Shorter Driver, Higher Loft

[RoverRick]

I have been playing terribly for a while, but the last two weeks, I have gotten it together for everything except the driver. No problem. I've been hitting a 3 wood off the tee. I played 36 holes on Wednesday and used my driver 12 times and only hit 4 fairways. I still managed awesome scores, but I was concerned. My 3 wood was leaving me a lot of real estate and I had to be careful not to pop it up off the tee,

 

Well, I decided first I wanted a Mini, and then decided to see about making my own Mini driver. I took the shaft out of my R11 14* 3 wood and and stuck it in my R9 Super Deep 10.5 and turned it up to 12*. This is a pretty small looking head, although it has a very deep face. It measures about 44" overall  but it is 43" to the center of the face.

 

So Thanksgiving morniing I slipped out to the club with the this "Mini". It was windy and wet and generally nasty conditions, the greens were slow and fuzzy and I left several putts inches short. I hit driver and Mini off every tee, but had already decided I was going to play the Mini's ball.

 

7/7 on fairways hit. no big surprise. But astonishingly, the Mini was past the driver on mishits (driver mishits there were no Mini Mishits), and within a yard of the driver on good hits. I saw some balls on the range so I went and hit them, and this reenforced my finding on the course.

 

I gave up no real distance and gained more consistency with the shorter shaft and higher loft.

 

Of course this could change and I will try again when the course is drier but until then, it looks like I have a new bag arrangement.

 

 

As far as that goes....

 

I have had Hogan Apex Edge CFT's since they first came out, but I never really loved them. They had higher spin than I like and the distance was not what I expected. I traded in some Hogan FTX's for them and that was my biggest club mistake ever. So, I shafted them with C Tapers that were in the garage, and I love them. I get the "summer distance" with these now even though it is much colder. So they are in the bag, along with Scor Wedges.

 

 

I have the 42 (9i) and 48 (E) as well as the 53 and 59 but the chrome is falling off the 48. It is so ugly I refuse to have it in my bag. I sent pictures to Hogan (Scor) and they agreed it was a defect and they would replace it, but only if I bought more clubs. this did not leave me with a warm and fuzzy feeling towards them and any future purchases. Yeah, I noticed this when I bought it as a little blip, and then did not play them again until 6 months later, but it has gotten worse.  And since the 48 is not in the bag then the 42 is not either. 

 

 

Ok, so I digress about Scor, my new winter bag for my course is as follows:

 

R9 Super Deep set @ 12* on Fujikura Motore F1 (43")

   980Fairway 17* on Talamonti PD80 (42")

  MP Fli Hi 3 & 4 on KBS Hybrid S

  Apex Edge CFT 5-E on KBS C Taper S

ScфrGolf 4161 53* & 59* on True Temper Dynamic Gold Wedge

  MP T12 64* on True Temper Dynamic Gold Wedge

  GSS Newport 1.5

 

If I find that I need a real driver, especially at a longer course, I will add a SLDR Driver and replace long irons with a hybrid..

 

So how many have tied the shorter drivers?

[MattF]

Can't say that I have tried a shorter driver, but I tend to hit my 3 wood straighter than the driver and I think that it's because of the shorter shaft. Shorter shaft = hitting the sweet spot more consistantly thus keep or even gaining distance.

 

So, I'm contemplating cutting my driver (Ping G20 12°) down 1 1/2", lead taping it and seeing what happens.

[PlaidJacket]

For some reason I'm going to consider a new custom fit driver again for 2016. I guess it's because the driver (excluding putter..soon to be a new Edel) is the only non-custom fit club in my bag. I play mostly all Wishon clubs and love them. Last spring I was fit for new Wishon 919THI 10.5* driver along with a 929HS-4 16.5* and 775HS-3HB 21*. I don't know how it happened but after I received the driver I could never hit it well at all. Compared to my SLDR 14* which I received for the MGS review in spring of 2014. I tried the 919 many times for several weeks and I just could not hit the thing well. First off my ball flight was too low and I'd at times also produce a low hook. The 919 driver was at 44.5" in length with a traditional shaped head and beautiful. My SLDR is 45" I even went to far as to take both clubs to a local club performance center and tested them on a Trackman outdoor. I don't have the data we gathered that day due to the Pro not saving it for some reason. Ugh. But the data as I recall was quite good for the Wishon 919. Perhaps even just a tad better than the SLDR. However, the problem for me was ball flight and that alone. Distances, spin and smash were all close. I don't know how I settled on the 919 during my fitting and it doesn't matter any longer. My fitter guarantees his clubs/builds. If you don't like a club he builds he'll either make it right or refund your money. He's a stand-up guy and I'd go back to him in the future. Sadly, I opted for a refund since he's 4 hours away. Some of the reason that perhaps the driver didn't work for me is due to Wishon's unique face design and probably I just didn't get a good fit. It happens. Below is some information regarding Wishon's driver designs.

