Pandaman Posted October 15, 2022 Share Posted October 15, 2022 I had a discussion with my club pro recently regarding whether you need to actually find your ball to declare it unplayable and take stroke and distance. Obviously, to take back on the line or 2 club lengths you need to find it to get the reference point. But for S&D that is irrelevant. In the scenario where you hit it off the tee into deep bushes and expect that even if you do find it it won't be very pleasant. To not waste time searching you declare it unplayable and just take S&D. rather than look. His take on it was that you need to actually find it to be able to decide if it is unplayable or not (not illogical). My thought was that if I can declare it unplayable at any time in any place, and its exact location has no bearing on where I hit from, and I cannot declare it 'lost', I can take S&D for unplayable, rather than hit provisional and not bother looking. And avoid the potential risk one of my group finding it to give me a pig of a second shot. I couldn't find a clear answer in the rules app. though I would interpret what I found as it being my thoughts that are correct. Can any of you point me to a clarification. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dutch Boy Posted October 15, 2022 Share Posted October 15, 2022 Rule 19 covers the relief options for an unplayable ball. R19.2a states that Stroke and Distance is a relief option Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DaveP043 Posted October 15, 2022 Share Posted October 15, 2022 Rule 18.1 says you may take Stroke and Distance relief at any time, no matter where your ball is. You're not taking Unplayable Ball relief under Rule 19, you're working g under 18.1. Rule 19.2 says you can take Stroke and Distance relief even if you don't know where your original ball is. Your club pro is wrong, on this one. cnosil, Blueberry_Squishie and TR1PTIK 3 Quote Irons Titleist T200, AMT Red stiff Rogue SubZero, GD YS-Six X T22 54 and 58 wedges 7-wood 5-wood B60 G5i putter Right handed Reston, Virginia Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
benb1989 Posted October 17, 2022 Share Posted October 17, 2022 Do you have to be able to retrieve the ball? You can clearly identify its your ball but because its in a thorn bush you cant reach in and get it and its proving near impossible to hook it out with a club. Can you still declare the ball unplayable? Had a quick look at Rule 19 but it didn't touch on this Quote , Driver, Mavrik Max 10.5*, Aldila rouge white 60, XS flex , 3 Wood, MX-700, S flex , 4 Hybrid, Mavrik Max, S flex , 5-PW 699 Pro, KBS Tour S flex , Wedges, Vokey, 52*, 56*, 60* , Putter, Stroke Lab Black #7 , Pro V1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LICC Posted October 17, 2022 Share Posted October 17, 2022 1 hour ago, benb1989 said: Do you have to be able to retrieve the ball? You can clearly identify its your ball but because its in a thorn bush you cant reach in and get it and its proving near impossible to hook it out with a club. Can you still declare the ball unplayable? Had a quick look at Rule 19 but it didn't touch on this The unplayable ball rule is one of the worst in the rules as far as it’s application. According to most, you can deem a ball unplayable even if it is entirely playable. The ball can be sitting perfectly with nothing hindering it being struck and you can still call it unplayable and take back of line relief. (I contend this is unethical and violates Rule 1 which requires honest play, but most don’t apply that to the unplayable situation.) Then, after declaring an unplayable, the rule allows you to change your ball even if you can retrieve it. Makes no sense. The unplayable ball rule is not the USGA or R&A rule makers at their best. benb1989 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cnosil Posted October 17, 2022 Share Posted October 17, 2022 2 hours ago, benb1989 said: Do you have to be able to retrieve the ball? You can clearly identify its your ball but because its in a thorn bush you cant reach in and get it and its proving near impossible to hook it out with a club. Can you still declare the ball unplayable? Had a quick look at Rule 19 but it didn't touch on this No, you don’t have to be able to retrieve the ball; this has been demonstrated several times on the various tours with ball in trees and the use of cameras to see the identifying marks on the ball. I see you are in England so he is the R&A discussion on identifying a ball. https://www.randa.org/en/rog/the-rules-of-golf/rule-7 DaveP043 and benb1989 2 Quote Driver: G400 Max 9* w/ KBS Tour Driven Fairway: Paradym AI Smoke Max HL 16.5* w/MCA TENSEI AV Series Blue Hybrids: 915H 21* w/KBS Tour Graphite Hybrid Prototype 915H 24* w/KBS Tour Graphite Hybrid Prototype Irons: TR20V 6-11 w/Vizard TR20-85 Graphite Wedge: 54/12D, 60/8M w/Accra iWedge 90 Graphite Putter: Render w/VA Composites Baddazz Backup Putters: Sacks Parente MC 3 Stripe, Milled Collection RSX 2 Member: MGS Hitsquad since 2017 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DaveP043 Posted October 17, 2022 Share Posted October 17, 2022 2 hours ago, benb1989 said: Do you have to be able to retrieve the ball? You can clearly identify its your ball but because its in a thorn bush you cant reach in and get it and its proving near impossible to hook it out with a club. Can you still declare the ball unplayable? Had a quick look at Rule 19 but it didn't touch on this The second Bullet Point under 19.2 says: "But to take back-on-the-line relief under Rule 19.2b or lateral relief under Rule 19.2c, the player must know the spot of the original ball." To "know the spot of the original" means you must see the ball and identify it as yours. You don't have to be able to retrieve it. Each of the Relief options says you may use the original or another ball, another indication that you don't have to retrieve the original ball. You should also review Interpretation 19.2/5, which talks about this issue. cnosil, benb1989 and TR1PTIK 3 Quote Irons Titleist T200, AMT Red stiff Rogue SubZero, GD YS-Six X T22 54 and 58 wedges 7-wood 5-wood B60 G5i putter Right handed Reston, Virginia Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pandaman Posted October 17, 2022 Author Share Posted October 17, 2022 On 10/15/2022 at 10:15 PM, DaveP043 said: Rule 18.1 says you may take Stroke and Distance relief at any time, no matter where your ball is. You're not taking Unplayable Ball relief under Rule 19, you're working g under 18.1. Rule 19.2 says you can take Stroke and Distance relief even if you don't know where your original ball is. Your club pro is wrong, on this one. Thank you . Very much appreciated. DaveP043 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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