Changing the Course?

[Trout Bum]

I was thinking about Jack and Tiger's thoughts on rolling the ball back and it certainly made me think about other options other than making 8000 and 8500 yd courses.

 

Even if we tightened the fairways and added more hazards it still wouldn't be enough, they'd still rarely use long irons with the exception of crazy long par 5s.

 

It's kind of a quagmire, what can they do to roll back the bomb anbd gouge golf that we see weekly now? Is this the new era and it's here to stay? Does it even matter?

 

 

[silver & black]

Short of dialing back the ball, I think we are in the age of bomb and gouge.... for better or worse, it's here to stay.

[revkev]

Just doesn't bother me - it is what it is. Anyway as so many have noted a modern 4 iron is the rough equivalent of a 2 iron three decades ago.

 

We've seen enough examples of tough course set ups at around 7000 K yards to convince us that it is not only about distance.

 

 

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[Kor.A.Door]

I think that the committees for all the tour events can set the course up however they want in order to get the score results they want. If they want the final scores to be -10, then they set the course up that way, if they want the score to be around even par, they do it that way. They don't have to make The courses longer, or change the ball. Make it so they can't play from the rough. Every year we see this happen at certain courses.

[AH1980MN]

It's the same with every sport- players are bigger, faster, stronger, more singly focused, better. In my day, if a player ran you into the boards, you got up and dropped the gloves. Now days these guys are so big and fast that if a guy runs you into the boards you're lucky if you get up at all. Accept it, the game changes, and we do with it or we become irrelevant. Don't roll back the ball or bifurcate the rules- we play the same game top to bottom. Tee it up for sure, and tighten the pro courses if you want, but we've limited alot already, and no one wants to play a game with a muzzle on.

[tommc23]

The boards hurt a little more now than they use to. Guess that happens when you get older

 

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[AH1980MN]

Especially when you've got a 220lb freshman on your back.

[revkev]

15 today was pretty cool 281 yard drop cable par 4 and there were very few birdies.

 

If you have a course that is flexible and set up to give guys choices and then throw in a little wind it's still plenty tough. I thought they could have shaved the banks and made it really tough.

 

The rough was just right - it kept them guessing - throw in a 20 mph wind and that was some challenging golf.

 

 

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[Dockout]

This is an interesting predicament. If growing the game is important I don't know if making it "less exciting" to newcomers is a good idea. Shorter drives can be less exciting. Also, just because someone has trained, worked and learned which has allowed them to bomb the ball, why try and take that away with a different ball. Should we raise the rim in the NBA? Narrow the goal posts in the NFL? Remember that the Zach Johnsons of the tour can still compete without bombing a 350 yard drive. Players that have separated themselves shouldn't be penalized.

 

 

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[Berg Ryman]

I think it's an interesting question to be sure. If you make the golf ball shorter, probably by making it spin a bit more on long shots, it only gives an advantage to those who are already long. It turns a situation where some guys are hitting 8 irons and some wedge on par 4s to a situation where the longer guys are hitting 8 iron and the shorter hitter is hitting a long iron or a hybrid. I also don't think the answer is to trick up the greens either, as that leads to super defensive putting and less fun. Maybe the call is to tighten golf course, force the lay-up to raise scoring, but that feels like a cop-out in my opinion.

 

It's weird really, golf is the only sport we play and watch where we ask the professionals to play a game close to the style we play at home to feel invested. We marvel at the athleticism of professional athletes like football players who make acrobatic catches, basketball players with range and dunks we can't image, baseball players with incredible hand eye coordination and flaming arm strength, but for golf, we want to feel like pros are going through our problems. It's weird I guess.

[alfriday101]

This is an interesting predicament. If growing the game is important I don't know if making it "less exciting" to newcomers is a good idea. Shorter drives can be less exciting. Also, just because someone has trained, worked and learned which has allowed them to bomb the ball, why try and take that away with a different ball. Should we raise the rim in the NBA? Narrow the goal posts in the NFL? Remember that the Zach Johnsons of the tour can still compete without bombing a 350 yard drive. Players that have separated themselves shouldn't be penalized.

