPutt simulator;   getting close to the final countdown.  

Play 9 allows you an up to 3 other friends play "golf".  Everyone in this is a great golfer tee to green since everyone hits the green in regulation.  Your challenge is to finish up the hole.  Do you make birdie, par,  of do you hack around until the game feels sorry for you and awards you double par?    Yes,  the later has happened a couple of times due to poor short range putting.  

When you start Play mode,   you select how many players and the dexterity of each of those golfers, green speed, and course (just like Challenge, each course has a different difficulty) (sorry for the crooked pictures,  yes I can turn them,  but didn't have an opportunity.)  

 

For each hole you will get a fly by that will show you the hole and where every golfer is located on the green since players don't have the same putt.  if does seem to even out distances and break for each golfer over the 9 holes.

 

Once you are on the green each players plays until they have holed the putt or the putt is inside of 2' (conceded by software).  

During play there is an ongoing scorecard that shows the status for each player.   The third column shows if the player has holed out, the player that is up (highlighted), the distance for the other golfers.   I honestly don't know what the third column in the following image signifies when it says 2nd, 3rd, etc.)

After each hole and once the 9 holes are completed by each player the system displays a scorecard.  Below is a completed scorecard that shows Player 2 as the winner.

With the above scoring it is obvious who won,    but why did Player 1 get the win in the below image?

 

 

If you have kids or others to play with this would be a fun game as the simulation is pretty realistic.   The biggest complaint from myself and based on conversation with the other testers is how difficult it is to make putts in the 2-5' range.  All of us agreed that holes that would normally be holed on a real golf course bounced out of the cup and weren't holed.  We reviewed using the spring mode and based on the difficulty of making those short putts, the harder courses will be a real challenge.

In summary,  if you want to play with friends this is a great way to pass the time.  If you want to work on your putting,  you will find more benefit in the Practice and Challenge mode.  

 

Stay tuned;  we are working to put together our final reports on the product and I will get into more detail on the product as a whole and some ideas on how I think you can best utilize the software.  If there is anything specific you want to know just ask!!!

[cksurfdude]

Last Round (9 holes) Update:
Seeing overall improvement! Had 2 x 1-putts .. each from about 8-9 ft; 6 other first putts that almost-cudda-wudda  dropped and all stopped within a foot or so; and 1 x 3-putt .. from the fringe, so I know technically a 2 putt .. that I mis-read the downhill speed and rolled it waaay past, and second putt was another graze the edge one that also left it very close.

[cksurfdude]

OK!

Official Final Review is posted on the first page of this thread, at...
https://forum.mygolfspy.com/topic/39526-2020-official-member-review-exputt-putting-simulator/?do=findComment&comment=655087

 

[cksurfdude]

Played 18 at a new course today - some good, some .. uhhh .. not so good - but putting was on point!

2-putted everything .. even those looooong ones .. a few 1 putts and a bunch of "almost" first putts .. and .. no 3 putts! 

Yyyyeeaahhh baaaybeeee!