Scheduling a Fitting but don't want to change clubs

[Dooby]

Hey all,

I couldn't find if this question has been posted before but I am curious if it is beneficial or a waste of time to schedule a full bag fitting but for my current club heads. I am quite happy with my club heads and more concerned or curious if I am in the right shafts, lofts, lie, etc.  My club heads are all relatively new (about a year old if not newer) and I love the look/feel so I don't have a reason to change them out despite knowing a fitter can probably find club heads that perform better or more consistent for me and my skill level.

Is it worth it to do a full fitting or is it somewhat a waste of time because I know that fittings typically result in people getting new clubs completely? 

On a side note, I had a lesson yesterday and my coach actually recommended that I get someone to take a look at my lofts/lie angles and figure out the gapping a bit better but also just take a look because he thinks a couple of the clubs are slightly off. So that also is playing a role in my curiosity.

[GolfSpy_APH]

3 minutes ago, Dooby said:

Hey all,

I couldn't find if this question has been posted before but I am curious if it is beneficial or a waste of time to schedule a full bag fitting but for my current club heads. I am quite happy with my club heads and more concerned or curious if I am in the right shafts, lofts, lie, etc.  My club heads are all relatively new (about a year old if not newer) and I love the look/feel so I don't have a reason to change them out despite knowing a fitter can probably find club heads that perform better or more consistent for me and my skill level.

Is it worth it to do a full fitting or is it somewhat a waste of time because I know that fittings typically result in people getting new clubs completely? 

On a side note, I had a lesson yesterday and my coach actually recommended that I get someone to take a look at my lofts/lie angles and figure out the gapping a bit better but also just take a look because he thinks a couple of the clubs are slightly off. So that also is playing a role in my curiosity.

Few questions before give any sort of answer/advice. 

What is wrong or not going on with your current clubs that are causing you to think about doing is? If it just club gapping then I am sure there are shops that would do exactly that with you. A gapping session, versus fitting. To me fitting says I need new shafts, new something. It may be 6 of one, but asking to do a gapping session may help the fitter/club builder as well. 

In a perfect world you would have a shop that goes through your bag with 3 or 4 normal shots with each club. See where the gaps are, bend them come back try them and hit them again to see what is what. 

I would also suggest or say stick with wedges and irons at least for the moment. It could be a lot of swings and adding in a full bag could take a lot out of you. Plus the long game clubs can be used for different purposes so in general finding out what you need there I think should be seperate. 

I know you have a home setup so possible for you to get a general idea of gaps at home and then to the shop to have them tweaked? 

[Dooby]

1 minute ago, GolfSpy_APH said:

Few questions before give any sort of answer/advice. 

What is wrong or not going on with your current clubs that are causing you to think about doing is? If it just club gapping then I am sure there are shops that would do exactly that with you. A gapping session, versus fitting. To me fitting says I need new shafts, new something. It may be 6 of one, but asking to do a gapping session may help the fitter/club builder as well. 

In a perfect world you would have a shop that goes through your bag with 3 or 4 normal shots with each club. See where the gaps are, bend them come back try them and hit them again to see what is what. 

I would also suggest or say stick with wedges and irons at least for the moment. It could be a lot of swings and adding in a full bag could take a lot out of you. Plus the long game clubs can be used for different purposes so in general finding out what you need there I think should be seperate. 

I know you have a home setup so possible for you to get a general idea of gaps at home and then to the shop to have them tweaked? 

Yeah I would mainly be looking to see if I should be in different shafts and then also look at the gapping/loft/lie. I'm just not sure if a fitting would be worth it to basically only look at shafts or if it would be a waste since I am not interested in new or different club heads. 

And it makes sense about the swing fatigue since I know that is a real concern in fittings since, like you said, you ideally try out every club so its quite a bit.

[KC Golf]

Cheapest way to get a fast gapping analysis is to borrow a GC Quad indoors with your gamer ball.  Then you can see if your lies / lofts are out of whack.

Not sure the cost of a fitting is needed until you see anomalies on the LM.  But that’s what I did to see if I would benefit from a different FW shaft.

[cnosil]

My opinion would be to skip doing a shaft fitting and do a gapping session. Multiple reasons. 1. Changing out the shafts in you clubs would be a relatively expensive endeavor.   2. Your instructor probably would have commented if the shafts weren’t an adequate fit especially since he recommended getting the lofts investigated.   A gapping session will get the loft and lie angles setup in an ideal configuration. 

[Shrek74]

32 minutes ago, KC Golf said:

Cheapest way to get a fast gapping analysis is to borrow a GC Quad indoors with your gamer ball.  Then you can see if your lies / lofts are out of whack.

