Club Champion Full Bag Fitting: No Changes?!

[Golf2Much]

I jumped on the Club Champion $100 full bag fitting promotion and had my appointment this week.  It's sort of a big deal as the closest Club Champion from Key West is in America 150 miles away.  To help with speeding up the introduction, I sent my fitter an email outlining my current bag contents, a summary of my game and the expectation that I wasn't in a position to purchase anything that day.  I arrived early which gave me adequate time to warm up.  I was conscience I could be hitting balls for over three hours, so I took my time and didn't hit too may shots.

I told the fitter I wanted to gain about 10+ yards on my driver, look for irons that may be a little longer and a bit more consistent and to remeasure the putter I got from Club Champion about a year prior to ensure it was still what I needed.  All things being equal, I was happy with my Callaway and Ping fairway woods and Edison wedges. 

We started with the driver.  As my signature suggests, I have a Ping G400 SFT driver with a $50 senior Matrix MFS 5 shaft made for the Korea market that I purchased on eBay.  This would be for my baseline.  After several swings, I was surprised by two things:  First, my swing speed was a little slower than I thought at roughly 72 mph.  What surprised me and the fitter was that my Smash Factor was a consistent 1.48 while hitting the virtual fairway on every shot.  My spin rate averaged 2350 rpm, launch angle about 18 degrees and 3 degree attack angle.  My measured carry and total yardage were actually longer than the numbers that Trackman estimated.  He seemed surprised and so was I!

He wanted to see if we could improve on those numbers.  Because Ping changed their shaft adapters between the G400 and G425 series drivers, his in-stock demo shafts wouldn't fit my driver.   He picked out the updated G425 with four $400 driver shafts to see if we could get some extra yardage.  Interestingly enough, each of the shafts had similar numbers and traveled as far or slightly less than my gamer.  At that point, the fitter looked at me and said there's nothing I can do for you with the driver!  Of all the possible comments I anticipated, I didn't expect that!

On to the six iron.  I currently use Ping G30's with graphite Fujikura EXS 60i R2-Flex shafts that I bought used six years ago.  After about eight shots, we looked at the numbers.  My swing speed was expectedly down to 63 mph, but I maintained a respectable smash factor of 1.41.  My spin rate was just over 3900, launch angle of 22 degrees (dynamic loft of 26 degrees) and a minus attack angle.  He shook his head again and said those were pretty good numbers again outperforming the Trackman projected distances.  Plus, my shot dispersion was within less than 10 yards.  In an attempt to squeeze out a few extra yards we tried the Cleveland XL Halo irons with upgraded Accura and Baddazz shafts.  I was able to get an extra additional 5-6 yards but had a greater shot dispersion.  For $1700 for Cleveland XL Halo 5-PW irons with the upgraded shafts, purring and grips, the yardage gained (and lost with a wider dispersion) didn't seem like a good investment.

On to the putter.  He measured the loft and lie of my Evnroll Outback putter and it was unchanged.  To warm up and get a feel of their green I hit about a dozen putts, making about three.  With sensor attached and on the SAM Puttlab, I made seven of seven and the resulting numbers that did not disappoint!  Again, nothing to change here!  The only observation was that I made more putts with the added weight of the sensor, so I will likely try and added temporarily some lead or tungsten weights to the putter to see if it really made a difference. 

I had time remaining, I hit my 3, 5 and 7 fairway woods and my 5 hybrid to see if their respected distances fell in line.  Overall, the resulting distances where they needed to be.  One more positive outcome!

We finished up our session and the fitter printed up the upgrade Cleveland iron quote.   As much as I would like a new set of irons, I don't see myself trading off the slight increase in distance at the expense of a greater shot dispersion.  As I was waiting for my ride home, I thanked the fitter, gave him a tip and walked out without buying anything!  Though I set the expectation that I wasn't going to purchase anything that day, I declared a morale victory!  I realized that through dumb luck, I was able to assemble a set of gamers that worked best with my swing.  It was probably the best I've ever felt leaving a golf establishment.  

