Are players irons really only for 'players' ?

[StrokerAce]

stuck between a rock and a hard place here...

 

Love the wilson irons... v6 are too pricey, trying to get my hands on some v4 with DG Pro shaft...might have to settle for the v2  ... 

 

Also still on the prowl for the Adams CMB with the C Taper shaft.  Not sure about the 120 stiff in C Taper though... it's either love or hate.... 

 

There are so many Mizuno irons out there that I get lost in all of the MP, MX, JPX, 99, 127, 72, 140, 41, etc., etc.

 

Also recently intrigued by the Cobra Fly Z Pro and Nike Vapor Pro Combo - both get a lot of accolades.

 

Started exploring shafts - seems as though almost every iron ever made has some sort of Dynamic Gold S300 !!

I'd like to try something a little different... I have the TT XP 95 stiff in my SLI; I played the S300 when I had a set of Callaway Apex Pro.

 

Looking at 

DG Pro

KBS C Taper/ C Taper Lite / Tour

DG AMT

Project X 5.5

 

True Temper pretty much OWNs the iron shaft market !!

 

Lost out on a couple ebay auctions at the last second - got sniped on a set of CMB with 2 seconds to go and also on a lightly used set of v4's.... oh well, where there is one there will be many more to follow!  Wish I didn't have to use ebay but that's where you get the best deals.  Had a guy on WRX ready to sell his CMB set but we were 15 apart and he wasn't the original owner of the irons and wasn't sure if they were standard and they were reshafted... kinda scared me off at that point.

[Shankster]

The Fly Z Pro is what turned me into a Cobra believer. Those things are pure. They get my vote for you.

 

 

[tommc23]

The Fly Z Pro is what turned me into a Cobra believer. Those things are pure. They get my vote for you.

 

IMG_2674.PNG

They are fun to hit too

 

Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk

[StrokerAce]

They are fun to hit too

 

Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk

 

They would like great next to my Cobra F7 plus.... I'll have to take a closer look.  Thanks Alan!

[Shankster]

They would like great next to my Cobra F7 plus.... I'll have to take a closer look. Thanks Alan!

For that price range, I'd say you'd get the most bang for your buck with them.

 

Also, for the KBS Tour / S300 comparison I've played both. Get near the same results, I prefer the feel I get with KBS over the DG. DG's feel hollow to me, more of a solid feel with the KBS.

[StrokerAce]

For that price range, I'd say you'd get the most bang for your buck with them.

 

Also, for the KBS Tour / S300 comparison I've played both. Get near the same results, I prefer the feel I get with KBS over the DG. DG's feel hollow to me, more of a solid feel with the KBS.

 

Good to hear!  I've been leaning towards the KBS.  I seem to hit the ball high so I'd like to bring my ball flight down a little.

Heard that a good combo could be Fly Z+ in long irons (4/5/6) with Fly Z Pro in short (8/9/P)...

[Shankster]

Good to hear! I've been leaning towards the KBS. I seem to hit the ball high so I'd like to bring my ball flight down a little.

Heard that a good combo could be Fly Z+ in long irons (4/5/6) with Fly Z Pro in short (8/9/P)...

The fly a pro are already comboed if you get the flow set. MB 7-P CB 2-6.

 

I hit the KBS flies a mile high. Make sure you T least get fit for a shaft.

[KCLeo12]

I really like my Cobra King Pro Combos such a soft feel and really forgiving.

[Shankster]

Talk to text... no good. Sorry, that last post sounded like I was hammered.

[StrokerAce]

Just when I thought I was close the MP64/54 jump into the picture!

 

I've never owned a set of Mizuno irons... seems like a right of passage on the journey from game improvement to player.... 

[Kor.A.Door]

Just when I thought I was close the MP64/54 jump into the picture!

 

I've never owned a set of Mizuno irons... seems like a right of passage on the journey from game improvement to player....

The MP54 look very nice

[Shankster]

Greg Norman wants you to play cobra.

[Gg Owen]

Maybe I'm unique.But I've always had tremendous success no matter what irons I've used

[null]

Maybe I'm unique.But I've always had tremendous success no matter what irons I've used

 

Some people are just good ball strikers, that's for sure.

