Incawino Posted August 22, 2020 Share Posted August 22, 2020 Hello fellow Spies, Just joined the community today and looking for info on a golf ball spec that I can't find anywhere else. Anybody know what it means when golf balls have double or triple "covers"? On the USGA approved golf ball listing, we can see within each ball's description, a notation for "1c" or "2c" or 3c". Wondering if this means layers of urethane on the outer cover, AND what difference does having multiple covers on a golf ball do? Thanks for the help! Incawino aerospace_ray 1 Quote Link to comment
ChitownM2 Posted August 22, 2020 Share Posted August 22, 2020 (edited) I think it refers to cores not covers. A 1 core ball is a 2 piece, 2 core is a 3 piece, etc. Every ball only has 1 cover and it can be urethane, ionomer or other material. Edited August 22, 2020 by ChitownM2 Quote Link to comment
cnosil Posted August 23, 2020 Share Posted August 23, 2020 2 hours ago, ChitownM2 said: I think it refers to cores not covers. A 1 core ball is a 2 piece, 2 core is a 3 piece, etc. Every ball only has 1 cover and it can be urethane, ionomer or other material. Nope, the USGA has different designations for covers and pieces https://www.usga.org/ConformingGolfBall/gball_list.pdf I looked at some cut balls and the designation on the list. All I can think is a cover layer is based on its thickness. Quote Driver: G400 Max 9* w/ KBS Tour Driven Fairway: TS3 15* w/Project X Hzardous Smoke Hybrids: 915H 21* w/KBS Tour Graphite Hybrid Prototype 915H 24* w/KBS Tour Graphite Hybrid Prototype Irons: TR20V 6-11 w/Vizard TR20-85 Graphite Wedge: 54/12D, 60/8M w/:Accra iWedge 90 Graphite Putter: Sacks Parente MC 3 Stripe Backup Putters: Milled Collection RSX 2, mFGP2, Futura 5W, TM-180 Member: MGS Hitsquad since 2017 Link to comment
aerospace_ray Posted August 23, 2020 Share Posted August 23, 2020 7 hours ago, Incawino said: Hello fellow Spies, Just joined the community today and looking for info on a golf ball spec that I can't find anywhere else. Anybody know what it means when golf balls have double or triple "covers"? On the USGA approved golf ball listing, we can see within each ball's description, a notation for "1c" or "2c" or 3c". Wondering if this means layers of urethane on the outer cover, AND what difference does having multiple covers on a golf ball do? Thanks for the help! Incawino Two sources to get you started: 1st: https://golf-info-guide.com/golf-tips/equipment-choices/golf-ball-covers-chart/ 2nd: Information and link from USGA : " CONSTRUCTION The following abbreviations are used in various combinations to describe the construction of the ball. Two-Piece 2P Three-Piece 3P Four-Piece 4P Five-Piece 5P Solid Center SC Single Cover 1c Double Cover 2c Other O Examples: "2P-SC-1c" describes a two-piece, solid core ball with a single cover. "4P-2c" describes four-piece and a double cover. " Source: https://www.usga.org/ConformingGolfBall/gball_list.pdf Buffly and timabe 1 1 Quote Link to comment
cnosil Posted August 23, 2020 Share Posted August 23, 2020 21 minutes ago, aerospace_ray said: Two sources to get you started: 1st: https://golf-info-guide.com/golf-tips/equipment-choices/golf-ball-covers-chart/ 2nd: Information and link from USGA : " CONSTRUCTION The following abbreviations are used in various combinations to describe the construction of the ball. Two-Piece 2P Three-Piece 3P Four-Piece 4P Five-Piece 5P Solid Center SC Single Cover 1c Double Cover 2c Other O Examples: "2P-SC-1c" describes a two-piece, solid core ball with a single cover. "4P-2c" describes four-piece and a double cover. " Source: https://www.usga.org/ConformingGolfBall/gball_list.pdf Still doesn't answer what a 2 or 3 cover ball is. Quote Driver: G400 Max 9* w/ KBS Tour Driven Fairway: TS3 15* w/Project X Hzardous Smoke Hybrids: 915H 21* w/KBS Tour Graphite Hybrid Prototype 915H 24* w/KBS Tour Graphite Hybrid Prototype Irons: TR20V 6-11 w/Vizard TR20-85 Graphite Wedge: 54/12D, 60/8M w/:Accra iWedge 90 Graphite Putter: Sacks Parente MC 3 Stripe Backup Putters: Milled Collection RSX 2, mFGP2, Futura 5W, TM-180 Member: MGS Hitsquad since 2017 Link to comment
