Jump to content

MGS Golf Ball Test - My Own Data Analysis - SURPRISING RESULTS!!


Recommended Posts

On 12/16/2020 at 12:14 PM, greggarner said:

Yeah, I thought about this too, and that's something that's really hard (for me) to wrap my head around without a table of all individual shots. What if the balls were right-biased through off-center cores or cover defects but the draw of the robot counter-acted it? Or if the ball had a large variance of dispersion and some were wildly right and some were wildly left and the mean were "centered"? If we know that an off-center core, for example, is going to change the spin axis but our summary data only represents the average of all shots, I think it's a logical leap to say "this ball is straighter" unless we also know that all other quality metrics were accounted for. I suppose the individual ball's standard deviation accounts for this? (I'm a qualitative researcher, so anything quant is just vague memories for me...)

Another thought -- I wonder if Ionomer balls could be used as a pseudo-control? We know these are supposed to spin less, as a category, so we should be able to compare them to urethane balls? But then the issue of quality comes up and, as we saw with the Q-Star Tour, lower price point may very well mean more defects.

Something else I was thinking is that if a ball has some issue that makes it fly weird or inconsistently or whatever ... just physically, from the nature of the spherical shape, in order for that to equate into a "right bias", it would have to be teed up in a certain orientation each time.  If it had some concentricity issue or dimple issue or something leading to a horizontal flight abnormality, then that horizontal flight abnormality should work both ways depending on where that issue was located in relation to the spin axis of the ball - which would all change if the ball had a different orientation when it was struck to begin with.  

  • Like 1

Driver: Titleist TS2, Accra FX 2.0 250 M3.
3W: Taylormade Sim Max, Accra FX 2.0 200 M3.
3H: Taylormade Sim, Stock Stiff.
3/4-PW: Miura CB57, TT DG S300 Stiff.
51*, 55*: Edison Forged Wedges, KBS Tour Stiff.
60*: Titleist Vokey SM4, DG Spinner.
Putter: P&SI-EGOS  (considering L.A.B. Golf DF 2.1).
Ball: TM TP5 Pix OR Pro V1x OR Vice Pro Soft OR Cut Blue ... (See Why!)
Bag: MNML.
Cart: Old Used ClickGear something or other.

Link to post
Share on other sites
  • Replies 52
  • Created
  • Last Reply

Top Posters In This Topic

Top Posters In This Topic

Popular Posts

OK, so I redid the analysis based on Z-Scores rather than raw numbers.  The way I did this was to find the overall average for driver distance, the overall standard deviation for driver distance, and

First off as a data analyst in my day job I love this thread, right up my alley. As it relates to this I had the same idea. Not to speak for @BMart519but I think his idea is that distance STD DEV is o

I did my own data analysis for the MGS Ball Test.   (****Please see the 13th post in this thread, for a significantly improved analysis compared to the quickly thrown together analysis described below

7 hours ago, vamosjackets said:

I don't understand.  I have a Z-Score for Shot Area as well, which is part of the formula.  And, when you're dealing with Z-Scores, everything is in the same units.  The units would be "Standard Deviations above/below the Mean".  

Overall Driver Score for Ball X = Z-Distance - Z-Offline - Z-Area.  Same for 7-Iron Score.  Wedge Score replaces Distance with Backspin.  So, if Ball X (for a driver) has a mean distance that is 2 standard deviations above the mean of mean distances of all balls, and a mean offline-distance that is 2 standard deviations below the mean of mean offline-distances of all balls, and a mean shot area that is 2 standard deviations below the man of mean shot-areas of all balls, then it will have these scores (for the driver):
Z-Distance = 2 ... Z-Offline = -2 ... Z-Area = -2 ... Overall Driver Score = 2 - -2 - -2 = 6.  
(Hypothetically speaking) That would give ball X the top Driver Score, so it would be ranked #1 for Driver Score.

 

I'm thinking more about your statement about the Z-Scores being in different units for area than for distance and offline.  Am I right in thinking that the Z-Score actually puts each of these sets into the same units, because, I think, the Z-Score is actually "unitless" ... like for distance it would be meters/meters and for area it would be meters^2/meters^2 and so both would actually end up "unitless", and what it ends up telling us is "# of standard deviations above/below the mean" which would kind of be the pseudo-unit for the Z-Score.  

As far as I understand it yes z-scores are unitless as you say. In fact this is a very common technique used in data modelling to allow you to control the weights of variables that are of different sizes just as you mention. If you come up with a formula where one variables is in the 10s and another is in the 1000s without changes it will be dominated by the larger variable. 

Your first attempt works too, though squaring has its only implications on increasing the importance of that variable, increasing from 2 to 3 becomes 4 and 9 after squaring, which obviously only gets worse as you go on. I would only use this if a small change in say offline, even one or two yards say, is a big deal.

