Launch Monitor Accuracy

[MonroeBob]

…. Or the lack there of!!

When it comes to golf club considerations these days, everything is based on launch monitor data/results.  Admittedly, I have very little experience with them. A few swings at golf stores, several outdoor demo days and like three sessions in a sim at two sport centers. 
 

Recently, I tested a driver at Edwin Watts. Spent nearly an hour with their fitter. Some of the data reflected aligned with my known experiences on the course  other data appeared
way off. Example: the launch indicated me launching at 16-17*  ok, I can accept that as my on course tee shots generally launch high.  However, the ball flight on ten shots hooking out of the house, averaging 37 yards left, in no way is characteristic of my flight pattern/norm. Therefore, I discounted that data.
 

Second testing same club, different golf store. Launching same, ball speed same. Flight path however, fade right. both golf stores use GCQuad. 
 

Sim session results matched second club testing quite close, although shorter distance data. Used overhead cameras system I believe. On course with same driver resulted in small fade bias. 
 

My question is how can people put so much stock in launch monitor data when in some cases the data is very inaccurate?  Help this older (old school) guy understand please.

[StrokerAce]

I don't know this for a fact but at my PGASS there was an 'event' for an OEM new driver launch. You hit your driver and then theirs. My driver seemed to go farther than normal but ... and then their driver went over 300. 

I've never hit a driver that far. My swing speed and ball speed aren't fast enough. 

Moral of the story: golf stores (like Edwin Watts) are in the business to sell clubs and they "may" juice the LM to a degree.

[cnosil]

18 minutes ago, MonroeBob said:

My question is how can people put so much stock in launch monitor data when in some cases the data is very inaccurate?  Help this older (old school) guy understand please.

Can’t tell you anything other than  launch monitor data is accurate .  Some people dont swing well indoors and get odd results.   Were you hitting the ball you normally play?  We also can’t verify that the launch monitors were setup and calibrated properly.   Don’t know how you are evaluating distances unless you measure the carry and rollout of your shots and the simulated ground conditions match your on course ground conditions.   I hit on launch monitors on a regular basis and they accurately reflect my on course performance.  
 

If you are seeing extremely odd results with your gamer clubs on a launch monitor it is either the setup or you aren’t swinging well in the conditions.  
 

simply put PGA professionals who play golf for a living rely on they data they get from  launch monitors.  
 

if you were asking about personal launch monitors and not a GCQuad or trackman then there may be some distance accuracy issues 

Edited January 22 by cnosil

[2puttbogey]

This is a very good topic. It seems golf has turned into a game of data. I’ve always felt the launch monitors at golf stores were a little off in some way.  With the rise of YouTube club reviews, and the golf gurus on podcasts it seems like the data has become more important then the results. Hitting indoors sometimes tend to throw some off as well. Overall launch mos, and simulators should be a tool only not the main factor in decisions vector the data. When your standing on the first tee all that data means nothing.

[MonroeBob]

20 minutes ago, cnosil said:

Don’t know how you are evaluating distances unless you measure the carry and rollout of your shots and the simulated ground conditions match your on course ground conditions.

I evaluate distance on carry only as rollout induces too many variables based on local conditions.  Use of rangefinder and gps shot tracking to ball marks gives me quite accurate data on every club in my bag. 

[MonroeBob]

16 minutes ago, 2puttbogey said:

With the rise of YouTube club reviews, and the golf gurus on podcasts it seems like the data has become more important then the results. Hitting indoors sometimes tend to throw some off as well. Overall launch mos, and simulators should be a tool only not the main factor in decisions vector the data. When your standing on the first tee all that data means nothing.

I love watching them. For the few that test indoors as well as out, I find it fascinating when on course doesn’t match their indoor data. I agree they’re definitely a tool and as such we all decide how to use that tool.  

[cnosil]

57 minutes ago, MonroeBob said:

I evaluate distance on carry only as rollout induces too many variables based on local conditions.  Use of rangefinder and gps shot tracking to ball marks gives me quite accurate data on every club in my bag. 

Ok. You seem to have your distances done for on course.  If you are that accurate, I am surprised you carry dispersion on a launch monitor doesn’t align.   If it doesn’t it is either you struggle hitting indoors or improper setup. 

[cnosil]

1 hour ago, 2puttbogey said:

This is a very good topic. It seems golf has turned into a game of data. I’ve always felt the launch monitors at golf stores were a little off in some way.  With the rise of YouTube club reviews, and the golf gurus on podcasts it seems like the data has become more important then the results. Hitting indoors sometimes tend to throw some off as well. Overall launch mos, and simulators should be a tool only not the main factor in decisions vector the data. When your standing on the first tee all that data means nothing.