[Shankster]

Been thinking about this thread again. The blog write up about the new Mizuno driver.

 

What do mizuno players look for?

 

We are speaking to the player type, not the handicap player.

 

Will this hurt their market share?

 

What I read is that they don't like making average clubs for average players.

 

Personally I like this theory.

 

The whole MP line is blendable, the JPX line is blendable.

 

Why do brands need to make 7+ different models?

 

Been reading a lot of reviews on the MP18 line, and the difference between the Mb and the Sc are negligible.

[Charli]

So a good friend was upgrading his irons and at the time was a 5 handicap. So I got a free set of Taylor made hand me downs. Let's just say they weren't friendly but I went from 120's down to low 90s. I have upgraded to the m2's and now an 11 handicap. but I still have them just In case. To answer your question no players Irons aren't meant for players. It's just going to be a harder learning process. Mine sure was, there were times hitting those wrong I wondered how it's even possible hitting it so wrong without facing a completely different direction.

[Kor.A.Door]

Emailed the Dana Rader Golf academy in Ballentyne today about a possible iron fitting. There are so many irons on the market, I really hope to find what will work best for me, I know what I like and want, but they may not be correct for me. Going in with an open mind to see what a professional fitter can do for me.

[HardcoreLooper]

Been thinking about this thread again. The blog write up about the new Mizuno driver.

 

What do mizuno players look for?

 

We are speaking to the player type, not the handicap player.

 

Will this hurt their market share?

 

What I read is that they don't like making average clubs for average players.

 

Personally I like this theory.

 

The whole MP line is blendable, the JPX line is blendable.

 

Why do brands need to make 7+ different models?

 

Been reading a lot of reviews on the MP18 line, and the difference between the Mb and the Sc are negligible.

I play an old set of Mizuno irons (MX-200s). I'd played Hogan's for 20 years before that. So I was looking for that wonderful forged feel I got from Hogan. I don't think Mizuno resonates with weaker players as a brand for them. If they're not willing to spend the marketing dollars to get out that message, then why bother to make clubs for them? The new approach makes sense to me.

 

Sent from my SM-T550 using Tapatalk

[Shankster]

I play an old set of Mizuno irons (MX-200s). I'd played Hogan's for 20 years before that. So I was looking for that wonderful forged feel I got from Hogan. I don't think Mizuno resonates with weaker players as a brand for them. If they're not willing to spend the marketing dollars to get out that message, then why bother to make clubs for them? The new approach makes sense to me.

 

Sent from my SM-T550 using Tapatalk

So a brand identity as a “Players Club” I like it.

 

I wish more brands would find an identity.

[StrokerAce]

If you want to put a handicap on it - which, IMHO is ridiculous...there are low caps who aren't good ball strikers and high caps who are - Mizuno seems to target scratch to ~13/15... they have a few sets for the higher (20+) caps.

A couple of years ago I got a set of the dark gray/orange JPX EZ and while they were fine clubs it just didn't feel like a Mizuno (or what I thought a Mizuno should be) and I got rid of them pretty quickly.  I think that those were their super GI clubs and I'm not even sure they make them any longer.

 

I went to Joe & Leigh's yesterday to hit some irons.  I think they were 3balls before 3balls became 3balls and then GlobalGolf.  They have a bunch of used iron sets (25+).

My intention was to test out various shafts - KBS tour, KBS CTaper, DG Pro, Project X, Nippon, Modus, etc.

 

BY far my favorite iron/shaft was Mizuno MP68 with KBS Tour... I hit some other clubs that some would consider 'blades' and I don't see what the big deal is.  They weren't that difficult to hit and with little to no margin for error on the heel or toe it was fairly easy to get close to or near the middle.  I caught a couple a little low or high but other than that I didn't find it too hard.  Maybe I'm missing something.

 

On a side note - how do you define a 'blade' ?? (ed: this is rhetorical)

Is it an iron with a very small face and no offset?

Is it an iron with a thin topline?