Since you seem to want to keep the variables of the same importance; distance, offline, and area. I'd that is the case the z-scores are the parfect way to go.

  • Like 1

:callaway-small: Epic Max LS Review

:cobra-small: SZ Extreme 9° HZRDUS Smoke Green 60g 6.5 | :taylormade-small: '07 Burner 15° Reax 50 Stiff 

:titelist-small: 816 H1 18° Fujikura Speeder HB 8.8 Stiff | :titelist-small: 816 H1 21° Mitsubishi Diamana S+ Blue 70 Stiff

:ping-small:  I500 5 - UW Red Dot Dynamic Gold S300 | :Hogan: Equalizer 52° / 56° KBS Tour V 110 Stiff

:cleveland-small:  SOFT 11S Super Stroke Mid-Slim 2.0 | :ping-small: Hoofer Bag | :bridgestone-small: Tour BX | Right Handed

:SuperSpeed: Follow My Super Speed Progress Here 

Link to post
Share on other sites

I have redone the data analysis with the "Slow" swing speed data.  Here are the results:
Driver Rankings: V1X, BX, vice pro, BXS, V1, BRX, cutblue, avx, TP5, ONCore Elxr, mxfli tr x, vice pro soft, Mxfli tr, chrsftx, TP5X, cutgrey, BRXS, mtbx, Z*15, vice pro plus, ERC Soft, Z*, chrsft, Inesis 900, mtbb

7-Iron Rankings: chrsft, BRXS, ERC Soft, vice pro, avx, V1, vice pro soft, cutblue, V1X, Inesis 900 (Tie), chrsftx (Tie), ONCore Elxr, BRX, TP5 (Tie), BX (Tie), Z*15, mtbx, vice pro plus, cutgrey, Mxfli tr, TP5X, mtbb, BXS, Z*, mxfli tr x

Wedge Rankings: TP5, BX, Mxfli tr, chrsft, vice pro plus, vice pro soft, mxfli tr x, cutgrey (Tie), mtbb (Tie), V1, BXS, cutblue, Inesis 900, V1X, mtbx, TP5X, vice pro, ONCore Elxr, chrsftx, Z*, BRXS, BRX, avx, Z*15, ERC Soft

Overall AVG Ranking (Driver & 7I Only - Wedge Data Not Included)

1. vice pro
2. V1X
3. V1
4. avx
5. cutblue
6. BX
7. (Tie) BRX OR vice pro soft OR BRXS
10. ONCore Elxr
11. TP5
12. (Tie) chrsftx OR ERC Soft OR chrsft
15. BXS
16. Mxfli tr
17. Inesis 900
18. (Tie) cutgrey OR mtbx OR Z*15
21. (Tie) mxfli tr x OR TP5X
23. vice pro plus
24. Z*
25. mtbb

 

Overall AVG Ranking (Driver, 7I, & Wedge):

1. BX
2. V1
3. (Tie) vice pro OR V1X OR TP5
6. vice pro soft
7. cutblue
8. chrsft
9. (Tie) avx OR Mxfli tr
11. BXS
12. (Tie) BRXS OR ONCore Elxr
14. BRX
15. (Tie) chrsftx OR cutgrey OR mxfli tr x OR vice pro plus
19. Inesis 900
20. ERC Soft
21. mtbx
22. TP5X
23. mtbb
24. Z*15
25. Z*

 

Notes:

1. I included more balls in this one because it wasn't as obvious to me which balls would not be in contention to be one of the better balls.  

2. Again, very interesting and unexpected results.  The balls that are supposedly made for slower swings did not perform as well as balls that are supposedly made for faster swings.  eg The BX did much better than the B RX or B RXS.  

3. Vice and Titleist doing very well in this category. 

4. Vice Pro would be the clear winner if Wedge data are discounted, ranking in the top 4 in both the Driver and 7I categories.  

5. V1 did very well, ranking in the top 10 in all 3 categories.  V1X is number 1 on the driver, number 9 on the 7I, but down to 14 on the Wedge.

6. B X did great in Driver and Wedge (ranking 2nd in both), but not great in 7-Iron (ranking 14th).

7. Cut Blue, again made a strong showing ranking 7, 8, and 12 in D, 7, and W respectively - good for either 5th or 7th overall depending on Wedge inclusion. 

8. AVX did much better here, ranking 8 and 5 on D and 7, but falling all the way to 23 on Wedge.

9. If Wedges matter a lot, TP5 is still one to consider here, ranking 1st in Wedge, 9 and 14 in D and 7 respectively. 

10. Chrome Soft is also one to consider.  It did horrible for Driver (23rd), but excellently in 7I and Wedge - 1 and 4 respectively.

