Stack Training System - 2023 Forum Member Review

[GregGarner]

19 hours ago, K8golfer said:

Do any of the testers have back (or other) issues that have been helped or hindered thru the protocol? I’m concerned about back pain with swinging with the weights and yes, at 64 it could be an age issue. I do work out but it still may not be an applicable tool for 64 y/o female. Current drive 180 - 200 but really REALLY want more!! Thoughts??

I have recurring back issues even before The Stack, so I definitely don’t want to even hint that the sharp drop in speed for me between sessions 2 and 3 is because The Stack (specifically) caused an issue with my back.

I had a nagging lower back pain flare up and cause a massive drop in speed and then, right as that was clearing up, I tweaked something in my shoulder blades while warming up for a regular round of golf. While yes, it was the day after a session, I don’t believe it was related. It’s clearing up now, so I’m hoping to see my speeds climb back up!

[twyatt700]

On 10/31/2023 at 7:35 PM, K8golfer said:

Do any of the testers have back (or other) issues that have been helped or hindered thru the protocol? I’m concerned about back pain with swinging with the weights and yes, at 64 it could be an age issue. I do work out but it still may not be an applicable tool for 64 y/o female. Current drive 180 - 200 but really REALLY want more!! Thoughts??

I think if you’re doing other exercises and stretches to improve your back stability it should be fine. You shouldn’t have to overswing in order to see results. I have hip and back problems as well, granted I’m 34 but I have actually felt better after the workouts vs before.


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Edited November 2, 2023 by twyatt700

[twyatt700]

Through 12- felt the fastest I’ve ever felt with this training. Weird thing is during the warm up I can never get the recommended speed with 195 but today I decided to just see what my driver speed was after failing to my target speed and after doing a few swings with the driver (which felt great btw) I was 5 mph faster with the 195. Wonder if swinging the lighter club helped me get my mechanics in sync? either way it worked! PR’d on all my weights today


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[Rearviewmirror]

I thought this was super interesting:

 

[GolfSpy_BOS]

TRAINING UPDATE!  - sorry I didn't get this up over the weekend, but it looks like our testers are seeing some great numbers as we get to the end of the foundations program! 

 

 

I wanted to comment on my 15th session.  It was easily my worst and I felt like I could not get any energy into my swings.  I thought back on this and our kickoff call with Sasho and after today's bounce back session I've come to a conclusion:

SURFACE MATTERS.  For that slow session I swung in the garage which in itself is not a problem, I've done it before, but I usually would do it on my hitting mat.  That wasn't out so I just wore sneakers and worked on the garage floor.  I think I wasn't getting the grip I needed to make powerful swings.  

 

Let's get pumped to close out foundations!  

 

[hckymeyer]

5 hours ago, GolfSpy BOS said:

 

SURFACE MATTERS.  For that slow session I swung in the garage which in itself is not a problem, I've done it before, but I usually would do it on my hitting mat.  That wasn't out so I just wore sneakers and worked on the garage floor.  I think I wasn't getting the grip I needed to make powerful swings.  

 

Let's get pumped to close out foundations!  

 

I didn't really think about that because I've been inside before, but my number 14-16 sessions were all inside with just running shoes and our garage floor and I saw slower speeds.  I'm going to be in that situation for most of the winter, but the last session where I PR'd the 195g I was outside on the much rougher concrete in the driveway.  I didn't think much of it at the time, but reading your comment now makes me wonder... 