Analytics drives everything.   yes, a launch monitor is a tool and not something you should use to chase numbers or will predict how you will hit the ball on the course.  They simply provide reliable data that can be used to understand performance.  Then; as you said, you have to apply the data once you get to the first tee.   I personally do disagree with your statement that all “data” means nothing, you still have to understand the data about your game and how the data helps get you around a course.  

Edited January 22 by cnosil

[Josh Parker]

My guess is that the monitor could be setup wrong or they input certain parameters on the unit that could affect the outcome.  

I am testing the Mevo+ and the first day I set it up at the range, it wasn't set up just right.  It was capturing the right ball flight but it was well left of the center line (lefty).  They are accurate but if not set up perfectly or as close to, it can throw things way off.  

[NM01]

1 hour ago, cnosil said:

Can’t tell you anything other than  launch monitor data is accurate .  Some people dont swing well indoors and get odd results.   Were you hitting the ball you normally play?  We also can’t verify that the launch monitors were setup and calibrated properly.   Don’t know how you are evaluating distances unless you measure the carry and rollout of your shots and the simulated ground conditions match your on course ground conditions.   I hit on launch monitors on a regular basis and they accurately reflect my on course performance.  
 

If you are seeing extremely odd results with your gamer clubs on a launch monitor it is either the setup or you aren’t swinging well in the conditions.  
 

simply put PGA professionals who play golf for a living rely on they data they get from  launch monitors.  
 

if you were asking about personal launch monitors and not a GCQuad or trackman then there may be some distance accuracy issues 

This.

monitors need to be calibrated, indoor monitors need proper space and also some need markings on the balls.

if any of these are off then you will get inaccurate results 

[2puttbogey]

4 hours ago, cnosil said:

Analytics drives everything.   yes, a launch monitor is a tool and not something you should use to chase numbers or will predict how you will hit the ball on the course.  They simply provide reliable data that can be used to understand performance.  Then; as you said, you have to apply the data once you get to the first tee.   I personally do disagree with your statement that all “data” means nothing, you still have to understand the data about your game and how the data helps get you around a course.  

The analytics are good at the pro level, elite amateurs, and perhaps lower handicap golfers. For the recreational golfers there’s not enough consistency in their games for it to be meaningful. In regards to the topic of launch monitor data, does it really matter to a 15 handicap what the 7 iron spin rate is? It probably varies quite a bit. Does the launch monitor accurately reflect that? Should they care? 

[cnosil]

1 hour ago, 2puttbogey said:

The analytics are good at the pro level, elite amateurs, and perhaps lower handicap golfers. For the recreational golfers there’s not enough consistency in their games for it to be meaningful. In regards to the topic of launch monitor data, does it really matter to a 15 handicap what the 7 iron spin rate is? It probably varies quite a bit. Does the launch monitor accurately reflect that? Should they care? 

I guess it depends on what analytics you are talking about.   The question you are asking is should someone that doesn't understand the data be looking at the data presented on a launch monitor.  My answer would be no.  a launch monitor is a tool that can be used by instructors or fitters to assess the 15 handicapper to determine if they have the right clubs, show the golfer they don't really hit the ball as far as they do, or like video show them that they aren't swinging like they think they are.  

Yes,  some launch monitors show standard deviation so the can actually evaluate consistency.   I care about driver numbers because I am a low spin player and want to understand what drivers may not work for me or what things in my swing cause my spin levels to dip.  

Your point that recreational golfers are not consistent enough is the same point people make against fitting, learning course management, and many other areas of golf.   It all comes down to how dedicated the golfer is and what they want to learn.   The thing about data is that it is an objective measurement that eliminates opinions.   Are they for everyone?  No.  Are they accurate?  with proper setup yes. 

 

[NM01]

1 hour ago, 2puttbogey said:

The analytics are good at the pro level, elite amateurs, and perhaps lower handicap golfers. For the recreational golfers there’s not enough consistency in their games for it to be meaningful. In regards to the topic of launch monitor data, does it really matter to a 15 handicap what the 7 iron spin rate is? It probably varies quite a bit. Does the launch monitor accurately reflect that? Should they care? 

Most golfers have no idea how to interpret the data and then how to make any changes from it, even low handicap golfers.

The launch month will accurately reflect that their spin and launch is all over the place as well as other data that tells them why it is. Should they care? Yes if they want to get better. If they want to get better and reduce the variability in club delivery they should see an instructor. 
 

