New VS Old

[jturner7499]

The main thing I wanted to talk about here (and I'm sure I have more questions than answers) is face technology on putters.

 

Most of the big name club manufacturers come out with a slew of putters every year featuring their newest groove and insert tech that is supposed to help the player roll a putt easier and with more consistency then ever.

 

My biggest questions on this are 1) How much proof do they have that their tech works with real players? 2) if it does work then why do some of the most notable tour players still use 20 year old putters? 3) Would having the same putter with different face groove patterns and inserts be able to help your players depending on the course conditions they play in?

 

Feel free to leave your opinions below, I would love to hear what everyone has to say.

 

P.S if I'm wrong, feel free to tell me

 

 

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[cnosil]

My biggest questions on this are 1) How much proof do they have that their tech works with real players? 2) if it does work then why do some of the most notable tour players still use 20 year old putters? 3) Would having the same putter with different face groove patterns and inserts be able to help your players depending on the course conditions they play in?

 

Here are my thoughts on your questions

 

1. What kind of proof do you need? I am sure most companies can come up with measurements that support their claims. The bigger question is if what they are testing is relevant to improving putting. I think having a putter with the proper loft provides better more consistent roll than any face insert. Just because a putter or any club for that matter works for a player does not mean it is the right club for you

 

2. Your players have specific feels and distances that they know. Occasionally this technology will change these things and the player doesn't want to relearn the feel or distance. Examples: evnroll and ping grooves cause the ball to come off the face slower than a non grooves version. Sean Toulon told me about one time he got tiger to try one of his putters: Tiger took 1 putt handed him back the putter, said it was nice but rolled the ball too far. Some players are just as guilty as amateurs and will chase the latest and greatest or go back to something that worked in the past.

 

3. I wouldn't want to change putters inserts between rounds based on reasons above. Also your greens are pretty consistent from course to course.

 

 

These are my thoughts, Based on things I have learned from my putting instructor.

[GolfJunkie302]

I don't think new putters make a big difference. You have Jordan using an old SC. Then you have guys who swear by the original PING Anser. When you find the right putter, you keep it.

 

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[Cbk57]

I thought the same as GolfJunkie302 above but have decided that I am open to rethinking the subject. I am basing this on 4 reviews that I have seen.

 

There are three MGS reviews that really got me most of the way on this journey. The first two I looked at are the 2017 best mallet putter and best blade putter reviews. Evnroll won both of those tests. Among Evnroll putters and a Ping Putter the Evnroll ER2 won as the best overall performing putter in the 3rd review.

 

Most recently I found a review in which they did center and off center robotic testing at 25' and confirmed that evnroll putters are more consistent across the face of the hitting area and the results corresponded to their claims.

 

These tests show me that an Evnroll putter will help most golfers roll the ball more consistently on their intended line.

 

Based upon these 4 points, I will be purchasing an evnroll putter this year. I am convinced that it will help me be more consistent. That will increase my chances of making puts or controlling them.

 

If I get a chance I might go to somewhere that sells Evnroll and try several but barring that I feel for me the ER2 will be the best choice.

[Zylem]

I don't think new putters make a big difference. You have Jordan using an old SC. Then you have guys who swear by the original PING Anser. When you find the right putter, you keep it.

 

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This, all this lol. To me, putting is all feel. New tech is great because it gives the player another option in feel and weight. But once you find something your should stick with it.

 

I'm an anser player myself, old school, smooth face and no insert. It just works for me. I swapped to a 2 ball putter for a bit but have since gone back to the ping. Any time I'm in a golf shop I'll try out a few of the new clubs just to see what's available but I always keep coming back to my ping.

 

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[bens197]

I buy it to an extent. The face technology isn't nearly as important as the correct arc for the putter.

 

A Phil style heel putter may look great and I have several friends who gravitate towards these. Unfortunately as many of us know, it does not work well with a straight back and through stroke. It is a difficult method to sell, putting for the general public is so psychological that most folks purchase a putter based upon how cool it looks.

 

How many would benefit from an Odyssey 2 ball, rather they want the $500 Cameron Newport because it looks cooler?

 

Next take the loft.

 

If there was one option that is significantly limited, it is the loft of a putter. This presumes that we all strike the ball at the proper angle on the upstroke and thus promote a good forward and true roll.

 

I am a believer that there is technology for promoting a true roll. As far as retail goes, most putters are exclusively based upon a certain loft and lie and limit the optimal technology available.

