Pace of play

[Notjustduffin]

Having played mostly public courses in NY and now NC the pace of play has always been average round of 4 hours. That is until the last 2-3 years. The public courses I play have boomed with players that have watched the tic tok and YouTube explosion and go out trying to mimic the popularity and on course antics of who they watch. Some are very slow deliberate stand over a shot waggle seventeen, eighteen times back off look again and duff a shot straight into the water or woods. Then stand there looking like how did I do that I did everything I watched on YouTube.  Some days rounds of 9 take me 3.5 hours. Public courses are great but have to take it with a grain of salt alot of days and slow play effects my play so gets to be really frustrating

 

[Golf Detective]

Courses and system is totally at fault: Courses are more interested in pushing as many tee times as possible for the money.They could care less about pace of play. Before allowing any golfer on the course, do as Europe countries do. All players have to pass the following tests: an etiquette test: a players ability test to see what days they can play and from what tees they are allowed to play from. Have rangers which actually enforce pace of play policies instead of just riding around in carts doing nothing! USGA AND PGA NEEDS TO GET OFF THEIR LAZY BUTT AND ACTUALLY BE PROACTIVE WITH PACE OF PLAY. PGA Tour needs to grow some “golf balls” and make the players stop taking all day to play any shot! The tour players are the absolute worst example to our youth on the etiquette of pace of play! Our youth watch and duplicate these ding bats so that’s how they learn to play the game so it gets passed down thru the generations and just gets worse!

 

 

[RetiredUSN]

Our norm in SE Virginia is probably 4 - 4.5 hours on average.  My group of friends usually average 3:30-3:45.  But we are also retired and play during the week and very rarely on weekends.  I agree with 10 minute intervals for tee times, I know this will hurt the course on revenue but have happier customers! Other areas that would help is to have people play ready golf, stick to the 3 minute rule on lost balls, not 10 minutes, have a starter to get people off on time and pair people up instead of 4 twosomes, a Marshall riding the course helping wish pace of play.  

[St_Jimmy]

I really hope the majority of people that are in such a hurry are talking about private courses. I get not wanting to stand around after each shot, but there are a finite number of viable hours to play golf, especially when you live somewhere with weather that will close courses for months straight. I played yesterday with my wife and in-laws, both of the women playing are new (less than 5 rounds). Are we not allowed on a municipal course since we need to use different tee boxes and they obviously aren’t good enough to shoot par on every hole yet?

[Pfaugh]

My home course has tried to spread tee times out to 12 min but that only helps for the first few holes and groups get bunched up usually behind a group of lemmings. (golfers that all go to each ball in turn and analyze the shot or all help to find an arrant ball in the weeds) Slow play has sadly become part of the game since COVID. Every one pays the same so they believe they are entitled to take their time and enjoy their round with their friends. 

[Zebhead47]

We have a group that plays early Sunday mornings and sometimes we have played as a sixsome and played in less than 4 hours because we play ready golf and we don’t line up putts for the fourth time. Slow play falls into 3 major categories: playing from the wrong tee based on your abilities…you know the macho guys that show up, get on the back tees and immediately yank one 100 yards into the woods; those that see golf as a social meeting where talking and visiting with each other is the main goal, not playing golf…a popular thing with couples; those that think the way to learn the game is to get on a 7,000 yard course and take 7, 8, 9’s on every hole and these people seem to be oblivious that they have the course back up.
You get behaviors you enable and course management is who enables slow play. If you allow 5 hour rounds, there will be groups that will take 5 hours. Just played an Interclub match and the pro told us you will play in 4 hours and if you get a hole behind the group in front of you, you will skip the next hole and the hole will be considered halved. We played in 4 hours. The same round at our course would have been 4.5-5 hours because people would have gone into their “pro” mode because our pro shop makes zero effort on reducing slow play.  Scottish and Irish courses tend to be a lot more serious in stopping slow play. Played Ireland last year and the pro shop actually sent out an additional caddie to speed us up and we were playing at about a 4 hour pace walking. 

[Thud]

Allow rangers to force people to skip a hole. This has to be CLEARLY presented to each golfer before they tee off by starter!!!

[GlenW]

I think most of it relies on the players.  Even at a normal pace 4-4.5 can feel like a 10 hour round if the group in front of you is constantly looking for lost balls, re-hitting shots, or they sneak a 5th into their group.  The quickest way to improve pace in my opinion is just to be courteous.  If I’m OB or in a sketchy area we give it no more than a minute if ppl are behind us and then take the stroke or if the boys are feeling gracious they’ll give you a pace of play drop and not charge you the penalty if you “should” have been able to find it. We generally stick to the rules but will bend a few to make sure we aren’t the pace problem. 

