Putting matters (just not as much as we thought)

[DaveP043]

 

In fact its more important for better players because it's a higher percentage of their total strokes. 

Two comments.  First, its important to understand that putts from inside about 3 feet almost don't count as a stroke, when you're analyzing importance.  If you make 100%, you simply can't improve any more.  So the number of putts that matter, for a good player, may be only 15 to 20 in a round.  Further, as long as you avoid 3-putts (like most good players do), you're really not going to make enough putts from 20 feet or more that it will make a big difference in your score.  So the putting range that can really make a difference is 5 to 15 feet, where you CAN make a difference by making more, and over 25 or 30 feet, where you can decrease 3-putts.

 

There is also a book Lowest Score Wins and that is a particularly good book in playing to percentages which would be great for all handicaps.

I'm another one who has read Lowest Score Wins, and I also think it presents a whole lot of valuable statistics-based advice.

[Rusty1885]

Putting isn't the be all end all that some make it out to be, but it's still very important.

 

In fact its more important for better players because it's a higher percentage of their total strokes. For higher handicappers like me, shots from 200 and in are probably the most important, if you can hit more greens you can quickly save a ton of strokes.

Absolutely true.

 

Even pros can't hit their targets in 200 range consistently and some do it with 7i. If I have to put a ratio estimate I'd say 1:5:10. 1 block of time to improve on putting one level vs 5 blocks of time to improve short game within 100 yard of the green vs 10 blocks of time for longer range ball striking skills.

 

Driver is the most important club in the bag because it consumes half or over half the distance of most holes. It's important to hit it well. It's also the longest and have the least amount of loft which makes it the hardest club to hit straight(or consistently with natural shape shot) in the bag.

 

The problem is improving driver striking or a long irons ball striking full swing does not transfer to short game or partial swing skills, it's the other way around. Most fascinating is short putts confidence. If you can hole most 6 footers and in, it takes pressure off every part of your game.

[TheWahoo]

I tend to agree with those that suggest that the most significant portion of the game depends on the individual and their collective skills.   Personally, for me, all I know is that a putt of less than a foot as a result of a missed putt counts the same as a 300 yard drive.   And unless I am hitting off of the side of a mountain, I will never have a 300 yard drive.  

Again, personally, if I could learn to play out of a green side sand bunker, I immediately could lower my index by 3 strokes. 

[cnosil]

@TheWahoo. Probably easier to just not hit in those greenside bunkers

[TheWahoo]

cnosil:

 

Yes, I do have a shot that I call the "BAS"  (bunker avoidance shot) which at times (too many times) I fail to execute.   But when I do, personally brings me back to the current topic, putting.   

[drandrus]

We just talked about this last night while out golfing and someone brought up a good point. As long as you're putting is on point, all you gotta do is get it on the green. Which do you feel you struggle more with, putting or tee shots? As long as you can get GIR or even close and you're putting is a strong point, you'll definitely shave strokes.

Lately I have been struggling with a hook off the tee which has gotten me in trouble with penalty strokes. I have been working on fixing that but have noticed a decline in my putting with less time being put towards that area. Penalty strokes are a killer to a good round so I have trying to fix that area. I am also waiting for the new Odyssey o works black 3t to come. I want to go back to a mallet putter rather than blade.

 

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[Rusty1885]

cnosil:

 

Yes, I do have a shot that I call the "BAS" (bunker avoidance shot) which at times (too many times) I fail to execute. But when I do, personally brings me back to the current topic, putting.

I played with a guy once he gets into 4 or 5 bunkers, each time he putt out side way or backward because of lower lips then chipped up. After the second bunker I asked him why. He said he usually spent 3-4 shots in the bunker this way it just adds one. I thought it was an awesome way to minimize damage and pretty rare solutions for a high handicapper.

 

 

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[ddryan]

Totally agree... HELP!!!

[Kenny B]

Absolutely true.