 

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[PlaidJacket]

Once again... I too don't put much stock is fancy and or expensive putters. I have an expensive Edel that putts no better or worse than a $39 Odyssey I purchased at Academy years ago. The Edel feels good and it's lofted and weighted - counterbalanced well. It putts just fine. However, if it were to go missing I'd go back to the Odyssey in a heat beat. And never skip a beat. For me as long as I like the look and feel of a putter I'm good to go.

[jturner7499]

I really appreciate all the fees back guys and would have to say that I am interested in the tech side of the industry as far as things like EVNROLL for their proven consistency. However, I currently use an original Ping PAL with a super stroke mid slim 2.0 grip.

 

Keep the feedback coming!

 

 

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[00sportsman]

I'm in the "it's all about feel" camp, but would add confidence to that. I'm sure manufacturers could provide a ton of data otherwise, but I think the issues you see with players and putting come down to feel and confidence.

 

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[cnosil]

For those in the feel is the most important thing category,  do you believe you are the best putter you could possibly be?   If you don't make every putt then there is room for some improvement.  Given the same feel with added face technology that minimizes dispersion and distance loss on off center hits do you think you could be a better putter?  The question wasn't about cost or feel of the putter,  but could face technology help players putt better and if it does why don't people use those putters. 

[00sportsman]

Trying not to sound too argumentative, because I think this is a really interesting topic, I respectfully offer my rebuttal:

 

For those in the feel is the most important thing category,  do you believe you are the best putter you could possibly be? 

Of course not.  I'm just not convinced that a putter with new technology would improve my putting the way an hour a day on the putting green would.  Could it make me marginally better?  Perhaps.

 

 

If you don't make every putt then there is room for some improvement.

Of course, but I don't find it reasonable or realistic to think I could make every putt.  I don't believe there's a putter made that's going to make a significant difference on my attempt to hole a 45 footer with three breaks and a ridge in the middle.  There's a reason that hitting a green in regulation leaves two strokes to par.

 

 

Given the same feel with added face technology that minimizes dispersion and distance loss on off center hits do you think you could be a better putter? 

Sure, if you could actually hand me a putter that gave me the same feel as my Rife, but had super face technology.  But that's the real trick, isn't it?  Getting the same feel with different technology.  Heck, I've been in the store and tested "identical' putters (face/shaft/grip etc. supposedly exactly alike) that had distinctly different feel.  If the technology made that much of a difference, the feel wouldn't matter.

 

 

The question wasn't about cost or feel of the putter,  but could face technology help players putt better and if it does why don't people use those putters. 

I'm not sure claiming that feel is the most important aspect isn't answering the question.  I think the fact that people don't use those putters actually answers that question to begin with.  I could use a putter that cuts my dispersion in half, but if I'm not confident in the feel and I end up with a stroke that doubles the error, I'm right back where I started from.

 

I think that you could give me a piece of 2x4 on the end of a piece of broomstick, and if I prefer the feel and it makes me confident in what I'm doing, I'll probably putt better with that than a new technology putter that I can't get a feel for and have no confidence in.

 

The defense rests (for the time being.)

 

Respectfully submitted,

00sportsman

[cnosil]

Don't find your responses argumentative at all. I think the answer really lies within the personality of the golfer. You would like a player that is admittedly feel based. To you mechanics or technology isn't how you assess things. You generally assess the curve of a putt and feel how far the putter need to move for a particular length putt. you may find things like puttlab interesting but not defining in any way. Mechanics are used by nit relied upon; feel is you mechanics.

 

I start at the other end. I want to understand strike mechanics and how the design characteristic influence the rotation. I want to see how my stroke looks on puttlab and how different toe hangs and weight change the stroke. People like me start with measuring how far a putt will roll by figuring Out how far my hands need to move or what spot the putterhead needs to move too. Aimpoint is a solid way to judge break. Mechanic are a focus but they become a feel.

 

People are different and that is why you see these types of back and forth. You don't buy into my mechanics argument and I don't buy into you totally feel argument.

[revkev]

I really appreciate all the fees back guys and would have to say that I am interested in the tech side of the industry as far as things like EVNROLL for their proven consistency. However, I currently use an original Ping PAL with a super stroke mid slim 2.0 grip.

 

Keep the feedback coming!

 

 

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Have you ever been fit for putter before? I used the same putter for ten years with a tweak after 5 by a fitter. The tweak lowered my handicap index by a full stroke.

