SwingU Golf App - 2023 Forum Review

[tdc1]

1 hour ago, DeBartola_B said:

When I attempt to enter the as shown in the screenshot it gives me an error message to double check my selections and giving me the option to “Fix Problems” or “Save anyway”.  I could not figure out how to properly enter this score and thus entered something that I don’t think is accurate.  Any Advice on how to address this moving forward?

@DeBartola_B I have encountered (and struggled with) the same issue.  

I would venture to guess that the app assumes shot #4 in your example is the actual "Approach Shot."  Since your shot #4 reached the green, you would not have a Chip/Pitch in this case.    

Of course, I could be completely out to lunch on this but @Wrong_Fairway will clear it up.

[Wrong_Fairway]

15 hours ago, DeBartola_B said:

Tester Update

Quick update on my Strokes Gained metrics after 4 18-hole rounds included.

Data input for 90% of the time is seamless and not an issue, especially on routine holes when you hit the tee ball in play and hit the green and 2 putt.  Very simple and moves quickly.  The biggest hold up I have so far is on Par 5s, I am not sure which shot is being categorized as the “approach” shot.  For me many times I am going for the green in 2 and hit from 225-250 in and many of those times (all of those times) I am missing the green.  I want to use a hole from my round yesterday to see if I am entering the data the correct way.

Below is a screen shot of the data entry screen and how I filled out the information for this hole compared to my shot-by-shot description as follows:

Shot 1 – Drive in the fairway.

Shot 2 – 3W from 250 landed in the creek to the left of the green.

Shot 3 – Drop

Shot 4 – 40-yard pitch to 20 feet.

Shot 5 – Putt to 3 feet.

Shot 6 – In the hole.

 

When I attempt to enter the as shown in the screenshot it gives me an error message to double check my selections and giving me the option to “Fix Problems” or “Save anyway”.  I could not figure out how to properly enter this score and thus entered something that I don’t think is accurate.  Any Advice on how to address this moving forward? @Wrong_Fairway

 

I also want to include a screenshot of how my Strokes Gained stats are showing after 4 completed rounds.

 

Though I do not think this is indicative of how my game plays out, I do think that this is pretty accurate for the last 4 rounds.  One thing that I think could be skewing the data a little is the fact that in the last 4 rounds I have a larger number of approaches that finished on the fringe.  As a result, these are balls that I am putting but not counting as a putt because the ball is on the green.  I think this has greatly exaggerated my putting ability and thus negatively affected my perceived approach ability.  I am not sure how to fix this in the data other than realizing that this is just over the course of 4 rounds and all things will typically regress to the mean.  Also, remarkable that you can struggle mightily in 3 of the 5 aspects of the game but that putter can bail you out.  All things said this data and stats it spits out at the end of every round is great, if you are numbers nerd like me then this is some awesome stuff.  Way more in depth than anything I have used in the past.

So happy you brought this up @DeBartola_B

Our No. 1 FAQ has to do with par-5s and approach shots, so let me make this point as clearly as possible...

Your approach shot in our system is YOUR FIRST ATTEMPT TO REALISTICALLY HIT THE GREEN. 

Oftentimes, this comes as your second shot into a par-4 or a third shot into a par-5, but not always! The reasoning for this is based upon properly crediting (or dinging) the various facets of the game. Without getting too into the weeds on a singular forum post, an easy example would be a poor drive requiring a pitch out.

On Tour, they consider both the pitch out and the subsequent shot an "approach," so a player would likely have a negative SG: Approach number for the pitch out and then a positive SG: Approach for the second, basically averaging out the shots required, ie. -0.8 for the pitch out, then +0.2 = -0.6 for approach while more or less absolving the true culprit - the drive. 

In our system, by calling your first realistic shot to hit the green your approach, we're able to discern that it's not your approach game that's hurting you on this hole - it was your poor drive.

Now... to answer your next question about data input, we again try to more specifically target the most accurate facet of the game for most amateur players. That means the system "expects" a layup shot on a par-5. However, if you're trying to reach in two - or get it up near the green - this will be your approach shot as it could realistically reach the green.

