Why I Drop So Many Shots

[Tony Covey MGS]

In a recent status update I mentioned putting my driver in timeout, playing better (and still hitting a couple balls OB).

 

Forum Member JBones replied and politely pointed out that I seem to hit the ball OB quite a bit. He's right, and while I do get wild from time to time, my home course shares some of the blame. With a course rating of 129 from the Whites (my tees), it's one of the more difficult in the area, and quite frankly, that slope doesn't accurately reflect the narrower than average fairways, and ridiculous amount of OB.

 

With the exception of Saratoga National (130 from Whites, 141 from the Blues, 147 from the Tips) it's the most difficult course in the area (by plenty).

 

Before joining, the course I played with regularity has a slope of 124 from the whites. When I play there now, a bad day is usually 3+ strokes better than a good day at my home course. It can be taxing some days, but the difficulty level (which doesn't accurately translate to the handicap system) means I get more strokes than I probably should when I play anywhere else. It also means that guys don't get the strokes they probably should when they play my course for the first time.

 

Anyway...just so you guys get a feel for what I'm up against on a weekly basis, here's the sky view of my home course. I've added lines for OB (white) and lateral hazards (red) excluding bunkers.

[JBones]

Forum Member JBones replied and politely pointed out that I seem to hit the ball OB quite a bit.

When I first saw that, I thought it said "Former Member JBones", I was like "damn, I said 'No offense'. LOL

 

I couldn't handle playing a course like that on a regular basis. I've made it pretty known on here that I hit it long off the tee, but I'm not very accurate. It just wouldn't be fun to play a course like that regularly. Here is an overhead of the course that I was talking about (Indian Springs). You can see that it is similar. This is also the course where I hit my 406yd drive, which I highlighted the path in blue (I probably underestimated the hook). I shot an 89 on this course and I didn't lose a ball. After about the first 5 holes, we started playing OB as a lateral, because we were missing fairways by less than 10yds and ending up OB, if it wasn't for that, I probably shoot closer to 100. I don't plan on playing this course again.....EVER.

 

[GolfSpy WD]

We have a course in the area that's similar. It's a Donald Ross design and pretty well maintained. However, the fairways feel like they are the width of two club lengths and all on 60* slopes. I don't know anyone that doesn't lose a ball on this course. Every other hole has blind shots to boot.

 

http://maps.google.com/maps?q=newton+commonwealth&ll=42.343526,-71.173017&spn=0.010103,0.021865&oe=utf-8&client=firefox-a&fb=1&gl=us&hq=newton+commonwealth&hnear=Cambridge,+Massachusetts&t=h&z=16

 

The course has a slope of 117, but I'm of the opinion that the people who calculate slope don't take into account terrain slope (ironically), fairway width, blind shots, and put too much emphasis on course length.

 

My solution, play a different course

[JMiller]

In a recent status update I mentioned putting my driver in timeout, playing better (and still hitting a couple balls OB).

 

Forum Member JBones replied and politely pointed out that I seem to hit the ball OB quite a bit. He's right, and while I do get wild from time to time, my home course shares some of the blame. With a course slope rating of 129 from the Whites (my tees), it's one of the more difficult in the area, and quite frankly, that slope doesn't accurately reflect the narrower than average fairways, and ridiculous amount of OB.

 

With the exception of Saratoga National (130 from Whites, 141 from the Blues, 147 from the Tips) it's the most difficult course in the area (by plenty).

 

Before joining, the course I played with regularity has a slope of 124 from the whites. When I play there now, a bad day is usually 3+ strokes better than a good day at my home course. It can be taxing some days, but the difficulty level (which doesn't accurately translate to the handicap system) means I get more strokes than I probably should when I play anywhere else. It also means that guys don't get the strokes they probably should when they play my course for the first time.

 

Anyway...just so you guys get a feel for what I'm up against on a weekly basis, here's the sky view of my home course. I've added lines for OB (white) and lateral hazards (red) excluding bunkers.

 

From the sounds of things if you are hitting a lot of balls OB / Lost Balls that require a stroke & distance Penalty then you might be approaching the hole improperly in terms of strategy and course management, I think that is what JBones sort of pointed out in a nice way. When the hole seems easier to score on then what you make on average it is time to rethink the hole in terms of strategy.

 

Without having course distances, par of each hole, numbers to different things like bunkers plus your average distances with all clubs I really can't help you much on course strategy. For me playing a new course, I simply look at where the biggest places on each hole I can't not go and develop a strategy to avoid those places at all costs including scrubbing distance off the tee to find a fairway. It appears that you need to start even going down from fairway metal on a few holes for position reasons.

[dru_]

This is really kind of a fun and good idea. The courses we play really impact what we consider the 'norm'. Below is my home course.

 

 

My penalties almost all come from a few holes.

