NFL thread! What are you thinking?

[bens197]

Just now, KC Golf said:

The Jets Vs Bills game was surprisingly entertaining last night.  I was figuring that Buffalo would blow the Jets out.  The missed kicks were crazy.

i think this year, the protecting the QB rules is getting out of hand. It’s like the QB is off limits like it should be two hand tag. 

At least someone enjoyed it!

It was painful.  No tempo, constant penalties.  I found myself in the first half saying "that wasn't even a penalty" for uncatchable passes among other things.  That crew was brutal and shouldn't be calling games after that debacle.  

8 minutes ago, Berg Ryman said:

Jets trade for Devante Adams and go full LA Lakers. This is shameless and sad for a franchise that has been a laughing stock for years. A new low even for them.

Rodgers can barely mask his contempt for his receiving corps.  Don't be surprised to see Mike Williams working as Snoopy in Times Square next week.

[Berg Ryman]

5 minutes ago, bens197 said:

Rodgers can barely mask his contempt for his receiving corps.  Don't be surprised to see Mike Williams working as Snoopy in Times Square next week.

I'm down there this week with the wife on vacation. If I see him, I'll report back.

[GolfSpy_KFT]

18 minutes ago, Berg Ryman said:

Jets trade for Devante Adams and go full LA Lakers. This is shameless and sad for a franchise that has been a laughing stock for years. A new low even for them.

Green Bay East coming to full fruition, just as Aaron envisioned all along I am sure. Don't be surprised if David Bakhtiari signs in the next few weeks. 

It's eye opening viewing Rodgers from the outside and no longer as the QB of my favorite team. I'll take Jordan Love, willing to throw the ball to TEN different receivers a game, over the guy who only wants his guys. .

[Berg Ryman]

55 minutes ago, GolfSpy_KFT said:

Green Bay East coming to full fruition, just as Aaron envisioned all along I am sure. Don't be surprised if David Bakhtiari signs in the next few weeks. 

It's eye opening viewing Rodgers from the outside and no longer as the QB of my favorite team. I'll take Jordan Love, willing to throw the ball to TEN different receivers a game, over the guy who only wants his guys. .

I just don't get it, torpedoing everything for the whims of one guy. It's not like Tampa brought in Edelman and Amendola and others for Brady, or Reggie Wayne materialized in Denver for Peyton. Maybe it's proof Rodgers isn't this great QB, maybe he's a system guy who needs to feel confident in his system and can't play outside it. Also, as someone who watched Nathaniel Hackett at Syracuse and then Buffalo, dude has failed upward spectacularly for someone who I don't think is very good.

[chisag]

1 hour ago, bens197 said:

At least someone enjoyed it!

It was painful.  No tempo, constant penalties.  I found myself in the first half saying "that wasn't even a penalty" for uncatchable passes among other things.  That crew was brutal and shouldn't be calling games after that debacle.  

 

... Either DB coaches are teaching "holding if needed" or DB's are just playing the odds. I think I see more PI's not called than PI's called on uncatchable balls. If they would just stop grabbing, especially beyond 5 yds it would cut down on the calls. But it just seems like this year grabbing an arm and holding it, grabbing a jersey and the old fashioned arm around the hip with a slight pull are off the charts this year and I think it could be called on almost every down. 

... I think the bottom line is the NFL wants more offense and that admittedly puts the defense at a disadvantage, but that is the current state of the game and defensive coaches and players need to adjust to it. That said I know it isn't easy and I don't really have an answer for this conundrum. 

[GolfSpy_KFT]

13 minutes ago, Berg Ryman said:

I just don't get it, torpedoing everything for the whims of one guy. It's not like Tampa brought in Edelman and Amendola and others for Brady, or Reggie Wayne materialized in Denver for Peyton. Maybe it's proof Rodgers isn't this great QB, maybe he's a system guy who needs to feel confident in his system and can't play outside it. Also, as someone who watched Nathaniel Hackett at Syracuse and then Buffalo, dude has failed upward spectacularly for someone who I don't think is very good.

I absolutely do think Aaron Rodgers is one of the most talented QBs to ever play the game and is a first ballot HOF'er, in my opinion. However, I think as his career has gone on, he's seemingly gotten to a "my way or the highway" approach. 

When he was at his peak with GB, he had weapons all over the field and didn't just zero in on one or two guys. At this stage in his career, I don't think he's good enough to elevate a team solely by his presence on the field. The Jets did not get the QB they envisioned they were getting, but got blinded by the name and the past success. The Packers won that trade massively.

There's an arguement to be made that MLF and his playcalling/approach to his relationship with Rodgers elevated him more than people realize. Always was looked at as the other way around, and yet MLF continues to call fantastic games with Love at QB.

[chisag]

1 hour ago, KC Golf said:

i think this year, the protecting the QB rules is getting out of hand. It’s like the QB is off limits like it should be two hand tag. 