Edited Monday at 12:09 PM by GlenW

[Kevin W]

I noticed courses I've been to that have Marshalls driving around monitoring pace of play keep things moving well, asking slow groups to pick up the pace. Allot of it with slow groups is just not playing ready golf. Once in the fairway, the players should disperse to be ready to play their ball when it's there turn instead of sitting in the cart waiting. Marshalls who keep pace of play as it should be, make it better. So long as they do it professionally. I wish all courses would have pace of play Marshalls. Also, a friendly reminder to keep pace at check-in when paying in the pro shop. 

[TK_]

This year, with 10 minute intervals, I have experienced some quite terrible rounds of waiting. Some taking upwards of 5 hours (Linfield National), others taking 4 hours and 45 minutes (Bella Vista and Town & Country Links). I do run into issues with waiting more often than not due to my length with my shots. Though, having to wait is troublesome. My best rounds come when I play the earliest tee times and get to set the pace myself. I have played 2 hour rounds when that is the case (and it isn’t cart path only).

[work2playgolf59]

I have one option, but it is likely hard to manage.  Have the start check each player's GHIN and then put each player at the right tee box.  Just because one player in the group can play the black, doesn't mean everyone should play that tee box.  This is ultimately one of many causes to slow down the round.   As mentioned, it is hard to manage and will possibly upset the group, but it is the reason for the handicap and the multiple tee boxes.

[Alan Scalzi]

We run into this issue every weekend! I'm starting to believe it's more educational now! Maybe signed explaining the boxes and whom should be playing from the tips and how to speed up your round, you don't need 6 practices swings before every shot and lastly if the hole ahead of you is open and the people behind you are waiting for you that's a sign to hurry up and you shouldn't need the players assistant to tell you to get a move on it! These were all issue we came upon this weekend and yes I understand they book every time and some on most courses on the weekends. Happy golfing!

Edited Monday at 12:23 PM by Alan Scalzi
Grammar 😊

[Irish-Assassin]

ITS CALLED THE SPEED YOUR ASS UP OR MOVE TO THE SIDE PLAY. 
Golf courses are sometimes the biggest issue with this,  just print of card and give them to people as some don’t get it add in a Marshall or two on a course helps, sadly courses don’t like paying for Marshall, at my course when I was an assistant pro we offered two four hour shifts and your reward was free golf. 
We always had a never ending list of people and with a little coaching we never had an issue. But if the above doesn’t apply go to below. 
 

The progression of golfers around a course is similar to traffic on city streets, replete with slowpokes, speedsters, bottlenecks and breakdowns.

The difference is that traffic on a course is mostly self-policed.

In the absence of strict laws and rigid enforcement, we’re left to follow the unwritten rules of etiquette, which brings us to this week’s comportment dilemma: When should you let another group play through?

The first commandment is as simple as a tap-in: If you’re holding up traffic, let the folks behind you pass, just as you should if you’re puttering along the freeway at 40 miles per hour.

Faster travelers always deserve the right of way. Unless, of course, they’ve got nowhere to go. On jam-packed tracks, there’s no point playing leap frog. Doing so helps no one. It can even make things worse.

Three golfers walk up the fairway at a course. Either keep up your pace or know the rules to let others play through.

But let’s assume congestion isn’t an issue (and if there’s a hole open ahead of you, it’s not), and your group is on the green, with golfers standing, arms-crossed, in the fairway behind you — the golf equivalent of flashing the high beams. If this happens once, it might be an aberration. If it happens a second time, guess what? You’re the problem. Proper etiquette requires you to step aside.

There’s a good chance this will happen on a par-3, where slowdowns are most common. The process here is easy, says Lou Riccio, author of Golf’s Pace of Play Bible: “Wave them up while you are near the green, let them putt while you are planning your putts, then let them go to the next tee first.”

You may also like The Etiquetteist: Is it poor form to talk to your partner’s ball?

If they catch you on the tee box of a par-4 or par-5, Riccio says, “Let them tee off right after you have hit, then let them move down the hole with you but at some point let them go ahead.”

Riccio’s emphasis is pace of play. But pace and etiquette are interrelated. Most golfers understand this. Sadly, a myopic few do not. They refuse to let folks through, or they piss and moan about it. Why is sometimes hard to say, though it often boils down to ego or entitlement, or, most likely, a little bit of both. It’s never too early in a round to do the right thing (if your foursome’s on the 1st tee, and a single ambles up, let the single go). But is it ever too late? The 16th tee is a reasonable cutoff, unless the group behind you is shattering a land-speed record. Though the rules of etiquette do not require it, you’re wise to let them through whenever they catch you, even as late as the 18th tee.