Another instance that is possible is a non-realistic chance to hit the green, whether that be distance-based - you hit a 3 wood from 275 to 35 yards to the green with no realistic expectation of hitting the green - or you're in some trouble off the tee, but you're able to advance the ball within 50 yards of the green. Both of these examples would result in a NONE approach as your goal here was to advance the ball, and you just so happened to do so very well. Therefore, this won't negatively impact your approach statistics, and won't artificially enhance your driving statistics.

All that is a long-winded way of explaining that, YES, you entered your par-5 data correctly in the example above. The Fix Problems / Save Anyway comes up because there are so many options and ways to play a hole. On a par-5, this is more or less asking you, "Are we understanding your data correctly?" because of the assumption of a layup. As such, your shot into the penalty area will then ding your approach facet - the shot from 250 into the creek (should be noted this will be a relatively small ding on approach given the length of it).

In your example, the Save Anyway is the correct prompt. 

Personally, I find these prompts show up mostly on drivable par-4s (NONE approach when you end up within 50 yards of the green), par-5s (when you're going for it in two) and when I forget to enter a short-game shot (chip/sand) because my total score doesn't match up with number of shots inputted.

So much for not getting too far into the weeds on this. Apologies for the novel, but hope this helps. 

cc @tdc1

[DeBartola_B]

@Wrong_Fairway Thanks for the quick response.

I actually went back and edited 2 holes from Tuesdays round from this information, it makes much more sense this way.

[acatalano32]

So I had my first round with verses, I definitely thought it was something playing against others or I would have turned it on my first round lol.

Definitely a learning curve for sure, took me a few holes to try and understand everything that it was asking. I do really like the stats it tracks. It was 102 degrees and I played after work, so I didn’t play my greatest round ever but hey, that’s golf.  

my approach play is definitely my weakness, I will be keeping verses on for the remainder of forever on this app

[Sluggo42]

I’ve had to give up on the “free” version unfortunately. I really like it, but the never ending freeze ups became too bothersome to continue trying. I’m pretty sure it’s the ads that are causing the problems…

hopefully the paid version doesn’t have this problem. But , it is what it is… 

[Wrong_Fairway]

On 7/23/2023 at 7:06 PM, Sluggo42 said:

I’ve had to give up on the “free” version unfortunately. I really like it, but the never ending freeze ups became too bothersome to continue trying. I’m pretty sure it’s the ads that are causing the problems…

hopefully the paid version doesn’t have this problem. But , it is what it is… 

Hate to hear that @Sluggo42. Thanks for giving it a look

[GolfSpy_APH]

For all the testers - What has been your favorite feature of the SwingU app so far?

[DeBartola_B]

5 hours ago, GolfSpy_APH said:

For all the testers - What has been your favorite feature of the SwingU app so far?

On course my favorite part is the green view showing distances every 3-5 yards on the green. This is much more in depth than just a front middle back distance and is a great visual to see where the fat part of the green is. 
 

Off the course the SG metrics are a lot of fun to dig into, I am looking forward to continuing to input more and more scores to see how the stats adjust.

[Bluesman57]

On 7/26/2023 at 3:56 AM, GolfSpy_APH said:

For all the testers - What has been your favorite feature of the SwingU app so far?

No contest. Strokes gained/relative handicap, with recommended drills.

[Dave73nl]

On 7/26/2023 at 9:56 AM, GolfSpy_APH said:

For all the testers - What has been your favorite feature of the SwingU app so far?

Favorite feature is the map of the course for me... I forgot how useful it is and use it all the time now. Okay other apps do have this feature too... ummm the info you get AFTER the round on the web with the stats and recommendations!

[MuniGolfer]

On 7/26/2023 at 1:56 AM, GolfSpy_APH said:

For all the testers - What has been your favorite feature of the SwingU app so far?

Oh man, tough to say. I have loved the focused drills. I feel like my practice is getting more beneficial. I also finally played a course with green maps the other day and it was game changing. I saved par a couple times when I couldn’t get a good read. The maps saved me. Showed me slope I wasn’t seeing. I am really wanting to play more courses with green maps now. Going to work on scheduling some over the next couple weeks.