Maybe that means once i get back on grass with golf shoes I could be even faster

[twyatt700]

I didn't really think about that because I've been inside before, but my number 14-16 sessions were all inside with just running shoes and our garage floor and I saw slower speeds.  I'm going to be in that situation for most of the winter, but the last session where I PR'd the 195g I was outside on the much rougher concrete in the driveway.  I didn't think much of it at the time, but reading your comment now makes me wonder... 
Maybe that means once i get back on grass with golf shoes I could be even faster

Theoretically grass is softer and will absorb more energy, concrete should produce more speed if you have a good grip- my fasted speeds have been on the rubber workout mats in the garage for example- hard surface plus really solid grip


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[DaveP043]

Back for another update, now I've finished 17 sessions of the Foundations program.  My 195g speed is up about 6 mph from the Baseline, the eSpeed is up by a similar amount, and I continue to set personal bests in both heavy and light weights, even though my 195g speed is been steady.  But Sunday I really saw the difference on the golf course.  IT was a little chilly, a light breeze, and I did a Stack session before heading to the course.  Well, out of 11 drivers I hit, 6 were further than I've been all year.  Not by a yard or two, but by 10 to 15 to 20 yards.  Change comes slowly, a random long drive can happen based on wind, hard fairways, accidental solid contact, anything, but when over half of the drives are the longest of the year, I have to believe its REAL distance gains.

I have one more session to finish the Foundations program, probably Thursday this week.  After that I'll probably take a while before starting a new Program, I'll be spending 2 weeks in Pinehurst.  What i WILL do is the short "Speed Priming" sessions as often as I can before I play.  There's no question that doing Stack properly is a good bit of work, but there's also no question in my mind that its improving my distance.

Edited November 7, 2023 by DaveP043

[skraeling]

Im probably gonna pick up one of these used if I see one.  no need to pay for new and shiny.  If anyone wants to sell at the end of this, lemme know.

[DaveP043]

3 minutes ago, skraeling said:

Im probably gonna pick up one of these used if I see one.  no need to pay for new and shiny.  If anyone wants to sell at the end of this, lemme know.

I have a feeling the reviews will be pretty positive at the end of the day, I'll certainly recommend the Stack System.  And speaking only for myself, I don't plan to sell mine, I'll keep using it to maintain and (hopefully) increase the speed gains I've already seen.  Beyond that, none of us are allowed to sell for a while, its a condition of being a Reviewer.  You can read it here:

where it says "First I hope that the person enjoyed the review and was able to provide a good thorough and honest review. If it doesn't work, so be it! That being said we do not allow for any reason a member to sell their testing equipment for at least 2 product cycles"

It appears you can find the Stack System on eBay.  You'll also need some type of swing speed monitor, the PRGR we got as part of the package works really well.  If you buy the Stack System second-hand, make sure you understand how your subscription to the app will work.  The app is a critical part of the entire system, as you may have read each Stack session is provided by the app based on results of previous sessions, using algorithms developed by Dr. McKenzie. If you buy the Stack directly from the manufacturer, a 2-year subscription is included.  IF you buy it second-hand, you may be paying $99 per year right from the start, I just don't know.

[GolfSpy_APH]

1 hour ago, skraeling said:

Im probably gonna pick up one of these used if I see one.  no need to pay for new and shiny.  If anyone wants to sell at the end of this, lemme know.

A reminder that testers are NOT allowed to sell any testing product. They can gift it or pass it along if it does not work for them, however selling is strictly prohibited for the first two years of two product cycles. 

If a tester is seen trying to sell their testing equipment prior to that time it marks them not eligible for any future testing opportunities.

[skraeling]

42 minutes ago, GolfSpy_APH said:

A reminder that testers are NOT allowed to sell any testing product. They can gift it or pass it along if it does not work for them, however selling is strictly prohibited for the first two years of two product cycles. 

If a tester is seen trying to sell their testing equipment prior to that time it marks them not eligible for any future testing opportunities.

and yes I DO still have my sugar balls before anyone asks.

[Dooby]

Love that there is a progress chart to refer to.  As someone that is considering picking this up in the offseason it is pretty promising to see that 6 of 7 (not counting GolfSpy Sam) all are seeing noticeable speed increases.