Not sure the cost of a fitting is needed until you see anomalies on the LM.  But that’s what did to see if I would benefit from a different wood shaft.

I agree here. There are generally places you can rent time on their GCQuad or Trackman and you can bring a few new gamer balls to use (no markings and need to be brand new). Getting these numbers this way will be a fraction of the cost of a fitting, and can lead you to a lot of good information. You can likely determine if perhaps you only need an iron check or maybe just a driver check for those shafts or whatnot. Again, saving you money. Good luck.

[rx1232]

It will be hard for them to "fit" you into different loft/lie angles without giving you a different club to hit. They are not going to bend your club just to see what you want :). 

 

I dont think it will hurt to get a fitting if you just want to challenge the assumptions of what you like. You never know!  

[cnosil]

4 minutes ago, rx1232 said:

It will be hard for them to "fit" you into different loft/lie angles without giving you a different club to hit. They are not going to bend your club just to see what you want :).

why are you saying this?  A gapping session is all about adjusting loft and lie angles to correct ball flights and distance gaps.  This is done with your clubs not another club.  Basically it is hit ball, make adjustment, hit ball, repeat until happy.   

[rx1232]

oh hmm. when i did mine it had to be with different clubs that were bent at different angles. While they had me try the same club (srixons), they had several heads across different lie/lofts. 

 

not sure how they would do this with your existing club, but if they can then i stand corrected!  i'm assuming irons and not drivers with just hosel adjustments.  I guess they could keep bending it every time, but i thought that bending it too much might not be good?

[cnosil]

1 hour ago, rx1232 said:

not sure how they would do this with your existing club, but if they can then i stand corrected!  i'm assuming irons and not drivers with just hosel adjustments.  I guess they could keep bending it every time, but i thought that bending it too much might not be good?

They use a loft lie machine and bend the club.  Drivers, fairway, and hybrids in general come in a single lie angle and can’t be bent; although some have sleeves that will adjust lie angle.  Loft can be changed on most clubs with adapters but it will impact face angle.   
 

for irons, you aren’t bending them a lot, there are techniques (sharpie test) to dial in what changes are needed for lie angle.  Loft is done after you have hot all you clubs and evaluate carry distance.  
 

If you are doing a from scratch fitting and they have a fitting cart with multiple heads with multiple lie angles you can do it that way.   During one of my fittings, the fitter just bent the club we were testing since they didn’t have all the lie angles.  

[hckymeyer]

I'm going to take the opposite side of this and say a fitting is a great idea.  I would preface this by saying it would depend on the cost as well.  I agree with what everyone has said here about gapping and getting loft/lie checked, but I think it would also be greatly beneficial to figure out the proper shaft as well.  At a minimum you want to make sure the length, flex and swing weight are working for your swing instead of against it.  You'll see better progress quicker if you are swinging clubs that fit your swing.  

Having said that I would check around for local fitters and let them know what you are looking for.  A chain fitter like a Club Champion probably isn't going to budge on pricing (but they do run 50% fittings from time to time) but if you find a smaller local fitter and let them know what exactly you're looking for they may have a deal where the cost could be less than a full fitting.  It's at least worth making some calls to check.

[RickyBobby_PR]

On 8/28/2023 at 11:01 AM, Dooby said:

Yeah I would mainly be looking to see if I should be in different shafts and then also look at the gapping/loft/lie. I'm just not sure if a fitting would be worth it to basically only look at shafts or if it would be a waste since I am not interested in new or different club heads. 

And it makes sense about the swing fatigue since I know that is a real concern in fittings since, like you said, you ideally try out every club so its quite a bit.

It can’t hurt to see if different shafts work with your swing but you would prob Amy be swinging a clubhead that’s different weight than yours even if the same model.

Then let’s say you do fit to a different shaft you have to factor the cost to replace which is going to run upwards of $500 once you buy shafts, have them trimmed and prepped, buy grips, plus the cost to pull the old shafts and install the new ones. Also cost of shaft will be higher in some cases if going graphite over steel.

 

So is the cost of the fitting plus the cost to reshaft worth it. Let’s say you get fit and there is a different shaft that works better but you decide to not change, now you potentially deal with doubts about bad shots/bad results that creep in.

As for loft and lie you can tell if what you have is fine or not but using the sharpie/dry erase marker test for lie and the watching ball flight for loft. Does the ball spin too much take loft off, if not enough spin add loft. If ball flight is ok leave loft alone

[vandyland]

Side note, @Dooby, you play the Cobra MB RFs? These things? 