[GolfSpy_APH]

Are there any specific drills it has recommended or suggested which you had never heard of before or never thought of doing before?

[MuniGolfer]

6 hours ago, GolfSpy_APH said:

Are there any specific drills it has recommended or suggested which you had never heard of before or never thought of doing before?

Yes, two actually. The first is a posture drill. I was working on posture, but just trying to feel my way into it. The app recommended one where you stand with the shaft of your club across your waist in your fingers so one hand is down near the head and the other is on or near the grip, your chest is proud and shoulders relaxed and down your back, then slide the club down your thighs as you bend from the waist and your knees, keeping the chest and shoulders in the same position, until the club is just above your knees. I work on it at the range and with short game practice. It puts me in such a much more relaxed position, but with good posture. I used to feel more stress in my lower back, but not now.

 The other is the old putting gate drill where you make a gate with two tees for your putter head to go through to help with more consistent center face contact. However, this one has me do it only left handed and from 3, 6, 9, and 12 feet. It is helping me really feel my stroke and let my bigger muscles control the distance better.

[Bluesman57]

On 7/23/2023 at 7:06 PM, Sluggo42 said:

I’ve had to give up on the “free” version unfortunately. I really like it, but the never ending freeze ups became too bothersome to continue trying. I’m pretty sure it’s the ads that are causing the problems…

hopefully the paid version doesn’t have this problem. But , it is what it is… 

FWIW, I've used the full version during my testing several times, and have not had a single instance of freezing.  Also, the app finds the correct hole much quicker than my GPS watch, especially with confusing/adjacent tee boxes.

[Bluesman57]

On 7/30/2023 at 7:03 PM, GolfSpy_APH said:

Are there any specific drills it has recommended or suggested which you had never heard of before or never thought of doing before?

My great area of weakness, as reported by the SwingU app, is chipping and pitching.  A couple of issues that I have (had?) are hitting them to the right, and the occasional, yet maddening thin, topped pitch.  Almost psychically, two videos that showed up for me addressed these very issues; both are very simple, and worked wonders for me.  First, I was, apparently, not setting my weight forward consistently.  The video simply instructed to use one's *nose* to shift the weight forward; that is moving the nose towards the target, and the weight follows.  It's also easy for me to lean to the left to point my nose at an area a couple of inches in front of the ball and verify that it stays there.  The other was even more simple.  I moved the ball back in my stance, which greatly reduces my tendency to hit thin shots to the right.  Now on to distance control!

[MuniGolfer]

31 minutes ago, Bluesman57 said:

My great area of weakness, as reported by the SwingU app, is chipping and pitching.  A couple of issues that I have (had?) are hitting them to the right, and the occasional, yet maddening thin, topped pitch.  Almost psychically, two videos that showed up for me addressed these very issues; both are very simple, and worked wonders for me.  First, I was, apparently, not setting my weight forward consistently.  The video simply instructed to use one's *nose* to shift the weight forward; that is moving the nose towards the target, and the weight follows.  It's also easy for me to lean to the left to point my nose at an area a couple of inches in front of the ball and verify that it stays there.  The other was even more simple.  I moved the ball back in my stance, which greatly reduces my tendency to hit thin shots to the right.  Now on to distance control!

It is crazy how the machine learning algorithms seem to predict your most likely flaw. My putting is not my worst stat, according to the strokes gained, but if you factor in that putting averages about 40% of your total strokes, my 3-putts are the first thing that needs to go. After every round, the app keeps recommending drills to help with that. They seem to be helping quite a bit, but I am also thinking I may need to get a putter fitting soon.

[acatalano32]

Another round in the books, playing decent. My proximity to the hole is close to 30’. Hard to make birdies when your first out is outside 3 basketball hoops.

I love using the watch and gps together, it has given me more confidence off the tee and into greens. If I had any sort of short game/ could hit a wedge closer then 20’ I’d be “dangerous” lol.

watch is a little laggy still but could be the courses I play are in the country. 