 

Even pros can't hit their targets in 200 range consistently and some do it with 7i. If I have to put a ratio estimate I'd say 1:5:10. 1 block of time to improve on putting one level vs 5 blocks of time to improve short game within 100 yard of the green vs 10 blocks of time for longer range ball striking skills.

 

Driver is the most important club in the bag because it consumes half or over half of most holes. It's important to hit it well. It's also the longest and have the least amount of loft which makes it the hardest club to hit straight(or consistently with natural shape shot) in the bag.

 

The problem is improving driver striking or a long irons ball striking full swing does not transfer to short game or partial swing skills, it's the other way around. Most fascinating is short putts confidence. If you can hole most 6 footers and in, it takes pressure off every part of your game.

"No, no no, you're doing it all wrong!"  

 

As TheWahoo says, it depends on the individual and their collective skills.  Yes, the driver and long clubs are important; you have to get it in play.  But so are all the other shots.  I'm not sure what you mean by "Driver is the most important club in the bag because it consumes half or over half of most holes."  Maybe it's half the distance from tee to green, but for me that's not true on many holes at my course.  It's certainly not half of the clubs I use to get on the green, and with each club I use I run the risk of a bad shot. 

 

If I were the young flat belly with the swing speed I had when I took up this game, I might spend more time working on the long game, but I'm not... and I don't.  I can't hit the long ball, but it will be in play nearly all of the time, and usually in the fairway.  Practicing my driver is a waste of time.  For me to score well, I have to hit approach shots, chip and putt.  Even long approach shots are not in my wheelhouse.  I could probably spend more time on them, but I seriously doubt that from outside 150 yards I would hit many more greens with more practice.  For me, that leaves chipping and putting.  I have to get up and down.  So... for me, I have to spend as much time as I can on the game from 50 yards and in.  If I don't continually practice my short game, my scores will be 5-10 shots per round higher.

 

Therefore, each person has to analyze their game and practice what's important to help them score.  For me that means a practice ratio of about 5:10:1 -  putting, chipping/pitching, long game.  And the long game practice is mostly irons/hybrids with only a few drivers.

[Rusty1885]

"No, no no, you're doing it all wrong!"

 

As TheWahoo says, it depends on the individual and their collective skills. Yes, the driver and long clubs are important; you have to get it in play. But so are all the other shots. I'm not sure what you mean by "Driver is the most important club in the bag because it consumes half or over half of most holes." Maybe it's half the distance from tee to green, but for me that's not true on many holes at my course. It's certainly not half of the clubs I use to get on the green, and with each club I use I run the risk of a bad shot.

 

If I were the young flat belly with the swing speed I had when I took up this game, I might spend more time working on the long game, but I'm not... and I don't. I can't hit the long ball, but it will be in play nearly all of the time, and usually in the fairway. Practicing my driver is a waste of time. For me to score well, I have to hit approach shots, chip and putt. Even long approach shots are not in my wheelhouse. I could probably spend more time on them, but I seriously doubt that from outside 150 yards I would hit many more greens with more practice. For me, that leaves chipping and putting. I have to get up and down. So... for me, I have to spend as much time as I can on the game from 50 yards and in. If I don't continually practice my short game, my scores will be 5-10 shots per round higher.

 

Therefore, each person has to analyze their game and practice what's important to help them score. For me that means a practice ratio of about 5:10:1 - putting, chipping/pitching, long game. And the long game practice is mostly irons/hybrids with only a few drivers.

Kenny we see things the same way. I think I might have worded wrong. What I meant was if it takes one block of time to improve putting to the next level it'd take 5 blocks of time to improve short game and 10 block of time to improve long game. Not the the amount of time to put in for practice.

 

That's why most experts agree that the fastest way to improve your score is through short game and putting, but to be good you have to have better long game. As they say "If you can't putt you can't score, if you can't drive you can't play".

 

There's not much you can do with full swing once you achieve certain level as an amateur except for maintenance and if your confidence level is high a little practice here and there is enough for me. Last year I hit about 100 drives on the range, and I practice 3-4 times a week. I hit more wedges in one session than I hit drives the whole year.