Is it an iron with no weight distributed around the cavity?

Is it an iron where the CG isn't pushed back?

Are "blade" and "players irons" synonymous?

 

I hit a couple Mizunos, Adams CMB, Nike VR Pro, Bridgestone, Callaway, etc.  Just for fun I tried an AP1 (it had a shaft I wanted to try) and WOW... It was heavy, clunky and loud.

 

It was very close between the Mizuno and the CMB... I did like the Bridgestone too...forgot which model.  But the KBS Tour, Nippon, ProjectX and Modus shafts were all really nice.

 

I've got my hopes up for a set of Mizzy MP54's.... 

[Shankster]

I don't think you are missing anything Jason. The middle of the club is the middle of the club, regardless what type it is.

[HardcoreLooper]

I don't think you are missing anything Jason. The middle of the club is the middle of the club, regardless what type it is.

If you're hitting it out of the middle, you're literally not missing anything. Newer player's irons are better about moving the sweet spot fractionally away from the hosel and more toward the actual middle of the face. They're also providing somewhat more relief on off-center hits than they did 20 years ago, but not like a GI iron.

 

Sent from my SM-T550 using Tapatalk

[chisag]

... I am amazed at how many people think MBs are easy to hit. Or as easy as a nice players CB. They are not, and really not even close. I think the confusion for many is they equate club head designs to their ball striking skills at the range. If you can hit the center of the face with a repeatable swing day in and day out, you will not find a lot of difference between MBs and players CBs, at least at the range or on a LM. On the course it is always different and those few shots you mishit can make a pretty big difference in your scores. There is a reason so few on all the tours comparatively, play MBs. Especially Champions and elite LPGA where swings are more in line with most amateurs.

 

... On the other end of the spectrum, if you are honest with your ball striking ability when you are playing, many do not have a repeatable swing and rarely contact the club face in the same place with any regularity. For these players a GI or SGI is your friend. Consistent mishits are minimized by extreme perimeter weighting as well as more weight low producing a higher trajectory. It is a very rare player that hits the ball too high. Just go to a tour event and watch just how high Pro's hit their iron shots.Those of us that have been around this game realize your score is usually dictated by your bad shots, not your good ones. If you can hit decent bad shots, you have a good chance at keeping your score low.

 

... I will add there are also many reasons to play MBs than shooting your lowest score. Some just love the look and of course the dense and sweet feel only a solid forged head produces.

[StrokerAce]

... I am amazed at how many people think MBs are easy to hit. Or as easy as a nice players CB. They are not, and really not even close. I think the confusion for many is they equate club head designs to their ball striking skills at the range. If you can hit the center of the face with a repeatable swing day in and day out, you will not find a lot of difference between MBs and players CBs, at least at the range or on a LM. On the course it is always different and those few shots you mishit can make a pretty big difference in your scores. There is a reason so few on all the tours comparatively, play MBs. Especially Champions and elite LPGA where swings are more in line with most amateurs.

 

... On the other end of the spectrum, if you are honest with your ball striking ability when you are playing, many do not have a repeatable swing and rarely contact the club face in the same place with any regularity. For these players a GI or SGI is your friend. Instant mishits are minimized by extreme perimeter weighting as well as more weight low producing a higher trajectory. It is a very rare player that hits the ball too high. Just go to a tour event and watch just how high Pro's hit their iron shots.Those of us that have been around this game realize your score is usually dictated by your bad shots, not your good ones. If you can hit decent bad shots, you have a good chance at keeping your score low.

 

... I will add there are also many reasons to play MBs than shooting your lowest score. Some just love the look and of course the dense and sweet feel only a solid forged head produces.

 

Thanks chisag; I didn't realize you were once a club reviewer at golfwrx.  I read a review you had written a few years ago on their site.  well done!

 

I know you've recommended the Cleveland 588 TT in the past; what other players CB would you recommend folks give a try?  In regards to ball flight - is there a particular shaft or shaft manufacturer that you like which gives that optimal trajectory?