 

I keep seeing touring pros mentioned. What do they have to do with any of us? The best players here are around a plus two. That's not even on the same planet as a regular tour player, let alone Jordan Spieth. Don't worry about them, try to find out what's best for your game. That seems like the intent of the thread. So my recommendation would be go and get fit, try the fitters recommendation and practice your putting a lot.

 

 

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[cnosil]

I keep seeing touring pros mentioned. What do they have to do with any of us?

Must be something to what the pros are playing. After Reeds win at the Masters odyssey white hot pro #3 putters have quadrupled in price. 🤪

 

In my opinion whether you believe in putter fitting or not, you need to be able to consistently roll the ball on your intended line at the appropriate speed. If you do this with a 50 year old putter or the latest and greatest putter you are doing everything you can to make putts.

 

If you can't hit the line at the right speed you need to figure out how to accomplish these tasks. Just like any other golf club You can change your feel/mechanics to fit the putter or you can change the putter to fit your feel/mechanics. Additionally you can apply technology to help when the stroke isn't perfect.

 

In the end whatever approach you take to find the right golf club or putter it is a form of fitting. Some are more technical in nature and some are less technical. This is the same approach that the pros take with their clubs so it does actually apply to everyday golfers.

[AH1980MN]

Numbers don't lie. Tech works and looks and feel don't matter.

[00sportsman]

Numbers don't lie. Tech works and looks and feel don't matter.

Don't forget Mark Twain: "There are three kinds of lies - lies, damned lies, and statistics."

 

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[ED13]

Numbers don't lie. Tech works and looks and feel don't matter.

I agree with this for the most part but believe looks and feel contribute as well.

 

For looks, playing a putter with any glare or too light a colour causes problems.  I need a high contrast between the putter and sight lines or they become more of a distraction as I focus on a fuzzy line with my failing eyes.

 

As ar as feel goes I have had 3 putters I could roll very straight, my current Mizuno, a SC square back and an Odyssey I can't recall the model.  Practicing at home all 3 were equal.  On the course I had major issues with distance control with the SC and Odyssey.  I may blame the problem as feel but it may have been something technical like incorrect loft causing the ball to skid.  All i know was I could not get consistency with any but the Mizuno.

 

I set up a putter fitting now that they received their Evnroll putters, I am hoping to find the best of everything.

[revkev]

Must be something to what the pros are playing. After Reeds win at the Masters odyssey white hot pro #3 putters have quadrupled in price. 🤪

 

In my opinion whether you believe in putter fitting or not, you need to be able to consistently roll the ball on your intended line at the appropriate speed. If you do this with a 50 year old putter or the latest and greatest putter you are doing everything you can to make putts.

 

If you can't hit the line at the right speed you need to figure out how to accomplish these tasks. Just like any other golf club You can change your feel/mechanics to fit the putter or you can change the putter to fit your feel/mechanics. Additionally you can apply technology to help when the stroke isn't perfect.

 

In the end whatever approach you take to find the right golf club or putter it is a form of fitting. Some are more technical in nature and some are less technical. This is the same approach that the pros take with their clubs so it does actually apply to everyday golfers.

I still only buy into this in a limited way.

 

Here's why - the access that a pro has to equipment is far beyond what is realistic for most of us. It's his job, we have lots of other distractions. In many cases he is being paid to use a piece of equipment which can the be tweaked or even over hauled to make it work.

 

99 percent of the time the pro will have a huge advantage in familiarity with his putter over any of us because he's using it for two hours every day of the week either to practice or in competition.

 

It's not the same. I would argue that a recreational golfer (98 percent of us) who doesn't take advantage of putter technology to help mitigate against mishits and gain consistency is putting himself at a disadvantage. Those putters build in what the tour pro practices in.

 

 

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[thegolfclubdoc]

I have an old Ping putter that I use that I won't swap for anything new. I like the looks, feel, roll and I know how I perform with it. Putting is the best part of my game. I will not mess with it at all!

 

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[perseveringgolfer]

I think its feel over real when it comes to putters!

 

I've done the Ping fit saying I have a strong arc so I 'need' a toe hang putter! Personally I really like the toe hang looks like the anser style but when I tried a SBST mallet it just felt so solid and sat so square to my intended line. I still try toe hang Ping answer styles even scottys but the Taylormade Vicino spider is just so damn nice to putt with, its confidence building and I think putting is more mental than physical.