 

...  I think most can agree that any position can be replaced, with the exception of the QB. That position is so important in today's NFL and more than a few teams don't have a viable starter and those that do, don't have a back up that can perform anywhere near as well as the starter. I would make the argument any other position can be replaced. Sure losing a Hutchinson can make a defense less dominant, but they won't completely fall apart like Miami when Tua went down or the Jets season last year when they lost Rodgers. I can't think of any other sport where the loss of one player can be so catastrophic for the team, the league and the fans.  

... For those reasons, I am all for protecting the QB and would rather see a marginal call than no call at all. Players in today's NFL are just too big, too strong and way too fast and a QB unlike any other position is a sitting duck in the pocket. That said, when a defensive player does their best to follow the rules, like last nights Buffalo sack when the player tried to strip the ball and braced themselves with their trailing arm, it is very frustrating to see that called especially if you are a Buffalo fan. 

Edited October 15 by chisag

[chisag]

1 minute ago, GolfSpy_KFT said:

I absolutely do think Aaron Rodgers is one of the most talented QBs to ever play the game and is a first ballot HOF'er, in my opinion. However, I think as his career has gone on, he's seemingly gotten to a "my way or the highway" approach. 

 

... I couldn't agree more having had Rodgers just break Bears fans hearts for so many years. His ability to hit a very small window on a deep pass with the game on the line is unmatched imo. But he has always been a prima donna, you just wore blinders. 


 

8 minutes ago, GolfSpy_KFT said:

When he was at his peak with GB, he had weapons all over the field and didn't just zero in on one or two guys. At this stage in his career, I don't think he's good enough to elevate a team solely by his presence on the field. The Jets did not get the QB they envisioned they were getting, but got blinded by the name and the past success.

... And as much as I dislike the guy, I do think he is still good enough to elevate a team solely by his presence on the field and the game last night against the Bills would have been a lopsided, ugly to watch game if Zach Wilson were behind center. He made some OMG throws last night and I don't remember how many drops the Jets had but they were numerous and crucial to getting and maintaining some momentum. That said, at age 40 he certainly isn't who he was in his prime. 

[bens197]

22 minutes ago, Berg Ryman said:

I just don't get it, torpedoing everything for the whims of one guy.

The Cleveland Browns have entered the chat…

[bens197]

20 minutes ago, chisag said:

 

... Either DB coaches are teaching "holding if needed" or DB's are just playing the odds. I think I see more PI's not called than PI's called on uncatchable balls. If they would just stop grabbing, especially beyond 5 yds it would cut down on the calls. But it just seems like this year grabbing an arm and holding it, grabbing a jersey and the old fashioned arm around the hip with a slight pull are off the charts this year and I think it could be called on almost every down. 

... I think the bottom line is the NFL wants more offense and that admittedly puts the defense at a disadvantage, but that is the current state of the game and defensive coaches and players need to adjust to it. That said I know it isn't easy and I don't really have an answer for this conundrum. 

Quarterbacks have the advantage of heaving bombs with the likelihood that a missed catch will become DPI. 
 

Id love to know the official stat. How many passes over 30 yards (arbitrary) end up being DPI or Defensive Hold calls. Play the averages. 

[GolfSpy_KFT]

2 minutes ago, chisag said:

 

... I couldn't agree more having had Rodgers just break Bears fans hearts for so many years. His ability to hit a very small window on a deep pass with the game on the line is unmatched imo. But he has always been a prima donna, you just wore blinders. 


 

... And as much as I dislike the guy, I do think he is still good enough to elevate a team solely by his presence on the field and the game last night against the Bills would have been a lopsided, ugly to watch game if Zach Wilson were behind center. He made some OMG throws last night and I don't remember how many drops the Jets had but they were numerous and crucial to getting and maintaining some momentum. That said, at age 40 he certainly isn't who he was in his prime. 

He certainly still has those throws in his arsenal, I shouldn't completely discredit that. I'll own the blinders statement, as I think most anyone who has a franchise QB on their team is willing to overlook some of the dramatics if they are seeing the results we were spoiled with in Green Bay for all those years. 

But it certainly is true that you see just how much more attention one player can bring to an entire organization when it is from the outside looking in!

[chisag]

2 minutes ago, bens197 said:

Quarterbacks have the advantage of heaving bombs with the likelihood that a missed catch will become DPI. 
 

Id love to know the official stat. How many passes over 30 yards (arbitrary) end up being DPI or Defensive Hold calls. Play the averages. 

 

... I don't see more deep throws than the past and if pressed would say I see even more shorter passes today compared to 10 years ago. Defenses are playing deeper and we al hear "just taking what the defenses give me" throwing passes under 10 yds. But just like my argument that defensive players are too big, too strong and too fast when it comes to rushing the pocket, WR's are the same and covering them even with the insane athletic ability of today's DB's can be almost impossible every down.