ChitownM2 Posted August 23, 2020 Share Posted August 23, 2020 Now my interest is piqued as well. I'd like to see a ball with 2 covers.... Maybe I can just peel off the top one after I bounce it across the cart path and it will be as good as new ?? cnosil, GaDawg and silver & black 2 1 Quote Link to comment
storm319 Posted August 23, 2020 Share Posted August 23, 2020 At the beginning of the multilayer solid core era the industry considered mantle layers to be additional covers. The USGA has not updated the construction designations to differentiate mantles and since these are chosen by the submitter it makes cross company comparisons difficult (some OEMs count mantles as covers while others don’t). aerospace_ray, ChitownM2 and Firebird 3 Quote TS2 9.5 909F2 15.5 690.CB 3-PW Vokey SM5 50, 56 Works Versa 1W Link to comment
GaDawg Posted August 23, 2020 Share Posted August 23, 2020 21 hours ago, ChitownM2 said: Now my interest is piqued as well. I'd like to see a ball with 2 covers.... Maybe I can just peel off the top one after I bounce it across the cart path and it will be as good as new ?? Let me know where to buy some of those 2 covered balls. Sounds like they would last twice as long. Now all we need is some that we can call from the woods by saying: Kitty, Kitty, Kitty. tony@CIC 1 Quote Driver: TSI3 - 10*, Hzrdus Smoke 6.0 Stiff Driver: Stealth Plus - 10.5*, Oban Kiyoshi Purple O4Flex-65 Grams Purred 3 Wood: SIM - 15*, Graphite Design Tour AD DJ5 Stiff Hybrid: TS3 - 19*, Hzrdus Smoke 6.0 Stiff Irons: 5 - PW T150, with Nippon Zelos 7 Reg, 4 iron - U505 with Project X HZRDUS Black Stiff Wedges: Vokey SM 8 - 50*, 60* Standard Wedge Shafts Wedge: Milled Grind 3 MG3 56* S200 shaft Putter: Studio Select Newport 1.5 Putter: Phantom X 5.5 Ball: Pro V1x Link to comment
Incawino Posted August 24, 2020 Author Share Posted August 24, 2020 All good info. One question now is : what is the difference between a "cover", and a "mantle"? Since the USGA makes a point to list "covers" as a separate item, there must be some physical difference to the balls with 2+ "covers". Anybody know anyone with the USGA that can talk about balls? golf balls, that is. Quote Link to comment
storm319 Posted August 25, 2020 Share Posted August 25, 2020 10 hours ago, Incawino said: All good info. One question now is : what is the difference between a "cover", and a "mantle"? Since the USGA makes a point to list "covers" as a separate item, there must be some physical difference to the balls with 2+ "covers". Anybody know anyone with the USGA that can talk about balls? golf balls, that is. As I mentioned earlier, multiple covers is an outdated reference from the early days of multilayer balls when most of the industry referred to mantles as additional covers. Basically it comes down to a matter of semantics. Keep in mind that the USGA does not determine the designations for each entry on the list nor are these designations based on any testing or analysis, the entity submitting it to the USGA simply designates it on the application so it is up to their discretion (same with the spin designations). Some companies categorize mantles as covers (Bridgestone/Callaway) while others only consider the outer most layer to be a cover (TaylorMade/Titleist/Srixon). I know it seems confusing as most would expect an official regulated list administered by a governing body to be consistent, but it sadly isn’t. Basically I would not recommend using this list for anything other than verifying conformance and maybe the number of dimples. Below are the USGA submission guidelines in case you are interested: https://www.usga.org/content/dam/usga/pdf/2019/equipment-standards/2019-usga-golf-ball-submission-guidelines.pdf cnosil 1 Quote TS2 9.5 909F2 15.5 690.CB 3-PW Vokey SM5 50, 56 Works Versa 1W Link to comment
