LOST BALL AND LOST PROVISIONAL BALL

[Brian Oats]

Player's tee shot heading towards thick bushes

Player announces playing Provisional Ball it also goes straight towards same thick bushes.

Player unable to find either ball and decides to take 2 shot penalty drop on fairway at or near agreed area where 1st ball deemed lost - therefore playing 4th shot.

Question is - should player take 2 shot penalty by drop on fairway at or near agreed area where Provisional ball deemed lost (assume same large bush) - therefore playing 6th shot.

Club has adopted drop on fairway rule for lost ball.

Cannot find definitive rule  to cover this.

Can anyone help? Thanks Brian.

[Dutch Boy]

Rule 18.2b tells us what to do when a ball is lost or out of bounds. Player can always decided to take stroke and distance penalty for one penalty. In this case hitting 5 off the tee. Or player can choice to invoke MLRE-5 (rule book / app has lots of examples of where to drop) and would be playing 6

[cnosil]

7 hours ago, Brian Oats said:

Player's tee shot heading towards thick bushes

Player announces playing Provisional Ball it also goes straight towards same thick bushes.

Player unable to find either ball and decides to take 2 shot penalty drop on fairway at or near agreed area where 1st ball deemed lost - therefore playing 4th shot.

Question is - should player take 2 shot penalty by drop on fairway at or near agreed area where Provisional ball deemed lost (assume same large bush) - therefore playing 6th shot.

Club has adopted drop on fairway rule for lost ball.

Cannot find definitive rule  to cover this.

Can anyone help? Thanks Brian.

The rules would progress like this; applicable rules would be 18.2 and 18.3

when the player reaches the point where the first ball would be and it cannot be found, the provisional ball becomes the ball in play.   Since the provisional ball cannot be found, you can then proceed under the lost ball rule; for the provisional which is now the ball in play, which is stroke and distance and since the club has adopted the local rule you can follow that rule.  Player is hitting 6th shot.  
 

 

[funkyjudge]

14 hours ago, cnosil said:

The rules would progress like this; applicable rules would be 18.2 and 18.3

when the player reaches the point where the first ball would be and it cannot be found, the provisional ball becomes the ball in play.   Since the provisional ball cannot be found, you can then proceed under the lost ball rule; for the provisional which is now the ball in play, which is stroke and distance and since the club has adopted the local rule you can follow that rule.  Player is hitting 6th shot.  
 

 

Correct — I had this exact situation happen to me a few weeks ago, and I got DQ’d because I didn’t count my strokes correctly (I thought that I was hitting 5 when I should have known that I was hitting my 6th shot). I marked my score card with an 8, but changed it to an X, which is an automatic DQ, of course.  This was on a winter golf tour that I play on.

[Golfmajor]

The provisional ball is not in play unless it passed the point where the first ball is deemed to have been lost. USGA rules consider the first ball to still be the ball in-play, unless the provisional ball is nearer the hole than the first ball. In the first instance, if the ball went out of bounds , and the provisional ball went out of bounds shorter than the first lost ball, if the player decides to take a two stroke penalty from the point of the first lost ball, it would in deed be his 4th shot, not the 6th, because the provisional ball is still not the ball in play.

On 1/26/2022 at 7:23 AM, cnosil said:

The rules would progress like this; applicable rules would be 18.2 and 18.3

when the player reaches the point where the first ball would be and it cannot be found, the provisional ball becomes the ball in play.   Since the provisional ball cannot be found, you can then proceed under the lost ball rule; for the provisional which is now the ball in play, which is stroke and distance and since the club has adopted the local rule you can follow that rule.  Player is hitting 6th shot.  
 

 

[DaveP043]

11 hours ago, Golfmajor said:

The provisional ball is not in play unless it passed the point where the first ball is deemed to have been lost. USGA rules consider the first ball to still be the ball in-play, unless the provisional ball is nearer the hole than the first ball. In the first instance, if the ball went out of bounds , and the provisional ball went out of bounds shorter than the first lost ball, if the player decides to take a two stroke penalty from the point of the first lost ball, it would in deed be his 4th shot, not the 6th, because the provisional ball is still not the ball in play.

No, you may not use Model Local Rule E-5 for the original ball after you have played a provisional.  This restriction is near the end of the Local Rule, Section 8E in Committee Procedures.  Therefore, the ONLY ball for which you can take E-5 Relief is for the Provisional Ball, which means laying 5 after dropping in the large Relief Area available.  Model Local Rule E-5 is the "drop on fairway rule" mentioned in the Original Post.

On 1/26/2022 at 12:39 AM, Brian Oats said:

Club has adopted drop on fairway rule for lost ball.