 

 

 

Wishon Golf demonstrated the technical knowledge and the courage to deviate from more than 100 years of tradition in woodhead face design to depart from the old method of vertical roll radius and replace it with a unique vertical face design that ensures more consistent loft up and down the face. As driver heads have grown from 200cc to 460cc in the past 15 years, driver face heights have increased from an average of 1.5” (39mm) to an average of 2.2” (55mm) up to as much as 2.4” (60mm). That means when all other companies choose to use a typical 10” to 12” vertical roll radius up and down the face, the loft of the driver will be as much as 3-4 degrees lower on the bottom of the face and 3-4 degrees higher on the top of the face.
For golfers to achieve a consistent launch angle with such drivers, they have to develop the skill to hit the ball in an area the size of a thumbtack! Wishon Golf's Graduated Roll Technology (GRT) face design is now incorporated on virtually all of the company's driver and woodhead designs and delivers a far more consistent launch angle for much more consistent distance and flight for every type of golfer.

[revkev]

Very interesting topic as I'm on the hunt for a driver.  In my past three fittings I've been fit for 45", 44.5" and 45.5" with my driver and the lofts have been 10.5, 9.75, 12.0.  Each driver was from a different OEM BTW and in 2 cases I had the run of the lot in terms of what driver/shaft combo to end up with.  All have different than stock in them.

 

In all cases I was hitting the ball great on the day of my fitting but here's what I've learned after the fact.  I do not do well at 45"!  I'm fine at 45.5 actually more than fine at somewhere between 45.5 and 46 and of course I'm fine at 44.5 but at 45" I will tend to heal the ball getting too much spin and too low a ball flight.  I've also learned that I'm better off with a set up that has me closer to 14.5/15 - 2200-2500 - My current set up gets me in the 16.5-17/1900 range - I'm pushing the envelope too much there beyond a doubt -

 

So my search will look to give me a driver that launches around 15 with 2,400 on center hits.  I think that's the ideal combo for the conditions that we face most frequently in Florida.

[Kenny B]

 

Wishon Golf demonstrated the technical knowledge and the courage to deviate from more than 100 years of tradition in woodhead face design to depart from the old method of vertical roll radius and replace it with a unique vertical face design that ensures more consistent loft up and down the face. As driver heads have grown from 200cc to 460cc in the past 15 years, driver face heights have increased from an average of 1.5” (39mm) to an average of 2.2” (55mm) up to as much as 2.4” (60mm). That means when all other companies choose to use a typical 10” to 12” vertical roll radius up and down the face, the loft of the driver will be as much as 3-4 degrees lower on the bottom of the face and 3-4 degrees higher on the top of the face.

For golfers to achieve a consistent launch angle with such drivers, they have to develop the skill to hit the ball in an area the size of a thumbtack! Wishon Golf's Graduated Roll Technology (GRT) face design is now incorporated on virtually all of the company's driver and woodhead designs and delivers a far more consistent launch angle for much more consistent distance and flight for every type of golfer.

 

I never paid that much attention to the Wishon drivers, except I loved the look of the new 919.  This face description has caused me to think about my SLDR and my trajectories.  I also use a 14* and there are times when I hit it pretty high, then other times when it's very low.  I can even tee the ball higher and still hit a line drive.  With my aged body there are days when I don't stay down through the ball like I should.  I wonder if the Wishon design might help.

[RoverRick]

 

Wishon Golf ...depart from the old method of vertical roll radius and replace it with a unique vertical face design that ensures more consistent loft up and down the face. As driver heads have grown from 200cc to 460cc in the past 15 years, driver face heights have increased from an average of 1.5” (39mm) to an average of 2.2” (55mm) up to as much as 2.4” (60mm). That means when all other companies choose to use a typical 10” to 12” vertical roll radius up and down the face, the loft of the driver will be as much as 3-4 degrees lower on the bottom of the face and 3-4 degrees higher on the top of the face.