 

 

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http://www.oregonlive.com/nfl/index.ssf/2016/07/nfl_considering_narrowing_widt.html

 

http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap3000000461139/article/2015-pro-bowl-to-feature-narrowed-goal-posts

 

 

Your argument actually cuts the other way than you intend.  In football, the kickoff now comes from the 35.  For most of the time football has been played, it was from the 40.  For field goals, the rules in college used to allow a flat tee to be used, now all kicks must be off the ground.  In baseball, metal bats aren't allowed in the majors.  The height of the pitching mound has gone up and down in response to more powerful pitchers and hitters.  In basketball, the three point line was added.  Other sports do change the rules and limit equipment to keep the game from changing too much.

 

Also, the statement "why try and take that away with a different ball" shows you really haven't thought it through.  A shorter ball does not mean the players will be hitting it equal distances.  The long hitters will still outhit the short hitters.   If DJ hits it the current ball two clubs farther than Zack, he will hit the new ball two clubs farther than Zack.  That doesn't change.  it's just the over all distance that changes.   

[Dockout]

http://www.oregonlive.com/nfl/index.ssf/2016/07/nfl_considering_narrowing_widt.html

 

http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap3000000461139/article/2015-pro-bowl-to-feature-narrowed-goal-posts

 

 

Your argument actually cuts the other way than you intend. In football, the kickoff now comes from the 35. For most of the time football has been played, it was from the 40. For field goals, the rules in college used to allow a flat tee to be used, now all kicks must be off the ground. In baseball, metal bats aren't allowed in the majors. The height of the pitching mound has gone up and down in response to more powerful pitchers and hitters. In basketball, the three point line was added. Other sports do change the rules and limit equipment to keep the game from changing too much.

 

Also, the statement "why try and take that away with a different ball" shows you really haven't thought it through. A shorter ball does not mean the players will be hitting it equal distances. The long hitters will still outhit the short hitters. If DJ hits it the current ball two clubs farther than Zack, he will hit the new ball two clubs farther than Zack. That doesn't change. it's just the over all distance that changes.

Most of the changes you listed were to make the game more exciting. 3 point line, 35 yard kick off. Or for safety reasons: metal bats, tees on the field. They were not made to reign in the game. A shorter golf ball is just less exciting. I understand very well that the ball does not level the playing field in regards to distance. I was under the assumption that the courses would stay the same length not get shorter which means longer approaches for everyone. Less greens in regulation, less driving greens, etc. I know it's all relative but could be less exciting for people.

 

 

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[alfriday101]

 A shorter golf ball is just less exciting. 

 

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Why?  

[Dockout]

Why?

I should restate that a shorter ball could be less exciting for new golfers. In my original post I talked about growing the game and making it less exciting to new golfers may not be a good idea. If we go from watching pros bomb it out to 350 to "bombing" it to 290 I think the game takes a step back in attracting new golfers. Personally, I could care less about distance. I love iron and wedge game. That to me is exciting.

 

 

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[AH1980MN]

Slowing the ball works in percentages, so the short hitters will be more penalized.

[Dockout]

Slowing the ball works in percentages, so the short hitters will be more penalized.

Exactly

 

 

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[tony@CIC]

I should restate that a shorter ball could be less exciting for new golfers. In my original post I talked about growing the game and making it less exciting to new golfers may not be a good idea. If we go from watching pros bomb it out to 350 to "bombing" it to 290 I think the game takes a step back in attracting new golfers. Personally, I could care less about distance. I love iron and wedge game. That to me is exciting.