 

The reason why I don't think you should not practice too much of putting is more practice leads to more misses and more expectations. That puts a lot of pressure on a putt than it needs to be. 10-15 mins practice on short putts is more than enough on the green and a few mins on lag putts from a point on the green to the fringe not the hole is a good practice. The goal is to reduce the amount of miss putt you see.

 

When I work on my putting stroke I don't do it with the ball it may leads to "hit impulse", as you may have heard before the ball is in the way of your swing or stroke. Too much putting practice may leads to the yips as you miss too many putts and start to steer.

 

I agree with you nothing is more important to a golfer's success than his ability with the scoring clubs, the short irons, the wedges, and the putter and that you won't fulfill your potential as a golfer unless you embrace your short game. I believe players with good short game should be the cockiest golfers on the planet.

[cnosil]

Rusty, sounds like you determine practice areas based on confidence and that if you get into a bad spell during practice it will lead to poorer play. You mention that with the long game you reach a point that practice doesn't help; you state that missing putts during practice is bad so you practice mechanics. Am I misinterpreting?

 

I would thing you need the practice reps even if things aren't working 100% to help when things aren't perfect on the course. In my mind tuning requires repetition and actually performing the task.

[Kenny B]

A very interesting discussion!  I practice putting and chipping/pitching on certain days.  On those days I do my drills and hit specific shots.  I don't play golf on those days.  On those days when I play, I will spend about 20 minutes putting as Rusty states.  I first practice 3-4 footers with my right (trail) hand.  I have found that doing this before I do any other putting promotes a more down-the-line stroke.  It seems when I first start, my stroke is tentative, but it only takes a few strokes before it feels natural.  Then I putt to varying distances to feel the speed of the green that day.  If I don't putt before a round, my putting performance is not "up to par".

 

From Rusty's post above:  "When I work on my putting stroke I don't do it with the ball it may leads to "hit impulse", as you may have heard before the ball is in the way of your swing or stroke. Too much putting practice may leads to the yips as you miss too many putts and start to steer."    In my case the ball IS in the way of my stroke...  remember, I am NOT looking at the ball when I make a stroke, so I don't have a "hit impulse".

[Rusty1885]

Rusty, sounds like you determine practice areas based on confidence and that if you get into a bad spell during practice it will lead to poorer play. You mention that with the long game you reach a point that practice doesn't help; you state that missing putts during practice is bad so you practice mechanics. Am I misinterpreting?

I would thing you need the practice reps even if things aren't working 100% to help when things aren't perfect on the course. In my mind tuning requires repetition and actually performing the task.

I do believe that the game of golf requires you to pay a lot of dues but it pays off in the end I got serious after the first year. My pro put me on a "Hitting the fairways off the tee" program where I have to hit the minimum 10 fairways, 10 consecutive rounds with 5 wood before I can move up to 4 wood, then 3, 2, and finally 11* driver. It took me 18 months to get to hit a driver on the course. By that time and since that's been my strength it's muscle memory and what the eyes see. I left the game for 11 years pretty much, the first round I play after I came back to the game I hit all 14 fairways off the tee with my driver, but had no touch around the green.

 

Based on my experience, full swing needs less tune up and practice than partial swings. I'm not a long hitter but I hit my drives well and I don't miss hit my fairway woods and hybrid. Some shots may not go exactly as play but I'm always make crisp contact. I used to hit lots of woods and driver at the range but I found that too much practicing leads to more miss when I started tinkering with it. If it ain't broke, leave it alone.

 

My idea of long shots is to advance the ball toward the hole as far and as straight as possible once I can nail it straight at a consistent distance each long club I stop messing with it. No matter how much I practice I won't be able to increase the distance of each long club by even 10%, when I'm in the zone I can carry 10-15 yards longer not 30. I draw it sometimes but never fade and I have no need to work the ball, while I like to practice the 9-shots on the range, in general I only play/see one side of the course.