 

Interesting concept of the flatter face. I would think this also made the driver much less forgiving, since the roll also tends to impart spin on the ball, especially towards the horizontally vs vertical misses. I am not a Wishon fan and not likely to try it anyway, but how is it as far as forgiveness?

 

-----------

 

I did not really have a problem with hitting the driver straight until I went to the square to square swing. This made the irons so much straighter and longer, and I had much more confidence in the irons. Since on 7/8 par 4's I could hit into bunkers or hazards with the driver, and 2/4 par 5's  had too much trouble around them to go for in 2. I began to hit 3 wood or irons off the tee and suddenly, I had a problem hitting my driver.

 

Nothing some range time probably would not have cured but.... I was talking with a friend the other day about wanting a Mini and I thought this.

 

I generally get a tremendous amount of roll with my driver, but have only tried this when it was wet and cold, so while I will keep this set up in the bag, I can see actually adding a real driver when and if the rain ever stops.

[NiftyNiblick]

The full size, 460 cc driver is completely unplayable for me. With the ball teed up that high, it's like having to play a ball-above-feet, side hill lie from the tee box, the one spot where a player is afforded a perfect lie. Also have to play the ball further left than opposite the inside the left heel, and I find it hard to follow my swing that far unless I'm playing a parachute shot with a nine-iron.

 

 

A fairway wood with a broken tee pushed almost all the way down to its cup is what I prefer. Even the new steel mini-drivers have club heads just as big (250-260cc) as some of the first titanium drivers.

 

 

The TM AeroBurner TP mini-driver is only 43½ long (stock--43" long reshafted for me), so that one works. Unlike the regular version, it has a slightly open face and a flatter lie angle, i.e., it doesn't compensate for over the top casters, Not crazy about the white crown, however. I don't know who comes up with these ideas.

[fozcycle]

When I received the Paderson shaft, it was 1" shorter than my Project Xv at 45.5". That said, it took me about 4 weeks to get used to the shorter shaft. Now that I have had it in the bag for two months, I have modified my setup to tee it up a bit higher then drop my right shoulder below my left. This helps to project the ball flight higher but much straighter. My distance is now between 185-210 with most at 200. Even though they may be a bit shorter, they are in the fairway and make it much easier to go for the green.

[BIG STU]

Personally the chrome coming off the wedge would not bother me in the least bit if I really liked the wedge and hit it good. Respectfully though I can see your point about it. I would try to contact some one higher up in the Scor (Hogan) company and get the issue resolved.

[Dhuck Whooker]

My-bro-the-club-ho is going heavy, the heavier the shaft, the better he hits it, 50,60,70 grams, way too light, he just got a steel shaft (110 grams)  for his 913D2, and he is giddy.

 

Unfortunately, the golf gods will take care of that giddiness.

[Kenny B]

My-bro-the-club-ho is going heavy, the heavier the shaft, the better he hits it, 50,60,70 grams, way too light, he just got a steel shaft (110 grams)  for his 913D2, and he is giddy.

 

Unfortunately, the golf gods will take care of that giddiness.

 

The only Callaway club I have ever owned was the original Big Bertha driver with the Memphis 10 steel shaft.  Not a bad club back in the day.

[PlaidJacket]

Same here Kenny. However, I didn't have the driver. Mine was a 2-wood. Back in those days I was a terrible driver of the ball. I just couldn't get the thing airborne. Hence the 2-wood. And man I use't to wear that thing out. Still have it I believe.

[Kenny B]

My first set of clubs 24 years ago was a 2-wood, 4-wood, 5i, 7i, 9i, SW and putter.  The irons were built for me and were Ping Eye knock-offs.  Not bad clubs either; after the Big Bertha came out, I was in ABQ on a trip and stopped at the Arroyo del Oso golf course; bought he Big Bertha with the steel shaft because I could actually hit it better than my 2-wood!  I still have it somewhere.  

 

I think I may also have a driver with a titanium shaft.  There was a titanium manufacturing company located in the area that made golf shafts.  Lighter than steel, but I remember it being very stiff and difficult to get airborne with my swing speed... whatever it was at the time.

[RoverRick]

Actually, there has been another change in the bag this week. I bought a Fubuki Zeta several months ago but did not like this in the SLDR 10.5, it was simply too high.