Middler Posted August 25, 2020 Share Posted August 25, 2020 9 hours ago, storm319 said: As I mentioned earlier, multiple covers is an outdated reference from the early days of multilayer balls when most of the industry referred to mantles as additional covers. Basically it comes down to a matter of semantics. Keep in mind that the USGA does not determine the designations for each entry on the list nor are these designations based on any testing or analysis, the entity submitting it to the USGA simply designates it on the application so it is up to their discretion (same with the spin designations). Some companies categorize mantles as covers (Bridgestone/Callaway) while others only consider the outer most layer to be a cover (TaylorMade/Titleist/Srixon). I know it seems confusing as most would expect an official regulated list administered by a governing body to be consistent, but it sadly isn’t. Basically I would not recommend using this list for anything other than verifying conformance and maybe the number of dimples. Below are the USGA submission guidelines in case you are interested: https://www.usga.org/content/dam/usga/pdf/2019/equipment-standards/2019-usga-golf-ball-submission-guidelines.pdf Makes sense. I don’t know how anything but the outer layer could be called a cover. A cover is literally an outer layer by definition. Quote Titleist TSR2 11° HZRDUS Red CB 50 6.0 w Lamkin UTx Midsize Titleist TSR2 16.5º HZRDUS Red 60 CB 6.0 & TSR2 21º HZRDUS Black 4G 70 6.0 w Lamkin UTx Midsize Mizuno JPX923 HMP 4-GW, T22 54.12WS, T22 58.04DC w Lamkin ST+2 Hybrid Midsize Evnroll EV5.3 Maxfli Tour & ProV1 Ping Pioneer - MGI Zip Navigator AT Payntr X 002 LE, Ecco Biom C4, Payntr X 001 F (Mesh) Link to comment
Buffly Posted September 1, 2020 Share Posted September 1, 2020 On 8/22/2020 at 10:06 AM, Incawino said: Hello fellow Spies, Just joined the community today and looking for info on a golf ball spec that I can't find anywhere else. Anybody know what it means when golf balls have double or triple "covers"? On the USGA approved golf ball listing, we can see within each ball's description, a notation for "1c" or "2c" or 3c". Wondering if this means layers of urethane on the outer cover, AND what difference does having multiple covers on a golf ball do? Thanks for the help! Incawino The marketing on extra covers is that it gives you different responses at different speeds of impact. The covers gives that feel of the ball off the putter and chip shots. The hard core ball can then be made to feel soft and still provide excellent long game performance too. The current tour ball market is focused mainly on at least a 2 piece cover. It is a thin Polyurethane cover, a thin mantle or mantles, and a one or two piece core. You really notice the difference on the 30-80 yard shots - those less than full swings. Tour balls with the mantle cover layer check up nicely from dry fairway shots. A cheap ball will roll out more but, a cheap ball might check up on full shots almost as good. Quote Golf is simple - people are complicated. 5w Taylormade SLDR S 19* - 220yd, Ping G2 5-U - 190-105, Maltby M+ 54* & MG 60* - 95-75, Evnroll ER8, Titleist 816 H1 4h 21*, Maltby 4 Hybrid Iron 24* - 210-200, Callaway XR16 8* - 235 carry Link to comment
Buffly Posted September 1, 2020 Share Posted September 1, 2020 On 8/22/2020 at 5:28 PM, aerospace_ray said: Two sources to get you started: 1st: https://golf-info-guide.com/golf-tips/equipment-choices/golf-ball-covers-chart/ 2nd: Information and link from USGA : " CONSTRUCTION The following abbreviations are used in various combinations to describe the construction of the ball. Two-Piece 2P Three-Piece 3P Four-Piece 4P Five-Piece 5P Solid Center SC Single Cover 1c Double Cover 2c Other O Examples: "2P-SC-1c" describes a two-piece, solid core ball with a single cover. "4P-2c" describes four-piece and a double cover. " Source: https://www.usga.org/ConformingGolfBall/gball_list.pdf Great response. Very informative and accurate. aerospace_ray 1 Quote Golf is simple - people are complicated. 5w Taylormade SLDR S 19* - 220yd, Ping G2 5-U - 190-105, Maltby M+ 54* & MG 60* - 95-75, Evnroll ER8, Titleist 816 H1 4h 21*, Maltby 4 Hybrid Iron 24* - 210-200, Callaway XR16 8* - 235 carry Link to comment
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