11. If you prefer a softer ball, Vice Pro Soft, AVX, and Chrome Soft are worth considering.   

12. If budget is a consideration, Vice Pro, Vice Pro Soft, and Cut Blue are the best options.  Vice Pro may be the best option regardless of budget. 

13. Interesting how bad Srixon and Snell balls did in this category.  

 

Here is a link to my excel file to look at the data and calculations: Golf Ball Selection Data - Slow Swing Speed.xlsx

Driver: Titleist TS2, Accra FX 2.0 250 M3.
3W: Taylormade Sim Max, Accra FX 2.0 200 M3.
3H: Taylormade Sim, Stock Stiff.
3/4-PW: Miura CB57, TT DG S300 Stiff.
51*, 55*: Edison Forged Wedges, KBS Tour Stiff.
60*: Titleist Vokey SM4, DG Spinner.
Putter: P&SI-EGOS  (considering L.A.B. Golf DF 2.1).
Ball: TM TP5 Pix OR Pro V1x OR Vice Pro Soft OR Cut Blue ... (See Why!)
Bag: MNML.
Cart: Old Used ClickGear something or other.

Link to post
Share on other sites

Wow.  Great stuff.  

I've been playing the Cut Blue because, well, I'm a cheap bastard.  😃

  • Haha 1

:ping-small:   Driver: G410 Plus

:cobra-small:  Fairway Wood:  F8 3 Wood

:callaway-small: Hybrid:  Rogue 3 Hybrid

:callaway-small: Hybrid: Rogue X 5 Hybrid

:callaway-small: Irons:  Rogue 6-PW

:Sub70: Irons:  699 Pros 5-PW

:Sub70: Utility Iron: 699-U 2 Iron

:cleveland-small: Wedges: RTX-4 48/52/56/60 °

:cleveland-small: Putter: Huntington Beach No. 1

:bettinardi-small: Putter: BB8-Wide (2020)

:cameron-small: Putter:  Special Select Newport 2 (2020)

:callaway-small:  Bag: Rogue Staff Bag

:Sub70:  Bag:  Sub70 Staff Bag

:Clicgear:  clicgear 3.5 cart

:Arccos: Caddie System

 

 

Link to post
Share on other sites
19 hours ago, JDGAFFLIN said:

Wow.  Great stuff.  

I've been playing the Cut Blue because, well, I'm a cheap bastard.  😃

I can relate! 

Driver: Titleist TS2, Accra FX 2.0 250 M3.
3W: Taylormade Sim Max, Accra FX 2.0 200 M3.
3H: Taylormade Sim, Stock Stiff.
3/4-PW: Miura CB57, TT DG S300 Stiff.
51*, 55*: Edison Forged Wedges, KBS Tour Stiff.
60*: Titleist Vokey SM4, DG Spinner.
Putter: P&SI-EGOS  (considering L.A.B. Golf DF 2.1).
Ball: TM TP5 Pix OR Pro V1x OR Vice Pro Soft OR Cut Blue ... (See Why!)
Bag: MNML.
Cart: Old Used ClickGear something or other.

Link to post
Share on other sites

Great info and interesting results.  I've not played Vice Pro and think I'll give them a try.  Found this video on their website and thought others might like it.

 

  • Like 1

:ping-small: G410 Plus, 9 Degree Driver | Official 2019 MGS Tester

:ping-small: G400 SFT, 16 Degree 3w

:ping-small: G400 SFT, 19 Degree 5w

:ping-small: G410 Irons 4-UW 

:ping-small: Glide 2.0 56 Degree SW   (removed from double secret probation 😍)

:ping-small: B61 Putter

 

 

Link to post
Share on other sites
On 12/28/2020 at 10:37 AM, fixyurdivot said:

Great info and interesting results.  I've not played Vice Pro and think I'll give them a try.  Found this video on their website and thought others might like it.

 

I think that's a good choice.  Vice Pro and Vice Pro Soft both seem very impressive.  

Very interesting video too.  I noticed they showed almost nothing about how the cover is formed, applied, and "dimpled".  Maybe that's a process they'd like to keep a little more under wraps.  It would make for a great episode of "How It's Made". 

Driver: Titleist TS2, Accra FX 2.0 250 M3.
3W: Taylormade Sim Max, Accra FX 2.0 200 M3.
3H: Taylormade Sim, Stock Stiff.
3/4-PW: Miura CB57, TT DG S300 Stiff.
51*, 55*: Edison Forged Wedges, KBS Tour Stiff.
60*: Titleist Vokey SM4, DG Spinner.
Putter: P&SI-EGOS  (considering L.A.B. Golf DF 2.1).
Ball: TM TP5 Pix OR Pro V1x OR Vice Pro Soft OR Cut Blue ... (See Why!)
Bag: MNML.
Cart: Old Used ClickGear something or other.