SHEEEEESH!

In all seriousness, those are forged and so the lies and lofts can get a little out of whack over a year or more. I get mine (I have much friendlier forged clubs) checked every year. The stock shafts in those appears to be KBS C-Taper which I didn't love the feel of when I hit them but I prefer a more active, higher flight shaft if you believe in such things. 

Edited October 10, 2023 by vandyland

[Dooby]

16 hours ago, vandyland said:

Side note, @Dooby, you play the Cobra MB RFs? These things? 

SHEEEEESH!

In all seriousness, those are forged and so the lies and lofts can get a little out of whack over a year or more. I get mine (I have much friendlier forged clubs) checked every year. The stock shafts in those appears to be KBS C-Taper which I didn't love the feel of when I hit them but I prefer a more active, higher flight shaft if you believe in such things. 

Yes those are the clubs I play but I have the KBS C-Taper Lite stiff shafts.  I love these clubs even though many would say I am not a good enough handicap to be playing them or a full 4-PW of them.  I've had them for almost exactly a year now so that's another reason I want them checked and my coach said the same thing about them being forged and can be bent/altered just from use and life.

19 hours ago, RickyBobby_PR said:

It can’t hurt to see if different shafts work with your swing but you would prob Amy be swinging a clubhead that’s different weight than yours even if the same model.

Then let’s say you do fit to a different shaft you have to factor the cost to replace which is going to run upwards of $500 once you buy shafts, have them trimmed and prepped, buy grips, plus the cost to pull the old shafts and install the new ones. Also cost of shaft will be higher in some cases if going graphite over steel.

 

So is the cost of the fitting plus the cost to reshaft worth it. Let’s say you get fit and there is a different shaft that works better but you decide to not change, now you potentially deal with doubts about bad shots/bad results that creep in.

As for loft and lie you can tell if what you have is fine or not but using the sharpie/dry erase marker test for lie and the watching ball flight for loft. Does the ball spin too much take loft off, if not enough spin add loft. If ball flight is ok leave loft alone

Cost of my fitting is free for a full bag.  I had credits at GolfTec that expire at the end of the year and thought this would be a good use of them

[vandyland]

9 minutes ago, Dooby said:

though many would say I am not a good enough handicap to be playing them

They are very cool looking. Truly a one of a kind club. I remember hitting the Cobra Rev33 (precursor to those) when my coach had a set of them in for demo and I thought they were awesome. If you enjoy playing them then you should keep them in the bag. I was actually fine with them until I got to the 6 iron and then I got to where I couldn't hit them anymore. 

[RickyBobby_PR]

1 hour ago, Dooby said:

Yes those are the clubs I play but I have the KBS C-Taper Lite stiff shafts.  I love these clubs even though many would say I am not a good enough handicap to be playing them or a full 4-PW of them.  I've had them for almost exactly a year now so that's another reason I want them checked and my coach said the same thing about them being forged and can be bent/altered just from use and life.

Cost of my fitting is free for a full bag.  I had credits at GolfTec that expire at the end of the year and thought this would be a good use of them

Personally I wouldn’t do a fitting at golftec free or not. But again even at free the rest of my reply regarding the cost to upgrade is still there if the shaft isn’t the right fit, along with the possibility for doubt to creep in if you don’t upgrade.

 

[Dooby]

57 minutes ago, RickyBobby_PR said:

Personally I wouldn’t do a fitting at golftec free or not. But again even at free the rest of my reply regarding the cost to upgrade is still there if the shaft isn’t the right fit, along with the possibility for doubt to creep in if you don’t upgrade.

 

Why not as far as taking a free fitting at golftec? I don't necessarily want to take lessons there with having a current coach that I love working with and that has helped me shave ~10 strokes off my game since April.

And yeah I think your post makes sense. Like if they fit me into something new and different that feels awesome and I walk away because I don't want to change clubs, that will probably be on my mind.  

I am open to some changes in my bag except for my driver and my iron heads.  I'm sure they will try to talk me out of things in my bag or into new things so that I spend money like the 2i in my bag is probably an easy target.

[RickyBobby_PR]

2 hours ago, Dooby said:

Why not as far as taking a free fitting at golftec? I don't necessarily want to take lessons there with having a current coach that I love working with and that has helped me shave ~10 strokes off my game since April.

And yeah I think your post makes sense. Like if they fit me into something new and different that feels awesome and I walk away because I don't want to change clubs, that will probably be on my mind.  

I am open to some changes in my bag except for my driver and my iron heads.  I'm sure they will try to talk me out of things in my bag or into new things so that I spend money like the 2i in my bag is probably an easy target.