[GregGarner]

15 minutes ago, Dooby said:

Love that there is a progress chart to refer to.  As someone that is considering picking this up in the offseason it is pretty promising to see that 6 of 7 (not counting GolfSpy Sam) all are seeing noticeable speed increases.

Well that felt targeted.

 

 

(lol jk -- I feel like the test had to have at least ONE guy who doesn't seen gains)

[Dooby]

2 minutes ago, GregGarner said:

Well that felt targeted.

 

 

(lol jk -- I feel like the test had to have at least ONE guy who doesn't seen gains)

No ill intent. I noticed some of your posts reference injuries so I assumed that plays a role. 

[GregGarner]

22 minutes ago, Dooby said:

No ill intent. I noticed some of your posts reference injuries so I assumed that plays a role. 

Nah, all good  Yeah, I think injury definitely played a part. Temperature and location of training have also played a factor. The spike you see on week 2 was a VERY warm day and I was outside, on grass, in spikes, after playing 18. (I've had other grass/spikes/post-round combos, but not at that speed obviously!)

The other thing I'm going to pull for my review is my Garmin health data, notably my "training readiness" and HRV scores, which have not been amazing over the last several weeks, for a variety of reasons. What's not demonstrated in the driver eSpeed chart is the various other personal bests that get logged throughout. For example, in my most recent training session, my eSpeed was 107, but I hit individual PBs at two different weights (280g and 95g) AND a set PB for 95g. So I know I'm improving and the potential is there...

[Dooby]

46 minutes ago, GregGarner said:

Nah, all good  Yeah, I think injury definitely played a part. Temperature and location of training have also played a factor. The spike you see on week 2 was a VERY warm day and I was outside, on grass, in spikes, after playing 18. (I've had other grass/spikes/post-round combos, but not at that speed obviously!)

The other thing I'm going to pull for my review is my Garmin health data, notably my "training readiness" and HRV scores, which have not been amazing over the last several weeks, for a variety of reasons. What's not demonstrated in the driver eSpeed chart is the various other personal bests that get logged throughout. For example, in my most recent training session, my eSpeed was 107, but I hit individual PBs at two different weights (280g and 95g) AND a set PB for 95g. So I know I'm improving and the potential is there...

Oh cool. So it really is 7 of 7 seeing improvements. 

[hckymeyer]

Finished up my first full program today called Foundations.  Kind of a cool little message at the end with some stats from the whole program.  When looking at the speed and distance potential please keep in mind a few things.

• It's based on a MAX swing (meaning all out harder than you would ever swing on a course)
• It was one session out of 18 total that I hit that
• The Distance Potential equation makes some pretty big assumptions (almost none of which are true for me, elevation is closest I'm at 883')

  • 90° F temperature

    1,000 ft. elevation

    Total distance (carry + roll)

    Moderately firm fairways

    Neutral Angle of Attack

    Optimized launch conditions (club fitting efficiency)

    2019 ProV1x Ball

All that said I'm pretty happy with the results so far.  I haven't played much at all due to weather (snow) here in MN, but it's melted and will hopefully hit 50 degree's tomorrow so I have a tee time at 12:30 and I'll see if anything translates to the course so far

[DaveP043]

57 minutes ago, GregGarner said:

What's not demonstrated in the driver eSpeed chart is the various other personal bests that get logged throughout. For example, in my most recent training session, my eSpeed was 107, but I hit individual PBs at two different weights (280g and 95g) AND a set PB for 95g.

I've been seeing this too, my eSpeed has been pretty steady over the last 4 or 5 sessions, but it seems like I hit a new Personal Best with one of the other weight combinations in pretty much every session.  The improvement is there, it just hasn't made the tick over into the next mph faster for 195 g.

[Rearviewmirror]

Have any of the testers taken note of their Arccos/Garmin distance numbers before starting to then compare with "after"? I get that it's a bit tough, as both of those systems average out distances across 10s of shots.