Link to post
Share on other sites
34 minutes ago, vamosjackets said:

I think that's a good choice.  Vice Pro and Vice Pro Soft both seem very impressive.  

Very interesting video too.  I noticed they showed almost nothing about how the cover is formed, applied, and "dimpled".  Maybe that's a process they'd like to keep a little more under wraps.  It would make for a great episode of "How It's Made". 

Season 5, episode 7 of How Its Made is about the process of making two piece golf balls. 

  • Like 3

:ping-small: Driver, G400 11* SR Flex

:taylormade-small: 3 Wood, SLDR  HL 17*  R Flex

:taylormade-small: 5 Wood, SLDR 19* R Flex

:cobra-small: 7 Wood, F6 22.5* R Flex

:Sub70: Irons, 699 Pro's S Flex (5 - AW)

:Sub70:  JB Wedge 56*

:cleveland-small: Wedge, CBX 60*

:odyssey-small: Putter, Marksman Fang 35"

Link to post
Share on other sites
  • 2 weeks later...

TP5 and TP5 x rankings seem very legit based on my own useage.....AVX at the bottom? for me, ive shot some of my best rounds with AVX and am very impressed on the distance/feel aspect as well as being a very good performer from 50 yards and in.....that was a shock to me that the AVX was so good....its my new go to ball

I try other brands...keep coming back to Titleist....why??

Link to post
Share on other sites
On 1/7/2021 at 12:14 PM, Tsecor said:

TP5 and TP5 x rankings seem very legit based on my own useage.....AVX at the bottom? for me, ive shot some of my best rounds with AVX and am very impressed on the distance/feel aspect as well as being a very good performer from 50 yards and in.....that was a shock to me that the AVX was so good....its my new go to ball

Would you categorize more in the high swing speed, low swing speed, or middle?  The AVX performed well in the low swing speed analysis ranking 8 on Driver and 5 on 7-Iron.  It didn't fair very well on the wedge, ranking 23, but the wedge analysis is really the most suspect in general, imo.  

Driver: Titleist TS2, Accra FX 2.0 250 M3.
3W: Taylormade Sim Max, Accra FX 2.0 200 M3.
3H: Taylormade Sim, Stock Stiff.
3/4-PW: Miura CB57, TT DG S300 Stiff.
51*, 55*: Edison Forged Wedges, KBS Tour Stiff.
60*: Titleist Vokey SM4, DG Spinner.
Putter: P&SI-EGOS  (considering L.A.B. Golf DF 2.1).
Ball: TM TP5 Pix OR Pro V1x OR Vice Pro Soft OR Cut Blue ... (See Why!)
Bag: MNML.
Cart: Old Used ClickGear something or other.

Link to post
Share on other sites

They just released the left dash results. How does that rate?

Taylormade M5 Driver

Cobra F9 3 Wood

Srixon ZX5 4-6 Iron

Srixon ZX7 7-PW

Taylormade MG2 Wedges 50/55/60

Taylormade Spider X Putter

Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, vamosjackets said:

Would you categorize more in the high swing speed, low swing speed, or middle?  The AVX performed well in the low swing speed analysis ranking 8 on Driver and 5 on 7-Iron.  It didn't fair very well on the wedge, ranking 23, but the wedge analysis is really the most suspect in general, imo.  

My own personal experience is as follow

I lost 5mph on my swing from a year ago and that translated to an obvious distance loss, mainly on the driver. I needed to find a ball that helped, so i tried the BXS, AVX, TPS's, Prov1 and an old Nike 🙂

The TP5 and AVX were the best off the tee for me, consistently....i actually hit the longest drive of the year with the TP5, but my mid irons were better with the AVX.....the BXS didnt work for me (im not Tiger lol) and the TP5 when not hit dead center of the driver flew all over the course...for me, the spin was horriffic.......and i am not on any monitor...this is on course testing....  the AVX was shockingly good for me and although I think the Pro v was better around the green, the AVX was not much different.....plus its a soft, but firm feel which i like.....from 50 yards in, i can generate enough spin to hold the greens.....i think the prov1 may be the best all around ball when you add putting but its close

  • Like 1

I try other brands...keep coming back to Titleist....why??

Link to post
Share on other sites
  • 2 weeks later...

Are Mizuno RB Tour and Tour X included?  They were in the MGS article, but don’t see them in your rankings.

Driver:  :cobra-small: F9 with EvenFlow Riptide

3H: :cobra-small: F9 with Atmos Black

4H: :callaway-small: Epic Flash with Tensei AV White

Utility :cobra-small: F8 One 19 deg with Rogue Silver

5-GW :mizuno-small: JPX900 Forged with KBS $-Taper

56/60 :ping-small: Glide 2.0 SS

Putter:  :ping-small: Pal - Karsten TR

Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

×
×
  • Create New...