The mid to high handicap inconsistency isn’t from their swing their ability to make the same compensation from swing to swing to swing. Their mechanics don’t change just where the club is due to the lack of consistent compensation 

[Madden B]

Weighing in here, we got a Skytrak+ for Christmas and I have been in the garage hitting balls 5-6 days per week for the last month now. I also go to an outdoor range (heated bays because this winter in Utah has been particularly cold) 2-3X per week to see the full flight of my golf shots. Here is my take:

LM isn't perfect, obviously. BUT the data is very useful, especially if used consistently, but I don't think that all data matters for every level of golfer. I have been working on swing speed and have seen it consistently improve over the last 30 days and have gained a 3-4 MPH. As my overall average speed each continues to increase, so has my carry, ball speed, overall distances, smash factor, etc. All of that is consistently matching the training and practice I am putting in. And that matters to me and is validating the work I am doing with my speed trainer and fitness routine. And being able to see that consistently improve is great. And even if the data isn't 100% accurate, I know that I am moving in a positive direction because of the numbers. So the data is very useful in that regard. And from what I have seen, those numbers aren't far off anyways, especially in my irons. I think that my carry numbers for my clubs from wedges up to about a 5 iron are really, really close to what I see in real life, within a few yards. Driver can feel a little off at times, could just be our LM isn't a $20k unit, but overall the data seems great.

Ball Flight - This is the thing that I am most confident about and really feel like it is very, very accurate. I prefer to play a slight draw and have made that my stock shot to eliminate misses to the right. When I mishit the ball or don't quit catch it right, the LM picks that up and the ball flight is reflected on screen. And I am seeing the ball flight in the simulator and also seeing the exact same flight at the range. I would always hit balls into a net in the garage all winter long but never really knew what the ball was doing in the air, just guessed if it was the flight I wanted based on how the shot felt. I am very confident that what shows up on the screen is what my ball is actually doing. And I am also using it to help work on hitting fades on command for those times I need to hit one. Learning to move and work the ball is easy to do in the sim and again, I am confident of the ball flight. And I think that seeing your ball flight is critical for any level of golfer, even more important for recreational golfers to work on consistently hitting the ball in the direction of where they want it to go. Dialing that in, IMO, is probably more important than trying to hit a drive 300+ because you can train for speed but it really doesn't matter if you can't control where it is going. 

Spin rates, launch angle, club path, face to path, advanced data, etc - I care about the spin rates for my clubs, especially driver, and I have been watching that because I am a very low spin player. I have been testing drivers because I feel like I don't get enough spin with my Stealth Plus and feel like it is costing me distance. BUT my dad, who is about a 10 Hdcp, isn't nearly as concerned and is more interested in consistent swings and ball flight. Some of the spin rates will matter for him and he does care if his drivers gets too spinny, but those numbers aren't things that he fully understands or really cares about. He looks at the swing path data and is working on not coming over the top so much, which is his biggest miss. And the data may not be 100% perfect, but it seems good enough to help him work on that area and he has been seeing more consistent ball flight and less big fades or slices as he has focused on that for the last several weeks. So I think again, it really depends on the golfer and what data matters to them based on what they are using the LM for. And if you get your baseline numbers and then work around those, you can see how you improve on the things that matter most to you. 

Bottom line, what I can say is that I can't wait for tournaments to start this spring and I think that I am going to come out swinging this year vs. previous years where my game has faltered a bit over the long winters. I have so much more confidence knowing that the ball is going to go where I want it to go and won't have to spend a month grinding the rust off of my swing. Distances will be dialed in a bit more on the course and in real world conditions, but I have a really good foundation and idea where I am at because of the data I am seeing and getting. Overall, I think that everyone would benefit from having regular access to LMs, especially if they use it consistently.

 

 

 

 

 

[Burningbush]

If you are seeing longer numbers make sure you ask them to show you the gravity on the launch monitor. I was testing my driver compared with a new one at a golf shop and after I saw a 15 yard increase I grabbed my own driver again and the person running the monitor was very quick to make sure he changed the club I was using on the monitor. He said that it was so the result would show in a different color, and when I said that I didn’t care about the I thought it would be the end of it, but when I tried their driver again they switched the club. So I asked to look at the settings and I noticed that when I was using their club the gravity was set to 90% 

I know they’re trying to sell products but I was pretty disappointed that they were doing this. I asked if all of their shelf clubs were at 90% gravity for tester and they acted like it was a mistake.