[acatalano32]

My only frustration with the club tracking is, if I hit a 150yard shot to the front of the green, then drive my cart around to the back of the green and walk back to my ball, the tracker doesn’t go back, it’ll say I hit my shot 180. It only seems to go up in yardage. It’s happened multiple times to me, so I had to cancel tracking the shot because it was 25 yards off

[Wrong_Fairway]

5 hours ago, acatalano32 said:

My only frustration with the club tracking is, if I hit a 150yard shot to the front of the green, then drive my cart around to the back of the green and walk back to my ball, the tracker doesn’t go back, it’ll say I hit my shot 180. It only seems to go up in yardage. It’s happened multiple times to me, so I had to cancel tracking the shot because it was 25 yards off

Hey @acatalano32, this is something that shouldn't be happening. I checked in with support as I haven't heard this issue before, and the suggestion was that, as you would expect, the watch should simply adjust distance - in this case, decrease as you move closer to the spot the shot was struck from - and then you could accurately end the shot tracking to get the correct distance. 

One quick suggestion from customer service was to make sure you have the locations permissions set to "Always" as opposed to "Only when using the app." when you have the app open. This shouldn't do anything to battery life, etc. (one of my concerns), but what it allows for in this instance, as well as others, is a quicker location tracking as it doesn't need to realign itself after a short cart ride or if the screen turns off. (This is also something that could be impacting your watch performance mentioned previously for similar reasons)

If you're still having issues, I'd love for you to shoot me a DM and we can coordinate your specific issues together.

[acatalano32]

24 minutes ago, Wrong_Fairway said:

Hey @acatalano32, this is something that shouldn't be happening. I checked in with support as I haven't heard this issue before, and the suggestion was that, as you would expect, the watch should simply adjust distance - in this case, decrease as you move closer to the spot the shot was struck from - and then you could accurately end the shot tracking to get the correct distance. 

One quick suggestion from customer service was to make sure you have the locations permissions set to "Always" as opposed to "Only when using the app." when you have the app open. This shouldn't do anything to battery life, etc. (one of my concerns), but what it allows for in this instance, as well as others, is a quicker location tracking as it doesn't need to realign itself after a short cart ride or if the screen turns off. (This is also something that could be impacting your watch performance mentioned previously for similar reasons)

If you're still having issues, I'd love for you to shoot me a DM and we can coordinate your specific issues together.

@Wrong_Fairway I’ll be playing again this week or weekend, I’ll purposefully pass my ball and go back to double check it has happened to me 4 or 5 times. I’ll change the app to always and try again

[tdc1]

To date, the most helpful aspects of the app have been shot-length tracking, and post-round summary.  
 

I guess a third would be the app's consistency in reminding me to work on approach shots from 150-175 yards — it’s almost like it knows I suck on those shots!

 

[MuniGolfer]

I dug into the round review more than I have on my others, and found I need to do that more. I really love the detailed breakdown and the info I am getting about my game.

 

Part of my weekly practice routine now includes reviewing the prescriptive drill from my most recent round and then reviewing my overall #1 improvement priority, see how the drill fits into or adds to what I am currently working on in those areas, and plan my practice time for the week. My putting and short game are both improving. It appears time to put some more focus on my approach and hope I can keep slowly improving on the other two with the work I am doing. I am really liking the shot tracking as well. I have a launch monitor to compare things when practicing, but in the course it’s been really nice to see the difference between my regular driver and my Otto phlex shaft will in play and be able to easily track averages. I like the tracking on SwingU far better than Golf Shot so far.

[GolfSpy_APH]

https://mygolfspy.com/news-opinion/partner-content/swing-u-golf-gps-and-stat-app-review/

 

Just dropped on the main site! 

[tdc1]

@GolfSpy_APH  Read Tony's review a few minutes ago.  Have I missed the deadline for submitting my tester review?

[DeBartola_B]

I was able to play a few rounds this last week where I have mostly been just practicing or playing 2-3 holes in the evening.  With that came some app updates and another questions I had for @Wrong_Fairway.  Forgive me if this has already been covered but I am curious about a few things.