... I just see much more calculated PI going on because even though a lot of flags are being thrown, there is still a massive amount going on that isn't called. My biggest complaint is the DB grabbing an arm, or "arm barring" a WR so they can't use both or either hand to make a catch. I know I am probably in the minority, but I think NFL athletes have out paced the game itself and I just don't have an answer on how to fix it. 

[chisag]

9 minutes ago, GolfSpy_KFT said:

But it certainly is true that you see just how much more attention one player can bring to an entire organization when it is from the outside looking in!

 

... Roquon Smith was one of my favorite college players when he dominated games at Georgia and I was thrilled when the Bears drafted him. He played right up to the edge with an inner fire and a few times crossed that line of aggression to uncalled for. But watching him with the Ravens, now I just see a dirty player that crosses the line much too often and is completely unrepentant about it. As you said, outside looking in. 

[bens197]

2 minutes ago, chisag said:

 

... I don't see more deep throws than the past and if pressed would say I see even more shorter passes today compared to 10 years ago. Defenses are playing deeper and we al hear "just taking what the defenses give me" throwing passes under 10 yds. But just like my argument that defensive players are too big, too strong and too fast when it comes to rushing the pocket, WR's are the same and covering them even with the insane athletic ability of today's DB's can be almost impossible every down.

... I just see much more calculated PI going on because even though a lot of flags are being thrown, there is still a massive amount going on that isn't called. My biggest complaint is the DB grabbing an arm, or "arm barring" a WR so they can't use both or either hand to make a catch. I know I am probably in the minority, but I think NFL athletes have out paced the game itself and I just don't have an answer on how to fix it. 

Definitely agree with the underneath statement.  What used to be a weak QB's forte, the check down is now a regiment for many of these high powered offenses.  Up until last year, Josh was notorious for 3rd down "punts" where he'd heave one to Gabriel Davis for an INT because of course.

I used to suffer through JP Losman and Trent Edwards making their fullback as their first look check down because Eric Moulds, Lee Evans and TO were just not cutting it

Ok that was a joke and more of a product of a terrible O-Line.  But you get the point.

[GolfSpy_KFT]

5 minutes ago, chisag said:

... I just see much more calculated PI going on because even though a lot of flags are being thrown, there is still a massive amount going on that isn't called. My biggest complaint is the DB grabbing an arm, or "arm barring" a WR so they can't use both or either hand to make a catch. I know I am probably in the minority, but I think NFL athletes have out paced the game itself and I just don't have an answer on how to fix it. 

I was going to mention this too, Sam. Some of the best DBs in the league are the ones who can consistently "mask" DPI. They will time the arrival of a ball juuuuuust before it gets there and create just enough contact that displaces the receiver which impacts the ability to catch the ball. Jaire Alexander is good at this and who comes to mind as I watch him week in and week out. He's also what I consider an elite DB. Others who get flagged more often just aren't good enough at timing the contact, or not good enough to not get beat by the WR and are forced to grab/hold to prevent a  TD. I definitely think it is coached. Do I think it is fair or right? Not necessarily, but the case that DPI or even OPI could be called on nearly every ball thrown down the field is valid unless it is a blown coverage or the WR is just clearly open. 

[Berg Ryman]

I feel as if I was a little to 'hot take' in my Rodgers assessment, and I think @GolfSpy_KFT put it better. He undoubtedly has arm talent in a way that few ever had, but he's so specifically a 'his way' guy that I can't get on board with him the same way other great QB's who made late career switches and succeeded like Tom and Peyton, or even someone like a Kurt Warner who was super solid with Arizona. This feels like Kansas City Montana to me, with more drama, less success, and an overwhelming  attempt to satiate the league's largest ego.

All time it isn't going to be a knock against him to most, but it's baffling to watch and will be written about for years once the Jets go back to trash again, if they aren't already there.

[funkyjudge]

7 hours ago, bens197 said:

It was painful.  No tempo, constant penalties.  I found myself in the first half saying "that wasn't even a penalty" for uncatchable passes among other things.  That crew was brutal and shouldn't be calling games after that debacle.  

Rodgers can barely mask his contempt for his receiving corps.  Don't be surprised to see Mike Williams working as Snoopy in Times Square next week.

My thoughts almost exactly as I watched that nearly-unwatchable game last night!

[funkyjudge]

5 hours ago, chisag said:

... I just see much more calculated PI going on because even though a lot of flags are being thrown, there is still a massive amount going on that isn't called. My biggest complaint is the DB grabbing an arm, or "arm barring" a WR so they can't use both or either hand to make a catch. I know I am probably in the minority, but I think NFL athletes have out paced the game itself and I just don't have an answer on how to fix it. 

I pretty much agree with everything you said in this paragraph, Sam!

[silver & black]

On 10/15/2024 at 10:28 AM, Berg Ryman said:

Jets trade for Devante Adams and go full LA Lakers. This is shameless and sad for a franchise that has been a laughing stock for years. A new low even for them.

Adams is the Jets' problem now. I'm happy he's gone. Never should have traded for him in the first place. The Raiders can suck just fine without him.