That’s a rare occurrence. But golf’s a funny game; odd things happen. Good thing is, when it comes to waving through, two fundamental rules should cover all scenarios: apply common courtesy and common sense.

 

[TCal]

We have tournament play every other Sunday and have had 5 - 6 hour rounds with 70 - 80 players.  Unacceptable!  We’ve started making note of the tee time, turn time and end time.  We are now

1) using times per hole on the scorecard, speaking to each player at checkin on target times for the turn,

2) having the proshop call us for groups late making the turn,

3) speaking directly with the marshals and providing them expectations and “permission” to manage pace

4) monitoring gaps between end times. (8-10 minutes is 10). Longer times cause course backup. 
 

5) looking at patterns with “requested groups” playing and limiting requests (too much socializing)

6) offered Rules clinics

7) ensure the group tees off on time 

Local rule for OB/lost ball

9) Play ready

10) Tee box forward based on age

11) Stroke limit 

we will now ask in our club survey for member ideas for penalties and will use some of the ideas from this forum to include.  
 

Our most recent round was around 4:35 for the groups, and 4 hours for the lead group. I’ll feel successful though once it’s consistent.  

Edited Monday at 12:30 PM by TCal
Added more things we do.

[sue3putt]

Playing from the wrong tees is the main culprit of slow play.  If the player cannot reach the green in regulation........MOVE UP!  Abolish RED tees so that high HC men will play from that yardage.  My club changed the Reds to Blue and we do have men playing from there.

[Alan Scalzi]

On 6/22/2024 at 3:41 PM, Cruise said:

So I work at a semi private golf club. Some folks, usually members or better players, complain the pace of play is too slow.  What can a busy course do to achieve an acceptable pace of play up?  We average 4 to 4 1/2 hours per round. Granted better players can play at a pace which is less than 4 hrs, however when you mix in all the different ability levels for all the different players on a weekend day is our average an acceptable pace?  It’s like folks forgot how long a round took them when they first started playing.  I would love to hear feedback from the masses!  Thanks for the input 

You don't need to practice your swing on every shot and looking for balls that you hit out of bounds when people are waiting behind you with a hole open in front of you. I believe if course educate people before their round that would help!

[tip taylor]

4 hours on most courses problem is that golfers keep on hitting shots over 10 and that's a problem we have in our group that 9 is as high as we go since 10 or more doesn't fit on the scorecard 

[scbryan2160]

It is very easy to cut down pace of play… if players stop telling 5 minutes of stories on every tee box, you can easily play in 3.5 hours on most courses 

[mjmcf]

I am a very fast player and I prefer to play with faster groups. That said, I'm not certain it's fair to say "a round should take no more than four hours". The true determining factor (IMO) is whether or not your group is holding it's place on the golf course. Some courses are more difficult, some layouts are going to take longer due to several factors. So - the 4 hour rule isn't necessarily a good indicator of slow play. The real issue is whether your group keeping up with the group in front of you. Obviously, the gap between groups can widen due to several factors, such as a lost ball, a series of poor shots that require extra searching, etc. BUT - if a group falls two holes behind they need to speed up. The ranger/marshall pro-shop staff need to police this and either make the group pick up and get back in place, or let two groups play through. Bottom line: make rules, post them, and ENFORCE THEM.

[RanMan]

Sure, television has slowed things down to a creep. People want to play like a pro

[Striker]

An average round at the courses I play pre-COVID were 3-3:15 now 4-5 hours. I don't mined playing 4-4:!5 since that is expected. However, with the boom of golf there are to many people playing the wrong tee, not playing ready golf and don't even get me started on how they drive the carts.  You have people taking 10 practice swings then getting back behind the ball and visualize there shot for a minute and then step in to take 3 more practice swings before they hit. Another instance I had a father playing with son who appears to be about 10 and was clearly just learning and he had him playing form the middle tees and he could not hit it more then 70 yards. 

The courses need to enforce what tees you play. I played the Ocean Course at Kiawah once and when I got the first team I was heading to the back tee because I was a 5 at the time and the started told me unless I was scratch I need to move up a tee box!! I will play the forward tees some days and then the back tees others since it changes up the courses and what clubs you have to hit. It enables me to work on a variety of shots. I'm not as concerned with what I shot but enjoying the day all while playing quickly. 

 

[squirrel211]

My idea on the fix (at my club anyway); I think you should be put on probation at the course if you're identified as slow.  Probation can be:

- You can only get tee times at certain times/days

- You can't play certain tees (although in my experience this doesn't mean much other than to bruise the offender's ego)

- You have to complete a 5-hour-long online course before being allowed to make a tee time.