 

#2, right side off the tee ( historically, no penalties here since the swing rework )

#4, water to the right, can roll from the green into the water if you don't play to the left side of the green

#5, oh how I love to hate this hole (I've blown it up to isolate why I have so many issues with it)

#14, skins game gamble, at 260, the high risk- high reward shot is straight away, over the trees on the right, leaving a short chip approach. The right play is a 6 iron to the left, and a 6 or 7 up the hill to the green. Skins games are not conducive to conservative play, so yeah, I've taken a lot of penalties here (but also made some good cash)

#15, the safe landing zone for the tee shot leaves a long 300 up hill to the green, the aggressive 260+ tee shot flirts with the trees, the bunkers and OB right. What could go wrong here!

#16, the skins game trap hole. This hole has historically made me the most money, but also cost me the most strokes. You can't see it from the bird's eye, but there is a 40 foot deep valley between the fairway and green after thhe dog leg left. Over the trees with driver is 250, and a good chance for eagle (which when you are over an 18, is a 2/1 on a par 4 after a series of holes that are notorious for pushing)

 

 

#5, the bane of my golf game...

 

 

Well, to start with, we have the elevated tee box that sets you up to pull it left into the trees. The ideal line is just right of the green target box, into the steep hill marked in orange. Everything between the tee box and that landing zone is rough, and it sits 10-15 feet below that landing zone. If you are left, that is a hill that will kick you into the creek beyond the lateral line. hitting into the hill on the right you are risking getting hung up in the rough bermuda, That hill on the right is about 40 feet tall, and pre swing change I played from the top of it pretty regularly. I tend to play this a little closer to that sand trap than the green target marker, as I would rather take a 6i on the second shot than a 3h. I can't safely get to the green in 2, because of that 100 foot tall Loblolly pine tree sitting smack in the middle of the approach just past the 2nd shot target. Again everything left is going swimming in the creek (crick here in the south). The right side lateral is equally nasty as it is the lowest point in the new 9. It is always damp, filled with lily's and decorative grasses. While it is a hazard, and you can play from it, the trick is 'if you can find your ball' which is very much a crap shoot in all that. It is to the point where most players on this course will give a cursory look and take the drop as the ball is presumed MIA. At this point, I'm out of the penalty/lost ball danger zones for this hole, but as often as not, you will see players recording 8's and 9's here, because by the time they lost one, taken the penalty, recovered worked around the tree and putted out, they are frustrated and have mentally failed the hole.

 

Interestingly, the course is not considered to be that hard as it's short and only has 68.3/129, but it is narrow, and I absolutely love playing it :-)

[Tony Covey MGS]

From the sounds of things if you are hitting a lot of balls OB / Lost Balls that require a stroke & distance Penalty then you might be approaching the hole improperly in terms of strategy and course management, I think that is what JBones sort of pointed out in a nice way. When the hole seems easier to score on then what you make on average it is time to rethink the hole in terms of strategy.

 

 

And that's the new plan. Assuming normal conditions (tees not too far back, not much wind), I'll hit the fairway on 1, 2 (maybe), 7, 12, 14, and 16. Some wind and I might hit the fairway on 17 as well.

 

Everything else is hybrids (or irons on short par 3s - we have 2 par 3s that regularly play 220+ so irons aren't an option there).

 

What I've started to notice is that there's very little correlation between how long my tee shot is and my score for the hole. I can make birdie with a 220 yard tee shot, and a 7 with a 275 yard drive. When you're talking about the difference between hitting a pitching wedge into a green or an 8-iron, the accuracy difference is minimal.

 

We've got 3 years worth of data that shows that for most golfers (including 4 and 5 HCPs), short irons are only minimally more accurate than middle irons (we're talking about less than 3 feet in most cases). It might amount to a putt or two over the course of a round, but the benefit of playing from the fairway easily outweighs that.

 

 

[Super Tuna]

I actually love the look of that course T and it's gone on my list to play some day. I much prefer courses that require precise shot placement over bomb and gouge tour style golf.

 

Dru_: I was eyeballing that course and at first I thought it was quite spread out. Funny how it doesn't look nearly as much as I thought after eyeballing Westwood Plateau where I play a lot of my golf.

 

#5 certainly looks like it wants to bite people constantly.

[Flv02]

I feel your pain T. I get A LOT of penalties as well. Here is my course, The Links at Union Vale. See that star in between 4 in 9? I put that there to show you that the brown color it is on, that is all over the course, is like the rough you saw in the Open last week. It is not as tight to the fairway as it was to the Open, but you either cannot find it in there or cannot get it out. That stuff is everywhere and it sucks. Thats why there is no OB or hazard on 17. If you miss the fairway, you lose your ball.

[revkev]

You guys are killing me with these maps - I just can't do that sort of thing - You're making me feel very old.