 

I had bought this shaft because I had the original Fubuki in a Callaway FT9. I liked it a lot. I remembered I still had the Razr Fit 9.5 but didn't even have it on a shaft. So I tracked down an adaptor and installed this.

 

On the first two tees I popped it up pretty badly, but once I realized I did not have to create more any additional launch angle, It was a beast of a club.

 

I hit high draws with it and into the fairway and at distances I have not had siince last Summer.

[Grasper Parsnip]

I have been playing terribly for a while, but the last two weeks, I have gotten it together for everything except the driver. No problem. I've been hitting a 3 wood off the tee. I played 36 holes on Wednesday and used my driver 12 times and only hit 4 fairways. I still managed awesome scores, but I was concerned. My 3 wood was leaving me a lot of real estate and I had to be careful not to pop it up off the tee,

 

Well, I decided first I wanted a Mini, and then decided to see about making my own Mini driver. I took the shaft out of my R11 14* 3 wood and and stuck it in my R9 Super Deep 10.5 and turned it up to 12*. This is a pretty small looking head, although it has a very deep face. It measures about 44" overall  but it is 43" to the center of the face.

 

So Thanksgiving morniing I slipped out to the club with the this "Mini". It was windy and wet and generally nasty conditions, the greens were slow and fuzzy and I left several putts inches short. I hit driver and Mini off every tee, but had already decided I was going to play the Mini's ball.

 

7/7 on fairways hit. no big surprise. But astonishingly, the Mini was past the driver on mishits (driver mishits there were no Mini Mishits), and within a yard of the driver on good hits. I saw some balls on the range so I went and hit them, and this reenforced my finding on the course.

 

I gave up no real distance and gained more consistency with the shorter shaft and higher loft.

 

Of course this could change and I will try again when the course is drier but until then, it looks like I have a new bag arrangement.

 

 

As far as that goes....

 

 

I have had issues with my Driver it is 45" long Taylormade R7 quad HT with a stiff shaft and although I hit it well sometimes other times I can take it away too far on the inside and get a hook or a draw when I do not want one.

 

I was thinking like you about cutting it down an Inch or even an inch and a half after working on the range with it for an hour or so gripping down that distance on the grip.

 

According to the specs on the taylormade website it swings at D3 and the grip weighs 51g so for every 1/4 inch I cut off the butt end of the graphite shaft that is 1.5 swing weights. so cutting of 1 inch is lessening the driver by 6 swing weights.

 

The interesting thing that I found out was that to add the swing weight back to the driver, every 2 grams added to the head is 1 swing weight but every 4 grams taken off the grip is also 1 swing weight added back.

i will game it gripping down over 9 holes this Friday and if I decide to go through with cutting it to 44" from 45" all I need to do is put a 25g light weight grip on it  instead of the 50g grip that is on it now and the 25g I save at the butt end should put the swingweight back to D3 again.

 

Did you add any weight to the Driver head when you cut it? if not can you notice a difference in the swing weight?

 

[Grasper Parsnip]

I have had issues with my Driver it is 45" long Taylormade R7 quad HT with a stiff shaft and although I hit it well sometimes other times I can take it away too far on the inside and get a hook or a draw when I do not want one.

 

I was thinking like you about cutting it down an Inch or even an inch and a half after working on the range with it for an hour or so gripping down that distance on the grip.

 

According to the specs on the taylormade website it swings at D3 and the grip weighs 51g so for every 1/4 inch I cut off the butt end of the graphite shaft that is 1.5 swing weights. so cutting of 1 inch is lessening the driver by 6 swing weights.

 

The interesting thing that I found out was that to add the swing weight back to the driver, every 2 grams added to the head is 1 swing weight but every 4 grams taken off the grip is also 1 swing weight added back.

i will game it gripping down over 9 holes this Friday and if I decide to go through with cutting it to 44" from 45" all I need to do is put a 25g light weight grip on it  instead of the 50g grip that is on it now and the 25g I save at the butt end should put the swingweight back to D3 again.

 

Did you add any weight to the Driver head when you cut it? if not can you notice a difference in the swing weight?

[ole gray]

Interesting comments on here about cutting drivers down.   I'm 6'2" however I have long arms and swinging the longer shafted drives is not in my best interest.  Maybe a little more distance however with all my aches and pains and bad knee, my coordination is pretty much like a hippo trying to break dance.  With that said, I'm thinking about looking hard at the new Callaway Drivers that are coming out, where you can purchase one that is already set up at my preferred length which is 44.5 ....