[null]

... I am amazed at how many people think MBs are easy to hit. Or as easy as a nice players CB. They are not, and really not even close. I think the confusion for many is they equate club head designs to their ball striking skills at the range. If you can hit the center of the face with a repeatable swing day in and day out, you will not find a lot of difference between MBs and players CBs, at least at the range or on a LM. On the course it is always different and those few shots you mishit can make a pretty big difference in your scores. There is a reason so few on all the tours comparatively, play MBs. Especially Champions and elite LPGA where swings are more in line with most amateurs.

 

... On the other end of the spectrum, if you are honest with your ball striking ability when you are playing, many do not have a repeatable swing and rarely contact the club face in the same place with any regularity. For these players a GI or SGI is your friend. Instant mishits are minimized by extreme perimeter weighting as well as more weight low producing a higher trajectory. It is a very rare player that hits the ball too high. Just go to a tour event and watch just how high Pro's hit their iron shots.Those of us that have been around this game realize your score is usually dictated by your bad shots, not your good ones. If you can hit decent bad shots, you have a good chance at keeping your score low.

 

... I will add there are also many reasons to play MBs than shooting your lowest score. Some just love the look and of course the dense and sweet feel only a solid forged head produces.

 

You touched on one of my biggest pet peeves about my fellow amateur golfers: They think they hit the ball too high.  I have had people comment that my ball flight is too high, yet when my 4 iron from 210 yards away lands pin high and only releases a few yards they look at me like I am some sort of warlock.

[null]

Thanks chisag; I didn't realize you were once a club reviewer at golfwrx.  I read a review you had written a few years ago on their site.  well done!

 

I know you've recommended the Cleveland 588 TT in the past; what other players CB would you recommend folks give a try?  In regards to ball flight - is there a particular shaft or shaft manufacturer that you like which gives that optimal trajectory?

 

Not chiasag, but I can definitely comment on that last part:  There is no one-size-fits-all club head or shaft that is going to provide optimal numbers for everyone.

 

For some people a DG S300 launches lower than an S400, for others the S400 launches lower than an S300.  Between shafts and heads, there are so many combinations that can truly be optimal for each individual.

 

Another thing so many amateurs overlook with irons is spin.  Yeah, launch and carry distance is great, but is that playable?  Meaning if your 8 iron is carrying 160 yards, but you are only getting 5500-6000 RPMs of spin on it, is the extra distance worth it if you can't hold a green? And you are okay with the varying distance your get if you catch a flier our of a rough?  So many things to consider when finding an "optimal" club for you.  What is optimal for you has a good chance of being sub-optimal for the next guy.

[StrokerAce]

Not chiasag, but I can definitely comment on that last part:  There is no one-size-fits-all club head or shaft that is going to provide optimal numbers for everyone.

 

For some people a DG S300 launches lower than an S400, for others the S400 launches lower than an S300.  Between shafts and heads, there are so many combinations that can truly be optimal for each individual.

 

Another thing so many amateurs overlook with irons is spin.  Yeah, launch and carry distance is great, but is that playable?  Meaning if your 8 iron is carrying 160 yards, but you are only getting 5500-6000 RPMs of spin on it, is the extra distance worth it if you can't hold a green? And you are okay with the varying distance your get if you catch a flier our of a rough?  So many things to consider when finding an "optimal" club for you.  What is optimal for you has a good chance of being sub-optimal for the next guy.

 

...fair enough; but if a guy was just buying something off the shelf what would you suggest?

[ddryan]

Like Meyer said. I approve 100%. Go for the blades. Full set, 1-PW. Put the time in and you will enjoy them. If not... you'll have a cool story anyways. Forgiveness is over rated.

 

Nothing better than the sting of a miss hit 2 iron, especially in your neck of the woods, when it gets cold, get some high compression balls when it is 40* or lower and you'll learn to find the sweet spot, or suffer the consequences.

 

Even in low 50's it can be a really really - "memorable" experience to hit that iron a bit thin.... I would recommend a sports mouthguard- otherwise your teeth will be chattering for a few strokes following that miss...