[DaveP043]

If you can go into Club Champion, have a fitting, spend only $100, and come out with a good set of clubs for you, thats a complete win.  Well done!

[RickyBobby_PR]

19 hours ago, Golf2Much said:

He wanted to see if we could improve on those numbers.  Because Ping changed their shaft adapters between the G400 and G425 series drivers, his in-stock demo shafts wouldn't fit my driver.   He picked out the updated G425 with four $400 driver shafts to see if we could get some extra yardage.  Interestingly enough, each of the shafts had similar numbers and traveled as far or slightly less than my gamer.  At that point, the fitter looked at me and said there's nothing I can do for you with the driver!  Of all the possible comments I anticipated, I didn't expect that!

More proof for those who read and think shafts are the magic pill. They just aren’t. Unless a person reacts bad to the feeling of he shaft or how it changes the balance of ten club, shafts aren’t going to add yardage 

And that upgraded or true aftermarket shafts aren’t automatically better then stock/no upcharge shafts.

[jbsap]

This is awesome to see. I’m someone who likes to tinker so it’s not uncommon for me to have an entirely different bag every 2 years or so. Always nice to see after fittings not being pushed to new product and getting verification that what you have works well. 

[release]

The chase for the greener pasture and the pot of gold at the end of the rainbow will be ongoing. 

$100+ tips plus the road trip will ensure you to come home with a stronger faith in your current equipment setup.   

[tony@CIC]

On 7/23/2022 at 2:10 PM, Golf2Much said:

I jumped on the Club Champion $100 full bag fitting promotion and had my appointment this week.  It's sort of a big deal as the closest Club Champion from Key West is in America 150 miles away.  To help with speeding up the introduction, I sent my fitter an email outlining my current bag contents, a summary of my game and the expectation that I wasn't in a position to purchase anything that day.  I arrived early which gave me adequate time to warm up.  I was conscience I could be hitting balls for over three hours, so I took my time and didn't hit too may shots.

I told the fitter I wanted to gain about 10+ yards on my driver, look for irons that may be a little longer and a bit more consistent and to remeasure the putter I got from Club Champion about a year prior to ensure it was still what I needed.  All things being equal, I was happy with my Callaway and Ping fairway woods and Edison wedges. 

We started with the driver.  As my signature suggests, I have a Ping G400 SFT driver with a $50 senior Matrix MFS 5 shaft made for the Korea market that I purchased on eBay.  This would be for my baseline.  After several swings, I was surprised by two things:  First, my swing speed was a little slower than I thought at roughly 72 mph.  What surprised me and the fitter was that my Smash Factor was a consistent 1.48 while hitting the virtual fairway on every shot.  My spin rate averaged 2350 rpm, launch angle about 18 degrees and 3 degree attack angle.  My measured carry and total yardage were actually longer than the numbers that Trackman estimated.  He seemed surprised and so was I!

He wanted to see if we could improve on those numbers.  Because Ping changed their shaft adapters between the G400 and G425 series drivers, his in-stock demo shafts wouldn't fit my driver.   He picked out the updated G425 with four $400 driver shafts to see if we could get some extra yardage.  Interestingly enough, each of the shafts had similar numbers and traveled as far or slightly less than my gamer.  At that point, the fitter looked at me and said there's nothing I can do for you with the driver!  Of all the possible comments I anticipated, I didn't expect that!

On to the six iron.  I currently use Ping G30's with graphite Fujikura EXS 60i R2-Flex shafts that I bought used six years ago.  After about eight shots, we looked at the numbers.  My swing speed was expectedly down to 63 mph, but I maintained a respectable smash factor of 1.41.  My spin rate was just over 3900, launch angle of 22 degrees (dynamic loft of 26 degrees) and a minus attack angle.  He shook his head again and said those were pretty good numbers again outperforming the Trackman projected distances.  Plus, my shot dispersion was within less than 10 yards.  In an attempt to squeeze out a few extra yards we tried the Cleveland XL Halo irons with upgraded Accura and Baddazz shafts.  I was able to get an extra additional 5-6 yards but had a greater shot dispersion.  For $1700 for Cleveland XL Halo 5-PW irons with the upgraded shafts, purring and grips, the yardage gained (and lost with a wider dispersion) didn't seem like a good investment.