 

At any rate it sounds like T has the right idea - it does amaze me how little driving distance matters for me as well - In thinking about the lowest rounds that I've shot - the one's in the 60's, I don't really remember distance playing a major roll - I remember putts made, chip ins, stuffed approaches but not a series of thunderous drives. Normally driver is one of my strongest clubs but not because I hit it so far but rather because I have a great deal of control over it an am very consistent with it. I could probably hitting it on lots of holes where others wouldn't dare to if I wanted.

 

I will say that I hit driver one less time today than normal for me simply by being a part of this site. Our second hole is a 510 yard par 5 that is rarely reachable in 2 for me or really for most players except in the spring time when it's dry. I've missed the fairway in my 3 post pneumonia rounds (1 of which wasn't completed because of a rain storm.) Today I said, 3 wood 215, 5 wood 200, wedge - went right to plan except that it's a huge green and the pin was way back so I had to hit 9 iron instead of wedge.

 

So leave the driver in the bag, hit more fairways and take fewer penalties, all you'll get will be lower scores and a lower handicap.

[RoverRick]

T, I looked your course up on Mobitee, which is the app I use to plan my rounds at a different course. I do not think I would use driver on any hole except 7. It appears to need all you can throw at it off the tee box but at least there is no ob long left. Easy to see why it is the hardest handicap hole. Looks like a fun course, I prefer courses where I have to hit something besides driver off of the tee box.

 

 

At my course yesterday I hit the 4 iron off of the tee 10 times, and today I hit it 8.

[revkev]

T, I looked your course up on Mobitee, which is the app I use to plan my rounds at a different course. I do not think I would use driver on any hole except 7. It appears to need all you can throw at it off the tee box but at least there is no ob long left. Easy to see why it is the hardest handicap hole. Looks like a fun course, I prefer courses where I have to hit something besides driver off of the tee box.

 

 

At my course yesterday I hit the 4 iron off of the tee 10 times, and today I hit it 8.

 

 

If I had a 4 iron I would hit it early and often - at least until it started to holler, "I give!!!!!" :angry:

 

And to think there was a time when I loved my Ram tour grind 2 iron - 225 down the middle nearly every time - At least that's how I remember it.

[dru_]

The course was closed for maint yesterday so I hit the range for a bit.. 100 balls. 25 with driver, one slice. 25 with 2h, 14 hooks. 25 with 3 h, 12 hooks one slice. 25 with 6 -9 nothing outside the normal 5-10 yard range.

 

It just makes you scratch your head sometimes

Love and hate of a game

[RoverRick]

If I had a 4 iron I would hit it early and often - at least until it started to holler, "I give!!!!!" :angry:

 

And to think there was a time when I loved my Ram tour grind 2 iron - 225 down the middle nearly every time - At least that's how I remember it.

 

 

I have been hitting that 4 iron so well, I am very tempted to purchase a 2 and a 3 iron. The problem is just when I think I am ready to pull the trigger, I find myself, after a very poor tee shot, 225 from the flag, with water and two big trees between me and the green into a slight breeze, less than 7 mph. I could not even really see the green but I just glimpse it through the trees. Not to mention I am on the sixth teebox, playing hole 12, with a group of guys (5) I play with during the week standing there watching me play this shot because it is right between the tee markers they were playing. I hit a beautiful 19* hybrid that goes very high clears the tree with no problem and lands on the green like a hackey sack to the cheers of my gallery. And I realize that a 2 iron will not get that high. But I am hitting this 4 iron 210 off the tee and right at 200 off the deck and have no fear. But I was watching one on eBay but it went out of my price range today.

[revkev]

I would imagine that a 4 iron is a very valuable club in Texas - I would opt for the hybrid still as I can hit a very nice low draw with my 19 all day - I have not been good with my long irons since I changed my swing about 25 years ago - I fully recognize that there are plenty of other golfers who are very effective with them.

 

I was commenting on my game or lack there of. :blink:

[skihippy]

OK guys I am not going to get as detailed as the most of you. Just please do me a favor and look at the elevation changes-and yes the ninth fairway does go back across the road...

[RoverRick]

OK guys I am not going to get as detailed as the most of you. Just please do me a favor and look at the elevation changes-and yes the ninth fairway does go back across the road...

 

 

WTF are you talking about. I have looked 4 times to see if I missed the first part of this conversation and seem to be at a loss or just plain stupid. Ok, I will grant you elevation changes are important. I laugh every time I play at my course because people do not seem to pay attention to elevation changes on certain holes. The change is so gradual that they are always short on holes 7 and 8.

 

I have also looked at all the pictures of golf courses and looked for the first part of this conversation and none of the 9th fairways shown "go back across the road"...

 

They say brevity is the soul of wit, and you were certainly breif, but I must be dimwitted.