The options that golftec has are limited in terms of shafts. Only a few of the no upcharge options. The vast majority of their staff aren’t even what is considered a good fitter. While it’s personal preference it’s indoors and you don’t get to see true ball flight changes and if that ball flight fits your eye or what you are trying to do on the course.

Unless I’m mistaken they don’t have loft/lie machine so you can’t see what the changes are doing to the ball flight since they can’t change it and it’s indoors.

What you are looking for out of the fitting is best done where your clubs can be adjusted on the fly and you can see ball flight after the change. 

[Dooby]

16 minutes ago, RickyBobby_PR said:

The options that golftec has are limited in terms of shafts. Only a few of the no upcharge options. The vast majority of their staff aren’t even what is considered a good fitter. While it’s personal preference it’s indoors and you don’t get to see true ball flight changes and if that ball flight fits your eye or what you are trying to do on the course.

Unless I’m mistaken they don’t have loft/lie machine so you can’t see what the changes are doing to the ball flight since they can’t change it and it’s indoors.

What you are looking for out of the fitting is best done where your clubs can be adjusted on the fly and you can see ball flight after the change. 

Oh, interesting - I didn't know any of that besides it being indoors.  I actually reached out to GolfTec around the time I posted this asking if they would be ok with doing a fitting where I am not interested in new clubs and they said absolutely and I took that to mean they'd be able to handle loft/lie and shafts and etc.

I may just look into using my credits towards something else there.

[cnosil]

3 hours ago, RickyBobby_PR said:

Unless I’m mistaken they don’t have loft/lie machine

Per the fitting page on their website:  "We will make any loft/lie adjustments for free. If needed"    They also discuss checking the loft/lie once received from the OEM.

[RickyBobby_PR]

 

2 hours ago, Dooby said:

Oh, interesting - I didn't know any of that besides it being indoors.  I actually reached out to GolfTec around the time I posted this asking if they would be ok with doing a fitting where I am not interested in new clubs and they said absolutely and I took that to mean they'd be able to handle loft/lie and shafts and etc.

I may just look into using my credits towards something else there.

 

8 minutes ago, cnosil said:

Per the fitting page on their website:  "We will make any loft/lie adjustments for free. If needed"    They also discuss checking the loft/lie once received from the OEM.

Good to know. So they can make the changes but imo not being able to see the actual ball flight after the change and compare it to before the change is a big con for me.

the other big issue is that unless they are pulling the shaft and installing a new one in the OPs head he will be testing shafts that aren’t in the clubs he is using. There’s no guarantee that the shafts tested in another head will work for him in his clubs. I’ve had shafts in p790 not work for me in pxg 0311t and 0311p, also werent a good fit in the latest jpx heads

[Dooby]

UPDATE POST:

Is anyone familiar with Club Champion? I had a free fitting there this morning and actually had a really fun and educational experience.  They were completely on board with me basically keeping my clubs but being interested in different shafts and lofts/lies.  However, I am curious what people think of their shaft process.  My fitter kept referring to their process as being VERY unique and what they call "puring" the shaft.  It sounded like it was a mix of a quality control process and a customization of weight and the shaft profile.  I am wondering if this is a lot of sales talk and essentially what they do isn't unique or all that spectacular.

For what it is worth, I did really find a benefit in a different shaft but they actually didn't push me towards that. They said my current iron shafts are very similar to the one I tested and that they could "re-pure" my current shafts for a lesser cost and give it the same sort of specs and feels and see similar benefits. I currently have the KBS Tour C-Taper Lite Stiff shafts (110g). The shaft I landed on during the fitting was the ProjectX IO 6.0 shaft. 

A big change that I will want/need done is my lofts and lies. I bought mine under "standard" specs but they said there was no way mine were ever built to be standard. My lofts were 2-3 degrees weaker in the entire set than standard and my lie angles were roughly 2 degrees flatter.  Also, my swing weight was a C5 which surprised most of the staff and they suggested I get to a D4 (I have not heard of swing weight or what that scale means until this fitting).

[Josh Parker]

19 minutes ago, Dooby said:

UPDATE POST:

Is anyone familiar with Club Champion? I had a free fitting there this morning and actually had a really fun and educational experience.  They were completely on board with me basically keeping my clubs but being interested in different shafts and lofts/lies.  However, I am curious what people think of their shaft process.  My fitter kept referring to their process as being VERY unique and what they call "puring" the shaft.  It sounded like it was a mix of a quality control process and a customization of weight and the shaft profile.  I am wondering if this is a lot of sales talk and essentially what they do isn't unique or all that spectacular.