On to the putter.  He measured the loft and lie of my Evnroll Outback putter and it was unchanged.  To warm up and get a feel of their green I hit about a dozen putts, making about three.  With sensor attached and on the SAM Puttlab, I made seven of seven and the resulting numbers that did not disappoint!  Again, nothing to change here!  The only observation was that I made more putts with the added weight of the sensor, so I will likely try and added temporarily some lead or tungsten weights to the putter to see if it really made a difference. 

I had time remaining, I hit my 3, 5 and 7 fairway woods and my 5 hybrid to see if their respected distances fell in line.  Overall, the resulting distances where they needed to be.  One more positive outcome!

We finished up our session and the fitter printed up the upgrade Cleveland iron quote.   As much as I would like a new set of irons, I don't see myself trading off the slight increase in distance at the expense of a greater shot dispersion.  As I was waiting for my ride home, I thanked the fitter, gave him a tip and walked out without buying anything!  Though I set the expectation that I wasn't going to purchase anything that day, I declared a morale victory!  I realized that through dumb luck, I was able to assemble a set of gamers that worked best with my swing.  It was probably the best I've ever felt leaving a golf establishment.  

Greta review!

Everything I read is that the 400 was better than the 410 and 425. Did you try different heads or just stick with the 425 with different shafts? Also different flex shafts? My experience was different at Club Champion in 2021 at the Brandon store, as  my gamer was a 410 SFT but the SIM 2 got me the extra distance. As reported in several other threads, I ended up not buying the SIM2 from them as their combo head and shaft was 900. I bought mine at Global golf for substantially less. In addition to the head, the other 'revelation' from my CC experience was that I had better results with lighter weight shafts - the Alta on my 410 = 65g.  The shaft in my SIM2 = 49g Airspeeder, both R flex. A couple of different thoughts:

I hate hitting indoors into a net. While my swing speed is not that much different than yours (high 70's-low 80's) I find that indoors - hitting into a screen,  my swing speed and carry numbers are drastically lower. I did a driver fitting at the PGASS in Sarasota this past winter and the numbers were so bad (with my SIM 2) that the fitter suggested I put away my driver and only hit a wood off of the tee. Wrong! My avg. drive based on Shotscope data is approx. 200 yds. and is the most consistent club in my bag. 

Everything you read online suggests that at our swing speed the only recommendation should be a senior shaft. My outdoor fitting in Ohio and the CC fitting both confirmed that a regular flex shaft had the best outcome and I do believe shaft weight makes a difference. 

Like yourself, I am looking for extra distance - so, I'm back onto the Superspeed sticks and corresponding protocols in the hope of gaining that extra distance - plus it's a lot cheaper. 

[Golf2Much]

2 hours ago, tony@CIC said:

Greta review!

Everything I read is that the 400 was better than the 410 and 425. Did you try different heads or just stick with the 425 with different shafts? Also different flex shafts? My experience was different at Club Champion in 2021 at the Brandon store, as  my gamer was a 410 SFT but the SIM 2 got me the extra distance. As reported in several other threads, I ended up not buying the SIM2 from them as their combo head and shaft was 900. I bought mine at Global golf for substantially less. In addition to the head, the other 'revelation' from my CC experience was that I had better results with lighter weight shafts - the Alta on my 410 = 65g.  The shaft in my SIM2 = 49g Airspeeder, both R flex. A couple of different thoughts:

I hate hitting indoors into a net. While my swing speed is not that much different than yours (high 70's-low 80's) I find that indoors - hitting into a screen,  my swing speed and carry numbers are drastically lower. I did a driver fitting at the PGASS in Sarasota this past winter and the numbers were so bad (with my SIM 2) that the fitter suggested I put away my driver and only hit a wood off of the tee. Wrong! My avg. drive based on Shotscope data is approx. 200 yds. and is the most consistent club in my bag. 