 

I do practice partial shots with my 5 or 6 hybrid depending on what's get to go into the bag, because I need it to cover the 5i distance I carry 6,8 9i. No need for long irons. I use range time to retain power and flexibility and a few times a month I'd geeked out with the ES14 and swingbyte and camera(s).

 

Once I'm on the course I just play golf no thinking about swings mechanic. I play great golf that way, though sometimes I couldn't block out swing thoughts and it backfired but I take that as part of learning experience.

[revkev]

This has turned into a great discussion. A couple of questions, observations.

 

1. Is practicing short game when you are made song really beneficial? I'm with Rusty on this. I don't want to be grooving misses. I will make 10 in a row from 2 feet, hop in the car and head home or back to work on a day like that.

 

2. While it wasn't his intent I had never considered that driver was more important because it covers more yardage before. I think there's some merit to that argument. I had always argued drivers importance from penalty avoidance.

 

3. As a player ages it's very hard to work on the long game. It's just a fact that many here must deal with. I only have so many full shots with a fairway wood in my back on a given day. When I was 25 I could hit a large bucket of them.

 

4. While there are nuances to each of our games they don't change the metrics as much as we'd like to think. Putting has importance but the other stuff may negate it. If I'm always putting for double it really doesn't matter if I'm Ben Crenshaw now does it.

 

 

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[fozcycle]

For the record, the Evnroll is back in the bag for my Hilton Head Trip.

 

 

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[cnosil]

In the end it I think it comes down to the skill level of the golfer.

 

If you struggle off the tee work on that area, if you are missing greens work on iron play. If you can't get up and down work on short game. If you can't make anything outside of 3 feet work on putting.

 

The other thing about putting is that there are more skills than just rolling the ball straight. From a simple stroke perspective putting is easy. But you also have to be able to read greens and control speed. Throughout the set the shorter the distance the more precise we need to become because the target gets smaller.

 

From a strokes gained perspective the longer clubs are probably more important to overall score because they typically are more peninsula to overall score. But if you are trying to score and can't make a 3 foot put you are going to struggle just as much

[Kenny B]

This has turned into a great discussion. A couple of questions, observations.

 

1. Is practicing short game when you are made song really beneficial? I'm with Rusty on this. I don't want to be grooving misses. I will make 10 in a row from 2 feet, hop in the car and head home or back to work on a day like that.

 

2. While it wasn't his intent I had never considered that driver was more important because it covers more yardage before. I think there's some merit to that argument. I had always argued drivers importance from penalty avoidance.

 

3. As a player ages it's very hard to work on the long game. It's just a fact that many here must deal with. I only have so many full shots with a fairway wood in my back on a given day. When I was 25 I could hit a large bucket of them.

 

4. While there are nuances to each of our games they don't change the metrics as much as we'd like to think. Putting has importance but the other stuff may negate it. If I'm always putting for double it really doesn't matter if I'm Ben Crenshaw now does it.

 

 

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Based on what I have read here on the forum, I probably practice putting more than most.  I feel it's beneficial to my game.  I don't necessarily work on alignment because the practice green is so different than the greens on the course.  If I stroke the ball on my intended line, I'm fine with it even if it doesn't go in.  I mostly work on speed control rotating from from short, middle and long distances.  Since I have done that, I have made more putts, even longer putts, than I used to.  If my putting is off, I score badly.  Yesterday was a good example; we arrived at the course late and I did not hit any practice putts.  It cost me 3 shots in the first 5 holes.  I'm not saying that I would have saved those 3 shots with the warmup, but I normally would have made those putts.

 

I agree with Rusty.  Working on the long game is a waste of time and energy; I will not gain anything from spending time on the range other than maybe seeing a couple of bad shots that have the potential to ruin my round.

 

As for the importance of putting... I don't care how good of a ball striker you are, if you can't take advantage of hitting the the ball closer to the hole, it won't do you much good.  If Rory McIlroy could putt like Ben Crenshaw on those birdie and par putts, he wouldn't have missed the Tour Championship.