[twyatt700]

Have any of the testers taken note of their Arccos/Garmin distance numbers before starting to then compare with "after"? I get that it's a bit tough, as both of those systems average out distances across 10s of shots.

Yeah, I drive it about 250-275 on course so I’m curious to see what the difference will be. I played sim golf last week but I don’t think I touched the center of any club face so I’m not reading into that too much. I may have had a few cocktails before…


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[GolfSpy AFG]

If I can offer some advice: when you get out on the course, of course you’re not going to swing at Max intent, but still go after it…the point of this training was to take the governor off…don’t re-install it yourself.  And you may be surprised at how much straighter you are by just going after it rather than trying to steer it.

Might not be everyone’s experience, but something to think about…

[DaveP043]

2 hours ago, Getoffmylawn said:

Might not be everyone’s experience, but something to think about

I agree completely, I feel like I've learned to swing closer to my max consistently, without a serious loss of directional control.

[GregGarner]

9 hours ago, Rearviewmirror said:

Have any of the testers taken note of their Arccos/Garmin distance numbers before starting to then compare with "after"? I get that it's a bit tough, as both of those systems average out distances across 10s of shots.

I'm not going to be able to get a reasonable comparison for this initial test, but will be able to compare longitudinally. The weather is turning and it's getting colder and wetter, so on-course distance is about to take a hit. At best it would be cool to see my numbers staying the same, but I'll need to wait until spring to really see on-course gains.

That being said, and this is totally anecdotal, I went out a couple weeks ago to play 9 before work (read: I didn't warm up and just rushed to the first tee). Usually, I hit driver on the first hole, a par 5 with water at ~290 and if I make decent contact, I can expect to hit it 250-260. When I'm fully warmed up, I hit 3-wood to take water out of play. However, having just done a Stack session the night before, this time driver went 283 according to my watch. Watching the ball continue to carry actually made me nervous since I'm used to a quick rainbow ball flight and this one seemed to just keep sailing... I'm not saying the Stack is giving me an extra 20+ on a cold swing, but I'm also not NOT saying that.

Edited November 8, 2023 by GregGarner

[Rearviewmirror]

Decided to pull the trigger and did the baseline with The Stack. It definitely made swinging my own driver feel very easy! Fascinated to see the final results for folks here.

[twyatt700]

Feel like I’m hitting a bit of a plateau with these last few sessions, two more to go to finish up foundations!


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[GolfSpy AFG]

1 hour ago, twyatt700 said:

Feel like I’m hitting a bit of a plateau with these last few sessions, two more to go to finish up foundations!


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I’m sure you’ve seen Sasho’s video in the Stack library concerning speed gains not being linear.  Keep at it!

[skraeling]

On 11/8/2023 at 11:23 AM, Getoffmylawn said:

If I can offer some advice: when you get out on the course, of course you’re not going to swing at Max intent, but still go after it…the point of this training was to take the governor off…don’t re-install it yourself.  And you may be surprised at how much straighter you are by just going after it rather than trying to steer it.

Might not be everyone’s experience, but something to think about…

That was always Dechambeaus thinking.  Just get atter.

[twyatt700]

So I am onto my last session of the foundations. I believe now that I’m at the end this program is definitely what it says- foundation. Bases on the structure of the swing weights in each session it follows a strength building to overspeed plan with the 195 as a check in weight. So I’m guessing based on the data collected from this program they get more into the complex programs. I’d be curious to talk with Sasho more about the science behind it.


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[Rearviewmirror]

19 hours ago, twyatt700 said:

So I am onto my last session of the foundations. I believe now that I’m at the end this program is definitely what it says- foundation. Bases on the structure of the swing weights in each session it follows a strength building to overspeed plan with the 195 as a check in weight. So I’m guessing based on the data collected from this program they get more into the complex programs. I’d be curious to talk with Sasho more about the science behind it.

How have you found the gains have translated onto the course? Looks like you're up 6-8mph which I'm guessing "should" be 15-20yds?