 

As Meyer said- to each his own- and at the end of the day that is what is so great about Golf.   But  I will also mention that I have seen a few who try and game a set of irons well beyond their capability - it can be both a painful and somewhat humbling experience- I am reminded of the BBC show Top Gear, when Richard Hammond, one of the presenters, and a motor head of some renowned- gets into a quarter-power Formula 1 car for a few laps- first, the vehicle is so "on the edge" that he stalls it out several times just trying to get it to the track.  The tires are not warm, so not sticky, and the brakes, similarly not hot, therefore not as effective, so in order to get the car to perform, he has to push it to the limits without having the safety of knowing that going "slow" would be a good thing- it is in fact the opposite -https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9773pisjCSw

 

Somewhat the same effect with pure blades (except you don't run headlong into a wall or a ditch...)  I have tried, on occasion, to hit my father's old Wilson Dyna-Powered irons from the 1960's - blades which make butter knives look big- and yes, the occasional pure shot is thrilling, I doubt whether I could break 100 with those clubs-  and that is not what I desire when I am on the course- Personally, I look at it as a competition between me and the course, and I want the equipment that will perform best for me, and my swing, my faults, etc, and set me up to score best against the course.

 

There are many other thoughts- Hickory shaft players - Persimmon players- who value the "old school" nature of their undertaking- and as such, go for it with a nice set of Mizzuno's or Hogan Ft Worth's (beautiful sticks) - but  personally, I would not get rid of the cavity backs quite yet- you may want to keep them in the corner of the garage for when you want to beat your buddies!

 

 

[null]

...fair enough; but if a guy was just buying something off the shelf what would you suggest?

 

Without seeing your swing speed, transition, your path, your angle of attack and your impact patterns it would be impossible to make any suggestions.  I know people here want some sort of magic number, but the real answer is to get fit.  

 

If you are looking for club heads that have a good mix of traditional looks and forgiveness as a starting point, than pretty much every manufacturer has something for you:

 

Mizuno JPX Tour

Mizuno MP 18 SC

Ping iblade

Taylormade 750

Callaway X Forged

Titleist AP2

Srixon 765

 

But they will all do different things based on your swing as well as what shaft you put in them.  In fact, the shaft you put in one of them might work for you, but that shaft in another head might not.

[chisag]

Thanks chisag; I didn't realize you were once a club reviewer at golfwrx.  I read a review you had written a few years ago on their site.  well done!

 

I know you've recommended the Cleveland 588 TT in the past; what other players CB would you recommend folks give a try?  In regards to ball flight - is there a particular shaft or shaft manufacturer that you like which gives that optimal trajectory?

 

 

... Jlukes summed it up. I think it all depends on what you are looking for in an iron. What your miss is like. What is your typical trajectory. What kind of feel do you prefer. And of course what looks good to your eye at address. The truth is, there are no bad clubs out there anymore from all the big boys and most of the little boys. Even in a players iron there are smaller heads with thinner toplines and soles that are very precise and wider soles with thicker toppings with more forgiveness. 

 

... That said, I still think the 588TT's might be the best all around players iron I have hit if forgiveness is important, and I have hit most all of them. Nice trajectory, super forgiving, easy to hit high or low and have a very nice feel. The Cobra Forged Tours are a little less forgiving with a smaller head, thinner top line and imo are the best feeling multi material irons on the market. To give you an idea of how different irons work for different people, I just did not get along with the Mizuno JPX 900 Forged and they should be perfect for me. But I loved the MP18-SC's. Go figure. I just started playing the TM P790's and so far I really like them. They seem to be a pretty good combo of the 588TT's and the Cobra Forged Tours combing the best of both. 

 

... Shafts are a little easier to figure out. If you know what kind of flight you like, most shafts are pretty consistent in their respective categories. A high launch-high spin shaft will be high launch and high spin for most all players. I wish I could give you some recommendations for irons and shafts, but everyone is different. Now if you have a 100mph swing with a smooth transition and a late release, take a medium to shallow divot, prefer a forged cb iron with a mid size to smaller head, thinner topline with a mid trajectory ... I could give you a pretty solid recommendation. ; )