[Rusty1885]

Based on what I have read here on the forum, I probably practice putting more than most.  I feel it's beneficial to my game.  I don't necessarily work on alignment because the practice green is so different than the greens on the course.  If I stroke the ball on my intended line, I'm fine with it even if it doesn't go in.

 

I agree with Rusty.  Working on the long game is a waste of time and energy; I will not gain anything from spending time on the range other than maybe seeing a couple of bad shots that have the potential to ruin my round.

 

 

This is so true about practice green and on the course green. On the course, about 12-18 inches produce a lot of break one way or another because it's the area where golfers put most there weight on one foot while bending down and retrieve their ball. I've witnessed as much as 2 inches of break from 4 feet. It went from 5 or 6 o'clock aim to may be 4 o'clock aim.

 

Whereas the practice golfer stand much further away with both feet on the green pulling up the mini flag stick plunger to pick up their balls.

 

As fo the long game, nowadays I focus on distance range rather than clubs. We are all wish to rip a 2i high and long or even 6i like we used to but it's not as easy to do. In addition the hybrid are now so easy to hit and produce more consistent shots why bother.

 

We've seen or feel that look on the tee when I pull out some type of hybrid or fat looking club on a par 3 when my younger partner is hitting a skinny little iron. Fortunately, mine ends up on the greens more time than my young partners and usually straighter as well. Until style points get to the scorecard, I'll stick with easier clubs to hit approach to the greens.

[TheWahoo]

.

 

I agree with Rusty.  Working on the long game is a waste of time and energy; I will not gain anything from spending time on the range other than maybe seeing a couple of bad shots that have the potential to ruin my round.

 

As for the importance of putting... I don't care how good of a ball striker you are, if you can't take advantage of hitting the the ball closer to the hole, it won't do you much good.  If Rory McIlroy could putt like Ben Crenshaw on those birdie and par putts, he wouldn't have missed the Tour Championship.

You and I are on the same page.   Like Eastwood says-a man has got to know his limitations-and my limitation is definitely the lack of distance and increasingly as I grow older.   Accordingly, I good short game can be a compensating factor, so that's where I concentrate most of my practice.  That surely includes putting.  But that does not mean that I do not practice my long game.  I do so to at least maintain what I got.  

 

I guess its different strokes for different folks.   One should pay more attention to whatever part of the game best helps them get the ball in the hole, but that does not imply no attention to the other parts.  For me, its a question of the best use of time.

[Big money]

I've always been big on short game practice.But at the same time I've also come to some conclusions.I for enjoy visiting new courses which add to the challenge.If I always practice my short game at one club on sams green speeds-rough length and slopes etc.Than wouldn't this not travel well since I'm ingraining the same speed and feel for that course?.Why working on short game might be for only improving technique and consistency.Than some courses may have a different practice green speed and slopes than what is actually on their real course.This is why it always takes me a few holes to feel a new course.Or , on some days I never seem to become accustomed and struggle.

Short game is huge, but positioning one self safely for the next stroke is key

[Kenny B]

You and I are on the same page.   Like Eastwood says-a man has got to know his limitations-and my limitation is definitely the lack of distance and increasingly as I grow older.   Accordingly, I good short game can be a compensating factor, so that's where I concentrate most of my practice.  That surely includes putting.  But that does not mean that I do not practice my long game.  I do so to at least maintain what I got.  

 

I guess its different strokes for different folks.   One should pay more attention to whatever part of the game best helps them get the ball in the hole, but that does not imply no attention to the other parts.  For me, its a question of the best use of time.

I agree that we are probably working to the same conclusion on our games.  I did not mean to imply that I don't spend any time on my long game, although I can see that it could have come across that way.  As long as I am hitting my long clubs pretty well, I don't mess with them on the range.  If something gets out of whack, I will go back to my basic setup and work on hitting positions to get it back on track.  But I don't go to the range and work through my bag every day that I play.  In fact, I don't go to range on any day that I play!!  My warmup consists of pitches, chips, and putts.  If I don't have a lot of time, I will only focus on putts... getting the speed correct.  I will always stretch before the round because if I don't, I will have very poor play on the first 2-3 holes.  On my course I can't afford that because holes 1 and 2 are two of the easiest holes.