Everything you read online suggests that at our swing speed the only recommendation should be a senior shaft. My outdoor fitting in Ohio and the CC fitting both confirmed that a regular flex shaft had the best outcome and I do believe shaft weight makes a difference. 

Like yourself, I am looking for extra distance - so, I'm back onto the Superspeed sticks and corresponding protocols in the hope of gaining that extra distance - plus it's a lot cheaper. 

I hated losing my Ping 400 SFT driver.  It developed a little crack on the hostel where the loft angle can be adjusted.   It was a trusted companion!  @tony@CIC, as you know, it likely wasn't from our incredible swing speed and power!  The great Ping customer service worked with me, and I was able to try the 425 SFT.  Unfortunately, it was too draw bias for me.  Everything was left, often too far left!  Again, Ping was great and asked me to get fit with for a new G430.  I did and found the G430 Max with the Alta Quick light weight shaft worked the best for me.  Given my anemic swing speed, we never deviated from the Ping senior shafts during my fitting session.  They also use the lightweight Lamkin grip and lighter sliding weight in the back of the head.  In the testing, I averaged a few miles per hour faster and about ten yards longer with the G430 Max.  The 410 SFT listed on the top was really the G400 SFT.  The numbers are below.

I really like the sound of the G430 over the G425.  The G430 also has worked it's way back to being a my new "old reliable" off the tee.  It doesn't go too far (Shot Scope performance distance of 177 yards off the tee) and back to hitting over 75% of my fairways.  That's at or slightly better than the G400 SFT!

I've always thought about experimenting with a regular shaft to see what might happen.  

 

[tony@CIC]

1 hour ago, Golf2Much said:

I hated losing my Ping 400 SFT driver.  It developed a little crack on the hostel where the loft angle can be adjusted.   It was a trusted companion!  @tony@CIC, as you know, it likely wasn't from our incredible swing speed and power!  The great Ping customer service worked with me, and I was able to try the 425 SFT.  Unfortunately, it was too draw bias for me.  Everything was left, often too far left!  Again, Ping was great and asked me to get fit with for a new G430.  I did and found the G430 Max with the Alta Quick light weight shaft worked the best for me.  Given my anemic swing speed, we never deviated from the Ping senior shafts during my fitting session.  They also use the lightweight Lamkin grip and lighter sliding weight in the back of the head.  In the testing, I averaged a few miles per hour faster and about ten yards longer with the G430 Max.  The 410 SFT listed on the top was really the G400 SFT.  The numbers are below.

I really like the sound of the G430 over the G425.  The G430 also has worked it's way back to being a my new "old reliable" off the tee.  It doesn't go too far (Shot Scope performance distance of 177 yards off the tee) and back to hitting over 75% of my fairways.  That's at or slightly better than the G400 SFT!

I've always thought about experimenting with a regular shaft to see what might happen.  

 

Your comments are interesting, especially on the draw bias.  I'm still in Ohio working with the bag that I had set-up here which has the 410 SFT 65 g. shaft. I can't seem to hit the middle of the fairway with it unless I aim to the left (I'm a lefty). Everything else is a draw. I really like my SIM2 and it's worked well for me in Florida. In 2 weeks we'll be there permanently as we sold our Condo in Ohio. I'm really looking forward to getting the SIM2 back in my hands. My instructor ( a Ping guy) had me try the 430 with the 'Quick Alta' shaft - I believe it's 35g(?). The combo didn't work as I didn't like how heavy the head felt. However, I did seem to find the middle of the range so from that aspect it worked. I do like the sound of the 430 but I'm so use to the lower profile of the SIM that the 430 head is somewhat distracting. "Different strokes for different folks" I guess.  Do try a regular shaft - just for giggles. 

[release]

I know that you said you  "tip" the fitter.  It is definitely a minority in the business to not trying to upsell you things before you walked out of the store.

He will be the guy to revisit when you are in need of new golf equipment.  Referrals should be sent to him.