For what it is worth, I did really find a benefit in a different shaft but they actually didn't push me towards that. They said my current iron shafts are very similar to the one I tested and that they could "re-pure" my current shafts for a lesser cost and give it the same sort of specs and feels and see similar benefits. I currently have the KBS Tour C-Taper Lite Stiff shafts (110g). The shaft I landed on during the fitting was the ProjectX IO 6.0 shaft. 

A big change that I will want/need done is my lofts and lies. I bought mine under "standard" specs but they said there was no way mine were ever built to be standard. My lofts were 2-3 degrees weaker in the entire set than standard and my lie angles were roughly 2 degrees flatter.  Also, my swing weight was a C5 which surprised most of the staff and they suggested I get to a D4 (I have not heard of swing weight or what that scale means until this fitting).

You can youtube a few vids on pure shafts. They tried to push that with me as well.  I went home and did some research and determined most people won't be able to tell the difference from what I have seen and read.  I think they charge $40 per club for that. If you are re-shafting your clubs their pricing is probably ok.  I know when I did my fitting they were going to charge $100 for the shafts on top of the club and then another $40 if I wanted them pure.  

I chose to go to Srixon and order my clubs with no upcharge for the same shafts. 

[KC Golf]

On 10/28/2023 at 4:27 PM, jdparker said:

You can youtube a few vids on pure shafts. They tried to push that with me as well.  I went home and did some research and determined most people won't be able to tell the difference from what I have seen and read.  I think they charge $40 per club for that. If you are re-shafting your clubs their pricing is probably ok.  I know when I did my fitting they were going to charge $100 for the shafts on top of the club and then another $40 if I wanted them pure.  

I chose to go to Srixon and order my clubs with no upcharge for the same shafts. 

What I didn't realize is that Club Champion bought Pure, so they have a vested interest in pushing it.  Its clever that they keep that info on the down low.  I assume other fitters are less interested in pushing it, if it were for the fact that they bought the machine and need to justify having it.

I find the work that TXG did testing Pure was really good.  Basically it has no material difference.  Its on YouTube if you search for it.

The question I have is if PGA / LPGA pros had to pay $200 a club (basically 10x the going price, so its apples to apples on Income) to get each club Pured as opposed to getting it done for free would they pay for it.  I think they just might, since its a relatively small cost for positive perceived / placebo effect.  

[RickyBobby_PR]

12 minutes ago, KC Golf said:

The question I have is if PGA / LPGA pros had to pay $200 a club (basically 10x the going price, so its apples to apples on Income) to get each club Pured as opposed to getting it done for free would they pay for it.  I think they just might, since its a relatively small cost for positive perceived / placebo effect.  

Not all pros do it so if it was that great you would think every pro would do it since it’s free. I think some using it would pay for it

[Josh Parker]

11 minutes ago, KC Golf said:

What I didn't realize is that Club Champion bought Pure, so they have a vested interest in pushing it.  Its clever that they keep that info on the down low.  I assume other fitters are less interested in pushing it, if it were for the fact that they bought the machine and need to justify having it.

I find the work that TXG did testing Pure was really good.  Basically it has no material difference.  Its on YouTube if you search for it.

The question I have is if PGA / LPGA pros had to pay $200 a club (basically 10x the going price, so its apples to apples on Income) to get each club Pured as opposed to getting it done for free would they pay for it.  I think they just might, since its a relatively small cost for positive perceived / placebo effect.  

I'll have to check out the video.

I wasn't aware they bought Pure either.  Makes total sense why they are pushing it.  

For the pro, who can tell a putter is 1/16 long after playing a couple holes, pure may be worth it, but for 99% of golfers from what I have seen, they can't tell the difference. 

 

[KC Golf]

10 minutes ago, RickyBobby_PR said:

Not all pros do it so if it was that great you would think every pro would do it since it’s free. I think some using it would pay for it

I assume that the club OEM manufacturers pay for their Tour players to use the Pure SST service for free, but you are right I don't know if that's the case.  

Totally agree, I think certain PGA guys would pay for it, if they had to.  There is an instagram for a Tour Truck guy (Scotteggolf) that goes to basically every PGA Tour event and he shows a handwritten list of guys each week that ask for Puring.  Its a fairly big list (also on the Pure SST instagram account) .

I would be interested to see if LPGA pros would pay for Puring (out of their pocket), if that was their only option.  I think that's a good proxy for if there is a real benefit from Puring.

[Josh Parker]

Got the jumbomax on and heading to the range to see what it does.