1. Are the Handicap Level metrics weighted a certain way based on your handicap?  Trying to figure out how a blend like what is shown is calculated into the handicap that is shown?

 

 

2. This brings me to my next question, I am assuming that the Handicap Levels are using all data that we provide, whereas the handicap index is only using the top 8 scores, or however many used to calculate less than 20 rounds?

3. And finally, similar questions but for the SG vs Scratch stats.  Below are screenshots showing the round as a differential of a 4.4 but the SG vs Scratch show me losing 6.2 strokes.  Is this to assume that a typical scratch player would be expected to have a +1.8 differential on this course?

 

 

I know I am making a lot of assumptions here but just trying to get a better understanding of how these metrics are calculated.  Shot a PR 76 at this course on the first time I was playing it, I contribute a lot of that of being able to do some course research before thru the Course Explorer feature and using the GPS during the round to get some solid distances of spots to hit.  Loving this experience so far.

 

Thanks in advance for the response.

[acatalano32]

So I did get to play 9 over the weekend, and I played a course in the city, the watch shot tracking did work! I purposefully drove past my ball multiple times to then walk back and the distance adjusted. 

I do really like this app, I believe it has helped me pick better lines off the tee and be more confident with every shot 

[Wrong_Fairway]

On 8/21/2023 at 5:02 PM, DeBartola_B said:

I was able to play a few rounds this last week where I have mostly been just practicing or playing 2-3 holes in the evening.  With that came some app updates and another questions I had for @Wrong_Fairway.  Forgive me if this has already been covered but I am curious about a few things.

1. Are the Handicap Level metrics weighted a certain way based on your handicap?  Trying to figure out how a blend like what is shown is calculated into the handicap that is shown?

 

 

2. This brings me to my next question, I am assuming that the Handicap Levels are using all data that we provide, whereas the handicap index is only using the top 8 scores, or however many used to calculate less than 20 rounds?

3. And finally, similar questions but for the SG vs Scratch stats.  Below are screenshots showing the round as a differential of a 4.4 but the SG vs Scratch show me losing 6.2 strokes.  Is this to assume that a typical scratch player would be expected to have a +1.8 differential on this course?

 

 

I know I am making a lot of assumptions here but just trying to get a better understanding of how these metrics are calculated.  Shot a PR 76 at this course on the first time I was playing it, I contribute a lot of that of being able to do some course research before thru the Course Explorer feature and using the GPS during the round to get some solid distances of spots to hit.  Loving this experience so far.

 

Thanks in advance for the response.

Great questions, @DeBartola_B. I'll answer them in the order you asked:

 

1. Your SwingU handicap/target handicap is irrelevant to the relative handicap numbers shown above. We are generating these numbers based purely off the results of your shots vs. our database of over a million rounds, and assigning them an individual relative handicap for each facet. 

To give a singular example using Driving, an easy way to understand these numbers is to think of each facet as a standalone. In other words, if there were no other parts of the game other than driving, your handicap would be around a 17. This is based off your average strokes gained vs. scratch.

To go further, looking at your round shared from The Chimneys in #3, your SG: Driving vs. Scratch was -3.1. For that round, your relative handicap for driving was 15. That's to say that if you lose 3.1 strokes to scratch every round driving the ball, if driving were the only part of the game, you would be a 15 handicap. Let me know if that makes sense.

 

2. This is the correct assumption. The "handicap levels" are what we refer to often as "relative handicaps," or what was discussed in #1. Your SwingU handicap or handicap index - however you'd like to refer to it - is a facsimile to the GHIN handicap, using a formula based off course rating/slope and differential. These are two separate things.

 

3. This one is an interesting one, and to be honest, one I needed a little schooling on to understand why these numbers aren't zeroing out, ie. you shot 4-over par, why isn't your SG vs. scratch -4.0. 

The short answer is that every hole in our system starts with an assumed value of par, ie. a par-4 has a 4.0 value. However, as we know a 490-yard par-4 and a 315-yard par-4 are not created equally and 99 times out of 100 will play to a different stroke average. 