[Kenny B]

I've always been big on short game practice.But at the same time I've also come to some conclusions.I for enjoy visiting new courses which add to the challenge.If I always practice my short game at one club on sams green speeds-rough length and slopes etc.Than wouldn't this not travel well since I'm ingraining the same speed and feel for that course?.Why working on short game might be for only improving technique and consistency.Than some courses may have a different practice green speed and slopes than what is actually on their real course.This is why it always takes me a few holes to feel a new course.Or , on some days I never seem to become accustomed and struggle.

Short game is huge, but positioning one self safely for the next stroke is key

I agree somewhat.  My wife and I travel a lot to play golf, and I have seen many different green and rough conditions.   I do spend a lot more time on unfamiliar greens before I play.  I always have trouble for a few days when I travel somewhere that has Bermuda greens.  About the time I figure them out, we have to leave.  I have figured out that if I have a short distance uphill to the green and the pin is close to the edge, the shot I would play here at home doesn't work in Bermuda.  Normally, I would play a little chip into the grass just short of the green; the ball will pop up and forward and roll onto the green.  I tried this shot on Bermuda twice.  First time, the ball landed on the grass and hopped up and back.  Huh?  The next opportunity I had for that shot, I tried it again; same result.  Not doing that again; now I just hit a risky flop shot.

 

However, the more you practice technique and become a more proficient short game player, I firmly believe that it improves your ability to more quickly adapt to different course conditions.  For example... chipping.  If you can consistently hit chips to your targets on the practice green, then your technique will allow you to do that most anywhere albeit the club may be different if greens are faster or slower.  If chips are fat, thin, flippy, then that game is not going to travel well to any course.

[TheWahoo]

I agree somewhat.  My wife and I travel a lot to play golf, and I have seen many different green and rough conditions.   I do spend a lot more time on unfamiliar greens before I play.  I always have trouble for a few days when I travel somewhere that has Bermuda greens.  About the time I figure them out, we have to leave.  I have figured out that if I have a short distance uphill to the green and the pin is close to the edge, the shot I would play here at home doesn't work in Bermuda.  Normally, I would play a little chip into the grass just short of the green; the ball will pop up and forward and roll onto the green.  I tried this shot on Bermuda twice.  First time, the ball landed on the grass and hopped up and back.  Huh?  The next opportunity I had for that shot, I tried it again; same result.  Not doing that again; now I just hit a risky flop shot.

 

However, the more you practice technique and become a more proficient short game player, I firmly believe that it improves your ability to more quickly adapt to different course conditions.  For example... chipping.  If you can consistently hit chips to your targets on the practice green, then your technique will allow you to do that most anywhere albeit the club may be different if greens are faster or slower.  If chips are fat, thin, flippy, then that game is not going to travel well to any course.

I typically follow the advice of a tour pro I heard on TV (I think it was Ray Floyd, but I am not sure).   He suggested that when close to the green, if you think you can use a putter, use the putter.  Most times your worst putt may still be better than your best wedge.

[Rusty1885]

I typically follow the advice of a tour pro I heard on TV (I think it was Ray Floyd, but I am not sure).   He suggested that when close to the green, if you think you can use a putter, use the putter.  Most times your worst putt may still be better than your best wedge.

Harvey Pennick said bad putt is better than bad chip.

 

When I play at a new course or course that I've not played in a while the short game is what save the round. If I can get it inside 130 yard I know I'm a few strokes away from finishing the hole. I've been practicing at a course that I'm not familiar but played there from time to time. I have a tournament this Saturday. It's a mountain course where the mountain slope effects every putts. So far the short game has bailed me out more than a few times.