*** If the slow people are guests, the probation applies to the member, and the guests have a play moratorium of 1 year.

 

To get off of probation, you need to play with the pro/assistant pro, at their convenience, and play 9 holes in under 90 minutes.

 

"Slow play" should be identified as "holding people up," and should mainly apply when the slow group does not allow people to play through when there is space in front of them. 

[tchat07]

I feel like the biggest issue I have noticed post covid is that some courses are no longer "filling the sheet". I've noticed many times where you have a 4-some followed by 3 2-somes and it inevitably slows up play. My dad and I play once a week and I've asked people if they'd like to join us and have been turned down multiple times. So it's not only golf courses but others who would just rather play with just there buddy or by themselves instead of joining another group.

[njcoopnj]

Better pace of play, if it is not a tournament round, tournament rounds take forever, always have, always will, there are some reasons for this, but that is another discussion.

Play the right tees

Play ready golf, this means be in position to play your ball whenever possible. Don't stand there or sit there and watch every shot watch. If you are walking this should be easy. If you are in a cart whenever possible split the distance between balls and walk to your ball.

Use net double bogey, pick up your ball, for those that still might not get this, it is par plus 3

Play everything as a lateral (red) hazard. I think this should be a rule change.

Do not spend a lot of time looking for lost a ball, if you and the rest of your group don't find it right away, take your drop using the lateral hazard rule. Yes, as soon as you play the dropped ball, someone will find your ball.

On and around the green, when you have one player that is way off the green and even though you are on the green or just off, but farthest from the cup, instead of waiting for them to walk all the way to their ball, assess their shot, make their shot, you should go ahead and putt or chip. Whenever possible putt out.

 

 

 

 

[Cruise]

1 hour ago, trike11 said:

I see you are in Ontario, NY, which course? I grew up in Sodus so I am curious.  :-))

The biggest issue I see is ready golf and it happened to me this weekend. The group on front of us rode around together like they were attached at the hip even if their balls were far a part.

Also, tee time intervals can also be a challenge. I get it, clubs need to make money, but 8/9 minute tee times stuff too many people on a golf course sometimes.

I work at Webster GC

[Dave Hamilton]

I believe that if you advertise the pace of play at 4.30 you will get 4.30 and worse...4.30 seems to be the standard pace of play for courses in the Vegas market. Set the pace expectation at 4 hrs and you get an acceptable 4 to 4.30.

[Scott Newman]

22 minutes ago, squirrel211 said:

My idea on the fix (at my club anyway); I think you should be put on probation at the course if you're identified as slow.  Probation can be:

- You can only get tee times at certain times/days

- You can't play certain tees (although in my experience this doesn't mean much other than to bruise the offender's ego)

- You have to complete a 5-hour-long online course before being allowed to make a tee time.

*** If the slow people are guests, the probation applies to the member, and the guests have a play moratorium of 1 year.

 

To get off of probation, you need to play with the pro/assistant pro, at their convenience, and play 9 holes in under 90 minutes.

 

"Slow play" should be identified as "holding people up," and should mainly apply when the slow group does not allow people to play through when there is space in front of them. 

Agreed - if you have known players or groups slowing play - they get relegated to later tee times as a result … makes everyone move faster 

[Striker]

The other way to improve speed of play is do what Germany did many years ago. You have to have a license to play golf. Below are some information. 

To play golf in Germany, most golfers must possess a license called a “Platzreife” before they can get on the green. To get a license, you can expect to pay at least $300 for a five-day course that involves several hours of training each day. Then you must pass a series of tests.

The “Platzreife” is a legal requirement to play golf in Germany, instituted over 40 years ago. No other country in Europe requires such a license, but most of Europe’s courses require a certain handicap. German golfing associations say it is necessary to prevent unskilled players from holding up the games of others. Germany has no courses open to all, like the public ones in the U.S. So, the “Platzreife” is a way to control who gets to play.

[SecondandGoal]

19 hours ago, funkyjudge said:

I have been known to walk off the course after the front nine when that front nine has taken more than 2:30 to play.

Just did it Saturday. 2:40 on the 8th hole, it was 92 degrees out, waiting 10 minutes on every tee box. And the round was fine for the first 4 holes. Didn't even get to the 9th.

The rangers had come by twice to apologize for the pace of play, but whatever else they were trying to do didn't improve it.

[Chand657]

I'm a big proponent of using handicap tees instead of gender ones. The higher the handicap, the farther up you play. This would help the pace of play tremendously and people would learn the game better and quicker.