 

 

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You're spot on. It's the iron and wedge game plus I'll add strategy that makes it interesting for me

 

 

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[Dockout]

You're spot on. It's the iron and wedge game plus I'll add strategy that makes it interesting for me

 

 

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Strategy, yes! I have such an appreciation for people that know a course, make smart decisions and execute a plan. Fun to watch. But again, this is probably lost (understandably) on the 14 year old kid just picking up the game.

 

 

 

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[revkev]

The problem is not that golf is too easy. Any rule that is made that makes the game more difficult is a mistake IMO. People don't quit playing golf because it's too easy.

 

There have been two controversial rule changes in the last five or six years. Those changes were intended to preserve the integrity of the game.

 

But they appeared to make the game more difficult and more expensive - we had to purchase new equipment to play by the new rules.

 

Subsequent to those changes there are fewer people playing and learning to play golf. Are there other factors, too, probably, but it's interesting that no one mentions those rule changes as contributing factors to the game's decline.

 

Continuing to make decisions that address perceived issues at the very top end of the game will kill it.

 

Too hard, too expensive, too time consuming - those are the factors driving golf down. Any rule change made that appears to perpetuate those perceptions is not helpful IMO.

 

Leave the ball alone until Joe Hacker is the one threatening par.

 

 

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[Kenny B]

The problem is not that golf is too easy. Any rule that is made that makes the game more difficult is a mistake IMO. People don't quit playing golf because it's too easy.

 

There have been two controversial rule changes in the last five or six years. Those changes were intended to preserve the integrity of the game.

 

But they appeared to make the game more difficult and more expensive - we had to purchase new equipment to play by the new rules.

 

Subsequent to those changes there are fewer people playing and learning to play golf. Are there other factors, too, probably, but it's interesting that no one mentions those rule changes as contributing factors to the game's decline.

 

Continuing to make decisions that address perceived issues at the very top end of the game will kill it.

 

Too hard, too expensive, too time consuming - those are the factors driving golf down. Any rule change made that appears to perpetuate those perceptions is not helpful IMO.

 

Leave the ball alone until Joe Hacker is the one threatening par.

 

 

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I agree with most of what you say Rev; too hard, too expensive, too time consuming.  However, those are not the main reasons why players quit the game, but they are major factors why new golfers don't take up the game.  

 

Too Hard -  players today mostly accept that the game is hard, and have either embraced the challenge and accepted their game or look for courses that maybe fit their game better.  New players see the pros on TV shooting great scores, try to emulate them on the course, shoot a million, get frustrated, give up.  Most don't want to invest the effort to get to a level in the game that they feel can be enjoyed.

 

Too Expensive -  yes, golf is an expensive game, but people that like playing the game have adjusted to their monetary level.  Clubs don't have to be expensive unless you always want the latest and greatest; inexpensive courses exist in most communities and deals can be found online.  For someone just starting the game it probably looks very expensive if they buy into the hype of OEM when buying clubs and paying for greens fees, particularly in light of the Too Hard result discussed above.  But there are many other activities today that can be just as expensive or more so.

 

Too Time Consuming -  unfortunately, this is probably the #1 reason why people don't take up the game.  Patience is lost in the world today.  People have too many other things to do with four hours, six or seven hours more than likely if they show up early and play at the beginning  level where they think it's Too Hard.  However, I don't feel that this is why people give up the game, unless they just lost interest for other reasons.  Golfers find ways to accommodate this sport into their schedule.  

 

I honestly don't think equipment is a big issue affecting how the game is played, but I think that the rules do have a big impact.  The rules are relatively simple; the interpretation of the rules have been convoluted, and the recent rule changes are indicative of that.  People taking up the game do not know the rules, and many who have played the game for years either don't know the rules either or have chosen to ignore them.

 

I believe that many of golf's issues today could be solved by proper course design, maintenance, and management; not changing the ball or the clubs.  Courses can be set up hard or easy; it's up to management to decide who their clientele is.  People will gravitate to the courses that fits their skill and enjoyment level.  

 

Sorry for being so long-winded.  Maybe I should have put this into the rant thread.