To account for this, we use an algorithm that takes into account the course rating and slope. The strokes gained values we have in the system are similar to what you'll see from a GHIN handicap differential, but not apples to apples, which is why you're seeing a larger negative SG vs. scratch number than the 4.4 differential used for your handicap.

Put differently, if you shot the same 76 at The Chimneys from a longer set of tees with a course rating and slope of, say 73.5/130 vs. the 71.1/125, your SG vs. scratch would likely be less than the 4-over par you shot.

More often than not, the score to par, differential and SG vs. scratch will be relatively close, but likely not the exact same. 

 

Let me know your thoughts on that or any further questions you may have. As always, happy to move to a DM or phone call if it would be more beneficial.

 

[DeBartola_B]

Yes I am following for the most part.

There is still one point of disconnection for me.  I was referencing the 4.4 differential of the round as relating to scratch not the +4 in relation to par.  Wouldn't the slope and course rating already pre-determine that number for me?  For example I shot 76 or 4 over par and the Handicap system gave me a differential of 4.4 so it already accounted for 0.4 strokes based on the difficulty of the course.  So the GHIN rating system is already adjusting that number based on how they define "scratch".  I don't understand how you could lose more strokes to scratch than the differential you carded.

I guess I am asking if the definition of scratch when using the SG metrics is different than the definition of scratch on a course by course 0.0 differential basis?  Like according to the data collected by SwingU scratch players would they typically score better than a 0.0 differential at that particular course?

[Sluggo42]

I just wanted to post an update to my experience with the free version. I had previously been experiencing numerous freeze ups, to the point of abandoning the app.

so last week I accidentally opened it and decided what the heck, let’s give it a new chance and see if it’s still the same.

Happily, I had a completely trouble free round, and then used it again the next day with only one very short glitch.

needless to say, it’s back as my preferred gps/scorekeeper app. I always double check with my laser out of habit, and what that’s doing is to help get nano-exact on yardages, and is helping me be better at guesstimates based on flag color, to where I’m starting to get pretty good at it. The scorecard is super easy to use, and automatically changes to the next hole after entry.

and perhaps my favorite function is the shot tracker. It’s super easy to use, and lets you select a club.

to finish up here, this free version of this app has been fixed, and is now the best IMHO of the free gps scorekeeper apps out there, and trust me, I’ve tried many.

[Wrong_Fairway]

On 8/25/2023 at 3:29 PM, DeBartola_B said:

Yes I am following for the most part.

There is still one point of disconnection for me.  I was referencing the 4.4 differential of the round as relating to scratch not the +4 in relation to par.  Wouldn't the slope and course rating already pre-determine that number for me?  For example I shot 76 or 4 over par and the Handicap system gave me a differential of 4.4 so it already accounted for 0.4 strokes based on the difficulty of the course.  So the GHIN rating system is already adjusting that number based on how they define "scratch".  I don't understand how you could lose more strokes to scratch than the differential you carded.

I guess I am asking if the definition of scratch when using the SG metrics is different than the definition of scratch on a course by course 0.0 differential basis?  Like according to the data collected by SwingU scratch players would they typically score better than a 0.0 differential at that particular course?

This one is more complicated, but the short answer to this question - "I guess I am asking if the definition of scratch when using the SG metrics is different than the definition of scratch on a course by course 0.0 differential basis?" - is yes. 

Note that the rating on this course is 71.1 or -0.9 under par. If we're looking directly at differential based on rating, your 76 should technically be +4.9. However, the slope has taken that 0.5 gap and made the differential 4.4, so these are slightly off as well.

Similarly, our SG metrics have their own formula that determines "scratch" based upon the rating/slope and your score at a particular course.

It comes down to an aggregation of hole-by-hole statistics, ie. each par-4 in our system is given a 4.0 SG value assumption even though we know that not every par-4 is created equally. Some should really be par 4.5s or par 3.5s in some situations.

This is the danger of getting too into the weeds on any one round of golf as you can draw incomplete or skewed conclusions whereas the system is designed to identify weaknesses / low-hanging fruit for improvement over numerous rounds.